Discussion Yamato’s Gender

TitaniumOxide

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What could Iva have done? If Yamato wants to be Oden, then she'd want to be or stay as a man, not be a woman.
Agreed. My post was actually more of a joke. Yamato can be Oden and the same can be said for every character...in the world! I mean just look at halloween. When I was 8 I was literally scorpion from Mortal Combat because I wanted to be the dude so bad even for just a day lol... in this sense I think we can all relate. There is no doubt in my mind that Yamato was biologically a female but just want to be a man and so she changed her name to Yamato and then changed her name again to Kozuki Oden. This of course preemptively point to a young Yamato who shunned her original gender to begin with, before she ever saw Oden's execution and only after did she decide to be Oden.

The reasons why this is very feasible with or without Ivankov's help is due to the fact that in Oda's portrayal of Wano, we already have 2 of the scabbards portraying themselves as the opposite gender from a young age (which kids in real life are actually also doing). So, why not Yamato too?
 

Moegara

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Agreed. My post was actually more of a joke. Yamato can be Oden and the same can be said for every character...in the world! I mean just look at halloween. When I was 8 I was literally scorpion from Mortal Combat because I wanted to be the dude so bad even for just a day lol... in this sense I think we can all relate. There is no doubt in my mind that Yamato was biologically a female but just want to be a man and so she changed her name to Yamato and then changed her name again to Kozuki Oden. This of course preemptively point to a young Yamato who shunned her original gender to begin with, before she ever saw Oden's execution and only after did she decide to be Oden.

The reasons why this is very feasible with or without Ivankov's help is due to the fact that in Oda's portrayal of Wano, we already have 2 of the scabbards portraying themselves as the opposite gender from a young age (which kids in real life are actually also doing). So, why not Yamato too?
Come on. We can relate to the will of being someone else, someone we admired, but we've all done costumes or cosplays during our lifetimes and none of us "literally" became a fiction character. It was fun, but it was play pretend.
If Yamato was some sort of "transgender name", the character box introducing her as "Yamato, daughter of Kaido" would be wrong, because going with your theory if "Yamato" was acknowledged in the character box as her name, it would have been accompanied by "son", but it wasn't.

It was literally her own words in a line of dialogue that "she's a man because Oden was a man". There's nothing to indicate otherwise and we have her own words supporting this.

Even if Yamato isn't normally used for females in Japan, I don't think Zoro is supposed to be a name for males in Japan either. Nor is Luffy. Nor is Kin'emon. Oda just names characters how he sees fit.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Actually, I'd say Yamato's name being mostly for males in Japan has already served its purpose: The reveal of her actually being a woman.
 

M3J

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Agreed. My post was actually more of a joke. Yamato can be Oden and the same can be said for every character...in the world! I mean just look at halloween. When I was 8 I was literally scorpion from Mortal Combat because I wanted to be the dude so bad even for just a day lol... in this sense I think we can all relate. There is no doubt in my mind that Yamato was biologically a female but just want to be a man and so she changed her name to Yamato and then changed her name again to Kozuki Oden. This of course preemptively point to a young Yamato who shunned her original gender to begin with, before she ever saw Oden's execution and only after did she decide to be Oden.

The reasons why this is very feasible with or without Ivankov's help is due to the fact that in Oda's portrayal of Wano, we already have 2 of the scabbards portraying themselves as the opposite gender from a young age (which kids in real life are actually also doing). So, why not Yamato too?
And my post was a legit wonder because I'm still confused, haha. Still trying to think of an explanation, and for all we know IVa could have encouraged Yamato to stay as she is.

I guess we're overthinking it this early though.
 

catagon87

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And my post was a legit wonder because I'm still confused, haha. Still trying to think of an explanation, and for all we know IVa could have encouraged Yamato to stay as she is.

I guess we're overthinking it this early though.
I feel like Oda doesn't do a whole lot without reason. Not that he's some kind of God or something, but even with Bon Clay, initially he was introduced and the response was "Oh cool, a homosexual character. That adds an interesting element to the show." Then you realize that he has an idol in Emporio Ivankov, Queen of Kamabaka Queendom. Iva happens to be in Impel down, and the connection between Bon Clay, Luffy and Iva cause Luffy to be healed from Magellan's poison attacks, as well as aid him throughout Marineford, and go further to ensure Sanji gets the training he needs.

Point being, there's probably some yet unseen reason for Yamato's gender ambiguity/confusion.

I really hope Yamato is serious about hitching a ride on Luffy's ship. I'd love to see a strong female fighter. Like, a Charlotte Smoothie, on Luffy's crew. Robin is "strong", but strong in her craft and ability. She couldn't do much 1 on 1 vs any fighter worth their salt.
 

Moegara

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I feel like Oda doesn't do a whole lot without reason. Not that he's some kind of God or something, but even with Bon Clay, initially he was introduced and the response was "Oh cool, a homosexual character. That adds an interesting element to the show." Then you realize that he has an idol in Emporio Ivankov, Queen of Kamabaka Queendom. Iva happens to be in Impel down, and the connection between Bon Clay, Luffy and Iva cause Luffy to be healed from Magellan's poison attacks, as well as aid him throughout Marineford, and go further to ensure Sanji gets the training he needs.
Oda is a genius but I don't think he had thought of Ivankov's or Impel Down's existence when Mr.2 first appeared.
That was not planning on his part, it was building upon the elements of the past his manga already had.
Many things in One Piece are just for shock or fun.
 

Monox D. I-Fly

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I really hope Yamato is serious about hitching a ride on Luffy's ship. I'd love to see a strong female fighter.
Imagine Sanji trying to flirt with Yamato only to be told by her "But I'm a man".
 

slavkovski

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Imagine Sanji trying to flirt with Yamato only to be told by her "But I'm a man".
Well.. it will be more beneficial for sanji then.. he could invite yamato to man's bath & tell yamato to sun bathing without using cloth on like a man...
 

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Starting this so there's a place this conversation to go that doesn't pollute general chapter chat. Frankly after months, I'm very tired of this conversation but I have a knee jerk reaction to engage whenever I see Yamato called a "she". I'll edit this post as I see fit, but it's my day off and I might take a while.

At least I squeaked out a good thread name in the meantime.
 

Moegara

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Well, just seeing that both options on the title are the same, I can see this won't be a place for debate but rather for preaching.
 

kkck

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I am going to maintain what I have said earlier: Yamato, as presented so far, is not an LGBTQ character. Yamato is just an idiot and a lunatic. Her deal has nothing to do with gender identity, her deal is entirely about her identity. She simply wants to be oden because as a child she thought the guy was cool. Nothing about her, yet, has anything whatsoever to do with her gender identity not matching her biological sex. The sad, and perhaps outright pathetic, part about this is that the series has kiku, an actual transgender character whose deal actually concerns her gender identity not matching her biological sex and yet it's yamato who gets all the attention. People are dumb.
 

M3J

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I find it annoying and stupid that members are complaining about this discussion when they'll have no issue arguing the same bs in circles over and over.

In any case, using he/him for Yamato makes sense, but also he doesn't really identify with a man, does he? He just identifies as Oden, and what will happen if he stops doing that?
 

catagon87

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I find it annoying and stupid that members are complaining about this discussion when they'll have no issue arguing the same bs in circles over and over.

In any case, using he/him for Yamato makes sense, but also he doesn't really identify with a man, does he? He just identifies as Oden, and what will happen if he stops doing that?
Based on how Yamato identifies, it'd be appropriate to say you are mis-naming him by calling him anything other than Oden.

I think the answer to your question is in your post. Yamato doesn't identify as a man, Yamato identifies as Oden. The latest bit about "Momonosuke being his son" pretty much hits this one home. If Oden had been female, Yamato would be referring to himself as she/her. If Oden had been gender-fluid, Yamato would be gender-fluid.
 

hokageji

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Starting this so there's a place this conversation to go that doesn't pollute general chapter chat. Frankly after months, I'm very tired of this conversation but I have a knee jerk reaction to engage whenever I see Yamato called a "she". I'll edit this post as I see fit, but it's my day off and I might take a while.

At least I squeaked out a good thread name in the meantime.
Can we start a fresh discussion about this? I have the problem of calling him with both genders... First of all, i see nothing but Nami in him, with the exception of horns so instinctively type her. Even in this case, i backspaced and changed to him. But here is what i am confused about, and looking to get educated, perhaps which will help me address this beyond the current character...

Also, honestly speaking i have limited knowledge about this so if my posts seem offensive, please consider i am willing to get educated and the reference comes from lack of knowledge.

Yamato wants to be Oden, so his inspirations to be Oden is what is driving him to be a man cos Oden is a man. But does that even extend to the pronoun? What does Yamato use to refer himself as in Japanese? Cos as far as i recollect, its been son, but does he refer himself too in a particular pronoun that calls himself as a male?
I am not sure about Japanese, but in most indian languages, there is a difference in referring to yourself in man and woman... like mine is "mera" for men and "meri" for woman, like my name is...

In in terms of his sexual orientation, if he's attracted to Ace, what would you call that? Straight or not?
 

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How do I delete my account?
 

Pirate Queen

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Her gender identity is playing out as more of a personality disorder. I can see you feel strongly bout this, but I fear your missing the point of her character.

She's not trying to be a man, she's trying to be Oden. Whether he(Oden) is man, woman, trans, cis, or other doesn't seem to matter to her(Yamato).

I feel there is going to be a point where she chooses to be herself and then what? It would be proof that she was just having a personality identity crisis.

What I don't think is Oda attempting to introduce a trans person into this manga and make it a focal point.

Just my stance. And if this somehow triggers anyone know I am a lesbian who struggles with the same issues a transperson may have to deal with. The excuses are everywhere, but arguing Yamato is truly a man is truly valid. Oda did a poor job of explaining her character. And in today's "woke" culture... that breeds furstration.
 
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hokageji

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Her gender identity is playing out as more of a personality disorder. I can see you feel strongly bout this, but I fear your missing the point of her character.

She's not trying to be a man, she's trying to be Oden. Whether he(Oden) is man, woman, trans, cis, or other doesn't seem to matter to her(Yamato).

I feel there is going to be a point where she chooses to be herself and then what? It would be proof that she was just having a personality identity crisis.

What I don't think is Oda attempting to introduce a trans person into this manga and make it a focal point.

Just my stance. And if this somehow triggers anyone know I am a lesbian who struggles with the same issues a transperson may have to deal with. The excuses are everywhere, but arguing Yamato is truly a man is truly valid. Oda did a poor job of explaining her character. And in today's "woke" culture... that breeds furstration.
who are you referring to when you say you're missing the point?

I think what you've said is logical, and its also important to consider that this comes from Japan and how they refer to cultures and sex is different than the west... its always been. So Oda may be trying to just portray an extreme Oda fanboy.... To me, the most annoying part of Yamato is the similarity to Nami, he's done very little to make him look different.
 

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What yamato is doing is little more than identity theft. endulging yamato's attempt to be oden is insane. She can't be some dead dude just because she wants to. She is so insane she straight up says momonosuke is her son... Yamato is just weird and insane and creepy. Don't get me wrong, I sort of like the character but everything about her is just... bonkers.
 

jaymizzo

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As you said, Yamato is a hardcore cosplayer. He wants to be seen as a man, but he probably couldn't care less about his sex or appearance, other than acting like Oden.
In a nutshell.

Let Yamato take issue with someone calling him something else. Its a non issue based on a fictional character who has horns. Him/Her works... no one in OP cares.

This is why I love animated shows and comedy in the west, most of the long running shows give a middle finger to this kind of projection.

As President Garrison from South Park once said - You were on board with all the shit going on but when it comes to this one thing, its all hell? (paraphrasing)
 

eefrit

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Discussing whether or not Yamato is a trans character or an Oden impersonator is fine. I don't agree with the latter, but the discussion can be had as long as it's decent.

Transphobia, however, will not be tolerated.
 

Pirate Queen

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My brother actually said it best. If Oden never existed, she wouldn't have anyone to model herself after and would have most likely been herself.


Trans people actually believe they are a different gender from their birth gender. They don't just one day decide to model themselves after someone and say they are trans.

Her decision to be a man has been presented that its based solely on Oden being a man.
 
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