Discussion Yamato’s Gender

[M3J]

Is Yamato really a part of the LGBT+ community though?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think copping people who haven’t landed on Yamato identity as ? As transphobia is unfair
Yamato is a pretty unique circumstance
It’s not about bringing up kiku
There’s a difference between being a woman at heart vs I believe myself to be a legendary figure who died years ago and I super admire and I decided to be that person , you can’t become someone else , especially someone you didn’t know , no matter how much you want it

rhe good analogy is literally if a real life born with female organs person says she identifies as Superman ( let’s just say Superman is real ) or maybe Obama
People aren’t iffy on Yamato’s gender identity because trans people aren’t valid , because at the core of the oden identity you can’t actually identity as oden , Everyone agrees that’s ridiculous so why are is it causing sparks that hey maybe Yamato identifying as a man via believing their oden might not last cause there’s a high chance the oden identity is discarded when kaido is defeated , their not oden , their Yamato and that’s a valid identity in itself and the exploration of that is interesting
It depends on

Yamato being a man is an extension so far of the desire to be oden , which again isn’t possible
I want to see where they stand after they defeat kaido cause again Yamato is their own person and that has to be adddessed
I think people have made this more of an ideological battle than it is

now are there transphobes and maybe ignorant yes

 

[Fox666]

@fallou
@Hannibal Psyche

Yamato side boob. will always be a side boob.. as long as i remember Okamas doesnt have boobs except for iva when he totally change to a womans body...

 

[Pirate Queen]

This should end the debate, but it won't.

 

[hokageji]

I think there is a bit of discrepancy cos the manga itself declares him as "Kaido's daughter" even though it refers to him as a "he".
Referring to the sideboob and calling Yamato as a she is just ignorance .
To me, the pronoun of choice as to be a he because the official calls him so. That's as crystal clear as you can get....

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't really get these complicated topics about gender in this era. Especially for a fictional character.

I call Yamato a she and will keep doing that.

 

[hokageji]

I don't really get these complicated topics about gender in this era. Especially for a fictional character.

I call Yamato a she and will keep doing that.

this thread is turning out to be a he said, she said thing now...

Sure, its a fictional character so we should just move on without making a deal of out this...

 

[Diivil]

I don't really get these complicated topics about gender in this era. Especially for a fictional character.

I call Yamato a she and will keep doing that.

Most people are just hypocritical Social Justice keyboard Warriors.

Making a massive fuss about the respectful way of addressing that person by the proper gender/pronouns, but they they go and call them Yamato anyways, ignoring the new identity that the person also identifies as.

It would be like bitching at people to refer to Kaitlyn Jenner by the proper pronoun "she", but then you go and call her Bruce Jenner.

"Ohhh not on my watch, don't worry, I will get offended for you"

 

[Erinyes]

I call her "she" because of the obvious references. her character is based on Versailles no Bara's main character, Oscar François de Jarjailles who is a female and doesnt deny it, and noone denies it, but was named after a man's name bc of families duties, her father wanted a son, and had only girls and decided to raise her as a boy to become the queen's guard. But shes a girl (and is refered as such) and had a romance etc..
Yamato's is just impersonating Oden ( under specific circunstances) she is playing a role, and in other circumstances, she called herself Yamato. I dont think theres any political thing behind all this, and anyone is free to interpret her case as they want, but please, dont try to put words into people's mouth, they never said, i dont think anyone has been rude or transphobic.
If people wants to call Yamato "he" that's great, but then why they keep calling Ivankov and co "he" ? As for pronoun in translations, that's just the translator choice/interpretation, being official translation doesnt make it gospel truth, translators have their own margin of interpretation, the official choice is a valid one, there's nothing wrong about it, but calling her "she" is not wrong either. And I might be wrong but I don't recall Oda calling her "him" other in parts where she plays Oden role, nor him giving any indication on how she should be refered to. But he sure talks about her boobs, Im almost sure if he wanted people to refer to her as a male, he would likely, have chosen another design, and would have probably avoided all those "boobs" moments/jokes.

 

[Fallou]

I call her "she" because of the obvious references. her character is based on Versailles no Bara's main character, Oscar François de Jarjailles who is a female and doesnt deny it, and noone denies it, but was named after a man's name bc of families duties, her father wanted a son, and had only girls and decided to raise her as a boy to become the queen's guard. But shes a girl (and is refered as such) and had a romance etc..
Yamato's is just impersonating Oden ( under specific circunstances) she is playing a role, and in other circumstances, she called herself Yamato. I dont think theres any political thing behind all this, and anyone is free to interpret her case as they want, but please, dont try to put words into people's mouth, they never said, i dont think anyone has been rude or transphobic.
If people wants to call Yamato "he" that's great, but then why they keep calling Ivankov and co "he" ? As for pronoun in translations, that's just the translator choice/interpretation, being official translation doesnt make it gospel truth, translators have their own margin of interpretation, the official choice is a valid one, there's nothing wrong about it, but calling her "she" is not wrong either. And I might be wrong but I don't recall Oda calling her "him" other in parts where she plays Oden role, nor him giving any indication on how she should be refered to. But he sure talks about her boobs, Im almost sure if he wanted people to refer to her as a male, he would likely, have chosen another design, and would have probably avoided all those "boobs" moments/jokes.

Hmm, fair enough, and thank you for the Rose of Versailles ref which I didn't have.
About people being rude or transphobic, I'd like to agree, but there has been quite a lot of sneering since this whole Yamato thing.
For instance, people who chose to refer to Y as he got called SJW and so on, when the debate about Ys gender is legitimate.
So not sure who bought in the politics first.

And regardless, it's 2021, gender is a political question, whether we want it to be or not.
Besides, the manga/anime community as a whole isn't the most wholesome towards lgbtq+ people.

And yeah, it's pride month and I get annoyed easily.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I call her "she" because of the obvious references. her character is based on Versailles no Bara's main character, Oscar François de Jarjailles who is a female and doesnt deny it, and noone denies it, but was named after a man's name bc of families duties, her father wanted a son, and had only girls and decided to raise her as a boy to become the queen's guard. But shes a girl (and is refered as such) and had a romance etc..
Yamato's is just impersonating Oden ( under specific circunstances) she is playing a role, and in other circumstances, she called herself Yamato. I dont think theres any political thing behind all this, and anyone is free to interpret her case as they want, but please, dont try to put words into people's mouth, they never said, i dont think anyone has been rude or transphobic.
If people wants to call Yamato "he" that's great, but then why they keep calling Ivankov and co "he" ? As for pronoun in translations, that's just the translator choice/interpretation, being official translation doesnt make it gospel truth, translators have their own margin of interpretation, the official choice is a valid one, there's nothing wrong about it, but calling her "she" is not wrong either. And I might be wrong but I don't recall Oda calling her "him" other in parts where she plays Oden role, nor him giving any indication on how she should be refered to. But he sure talks about her boobs, Im almost sure if he wanted people to refer to her as a male, he would likely, have chosen another design, and would have probably avoided all those "boobs" moments/jokes.

Exactly this.

Glad you elucidated on her reference to Oscar François de Jarjailles, first I've heard of her or her. We have panels where Ace's crew refers to her as Kaido's daughter simply because they don't know how she identifies as.

Spoiler

They called her daughter implying she's a she. Ace's crew aren't trying to offend her, or is Oda going to be called out as being transphobic or against gender identity? I don't think so, there's nothing going on here. We shouldn't make issues where there are none.

My entire point earlier was most people are just looking at the character - boobs, effeminate features and just call her she. I don't think this has anything to do with transphobia or anything.

If Yamato wants to identify as a he, all power to Yamato, don't think or see anyone is actually trying to be offensive which is what matters. I just dislike the fact that painting people calling Yamato her casually (and without intention to offend) are being criticised as if they have some sort of agenda.

I think especially given that these are fictional characters who can't actually make requests and likeliness people just scheme read and forget 99% of what they will read and just summarise what's read, it shouldn't be a big deal regarding pronouns or even details, there's no political agenda or disrespect.

A fictional character, no big deal especially given there's no such politics involved with the story or the character; a real person is a completely different thing and I don't believe anyone is infringing on the rights or wishes of one to ask to be respected personally. No one in this forum is identifying as anything and no one is saying otherwise as that would be bullying and bigotry, just casually referring to a character with the main goal of discussing things with gender completely out of mind.

 

[M3J]

It just seems easier to refer to Yamato as they/them, especially when they're identifying as Oden, not necessarily a man.

 

[XXGenesis]

It just seems easier to refer to Yamato as they/them, especially when they're identifying as Oden, not necessarily a man.

Oda should specify that. But he’s not of western culture.

I personally lean towards her cosplaying as Oden. Haven’t read or know why she’s referred to as Kaido’s son. Until further education I’m stick to what I know.

 

[Fox666]

They called her daughter implying she's a she. Ace's crew aren't trying to offend her, or is Oda going to be called out as being transphobic or against gender identity? I don't think so, there's nothing going on here. We shouldn't make issues where there are none.

Well then allow me to introduce you to modern politics

 

[Erinyes]

I personally lean towards her cosplaying as Oden.

That ! She's role playing Oden, that's how i see it. Oda mentioned having read Versailles no Bara but he mentionned too, Glass no Kamen which is about a talented actress, who is good at acting in character. Both shojo served for Yamato character's inspiration, for sure.


His com on Wsj #28 (2019)

 

[SupremeMod]

Her sex is clearly female given her body and references.

Personally, I think she considers herself a woman, but just has a really big clit-on for Oden. Totally different from Ivankov.

But whatever, to each their own interpretation.

 

[Fox666]

Her sex is clearly female given her body and references.

Personally, I think she considers herself a woman, but just has a really big clit-on for Oden. Totally different from Ivankov.

But whatever, to each their own interpretation.

Imagine a woman having such a crush on a man that she turns herself into a man

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Her sex is clearly female given her body and references.

Personally, I think she considers herself a woman, but just has a really big clit-on for Oden. Totally different from Ivankov.

But whatever, to each their own interpretation.

Thanks for the term, clit-on i love it.

 

[Australopithecus]

Yamato is biologically a girl. Personality wise, she views the line between the two genders as a blur especially when her father has groomed her from birth to think of herself as his "son". the reason she claims to be Oden is to carry on Oden's will. You know how the idea of inherited will is a recurrent theme in the manga. If oden were a woman, she would do the same. Oden is not about the gender of a person. It is about what that person symbolizes in terms of ideology and such.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2021 ---

I wouldn't think too much about this. Think of her however you want. To me she is a girl.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

Imma just leave this here.
(Source Arthur Library Ohara)