Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Newkerzy]

I wonder what'll happen in regards to a physical volume release for this new Bleach chapter, Kubo doesn't have any extra oneshots or anything to pad it with but 70 pages isn't nearly enough on its own.

Perhaps we'll get Burn with Witch part 2 soon and this will be included in v2 of that?

Actually I'm wondering now if this new chapter will perhaps connect Bleach to Burn the Witch more directly, that's definitely something I could picture Kubo doing.

The one-shot did pretty much do that. But most likely, it will expand on that Easter Egg from the original one-shot.

 

[SharkBait]

stick the BLeach chapter in an anniversary color book or art book, like what that BLeach Color+ book was

 

[James Rye]

What pisses me off about TPGW is that someone here in the forum (sorry for not remembering now) posted what should have happened for the manga to be really good. It would have required a change in perspective, change of main character, but it would have been a lot better and the main premise could have been preserved. Okay, maybe in the end the Japanese audience wouldn't have liked it, but at least the reveal of the main goal of the "antagonist", that would have been saving the now-main character, would soften the situation from the start (not actual start, but from the plot twist onwards)

I think that might have been me. At least I remember writing a couple posts about the stuff in the 2020 thread and in the TPGW thread, that could be improved on it, from my own humble perspective as an avid manga reader obviously.

I checked outta curiosity what I wrote last year. You talking about those posts, Wookitake?

Spoiler: Lotsa quotes in here, so you can ignore this post easier^^

About TPG, it had a lot of potential unused and you can blame who you want but personally I put most, not all, of the blame on the Mangaka and the editor of the series for not creating a more vast and interesting character cast (like only two really ever mattered and even those two didn't interact that much with each other), a leading MC duo to avoid monologue after monologue chapter of one character (like just use Aino as 2nd MC for Christ sake! An obsessed Normie and an obsessed Genius is a good mix, with one being the better artist and on being the better writer!), less whining (you didn't kill anyone, Teppei, stop being so overdramatic) more "Bakuman" focus as in how mangas get produced and what you as a Mangaka can do to improve a series or how to highlight stuff or how to properly characterize characters or "show don't tell" etc. Biggest Issue for me was that Aino was never let in on the "secret" because THAT could have solved a lot of the problems this series had after the 2nd chapter.
Yeah, I don't see this surviving for the rest of the year and I don't really want it to do so either. It is sad for those who liked it but blaming only the Japanese audience for the incoming axe ain't right either.

Just like he did, in the first chapter and then couple chapters later with each time a new WSJ volume to keep going. Just have Teppei tell Aino the truth and they would work together as Aino has yet to get the ten years of drawing experience and polishing her author skills to create what her future self created. It stops Teppei from being a lonely self-pitying mess which hardly anyone liked at least from what I have seen in most forums and it gives Aino a more prominent role in the series as she is both Teppei's partner in crime as well as his best excuse to continue the plagiarism as she herself says it is okay. Especially after the secret of what happens to her future self gets out. Have the two work together as a duo for the first couple/first dozen chapters and focus on their relationship, Aino learning from Teppei art-wise and him learning story/character-wise from Aino's genius both the future and the present one so that as a reader you can already anticipate that Aino and Teppei will be future rivals once WK has ended. Have the Editor be a bigger part, the whole "this is perfect I got nothing to add" got boring real quick and I liked it when we had Hattori give his experience in the manga business to his young mangakas to give Input to their series. Add some assistants later on with a funny misunderstanding of Teppei and Aino being all secretive and her being over at his apartment with the timemachine to have them think they are dating and we got some shenanigans at work and abroad from it.
There is a lot of stuff that could have been done to make this more interesting and attention grabbing.

Also WSJ got years of series so they should know what is and what is not badly received by their audience, so they can anticipate what the likes and dislikes are with each chapter. Also the first 5-6 chapters are written in advance so it's not like the reader's Input had a huge deal until the 7th chapter. Instead of going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Teppei's guilt, Aino needed to be introduced much earlier, either straight away accusing him of stealing her work or even go as far as breaking into his home to find "evidence" and so on and have them pair up to clean up this mess as them telling the world they got a timemachine would mean WK would never be able to be finished and both love the series too much to let that happen. A Editor with a real character needed to be implemented not as a cheerleader but as a real critic giving real critics based on their surveys of the past and current trends and what not. All of that could have been the choice of either the creator or his editor, readers had none of that, they just judged first chapter well and all chapters afterwards as crap, because you can have one maybe two guilt-tripping chapters but once you get past three and four it just sucks.
So yes, most of the blame for TPG failing does lay on its creator and his supporting Editor as the readers can only judge what they are given and if said judgement causes them to rush the series and turn it into a hot mess then that is not helping the series either.
I find it more selfish to blame the readers who are innocent of the creation of the series.
But again, your opinion, my opinion. Let's agree to disagree. Not like arguing here gonna save this series anyway.

You are the one making things up. I never said this got dunked soley for its theme, you are the only one who keep harking on that. It got dunked for the presentation of its theme (like how the genderbender in Hungry Marie failed but might succeed in AT. Same theme, different presentation), of its missed characterization, its poor cast, its sidelining of the second most important character, it failing to generate real sympathy for the MC, for focusing so much on the timemachine and plagiarism on its own that the other stuff like relationship building and mangaka/artist/author techniques which could have grabbed other readers interest who don't mind the theme so much but didn't found anything else interesting enough for them to keep reading.
And yes, while all that might not have been enough to save this series or get it a large enough followership/good TOC ratings, it certainly didn't helped it was all missed.

And yes, thats why I said Mangaka and Editor as the WSJ Editors are the ones who decide which series to give a go and which not and how strongly they interfere with a mangaka's work and how much they let them run fictional amok. But TPG itself said that they only get to see the One-shot/first chapter and decide based on that to release it or not and the first TPG chapter was good and its first ranking was also not bad. So far so good. Now would have WSJ done the same if they had the entire first volume up front or would they be like "you sure doing 4 chapters of self-pity is a good idea? Isn't this "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" a bit too much in the face? Parts of our readership might not like it.". Some Mangakas like Ashihara worked for years on their project and wrote entire BOOKS before showing the first chapter to WSJ who then have a much better idea where this series will go and if there is or is no potential for it which is why they didn't axe WT first twenty chapters and instead said "cut the entire school arc, it ain't getting enough attention, bring in Jin earlier and accelerate Yuuma entering Border, there is the interesting stuff that will gain attention" or why they didn't stop WT after Ashihara's horrible health for two years and instead said "go monthly, we don't want this series to end too early" and neither did the Japanese readership given the sales increased after the two year hiatus.
But what came for TPG after the first chapter was what really hurt it and could have needed some guidance from the Series Editor to move things along more smoothly in the first couple chapters instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again when you could have introduced more interesting and attention grabbing stuff.

Like you can see it in this forum/thread.
First chapter? Hardly anyone criticized it, much less for its theme. There were concerns about it but no boycott calls or whatever.
But second and from on there chapter? More and more people losing interest, getting annoyed with Teppei and wondering where this is supposed to go. This is why a good first chapter doesn't guarantee you a long life. Saiyuki had the same problem with an interesting first chapter and then just snoozing off in the house for 6 chapters in a row before something interesting happened.
Anyone can tell you that that's not the way to success and an Editor should have realized and tell it to the mangaka who should have adjusted to it or even expected what readers might like and not like based on the surveys/Editor talks. TPG is simply going down the same Path as Saiyuki. Good idea, bad execution. It happens all the time. No need to demonize the Japanese for not liking it.

And just so you know, that is the end of my part of the discussion. Feel free to write what you want, I won't reply to it anymore.

Those are from the 2020 thread though most of it was about its flaws and that discussion back then about people in the thread blaming the Japanese audience for TPGW's dooming axe but I think what you mean is what I wrote back then in the TPGW thread:

*snipe*

Also I dislike we got another timeskip. Just last chapter Aino had her first chapter out of her new series and this one we go all the way to 30th chapter of Anima. We don't even talk about Teppei and WK for all we know he got sacked from WSJ! And hell for a series about manga this hardly ever talks about manga or the series which are so "hyped" by everyone. In Bakuman we at least got some real in-sight into the respective series of the mangakas as well as their artstyle and how creating manga actually works here we just get guilt, a timemachine and some dubious plan from an alternative timeline Teppei telling current Teppei to "beat" Aino because that will somehow save her because obviously he was able to figure that out in his original timeline where she died. Right now it just feels like a mess that keeps jumping around. I would have rather prefered a Bakuman like series but with outsider Aino as MC who learns how to draw manga and create a story on her own with us watching over her and Teppei as the rival who keeps copying her series by using his timemachine which is kept secret until Aino finds out that she died in the original timeline and that her rival is trying to save her life and then they try to figure out how to avoid that fate.

*snipe*

Thanks, I think it would have been a nice twist if the readers had seen everything from Aino's perspective like "this guy Teppei is as good if not better than me, I am going to compete and win against him!" to "Why are his ideas so close to mine? Are we really thinking alike?" to "He stole my work! He's not a rival! He's a thief! But how did he do that?" to finally "Wait? My rival was trying to save my life the whole time and he got my work with a timemachine?" would have taken probably anyone by surprise or most even if you do give a few hints here and there as many would rather believe a villain Rival stealing ideas from a poor loner genius girl than the farfetched timemachine theory. Aino's perspective would have been more interesting as more stuff would have been left in mystery and Teppei as character would have come over less as whiny and guilty-driven as more as cunning and ambitious to until his real character of being worn out, exhausted, riddled with guilt and conviction of still doing the right thing. Like at the start he could have been shown as a genuine mentor, a kind rival, a friendly supporter to mid-way become a cunning fox, an evil smiling bastard who "enjoys" (from the reader's perspective seeing it from Aino's POV) Aino failing to win against him, a ruthless bastard who clearly uses Aino's fresh ideas one-to-one but uses his position as senior and famous mangaka to ensure nobody challenges him of a crime to until the confirmation of his timemachine and trying to prevent a future in which Aino dies.
It would be interesting to basically have two storylines of which one is mostly hidden until Teppei has to reveal it to Aino to avoid worse and then both storylines merging together into one to create a new future in which the until then not knowing of her own demise MC can prevent her own downfall.

But alas, we didn't.

I'm kinda happy that after a whole year and some more months, you still remember my proposal for the changes in the TPGW story to make it more engaging/interesting. ^^

 

[Thundercat27]

Stop fantasizing, who's abandoning a manga that sells almost 100K?

And magu hasn't even gone over 20K even after 4 volumes.

Such hateboner.
You are 32 year old. How about dedicate that much hatred and energy for something relevant like climate change instead of children comic?
Also, stop falling for cheap bait (from fucking SharkBAIT of all people), and perpentuate this Magu discussion timeloop that going nowhere.

 

[KiMiTo]

About ToC #35:

Welcome back, Akutami-sensei and JJK
ToC is a little bit chaotic, but it's not that much of a surprise since we have a lot of stable series. Candy Flurry is pretty much a dead meat. The real question is who'll be gone with it. One between Neru and Red Hood or maybe both and we''ll have a batch of 4 new series.
Excited about that special Bleach chapter btw, it'll be such a nostalgic experience.

 

[Stivie]

With the issue #36/37, Yozakura will be 5 cconsecutive issues without a new cp, the series started in the #39 of 2019 and the cp for the 1st anniversary was in the #39 of 2020, so probably safe to assume is going to get the cover + lead cp of #39 for the 2nd anniversary

Yozakura spent the entire month of April just earning CP. The manga won't be canceled so there's no problem there's no CP for a while.

 

[savethecat]

About ToC #35:

Welcome back, Akutami-sensei and JJK
ToC is a little bit chaotic, but it's not that much of a surprise since we have a lot of stable series. Candy Flurry is pretty much a dead meat. The real question is who'll be gone with it. One between Neru and Red Hood or maybe both and we''ll have a batch of 4 new series.
Excited about that special Bleach chapter btw, it'll be such a nostalgic experience.

Red Hood and Neru probably won't be ready to cancelled yet by the time Candy Flurry gets axed(Assuming they get axed at all)

 

[Hermit]

@Demonspeed Could you help pin this?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2021 ---

@Demonspeed Unpin this since its outdated now. Hope I am not being bothersome

 

[Demonspeed]

@z already did it.

 

[Wookitake]

I'm kinda happy that after a whole year and some more months, you still remember my proposal for the changes in the TPGW story to make it more engaging/interesting. ^^

Good posts need to be remembered! Sorry for not remembering that you posted it though
The changes in the volumes show how Shueisha miscalculated the reception to the theme.

---

Regarding the TOC, good to know Sakamoto is back up. Also, is this Endeavor one-shot the work Horikoshi mentioned some weeks/months ago?

 

[Shokkii]

Happy to see everyone is back the last time we had Black Clover, One Piece, BnHA, JJK and Dr. Stone in one issue was TOC 27.

 

[Xzone]

I hope not. I don't like BtW.

Just have him write another one-shot next year or so. Or hell, invite some other writers to do their take on the series. I always like seeing different styles.

I like BtW but I hope Kubo does this.
Make a oneshot in fall(something diferent or some character past like urahara) and BtW part 2 in winter and then you have 2 volume to release.

 

[James Rye]

Good posts need to be remembered! Sorry for not remembering that you posted it though
The changes in the volumes show how Shueisha miscalculated the reception to the theme.

---

Regarding the TOC, good to know Sakamoto is back up. Also, is this Endeavor one-shot the work Horikoshi mentioned some weeks/months ago?

Thanks.
Like I said back then, the theme might have been received more positively if the story had either been done from the victim's PoV aka Aino who tries to bring the "evil" Teppei to justice while also learning from him and getting better and more confident in her own skills with each passing arc just to find out in the end that the idea thief has been trying to save her life ever since chapter 1 OR if they had brought in Aino fist-swinging into chapter 2 screaming "You stole my work! Prepare for my wrath-wait, what's that for a strange device? Why it is glowing? Why is it smoking? Waaaaaait a minute! Is that a Jump issue from the future? *GASP* IAMFAMOUS?!OHMAHGOSHOHMAHGOSHIAMSOHAPPY-I am dead?!?!?" and then had Teppei receive Aino's permission to continue copying her future work and that she would help him out as a writer even if she hasn't reached the height and level yet of her future self. I believe both of those versions could have prevented the sorta backslash TPGW faced after its first couple weeks, so in my opinion it is less a miscalculation about the theme as it is about its presentation. But eh, done's done, right?^^

About the TOC, why did UU receive a CP? Just so or was there a special reason for it I haven't read last week?

 

[Aeneas]

About the TOC, why did UU receive a CP? Just so or was there a special reason for it I haven't read last week?

Color Page- Undead Unluck (promising new development commemoration)

.

 

[KagamiKuroko]

Surprised TES isn't getting a CP one of the next 2 issues with volume 2 coming out next week

 

[Minsel]

Shoseki 7/28
#67 Black Clover
#151 Elusive Samurai
#359 Yozakura Family
#463 Undead Unluck

 

[Rukasu]

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Great cover, probably my favorite MHA anniversary cover.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2021 ---

Undead Unluck color page

 

[Rukasu]

MHA color spread:

Spoiler

 

[animeexpert]

I dunno about necessarily being the worst, but Time Paradox Ghostwriter with its premise being so rejected by the Japanese audience that they rewrote entire speech bubbles in the volume release, was easily the most disastrous serialization in recent memory.

Cancel culture in japan is top tier, the west can never compete in their own country