Games Mafia Game 93 - BnHA: The Burning Building - End Game

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Sorry, this took a while >_< Wanted to extensive player reviews, but now that the next game has started, I figured I'd keep it short after all

Thank you again for participating, everyone! Those who spent time playing, those who won, those who hosted and even the spectators; all of you together made this a fun experience! The death pad at times vitriolic, at other times, just toxic (as it should be). I'll go over some stuff here, cover the broad strokes.


👨‍🚒 👩‍🚒 Mechanics and Balance 🦸‍♂️ 🦸‍♀️

Compared to what you guys got, my earliest proposals for this mechanic were actually much more demanding of the players. For better or worse, Noona's input balanced the game out by taking away a considerable amount of decision-making. Personally, I'm a spice man, but over the course of hosting a couple of games now with her, I think I've grown to not just respect but incorporate some of her game-design ideas/preferences into my own. A few more games and I'll be Brazilian Corruption'd so much, I can apply for a passport.

At the base of it all was Noona's inverse janitor idea, whereby only death could reveal your role. Though presumably harder on newer players, across the board, it decidedly did influence the player approach towards the game. Maybe the most noticeable effect was that the players were deprived of just enough information to focus on the actual behaviour of others. Sure, some of the mafo made spicy claims, but maybe the lack of information across the board did more to help the noobies than not knowing hampered them.

The Burning Building stuff I think I produced a week or week and a half before the game started. We spent like 3 years trying to figure this out, our styles and personalities clashing constantly. 'We' here also includes Poopler and Marms who had their own ideas and inputs. The building idea I thought would have incorporated most ideas. The voting-for-your-role bit became the central part of the design, with us hoping that nearly everybody would know their role by the time D4ish would come around.

Initially, our ideas on how to arrange the First and Second floors differed. I personally wanted different effects for both floors, with only one floor being the Reveal floor (but revealing 5 instead of 3). Noona developed an interesting line of thought here, involving player choice and the idea that the floor capacities should be what Players aim to manage, rather than just the individual choice of what powers to use. This was enforced by the floor only working if a precise amount of people entered. Comparatively, this meant that some amount of people would probably always get their role revealed, which would keep the game moving smoothly.

The Roof Floor revealing Mafia created an interesting situation early around D2ish when the second McDo was revealed. What's painful is that it turned out that was the second Doc hiding amongst you 💀 Btw, in hindsight, I think it would have been better to personally reveal to the mafia member in question that their role got revealed that it was them who was revealed (i.e. let the McDo know they're the McDo once the top floor revealed as such).

The Prosecutor Floor, depending on how actions played out, could have been hidoi. While ofc it was clear that at some point a bunch of Prosecutors could be walking around town, it was scary to consider how many shots could be fired in one day. Personally, 1.) I figured the range of shots would have been around 4 and that 2.) people wouldn't go around cajoling the prosecutors (as they might be mafia killed otherwise). Perhaps it was for the best to force people (Shobu) to shoot but overall, given how valuable the power is, though I can't really imagine town revenge-lynching a reluctant Prosecutor. I mean I ain't y'all but I'd be scared of losing sth important. Though I'm not sure about the minutiae, Tatsu who was in the room with Eri then proceeded to kill her :lmao

Oh yeah, the Ground Floor, where y'all started, initially was supposed to randomly poison one of the leavers 💀 In the end, we settled on Hot Potato being more Player-friendly. My idea was that people who failed to enter another floor would just end up here again, but RNG'ing you onto another floor was deemed, again, more Player-friendly (which is true). So, as far as the mechanic goes, all I can say is I'm happy we managed to figure out sth that was acceptable to all four of us lol ç__ç

As for balance, there were a few hiccups here and there. While some players got shafted accidentally (Pomcha), intentionally (Sakura), stupidly (Sam) and some others didn't use their role altogether (Lamb, Van), a central complaint we've received has to do with the amount of mafo in the game. Personally, I think the mafo should have had it quite rough, and simply played out the end-game well (though they had a couple of advantages going into this game-state).

The most important dynamic here that, admittedly I personally at least, didn't fully consider, was that the number of player-kills per night (if all of them go through i.e. are unblocked etc.) will only go down once the full team has been slain. That's to say, in the Red case, for instance, only once Desu died, would there be one night-kill less. Sure, losing (wo)man-power sucks, especially if the role attached to the name was strong, and it sets you back half-a-phase in meeting your wincon, but notably, the killing power of mafo doesn't go down. Because of this, even with the Red implosion and lack of mislynching by town, so long purple avoided stacking their kills with Red (through prediction or just prestidigitation), they'd able to piggyback on their killing powers. It is not like we didn't attempt to balance this; with the abundance of prosecutor powers and another party out to kill them without having Doc immediately available, they were at risk. It's just that so long town consistently culls one team, and neither mafo focuses on killing their counterpart, ironically, the remaining team 'absorbs' the momentum.

Some other balance concerns or mishaps will be touched on in the following section. Lots of it has been discussed in pads on disc. If there's something else that I didn't cover here and wasn't discussed on disc, ofc feel free to point it out here on the thread and we can discuss it​

🚒 🚑 Players 🔥💀

16. sakura_aneki as Shoto | Mafia Boss | Lynched D1
It is unfortunate you died quite early and set off a cascade. Uh, I don't think you did yourself a lot of favours by locking so early, but, in the same vein, it's not entirely fair to hold you being killed by your own fam against you. Sure, anyone could have killed you bc of this move, but it shouldn't have been your own guy. I suppose 'lesson learnt' for next time; can't trust anyone in this game 🗡


1. GrySun as Lemillion | Mafia Detective | Killed N1
One of our resident favourites, unfortunately, was slain in single combat. The only non-town to be slain by another at night, in fact. A little saddening, though not entirely unexpected. Since your killer signed up for next game, surely you'll have a chance at revenge this time around 💀


15. Holt as Ingenium | Detective, Traitor | Lynched D2
Insane Det with (Naive) Traitor is (one of) my 'preferred' builds; it gives the player two things to figure out by using the same mechanic. They have some room for diagnosing their situation through their own volition. Given your unfortunate early death, however, this little mini-game never came to fruition. It is a little saddening you died a sacrificial lamb; technically you were the only mislynch in-game


24. Evil3ye as Shinso | Doctor, Super Mason | Killed N2
Though it has been mentioned many a time that Eripan couldn't target easy, since the Super Mason secondaries weren't hidden, Eripan had a couple of targets to pick from (should they declare, which they did). So while purely number-wise she was in a tough spot, eligible targets could somewhat vouch for themselves. Funnily enough, she actually picked a 'hidden' Super Mason (Jinx), who lied to everyone (including Eri) so that she could play the part of a cleansed townie. I think you were next on the recruit list, Evil, or pretty high up there at least. Hopefully, you get to play a bit longer next time


11. Shad as Deku | Mafia Doctor | Lynched D3
A few... miscalculations... Here and there... You did redeem yourself though, and almost all actions you took were considerably spicy. I liked the rogue PGO claim, though maybe it was a little too early to make that sort of claim. Nonetheless, fun to see, though I imagine it less delightful to be on the receiving end of your dagger lol


6. JamesRye as Cellophane | Apprentice, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D3
You even said 'Ah I hope I ain't the Apprentice' :lmao I never quite got why you chose to shoot Erichi btw :0


9. Lady Pompom as Creati | Psychiatrist, Hot Potato | Exploded D3
Sorry you exploded a phase too early, Pomcha ç___ç Your main role was supposed to detect secondaries, verify such claims, maybe pressure the traitor who was still unsure of their position. In an earlier iteration, there were also Lovers that you could find, but we determined that could create a pad overload for two very unfortunate players. In the end, you were kept in so that you could snuff out the eventual Traitor, or draw attention to players hiding their secondary like Jinx. Sorta ironic the secondary-spotting power... was killed by a passable secondary


2. Erinyes as Pinky | Mason Recruiter, Prosecutor | Killed N3
You got done dirty Eripan, and you died an ironic death; after surviving the Prosecutor shot, you got killed as soon as you got your own hands on it. It beats suiciding on the role, though. At least you recruited someone? ç__ç


18. Asako Gryffindor as Froppy | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D4
Thank you for subbing in Gryff! Your predecessor lowkey fucked up your position but thanks to Shad's heroics and your way with words you managed to pull through and live to shitpost another day. Hopefully next time you join you start out less compromised 🙏


17. Shobu_Yoruichi as Chargebolt | Mafia Detective, Prosecutor | Killed by Failed Prosecutor attempt D4
I think you should have been slightly more patient XD You got peer-pressured into shooting, and I respect you doing so, but you should have been more patient anyway. I didn't think a Mafia would risk it. And if I had, personally, I might have Shadded one of my own. Ofc, it was also more or less your first game, and you were in a tough position (unlike your other noobie counterparts, you were mafia). Oh, also, I like how you took the Bankai part of the explanation seriously and actually publically went Bankai xD It's unfortunate that last-hour rule was invoked on you, that slightly hurt your credentials probably, but props for the flair. Spice good


7. Lambu as Red Riot | Detective, Sickly | Killed N4
Some raised the Sickly v unknown role point, and personally, I disagree with the notion that Sickly made the primary role unusable. Especially on the first night, when Sickly'ing someone was not much better than RNG D1 vote, I myself at least would have used my role to see if there was feedback. I can see the cost-benefit part that comes from choosing between using Det and Sickly, but you didn't know your primary at all until you died ç__ç Ofc I can understand your position, but I didn't think a player would opt into not trying their main role at all. Sth for us/me to consider next time.


4. Crescent Jinx as Nejirechan | Spy, Super Mason | Killed N4
Interesting ploy, hiding your Spy status from everyone. A notably powerful strategy and quite believable at that. Eventually, you became a target for your information retention skills LOL, another kind of information gathering I suppose. V dangerous


3. SirSamuel016 as Vantablack | Mafia Poisoner | Lynched D5
If I could have made a top 5 worst roles to claim in your position, I think Troublemaker might just be on there. It bought you another day, but at what cost? LOL Other than that, I liked your presence in the Floor pads. It was kinda funny how at some point (I think N3 or 4 or sth) you entered the room, all 'heyo what's up' and 12 people all at once started attacking you. I'd say 'poor guy' but you bullied me a lot so...


14. Juviii as Uravity | Jesus | Killed N5
Juvling has noticeably improved; compared to earlier games where you passively trolled town by pulling a Shinoona on us and going poof. I'd (we'd) say you're much more involved now. Furthermore, it's not naive aggression but pretty accurate remarks and to-the-point arguments. Sure, you were confirmed, but your gameplay itself might have warranted a kill at this point in the game anyway


5. Demonspeed Vandred as Tsukuyomi | Hider | Killed N5
Thank you Vindred for subbing in for Demon! You were quite important in that you were a sub for a townie, not a mafo (which usually is the case). Hopefully, precedent now has been set that any kind of player can be subbed in, not just mafia lol. Did you have any developed thoughts on how to handle subbing in better (things that make it easier or faired for the sub in to fit in)? Curious if you do. Unfortunate situation with you missing the timing to PM your action ç__ç Game might have looked a bit different had you submitted, but who can tell how much tbh. As usual, solid and balanced play. Had the game gone on a little longer you could have even deployed a Vanplan or two.


10. desin24 as Shemage | Mafia Escort | Lynched D6
The final Red to die. You did quite good tbh, surviving or as long as you did. Especially your fighting spirit shone through 🔥 I feel like you roll prosti more often than Taku or sth at this point lol


19. Avietar as Battlefist | Mortician | Killed N6
Ahh, we had a few miscomms in our PM concerning role usage, but overall, I'm happy you were as active as you were! You had a slightly harder role to figure out the purpose of (which... you might have had on N3 iirc if not for the miscommunication >_<). Overall, I liked how you did your best and stayed in the pads till quite late in your timezone xD Good stuff


21. digitaldude as Invisible Girl | Bodyguard | Lynched D7
Ahh I felt very bad receiving your PM's DD. At multiple points, I think not just me, but the other hosts as well would have wanted to PM you, assuring you your actions went through and that we didn't forget or whatever. It just was your role that didn't give you any feedback ç__ç Towards the end the more experienced players managed to capitalize on the attrition damage the chibis took and paint you as suspicious.


8. SonOfDaws as Earphone Jack | Mafia Boss | WINNER
Very involved in the mafia pads, scheming it out. I liked your play by the end, fucking up floor pad. I suppose any mafo could have done it, but I think that act greatly contributed to the momentum-seeking chibis losing their footing. Had they had a pad to discuss and consolidate, they might have turned against you guys in a fury. Pretty good job on staying separated from the others till the end; I'd have to go back and check but I don't think many players had an end-game in mind that linked you to Lawl or Tatsu.


12. Maryxxi as Suneater | Prostitute | LOSER
Similarly to Avi, I liked your activity a lot! Even when you were asking questions, they were well-thought-out inquiries that clearly indicated some level of research and understanding of the game. Like the other chibi's, you were mostly hampered by lack of experience and not having role list info at the ready (both of which can be helped in few games). Your targeting was decent (as well as equal parts tragic when you got blocked by the mafo prosti). I hope you stick around for more games later 🙏


13. Tatsumaki as Real Steel | Mafia Doctor | WINNER
Was the part about you having to go to the station for wi-fi real? That's some real MVP-level dedication LOL Tbh you were pretty invisible (as a mafo) for the vast majority of the game and even towards the end you weren't really suspected. You fit in naturally and were excluded from most end-game mafo rosters. Good stuff


20. Equaling Heaven as PhantomThief | Bulletproof | LOSER
I think on thread the most inquisitive townie! Aggressive forward play, asking questions and producing theories. play like a noob (though then again you didn't last game either). In a few more games I think you'll have a much better understanding of the possibilities available. GG 🙏


22. Zirconium as Dynamight | Banshee, Super Mason | LOSER
Like Mary, I liked the questions you asked. Really didn't come across as a first-time player of sorts. I hope you keep playing and try your luck at solving the murder mystery next time ç__ç


23. Tsar Blyatinum as Lizardy | Mafia Escort | WINNER
Hyung-nim simply can't be mafia :blush I think hyung did a good job staying under the radar and keeping it together throughout the game. I feel like usually you'd have attracted more attention, but similar to the Titan game, even as a mafo you sat it out. Your targeting was quite good too. In terms of grit, Tatsu probs did 'best', but in terms of performance, you're up there!
​

🚒 🚑 Spices 🔥💀










POW!
​
 
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Shad

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I don't know..shall i perhaps go to the second?

So did i read it right, all three top voted from floor 1 night 1 had their roles revealed to them?

If there was a voting and we know Gry was mafia as well as a Mafia Doctor (could or could not be from same team), I'd expect that to deny townies to learn their roles they cooperated to put themselves into pole positions. In that case Holt is very suspicious now.

I will give Shad a pass for now, because he clearly cannot be from same team as Sakura and gry, although PGO claim is quite a weird claim.
I don't think it is really that wierd, multiple killing parties, roof floors collapsing and mafia doctor.

In the SnK game the cart titan (doctor) was used by mafia on the person performing the kill in case the colossal titan is used (PGO). But i could be misremembering @SonOfDaws
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That's a very good point. @Shad whatchu doin???
Only 3 people can reveal their role, not all 8 need to be unrevealed.

What the issue if with wanting to be in the pad and help pick who get revealed?
 

Evil3ye

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Only 3 people can reveal their role, not all 8 need to be unrevealed.

What the issue if with wanting to be in the pad and help pick who get revealed?
No thanks, you had you're fun night discussions already. I'm going there this night. Besides, I think the masons should learn their roles now, as we are pretty useless so far other than being bit more trusted. I don't even think there is a recruiter in this game anymore as nobody came forward today.
 

Lady pompom

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I targeted @Lambu last night and got a result he had a secondary role. That said, my role was revealed, so cut me off from Mafia doc chase.
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I personally think my role is useless, but oh well.
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why everyone targets me !? :pout
You are too cute to not be popular! :blush
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For now I am leaning towards Cres/Asako as lynch, so as placeholder Votekill Crescent
 

Erinyes

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and of course you targetted lambu who coincidentally jumped on crescent wagon and you do too ?
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and of course he has a sceondary role he said he gave me sickly ? that reveal pompom is way too convenient to my taste, you were not even in my suspects list vbefore, but that move of you is wrong.
 

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that reveal pompom is way too convenient to my taste, you were not even in my suspects list vbefore, but that move of you is wrong.
Agreed.

Claiming a new role is kinda risky though. I really like to know what was the thought process targeting Lambu in first place.
 

digitaldude

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votekill tatsumaki from floor 1 erin seems townie and said stuff about her role. Shad sniped the mafia boss. Crescent Jinx also shared info about her role. Gry is dead mafia. So the mafia is probably in those last 4. of course mafia doctor doesnt have to worry about spy that much so even with her hint it might be jinx, still the others are laying low.
 

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I distrust him on those games and I even called him out when he asked why not vote me instead of Sakura and asako
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Agreed.

Claiming a new role is kinda risky though. I really like to know what was the thought process targeting Lambu in first place.
If I was mafia, it would be too risky D2 come and reveal a role in testing, just to sabe my skin when ppl already distrust me a bit
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votekill tatsumaki from floor 1 erin seems townie and said stuff about her role. Shad sniped the mafia boss. Crescent Jinx also shared info about her role. Gry is dead mafia. So the mafia is probably in those last 4. of course mafia doctor doesnt have to worry about spy that much so even with her hint it might be jinx, still the others are laying low.
Add that my role was revealed, I am psychiatrist
 

digitaldude

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I distrust him on those games and I even called him out when he asked why not vote me instead of Sakura and asako
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If I was mafia, it would be too risky D2 come and reveal a role in testing, just to sabe my skin when ppl already distrust me a bit
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Add that my role was revealed, I am psychiatrist
WOT IS THIS ROLE???
 

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WOT IS THIS ROLE???
New role in test, check roles for testing in the other thread where ppl make suggestions
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I will go out now and it will take some time, but I will try to come before dp ends
 

Asako

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James, i believe I'm allowed to be sarcastic, i wasn't serious with demon, thought it was obvious
Also james, I don't believe this is the first time i gambled over sth, plus the fact i gotten sick in MG won't make me regret doing it and me not knowing my role (btw I'm honestly been wondering how lambu played that one game while he had covid )

Also i targeted zirc but nothing, figure that mafia will more likely avoid evil cause he could be a popular target in fear of doc protect and may go for zirc instead, reverse psychology, so I tried y luck if I'm doc to protect her
Also the fact i could recruit her if I'm the recruiter but no luck, guess I'm no shino with how many time she got that role...
 

digitaldude

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New role in test, check roles for testing in the other thread where ppl make suggestions
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I will go out now and it will take some time, but I will try to come before dp ends
AVOIDING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEW ROLE YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE? OH NO OH NO NO NO.
 

Shad

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James, i believe I'm allowed to be sarcastic, i wasn't serious with demon, thought it was obvious
Also james, I don't believe this is the first time i gambled over sth, plus the fact i gotten sick in MG won't make me regret doing it and me not knowing my role (btw I'm honestly been wondering how lambu played that one game while he had covid )

Also i targeted zirc but nothing, figure that mafia will more likely avoid evil cause he could be a popular target in fear of doc protect and may go for zirc instead, reverse psychology, so I tried y luck if I'm doc to protect her
Also the fact i could recruit her if I'm the recruiter but no luck, guess I'm no shino with how many time she got that role...
OOOOO man I feel bad doubting you, I hope you get better.
 

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Shad (Tendency: townie)
  • claims to be PGO? (+)
  • him votelocking sakura on D1 in the last minute (+)
  • potential third party or second mafia party (-)
Pompom (Tendency: non-townie)
  • her posts didn‘t stand out to me so far (neutral)
  • her targetting Lambu and the timing are indeed weird -> Why telling us now? Why not yesterday right after the start of D2? Plus, she was one of the first ppl to post right after the start of the day. There was no harm in withholding this kind of information. (-)
Erin (Tendency: townie)
  • her overall efforts to help the town (+)
  • had a little argument with Gry last night in the pad (+)
  • Gry votelocked her on D1 and wanted to start a bandwagon on her (+)
Tatsu (Tendency: neutral)
  • didn‘t appear in the pad (-)
  • talked about the other first floor ppl and had an overall neutral opinion towards them except for Holt. Thinks that he is very sus because of him being less active (neutral)
Asako (Tendency: non-townie)
  • her vote choice yesterday -> her explanation makes sense at first but I still have a bad feeling about her; James also mentioned quite a few good points in #595 about her behavior (-)
  • her mentioning that the Mafia Doctor is not very dangerous (he might not pose a threat but one less enemy is good for us imo) (neutral)
Crescent (Tendency: non-townie)
  • her mentioning that Holt held the potato although the rules clearly stated that the hot potato will be given „at the start of N1,after people move to the other floors.“ (-)
  • her focusing on Holt (neutral)
  • otherwise her posts didn‘t stand out to me so far (neutral)
Holt (Tendency: neutral)
  • claims from other ppl that he wasn‘t that interactive in the pad (-)
  • quite a few ppl mentioned that he is being more discreet than usual (-)
  • his posts seem quite logical to me so far (+)
From the 1st floor ppl I consider Asako, Pompom or Crescent to be most suspicious so far.
 
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