Discussion Was the timeskip necessary?

[Sachsenhesse]

Seeing how in the lastest chapters Luffy just turboevolves, it kinda felt weird to me, that we wasted 2 years of his life learning basic haki.

Dont get me wrong. For the worldbuilding it was nice, but 2 years? Wouldnt one be enough to get our guys to where they are now abilitywise?

 

[hokageji]

i think Luffy had a bigger target behind his back than the rest of the supernovas specially after the paramount war. He's a pirate, has CoC and a D, a combo of all the things WG hates.

So surely, he needed it. But also, the rest of the crew did too. Nami, Usopp, Franky, Chopper, were all pretty weak. Robin was strong, but surely has grown stronger since then. And lets not talk about Zoro and Sanji...

 

[M3J]

Yes it was as if he planned to go ahead without training, he'd have likely gotten owned in Fishman Island itself. He couldn't have trained as well as he did because he wouldn't have knowledge of haki or be constantly challenged on the sea. Same with the others, as hokageji mentioned; they needed to go to different areas to get stronger, like Zoro training under Mihawk and Franky upgrading himself in Vegapunk's lab.

Had they come across a Pacifista again, they'd have lost, most likely, unless Rayleigh helped.

 

[Ellenate]

Haki is poorly defined and acts like magic. You can't really make a case for him NOT needing 2 years without making a bunch of assumptions on how haki works.

---

Storywise-

Everything that happened could've been accomplished in a few months.

Thematically-

It's strange for the SH's to be apart for 2 years, when they've only been together for a few months (brook knowing them for only a few days before the kuma split)

---

Oda has a strange sense of time.

 

[kkck]

The strawhats have spent an unnerving amount of time separated. First at sambaody, then a reunion over two years later, then separating against for WCI... I am not a fan of that.

I think one of the issues here is that oda sort of didn't pick a lane in regards as to how to develop haki in an organic way. So what we had was a timeskip which didn't exactly give us context on the issue and then increasingly greater and random haki based powerups. I would have preferred luffy to develop haki through several arcs tbh. But oda bulldozed through that with the timeskip. There is also the matter of the non monster trio strawhats not developing haki over it. I could understand not all of them having it but at an absolute bare minimum brook, chopper and ussop just aren't competitive in the new world without haki. In their current state, this many arcs into the new world, they just don't cut it. Luffy is duking it out with yonko and basically only zoro and jinbe are pulling their weight. Everyone else is just weak against yonko executives or officers. Sanji, franky and brook should be going toe to toe with the perospero, oven or daifuku types and yet they barely do anything.

That said, I would say the strawhats did need the timeskip. They just had too big a target on them. A rookie crew with that big a target on their back just won't make it in the NW. Realistically speaking at the time smoker would have basically defeated the entire crew on his own simply because the strawhats lacked the means to touch him. Even a mediocre VA would have defeated the entire crew with ease.

And to make things worst... the first two arcs after the timeskip, fishman island and dressrosa, have the strawhats fighting weak shits like hodi and caesar. Why not give the strawhats real enemies in those arcs? Franky could have probably low dif hodi and anyone in the monster trio would easily defeat caesar in any scenario where they aren't being incompetent jackasses. It's just amazing to me that oda would have two consecutive arcs where the strawhats fought no one of any note. And then the strawhats finally get enemies in dressrosa... and those are handled by non strawhats. Of course, robin, nami, chopper and ussop defeating anyone in doflamingo's crew is patently absurd even today but that's kinda the problem.

 

[Fox666]

IMHO the time-skip was completely unnecessary.

The time-skip happened so the main characters could get stronger. But their new power was not necessary, since the villains are as strong as the story required.

If the time-skip didn't happened, Luffy would have defeated Hody Jones and other villains the exact same way, since we did not have a reference of their strength before.

The only time it was necessary was against the two Pacifistas in Shabondy, but they only appeared in one chapter and were never seen again. If you cut that, there's zero need for the power-ups.

In anything, the massive jump in strength during the time-skip only create plot-holes. It's hard to believe Luffy was the center of attention on Marineford, when there were so many enemies 100 times stronger than him. Why were the Pacifistas such a big deal, if Whitebeard has a few commanders who could defeated all of them with little effort?

Everything is about Haki now, and Luffy could have learned it in a few days instead. It would make more sense than Luffy training for 2 years, but only knowing the basics and mastering important techniques out of nowhere.

Without the time-skip, the story would only require a few minor changes. Instead of hearing about how Law, Akainu and Blackbeard got their new positions as something of the past, it would happen concurrently with the story. But that would totally sucks, right??

 

[thedude]

If timeskip didn't happen, of course Luffy et all would have grown during their battles instead of off screen. Luffy would have mastered haki fighting Hodi Jones, etc.

But the timeskip was also about showing the characters internal growth. Their willingness to follow Luffy's plans and get stronger on their own instead of together, and then their willingness to actually reform instead of living a different life. It was also so they could build relationships with other important characters, Rayleigh, Mihawk, etc.

 

[catagon87]

I honestly feel like Oda just wanted to restyle the characters and that's why he came up with the need for the time-skip.
He could have written them mastering Haki organically without any special training if he'd wanted.

 

[thedude]

Another point on "was it necessary" is...was it good storytelling? I think I'd say yes for sure there. Instead of having, say, Zoro, rushing back to Luffy, he bowed his head to the man he wanted to best, and humbly asked for training. They each made choices that strengthened their characters resolve to the mission they were going to undertake more seriously - finding One Piece.

 

[I Am Atomic]

What I don't really like about the story is that the crew hasn't spend time together as much as they should have. We as reader's feel like it's a long ride, but how long has they known each other?

Brook knew Luffy for a week before getting separated. Franky close to that as well.

The others knew him for couple of months.

The time they stayed away from each other is longer than the time they stayed together. For any bond to grow, you need to spend time together.

Unless this is some kind long distance relationship thing

 

[Fox666]

What I don't really like about the story is that the crew hasn't spend time together as much as they should have. We as reader's feel like it's a long ride, but how long has they known each other?

Brook knew Luffy for a week before getting separated. Franky close to that as well.

The others knew him for couple of months.

The time they stayed away from each other is longer than the time they stayed together. For any bond to grow, you need to spend time together.

Unless this is some kind long distance relationship thing

Yeah, chronologically the crew barely spend any time together.

Oddly, the longest time they were together was the time between Thriller Bark and Shabondy.

This is also a problem I had with Naruto. The protagonist made it his life goal to bring Sasuke back, but they didn't really spend much time together.

 

[goldb]

My issue with the timeskip feeling unecessary is solely because we haven't seen what I'd consider an "adequate payoff" of the crewmembers' (bar Luffy and maybe Zoro) 2 year training. Not in terms of fighting prowess anyway; as the professionals in the crew have improved in the knowledge of their respective fields (Chopper, Sanji, Nami, Franky, etc..).

Other than that, I like what @Barrier wrote about the time they spent together; something I always forget.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

What I don't really like about the story is that the crew hasn't spend time together as much as they should have. We as reader's feel like it's a long ride, but how long has they known each other?

Brook knew Luffy for a week before getting separated. Franky close to that as well.

The others knew him for couple of months.

The time they stayed away from each other is longer than the time they stayed together. For any bond to grow, you need to spend time together.

Unless this is some kind long distance relationship thing

To be honest, while they've spent little time together.

Experiences can be just as effective as time.

2 people have a near-death experience and they will bond because they have something in common. They share an experience that only both they understand and went through together.

An experience could lead to trusting someone more than the person you've known for 5 years. That short experience might have shown x-person truly cares for you or how much they're willing to sacrifice and I think that's what the Strawhats have, they have shared experiences that has strengthened their bond.

Although, I do agree, spending more time together would have been better either way.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 28, 2021 ---

In a sense, the time-skip was necessary.

Ace started sailing 3 years before Luffy. Kid, Law, Bege and were apparently pirates at the same time as Ace meaning they had a 3 year headstart. Luffy before the skip had only been at sea for around a year I guess. In that context, perhaps it was worth it.

I think partly why the skip feels redundant now is some of the characters haven't made much progress seemingly. Sanji's literally a scrub now and is nothing like who he was pre-skip. Nami and Usopp are still cowards and still can't stand on their own. It's hard to see the purpose of the skip besides the benefit it had to Luffy and Zoro.

 

[McNuss]

No it was not necessary. Barely anything is necessary in this story, even though or maybe especially because it has been planned from the start.

 

[Ellenate]

Yeah, chronologically the crew barely spend any time together.

Oddly, the longest time they were together was the time between Thriller Bark and Shabondy.

This is also a problem I had with Naruto. The protagonist made it his life goal to bring Sasuke back, but they didn't really spend much time together.

to be fair, there were flashbacks that alleviated it, but yeah- their relationship should've been better established early on. also despite how central to the story he is. sasuke is mostly treated like a prop piece for naruto's development; everything he did just seemed so phony.

An experience could lead to trusting someone more than the person you've known for 5 years. That short experience might have shown x-person truly cares for you or how much they're willing to sacrifice and I think that's what the Strawhats have, they have shared experiences that has strengthened their bond.

I think a good way of describing most of Oda's timeskip writing is "Yeah but...".

 

[King Moe]

The strawhats have spent an unnerving amount of time separated. First at sambaody, then a reunion over two years later, then separating against for WCI... I am not a fan of that.

I think one of the issues here is that oda sort of didn't pick a lane in regards as to how to develop haki in an organic way. So what we had was a timeskip which didn't exactly give us context on the issue and then increasingly greater and random haki based powerups. I would have preferred luffy to develop haki through several arcs tbh. But oda bulldozed through that with the timeskip. There is also the matter of the non monster trio strawhats not developing haki over it. I could understand not all of them having it but at an absolute bare minimum brook, chopper and ussop just aren't competitive in the new world without haki. In their current state, this many arcs into the new world, they just don't cut it. Luffy is duking it out with yonko and basically only zoro and jinbe are pulling their weight. Everyone else is just weak against yonko executives or officers. Sanji, franky and brook should be going toe to toe with the perospero, oven or daifuku types and yet they barely do anything.

That said, I would say the strawhats did need the timeskip. They just had too big a target on them. A rookie crew with that big a target on their back just won't make it in the NW. Realistically speaking at the time smoker would have basically defeated the entire crew on his own simply because the strawhats lacked the means to touch him. Even a mediocre VA would have defeated the entire crew with ease.

And to make things worst... the first two arcs after the timeskip, fishman island and dressrosa, have the strawhats fighting weak shits like hodi and caesar. Why not give the strawhats real enemies in those arcs? Franky could have probably low dif hodi and anyone in the monster trio would easily defeat caesar in any scenario where they aren't being incompetent jackasses. It's just amazing to me that oda would have two consecutive arcs where the strawhats fought no one of any note. And then the strawhats finally get enemies in dressrosa... and those are handled by non strawhats. Of course, robin, nami, chopper and ussop defeating anyone in doflamingo's crew is patently absurd even today but that's kinda the problem.

What you mean on that? Sanji is going be facing YC while Jimbei is facing T6H? How is that showing Jimbei when he still fighting one while Sanji already defeated one this arc. I think your misunderstanding dynamic around especially wouldn't say Zoro this arc been on his weight given he is more hype tool than actually beating his enemies. Only one we can say is. Kamazou, but he tied with him. The rest kinda make enemy are stronger than him in comparison. Plus you got have patience with fights as they are coming, but wouldn't say no one gotten stronger from timeskip as they are showing, but you can't expect facing Yonko Crew to be a easy one and certain enemies won't be easy to beat too.

 

[Luke Beifong]

In the beginning I was loving the Time Skip, but nowadays I really think it’s unnecessary. For the World Building it’s really good, but for the characters it’s just pointless.

This thing of “you can learn the basics but only truly develops the abilities when you’re fighting” is a pain in the ass. Really, all Rayleigh needs to do is explain the concept os Haki to all of them and throw them in the New World for them to fight and develop all the Haki techniques they need to know.

In my opinion, if you went to a 2 years of training, you need to come back much better than you’re back then. And the only SH that come back much better is Franky(studying VagaPunk’s blueprints), Brook(doing shows) and Chopper(mastering his transformations). And for what? For nothing.

 

[kkck]

What you mean on that? Sanji is going be facing YC while Jimbei is facing T6H? How is that showing Jimbei when he still fighting one while Sanji already defeated one this arc. I think your misunderstanding dynamic around especially wouldn't say Zoro this arc been on his weight given he is more hype tool than actually beating his enemies. Only one we can say is. Kamazou, but he tied with him. The rest kinda make enemy are stronger than him in comparison. Plus you got have patience with fights as they are coming, but wouldn't say no one gotten stronger from timeskip as they are showing, but you can't expect facing Yonko Crew to be a easy one and certain enemies won't be easy to beat too.

There is no indication whatsoever that sanji will be fighting a calamity. He is nowhere near them and not even heading in their direction. Add to that, sanji's confrontation with king (where he got unequivocally foderized) pretty much suggests a calamity at full power is well outside his paygrade. Still, the important thing is that in spite here is that in spite of the timeskip sanji has been getting consistently wrecked and defeated. The timeskip's payoff has been sanji not winning fights. So that's the issue with patience here, it hasn't paid off for ten years. What was the timeskip's point if the only thing we have seen from sanji is him not winning against vergo, getting owned by doflamingo, not winning against a collosal jackass like page one and then get utterly foderized by king?

 

[King Moe]

There is no indication whatsoever that sanji will be fighting a calamity. He is nowhere near them and not even heading in their direction. Add to that, sanji's confrontation with king (where he got unequivocally foderized) pretty much suggests a calamity at full power is well outside his paygrade. Still, the important thing is that in spite here is that in spite of the timeskip sanji has been getting consistently wrecked and defeated. The timeskip's payoff has been sanji not winning fights. So that's the issue with patience here, it hasn't paid off for ten years. What was the timeskip's point if the only thing we have seen from sanji is him not winning against vergo, getting owned by doflamingo, not winning against a collosal jackass like page one and then get utterly foderized by king?

Sanji send Vergo flying even nerfed, he beaten PO, and tank and block King's attacks. I give you Doffy, but no one was going to beat him except Luffy. Law couldn't beat him and Zoro couldn't cut his Birdcage. Though rest your on headcannon thinking Sanji didn't do anything to them.

You need patience and your picking and choosing on performance when it wasn't like that. Sanji is fighting King or Queen. It shows given he facing someone stronger and it hints to them to fight either. Idk why you think that when we haven't seen his full power.

Everyone getting stronger just like rest of Strawhats so facing T6H themselves. Thinking Sanji won't reach new stage of power and face YC is headcannon. His performance is that he hasn't shown full power yet and have full fight yet. Doesn't mean anything what you said especially enemy side many are taken except for YCs of King and Queen. You got acknowledge that just like you didn't rest of Strawhats won't face T6H, but they are facing them.

 

[kkck]

Sanji send Vergo flying even nerfed, he beaten PO, and tank and block King's attacks. I give you Doffy, but no one was going to beat him except Luffy. Law couldn't beat him and Zoro couldn't cut his Birdcage. Though rest your on headcannon thinking Sanji didn't do anything to them.

You need patience and your picking and choosing on performance when it wasn't like that. Sanji is fighting King or Queen. It shows given he facing someone stronger and it hints to them to fight either. Idk why you think that when we haven't seen his full power.

Everyone getting stronger just like rest of Strawhats so facing T6H themselves. Thinking Sanji won't reach new stage of power and face YC is headcannon. His performance is that he hasn't shown full power yet and have full fight yet. Doesn't mean anything what you said especially enemy side many are taken except for YCs of King and Queen. You got acknowledge that just like you didn't rest of Strawhats won't face T6H, but they are facing them.

Sanji didn't win against vergo. His leg got broken in a kicking contest... The fight was definitely not going in sanji's favor at least. He absolutely didn't beat PO. That's not a thing that happened. And sanji didn't tank anything, the suit did everything. Without the suit sanji is just a kebab. And sure, doflamingo was just about the second strongest person at dressrosa (A distant second to fujitora probably) but law did a lot more than sanji against doflamingo. As in, sanji got unilaterally foderized without putting up two seconds of a fight and was about to get straight up anhilated by an attack from doflamningo. Lack could actually last several moments against doflamingo on his own. It's a gigantic difference.

We've seen sanji's full power. It's subpar. At best we haven't seen the suit's full functionality. I suppose it wouldn't be that strange if the suit has an app that makes sanji relevant.

There is zero indication sanji is fighting king or queen. The story as of right now is definitely not heading in that direction. Sanji is literally running in a direction where king and queen specifically are not at...