Games Mafia Game 93 - BnHA: The Burning Building - End Game

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Sorry, this took a while >_< Wanted to extensive player reviews, but now that the next game has started, I figured I'd keep it short after all

Thank you again for participating, everyone! Those who spent time playing, those who won, those who hosted and even the spectators; all of you together made this a fun experience! The death pad at times vitriolic, at other times, just toxic (as it should be). I'll go over some stuff here, cover the broad strokes.


👨‍🚒 👩‍🚒 Mechanics and Balance 🦸‍♂️ 🦸‍♀️

Compared to what you guys got, my earliest proposals for this mechanic were actually much more demanding of the players. For better or worse, Noona's input balanced the game out by taking away a considerable amount of decision-making. Personally, I'm a spice man, but over the course of hosting a couple of games now with her, I think I've grown to not just respect but incorporate some of her game-design ideas/preferences into my own. A few more games and I'll be Brazilian Corruption'd so much, I can apply for a passport.

At the base of it all was Noona's inverse janitor idea, whereby only death could reveal your role. Though presumably harder on newer players, across the board, it decidedly did influence the player approach towards the game. Maybe the most noticeable effect was that the players were deprived of just enough information to focus on the actual behaviour of others. Sure, some of the mafo made spicy claims, but maybe the lack of information across the board did more to help the noobies than not knowing hampered them.

The Burning Building stuff I think I produced a week or week and a half before the game started. We spent like 3 years trying to figure this out, our styles and personalities clashing constantly. 'We' here also includes Poopler and Marms who had their own ideas and inputs. The building idea I thought would have incorporated most ideas. The voting-for-your-role bit became the central part of the design, with us hoping that nearly everybody would know their role by the time D4ish would come around.

Initially, our ideas on how to arrange the First and Second floors differed. I personally wanted different effects for both floors, with only one floor being the Reveal floor (but revealing 5 instead of 3). Noona developed an interesting line of thought here, involving player choice and the idea that the floor capacities should be what Players aim to manage, rather than just the individual choice of what powers to use. This was enforced by the floor only working if a precise amount of people entered. Comparatively, this meant that some amount of people would probably always get their role revealed, which would keep the game moving smoothly.

The Roof Floor revealing Mafia created an interesting situation early around D2ish when the second McDo was revealed. What's painful is that it turned out that was the second Doc hiding amongst you 💀 Btw, in hindsight, I think it would have been better to personally reveal to the mafia member in question that their role got revealed that it was them who was revealed (i.e. let the McDo know they're the McDo once the top floor revealed as such).

The Prosecutor Floor, depending on how actions played out, could have been hidoi. While ofc it was clear that at some point a bunch of Prosecutors could be walking around town, it was scary to consider how many shots could be fired in one day. Personally, 1.) I figured the range of shots would have been around 4 and that 2.) people wouldn't go around cajoling the prosecutors (as they might be mafia killed otherwise). Perhaps it was for the best to force people (Shobu) to shoot but overall, given how valuable the power is, though I can't really imagine town revenge-lynching a reluctant Prosecutor. I mean I ain't y'all but I'd be scared of losing sth important. Though I'm not sure about the minutiae, Tatsu who was in the room with Eri then proceeded to kill her :lmao

Oh yeah, the Ground Floor, where y'all started, initially was supposed to randomly poison one of the leavers 💀 In the end, we settled on Hot Potato being more Player-friendly. My idea was that people who failed to enter another floor would just end up here again, but RNG'ing you onto another floor was deemed, again, more Player-friendly (which is true). So, as far as the mechanic goes, all I can say is I'm happy we managed to figure out sth that was acceptable to all four of us lol ç__ç

As for balance, there were a few hiccups here and there. While some players got shafted accidentally (Pomcha), intentionally (Sakura), stupidly (Sam) and some others didn't use their role altogether (Lamb, Van), a central complaint we've received has to do with the amount of mafo in the game. Personally, I think the mafo should have had it quite rough, and simply played out the end-game well (though they had a couple of advantages going into this game-state).

The most important dynamic here that, admittedly I personally at least, didn't fully consider, was that the number of player-kills per night (if all of them go through i.e. are unblocked etc.) will only go down once the full team has been slain. That's to say, in the Red case, for instance, only once Desu died, would there be one night-kill less. Sure, losing (wo)man-power sucks, especially if the role attached to the name was strong, and it sets you back half-a-phase in meeting your wincon, but notably, the killing power of mafo doesn't go down. Because of this, even with the Red implosion and lack of mislynching by town, so long purple avoided stacking their kills with Red (through prediction or just prestidigitation), they'd able to piggyback on their killing powers. It is not like we didn't attempt to balance this; with the abundance of prosecutor powers and another party out to kill them without having Doc immediately available, they were at risk. It's just that so long town consistently culls one team, and neither mafo focuses on killing their counterpart, ironically, the remaining team 'absorbs' the momentum.

Some other balance concerns or mishaps will be touched on in the following section. Lots of it has been discussed in pads on disc. If there's something else that I didn't cover here and wasn't discussed on disc, ofc feel free to point it out here on the thread and we can discuss it​

🚒 🚑 Players 🔥💀

16. sakura_aneki as Shoto | Mafia Boss | Lynched D1
It is unfortunate you died quite early and set off a cascade. Uh, I don't think you did yourself a lot of favours by locking so early, but, in the same vein, it's not entirely fair to hold you being killed by your own fam against you. Sure, anyone could have killed you bc of this move, but it shouldn't have been your own guy. I suppose 'lesson learnt' for next time; can't trust anyone in this game 🗡


1. GrySun as Lemillion | Mafia Detective | Killed N1
One of our resident favourites, unfortunately, was slain in single combat. The only non-town to be slain by another at night, in fact. A little saddening, though not entirely unexpected. Since your killer signed up for next game, surely you'll have a chance at revenge this time around 💀


15. Holt as Ingenium | Detective, Traitor | Lynched D2
Insane Det with (Naive) Traitor is (one of) my 'preferred' builds; it gives the player two things to figure out by using the same mechanic. They have some room for diagnosing their situation through their own volition. Given your unfortunate early death, however, this little mini-game never came to fruition. It is a little saddening you died a sacrificial lamb; technically you were the only mislynch in-game


24. Evil3ye as Shinso | Doctor, Super Mason | Killed N2
Though it has been mentioned many a time that Eripan couldn't target easy, since the Super Mason secondaries weren't hidden, Eripan had a couple of targets to pick from (should they declare, which they did). So while purely number-wise she was in a tough spot, eligible targets could somewhat vouch for themselves. Funnily enough, she actually picked a 'hidden' Super Mason (Jinx), who lied to everyone (including Eri) so that she could play the part of a cleansed townie. I think you were next on the recruit list, Evil, or pretty high up there at least. Hopefully, you get to play a bit longer next time


11. Shad as Deku | Mafia Doctor | Lynched D3
A few... miscalculations... Here and there... You did redeem yourself though, and almost all actions you took were considerably spicy. I liked the rogue PGO claim, though maybe it was a little too early to make that sort of claim. Nonetheless, fun to see, though I imagine it less delightful to be on the receiving end of your dagger lol


6. JamesRye as Cellophane | Apprentice, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D3
You even said 'Ah I hope I ain't the Apprentice' :lmao I never quite got why you chose to shoot Erichi btw :0


9. Lady Pompom as Creati | Psychiatrist, Hot Potato | Exploded D3
Sorry you exploded a phase too early, Pomcha ç___ç Your main role was supposed to detect secondaries, verify such claims, maybe pressure the traitor who was still unsure of their position. In an earlier iteration, there were also Lovers that you could find, but we determined that could create a pad overload for two very unfortunate players. In the end, you were kept in so that you could snuff out the eventual Traitor, or draw attention to players hiding their secondary like Jinx. Sorta ironic the secondary-spotting power... was killed by a passable secondary


2. Erinyes as Pinky | Mason Recruiter, Prosecutor | Killed N3
You got done dirty Eripan, and you died an ironic death; after surviving the Prosecutor shot, you got killed as soon as you got your own hands on it. It beats suiciding on the role, though. At least you recruited someone? ç__ç


18. Asako Gryffindor as Froppy | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D4
Thank you for subbing in Gryff! Your predecessor lowkey fucked up your position but thanks to Shad's heroics and your way with words you managed to pull through and live to shitpost another day. Hopefully next time you join you start out less compromised 🙏


17. Shobu_Yoruichi as Chargebolt | Mafia Detective, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D4
I think you should have been slightly more patient XD You got peer-pressured into shooting, and I respect you doing so, but you should have been more patient anyway. I didn't think a Mafia would risk it. And if I had, personally, I might have Shadded one of my own. Ofc, it was also more or less your first game, and you were in a tough position (unlike your other noobie counterparts, you were mafia). Oh, also, I like how you took the Bankai part of the explanation seriously and actually publically went Bankai xD It's unfortunate that last-hour rule was invoked on you, that slightly hurt your credentials probably, but props for the flair. Spice good


7. Lambu as Red Riot | Detective, Sickly | Killed N4
Some raised the Sickly v unknown role point, and personally, I disagree with the notion that Sickly made the primary role unusable. Especially on the first night, when Sickly'ing someone was not much better than RNG D1 vote, I myself at least would have used my role to see if there was feedback. I can see the cost-benefit part that comes from choosing between using Det and Sickly, but you didn't know your primary at all until you died ç__ç Ofc I can understand your position, but I didn't think a player would opt into not trying their main role at all. Sth for us/me to consider next time.


4. Crescent Jinx as Nejirechan | Spy, Super Mason | Killed N4
Interesting ploy, hiding your Spy status from everyone. A notably powerful strategy and quite believable at that. Eventually, you became a target for your information retention skills LOL, another kind of information gathering I suppose. V dangerous


3. SirSamuel016 as Vantablack | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D5
If I could have made a top 5 worst roles to claim in your position, I think Troublemaker might just be on there. It bought you another day, but at what cost? LOL Other than that, I liked your presence in the Floor pads. It was kinda funny how at some point (I think N3 or 4 or sth) you entered the room, all 'heyo what's up' and 12 people all at once started attacking you. I'd say 'poor guy' but you bullied me a lot so...


14. Juviii as Uravity | Jesus | Killed N5
Juvling has noticeably improved; compared to earlier games where you passively trolled town by pulling a Shinoona on us and going poof. I'd (we'd) say you're much more involved now. Furthermore, it's not naive aggression but pretty accurate remarks and to-the-point arguments. Sure, you were confirmed, but your gameplay itself might have warranted a kill at this point in the game anyway


5. Demonspeed Vandred as Tsukuyomi | Hider | Killed N5
Thank you Vindred for subbing in for Demon! You were quite important in that you were a sub for a townie, not a mafo (which usually is the case). Hopefully, precedent now has been set that any kind of player can be subbed in, not just mafia lol. Did you have any developed thoughts on how to handle subbing in better (things that make it easier or faired for the sub in to fit in)? Curious if you do. Unfortunate situation with you missing the timing to PM your action ç__ç Game might have looked a bit different had you submitted, but who can tell how much tbh. As usual, solid and balanced play. Had the game gone on a little longer you could have even deployed a Vanplan or two.


10. desin24 as Shemage | Mafia Escort | Lynched D6
The final Red to die. You did quite good tbh, surviving or as long as you did. Especially your fighting spirit shone through 🔥 I feel like you roll prosti more often than Taku or sth at this point lol


19. Avietar as Battlefist | Mortician | Killed N6
Ahh, we had a few miscomms in our PM concerning role usage, but overall, I'm happy you were as active as you were! You had a slightly harder role to figure out the purpose of (which... you might have had on N3 iirc if not for the miscommunication >_<). Overall, I liked how you did your best and stayed in the pads till quite late in your timezone xD Good stuff


21. digitaldude as Invisible Girl | Bodyguard | Lynched D7
Ahh I felt very bad receiving your PM's DD. At multiple points, I think not just me, but the other hosts as well would have wanted to PM you, assuring you your actions went through and that we didn't forget or whatever. It just was your role that didn't give you any feedback ç__ç Towards the end the more experienced players managed to capitalize on the attrition damage the chibis took and paint you as suspicious.


8. SonOfDaws as Earphone Jack | Mafia Boss | WINNER
Very involved in the mafia pads, scheming it out. I liked your play by the end, fucking up floor pad. I suppose any mafo could have done it, but I think that act greatly contributed to the momentum-seeking chibis losing their footing. Had they had a pad to discuss and consolidate, they might have turned against you guys in a fury. Pretty good job on staying separated from the others till the end; I'd have to go back and check but I don't think many players had an end-game in mind that linked you to Lawl or Tatsu.


12. Maryxxi as Suneater | Prostitute | LOSER
Similarly to Avi, I liked your activity a lot! Even when you were asking questions, they were well-thought-out inquiries that clearly indicated some level of research and understanding of the game. Like the other chibi's, you were mostly hampered by lack of experience and not having role list info at the ready (both of which can be helped in few games). Your targeting was decent (as well as equal parts tragic when you got blocked by the mafo prosti). I hope you stick around for more games later 🙏


13. Tatsumaki as Real Steel | Mafia Doctor | WINNER
Was the part about you having to go to the station for wi-fi real? That's some real MVP-level dedication LOL Tbh you were pretty invisible (as a mafo) for the vast majority of the game and even towards the end you weren't really suspected. You fit in naturally and were excluded from most end-game mafo rosters. Good stuff


20. Equaling Heaven as PhantomThief | Bulletproof | LOSER
I think on thread the most inquisitive townie! Aggressive forward play, asking questions and producing theories. play like a noob (though then again you didn't last game either). In a few more games I think you'll have a much better understanding of the possibilities available. GG 🙏


22. Zirconium as Dynamight | Banshee, Super Mason | LOSER
Like Mary, I liked the questions you asked. Really didn't come across as a first-time player of sorts. I hope you keep playing and try your luck at solving the murder mystery next time ç__ç


23. Tsar Blyatinum as Lizardy | Mafia Escort | WINNER
Hyung-nim simply can't be mafia :blush I think hyung did a good job staying under the radar and keeping it together throughout the game. I feel like usually you'd have attracted more attention, but similar to the Titan game, even as a mafo you sat it out. Your targeting was quite good too. In terms of grit, Tatsu probs did 'best', but in terms of performance, you're up there!
​

🚒 🚑 Spices 🔥💀










POW!
​
 
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Juviii

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I think what we should aim for is to fill out the roof and prosecutor floor for sure before they break down. The leftovers really just gonna drop down to 1 and 2, and hopefully at least one barkeeper chat will be filled enough to create a pad and get extra info from that.
I agree. But we might want to confirm with the hosts @Farfalla if prosecutor works the same way for mafia this game. I'm inclined to go for prosecutor floor, you all know I love some blood. But regardless of our preferences it might be a good idea to decide who goes for which beforehand.
 

Maryxxi

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Well, you'll know when you get a potatoe, as Secondaries don't seem to be hidden.
This is probably a dumb question, but how does having a potatoe reveal ur role? hot potato is a secondary role, so it still won't reveal the main role, till u die ofc then ur role will be revealed.
 

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I agree. But we might want to confirm with the hosts @Farfalla if prosecutor works the same way for mafia this game. I'm inclined to go for prosecutor floor, you all know I love some blood. But regardless of our preferences it might be a good idea to decide who goes for which beforehand.
Probably the same way, even if it's the opposite, if they use it and kill a townie we know it's a mafia the one holding it
 

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This is probably a dumb question, but how does having a potatoe reveal ur role? hot potato is a secondary role, so it still won't reveal the main role, till u die ofc then ur role will be revealed.
It does not reveal the main role, and we actually don't know if the roles are revealed when you die either. (Host-chan has this been communicated?)

What I meant is, having a secondary role myself, which is not ???, I assume the Potato will also be saying the role itself and won't be an other ??? secondary role.
 

Shad

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This is probably a dumb question, but how does having a potatoe reveal ur role? hot potato is a secondary role, so it still won't reveal the main role, till u die ofc then ur role will be revealed.
They are no dumb questions only bad MC Donalds.

He is saying that you will know if you get the potato because potato is a secondary role (like super mason), he didn't say that your primary role will be also revealed.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

It does not reveal the main role, and we actually don't know if the roles are revealed when you die either. (Host-chan has this been communicated?)

What I meant is, having a secondary role myself, which is not ???, I assume the Potato will also be saying the role itself and won't be an other ??? secondary role.
Host confirmed dying reveal role as normal.
 

Maryxxi

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They are no dumb questions only bad MC Donalds.

He is saying that you will know if you get the potato because potato is a secondary role (like super mason), he didn't say that your primary role will be also revealed.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Host confirmed dying reveal role as normal.
aaah okay got it xD
 

Juviii

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Probably the same way, even if it's the opposite, if they use it and kill a townie we know it's a mafia the one holding it
Nah, if they die if they kill mafia instead they just gonna go "oopsie, I really thought they were mafia."
 

Holt

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Holt is in the game btw xD
Holt is short for Hot Potato.
Oh my God! Holt stay away from me :))))
I thought you enjoyed my potato last time.

So, this is kinda awkward to play. Usually, I play related to the role, either baiting or fake baiting night kills, or reverse psychology it, or laying low strategically. Like this, I don't know what's best and it irks me. Maybe others feel the same.
I thought you liked or wanted to try vanilla since MH MGs gameplays? were too role-specific.


Anyway, here and caught up. Great Avis and somewhat interesting (?) mech. It at least produced a different D1 than the "active/passive" hint spam. Naturally filing the roof and top floor just to force the mafia onto the first two would be nice since that gives mafia reveal power (plus a group of sure mafia) as well as put prosecutor power in our hands. It's all well and good for those who said they want to go there but those floors are equally important for the mafia as well. All the talk might have just highlighted that for them even more. Can't even put much thought into people saying which floor they want to go to (especially the top 2) because it works either way. If anything, I find the lower floor goers more interesting (though they could be faking)

For Evil/Zirc SM reveal, I don't even know why we needed that information this early tbh. Most will end trying out their actions on them. Gives even less chance of figuring things out and can even potentially screw things up with spy/prostitute etc causing even more confusion since no one knows what they're doing.

Heaven is the new Gry(?).

So many returning players in this game too :zomg (returning might be a stretch since some were away for just 1-2 games but well :toc )
 

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It does not reveal the main role, and we actually don't know if the roles are revealed when you die either. (Host-chan has this been communicated?)

What I meant is, having a secondary role myself, which is not ???, I assume the Potato will also be saying the role itself and won't be an other ??? secondary role.
okay, tho a host actually confirmed that the roles are revealed when we die
 

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Also, why are people getting interested about the pads? Did I miss something? It mainly seems like a private voting session and less like a discussion pad. I don't particularly see what's interesting in it 🤔
 

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I agree. But we might want to confirm with the hosts @Farfalla if prosecutor works the same way for mafia this game. I'm inclined to go for prosecutor floor, you all know I love some blood. But regardless of our preferences it might be a good idea to decide who goes for which beforehand.
It's added to the player as an extra (secondary) role and works accordingly to normal rules, no difference.
 

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It's added to the player as an extra (secondary) role and works accordingly to normal rules, no difference.
So if mafia get it they have 2 choice:

- kill a mafia brother with it and get some Street creed with town.
- not use it and get lynched.

Unless they are multiple mafia groups in that case a scum would be able to persecute another mafia member 🤔

Checking the interaction thread, persecutor works on lovers, this could be how this is balanced.

Lover is a real possibility, my wound is aching must... Kill... Lambu...

@votekill lambu
 

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I thought you liked or wanted to try vanilla since MH MGs gameplays? were too role-specific.
Yes, too bad this isn‘t vanilla. People still have roles. We just don‘t know them. So I‘m unsure whether I‘m Bomb and should be getting killed or Freeman trying to avoid it. But then again maybe I‘m overthinking it and assuming we‘re all vanilla is good for early game, then adjust as people die + the floor reveals.
 

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For Evil/Zirc SM reveal, I don't even know why we needed that information this early tbh.
Well, it at least gives people possible choices for nights, instead of not knowing the own role, and who to target.
The way I see it, if all townies concentrade on either one of us, or split to both, we'll likely have a fruitful recruiting by a mason recruiter, potentially have a spy action, and if insane doc gets a kill done, a possible detective result with a sanity check for it.

I mean, I respect that there is scepticism, but IMO some information is always better than non.
 

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It seems so. They first need to get on 3rd floor though, the floor needs to be full, and then they'd also need to be voted to get it on that level. So quite some hurdles to jump.

I think I will attempt to get on 3rd floor too now instead roof.
Why the 3rd?
 

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damn so much talk.

ok so I read the mechanics and floors, so we're not allowed to go back to the ground floor, but we're allowed to go back to other floors previously visited right? if not then I don't think top floor should be the first choice. if not, then it doesn't matter, need to read up on what the prosecutor does tho'.

How are those roles revealed "in private"? Like we each receive a PM regarding who is what?

Seems like a pretty town oriented mechanic, so I think we got this in the bag!

it'll still take me a bit to read back, got a lot of work today :( tight deadlines, but I'll be back after work and catch up on everything you guys talked, these are my notes for now.
 

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Why the 3rd?
No idea anymore, I thought it's a good option for town, but then digital said and I double checked the role, that the Prosecutor dies when the target is actually town.

Now I am not so sure if it's really a good idea, and think we definitely should discuss the options that we have.
 

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Wait, am I naked except socks and gloves?
:arf



But the reveal is gonna be just a mafia role on the two floors (between 16 people), so usefulness is also quite questionable,
On contrary, it can be very useful, since players in floor 1 or 2 are supposed to know who are in floors 1 or 2 if we get to know theres a mafia det. or janitor or wtv in those floors we can proceed by elimination to find out who is. as long as hosts give us the role and the place where the scum is. My point is that those 2 floors will collapse eventually we'd better make best use of them before it happens. The fact they have to collapse, means those 2 floors are really important for the game, at some point, probably not in starting games but a little later, especially in a game where Mafia seems to have upperhand.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

A Mafia can get the Prosecutor ability too, right?
Are you a mafia who wants prosecutor ability ?:heh
 

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On contrary, it can be very useful, since players in floor 1 or 2 are supposed to know who are in floors 1 or 2 if we get to know theres a mafia det. or janitor or wtv in those floors we can proceed by elimination to find out who is. as long as hosts give us the role and the place where the scum is. My point is that those 2 floors will collapse eventually we'd better make best use of them before it happens. The fact they have to collapse, means those 2 floors are really important for the game, at some point, probably not in starting games but a little later, especially in a game where Mafia seems to have upperhand.
Yeah, but that's like knowing that in a 24 players game are likely to be 6 mafias...

It's going to be a little more interesting however, if a mafia role is not revealed, meaning that on floor 3 and rooftop (together like 11 players?) are all of the mafias.
 

Erinyes

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Nah, if they die if they kill mafia instead they just gonna go "oopsie, I really thought they were mafia."
which cant happen as they know who is who, they have big advantage here, except of they target 2nd mafia/or Tp assuming theres 2 killing parties, which is plausible.
 
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