One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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LadyVados

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Go read the manga, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
He was exhausted because of fighting King

Unless you’re referring to the fight with Big Mom but that was like 10 chapters ago. This is a Shonen Manga. Characters aren’t tired from things that happened 10 chapters ago.
 

AmitDS

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He was exhausted because of fighting King

Unless you’re referring to the fight with Big Mom but that was like 10 chapters ago. This is a Shonen Manga. Characters aren’t tired from things that happened 10 chapters ago.
Wrong. He was exhausted fighting King and Queen BEFORE fighting King alone for a while after. And this was AFTER he was already expending himself and he did this longer than the R5 fought Kaido and Big Mom. Maybe you should re-read?















He was fighting King and Queen at first together and then vs King alone from chapters 1000 to around 1022 where he still helped out Zoro, Sanji and Chopper so...

So yeah saying King > Marco is wrong and everyone here knows it so I'm not entertaining this further.
 
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john ellis

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honestly i'm pretty sure kaido could solo king+queen mid dif. So yes i think it's a much better feat tag teaming kaido then i think is beating queen/king. I'd probably put kaido beating all 3 of his own commanders in a 3 vs 1. Might be high dif with all of them. But i can't see his commanders beating him.
 

Nie Li

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So yeah saying King > Marco is wrong and everyone here knows it
It's only an opinion. It's nice that you get validation from people who share your interpretation of the manga, and I know you love ad hominems and ad populums, but opinions aren't facts.

In this case, you were discussing a comparison between two characters who have not fought 1vs1 and are equals in rank. You have reasons to argue that Marco is stronger, and it's fine if those reasons are convincing for you, but they're not so for everyone. To me, certainly, the reasons to believe King is stronger are much more convincing and they were so well before the bounty reveal.

Marco vs King and Queen was like a Katakuri vs Big Mom: Katakuri would "clown" Big Mom for a while until he gets too tired to continue and then Big Mom would beat him with no difficulty.

Being "stronger" is not easy to define when speaking about characters on the same tier, and it's even harder with characters who possess very specific talents like Marco, but if we define it by "who would win 1vs1 fair duel", Marco is very likely to lose due to bad compatibility.

On top of everything that has already been said about the matchup on this thread, I'll add something new: we haven't even seen all of King yet, but we have seen all of Marco. We still haven't seen King's limits or even his hybrid form. We didn't even learn that he has actual pyrokinesis or anything about his brawler fighting style until after the Marco encounter. His most basic fighting characteristics and he didn't show them off against Marco, so we haven't seen anything about him yet other than how tanky he is. So tanky that Marco hasn't dealt any damage to him on more than 20 chapters (by your own counting) despite Marco attacking him relentlessly. Despite the regeneration disadvantage, everything indicates King is superior in a 1vs1, which is also fitting for the nature of Kaido's crew.

Marco has other virtues and is just mismatched. On a battlefield, they'd be equally fearful, but not 1vs1.

Anyway King having a higher bounty than Marco is Oda’s way of telling us that he’s stronger than him. Which he means he should be around Big Mom’s level
I hope you were just trying to troll AmitDS there.

honestly i'm pretty sure kaido could solo king+queen mid dif. So yes i think it's a much better feat tag teaming kaido then i think is beating queen/king. I'd probably put kaido beating all 3 of his own commanders in a 3 vs 1. Might be high dif with all of them. But i can't see his commanders beating him.
I don't think it's a black or white topic. It depends entirely on what you contribute to the tag team.

For example, in the past exchange against the Yonkous, Killer barely contributed anything at all (he tried to, but he wasn't useful). If Kaido had gone down to Luffy in that exchange, Zoro and Law would have had their meaningful contributions and feats recognized, but it wouldn't have meant a feat at all for Killer. Zoro taking down King will be a much better feat than what Killer would have gotten there in his "tag team" against Kaido.
 

Lord Traffy Law

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honestly i'm pretty sure kaido could solo king+queen mid dif. So yes i think it's a much better feat tag teaming kaido then i think is beating queen/king. I'd probably put kaido beating all 3 of his own commanders in a 3 vs 1. Might be high dif with all of them. But i can't see his commanders beating him.
Seeing how easily big mum with no homies dealt with queen , kaido would deal with Jack and queen very very quick , and seeing how kaido one shot gear 4 luffy and took no damage , all 3 calamities would get defeated pretty quickly imo, kaido defeats all 3 mid diff really
 

AmitDS

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It's only an opinion. It's nice that you get validation from people who share your interpretation of the manga, and I know you love ad hominems and ad populums, but opinions aren't facts.
Oh please spare us. You're so transparent on why you want King, Zoro's opponent to be > Marco that this is just so ironic and hilarious.

In this case, you were discussing a comparison between two characters who have not fought 1vs1 and are equals in rank. You have reasons to argue that Marco is stronger, and it's fine if those reasons are convincing for you, but they're not so for everyone. To me, certainly, the reasons to believe King is stronger are much more convincing and they were so well before the bounty reveal.
Well to you it's believable. It doesn't mean it's aligning with the manga. In no way would a character getting help to wear down another in a 2 vs 1 before a 1 vs 1, be hyped as stronger for winning in the end when the other is out of stamina. Replace them with Smoothie helping Katakuri vs King for a time before Katakuri beats exhausted King in a 1 vs 1 and you wouldn't be saying Katakuri > King because his future sight for example is a bad match up against King's various techniques.

I don't disagree that they can be equals however the notion that King would be stronger is what does not line up with the current state of the manga. This both sides are equal logic you try often, is not an accurate representation of the manga.

Kaido's top commander is not being stronger than WB's if all we have to go by is that WB's was able to hold off said commander and his rival to the point of being exhausted before he ran out of stamina in the end of the eventual 1 vs 1. All things being equal, which isn't the case here, one would still logically assume that they are at best equals. With what we know about the WBP, Marco and the fight with King & Queen logic wouldn't dictate that King > Marco.

Marco vs King and Queen was like a Katakuri vs Big Mom: Katakuri would "clown" Big Mom for a while until he gets too tired to continue and then Big Mom would beat him with no difficulty.
Um no it isn't. An funny enough Marco tried it with Big Mom and she grabbed him and he was in danger after he conveniently stopped 1 of her moves due to his special fire. Big Mom with no memories, no df and haki usage and the mind of a kid was playing with Zoan Queen. Oda actually gave us examples of your hypothesis being wrong.



Being "stronger" is not easy to define when speaking about characters on the same tier, and it's even harder with characters who possess very specific talents like Marco, but if we define it by "who would win 1vs1 fair duel", Marco is very likely to lose due to bad compatibility.


You need to see Marco at full health 1 vs 1 to actually claim that though. He, unlike King, has portrayal and hype from Big Mom & the databooks and even his feats like holding off King and Queen and going between them for a while while which exhausted him. Why is the burden of proof with Marco? If King was holding off Marco and Jozu for a while and exhausted before King ran out of stamina and lost you wouldn't be saying Marco > King.

So yeah they can be on the same tier and general level but saying King > Marco makes less sense than Marco > King given that Marco amazed King & Queen, is hyped as too good for the alliance by Big Mom, faced an admiral and is hyped as fighting on their level, was able to hold off King and Queen together and was the YC1 of 'the strongest pirate crew' under 'the strongest pirate'.

The thing is though, you are claiming that him having regeneration automatically means that he can't damage people 'on the same tier' who you say have better attack prowess but that's not even hinted in the manga. This is even made worse when we remember that both of them have armament and observation AND Marco's flames likely have an advantage over King's. So what you're saying is that you think Marco, who is also hyped as fighting on par with an admiral, can't significantly damage King?

Marco would actually have the advantage given everything we know which further supports that the outcome wasn't an accurate representation of Marco vs King due to the aforementioned circumstances. Marco being strong against fire and having regeneration are advantages, NOT disadvantages against King, a fire user and Kaido's top commander.

On top of everything that has already been said about the matchup on this thread, I'll add something new: we haven't even seen all of King yet, but we have seen all of Marco. We still haven't seen King's limits or even his hybrid form. We didn't even learn that he has actual pyrokinesis or anything about his brawler fighting style until after the Marco encounter. His most basic fighting characteristics and he didn't show them off against Marco, so we haven't seen anything about him yet other than how tanky he is. So tanky that Marco hasn't dealt any damage to him on more than 20 chapters (by your own counting) despite Marco attacking him relentlessly. Despite the regeneration disadvantage, everything indicates King is superior in a 1vs1, which is also fitting for the nature of Kaido's crew.
Marco was exhausted before it was a 1 vs 1 and did you just claim that King was uninjured fighting Marco? Lmao! So you're claiming that Marco dealt no damage when he was hitting him even on panel?

Marco has other virtues and is just mismatched. On a battlefield, they'd be equally fearful, but not 1vs1.
No proof lol and portrayal isn't helping. Funny enough, even his Zoan was holding both of theirs back simultaneously and he was kicking King around when both were not using their DF in the moment.


Lol you haven't seen Marco 1 vs 1 anyone at full power yet so for you to say that Marco showed everything already but King hasn't is inaccurate.
 
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Nie Li

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Marco was exhausted before it was a 1 vs 1 and did you just claim that King was uninjured fighting Marco? Lmao! So you're claiming that Marco dealt no damage when he was hitting him even on panel?
Yes. Not "just": I have been repeating so for days. King is on another level regarding his tankiness and endurance. I also saw Kid and Law hitting Kaido on panel and they didn't injure him. This is ironic considering how you like to downplay Zoro's Asura slash on Kaido but apparently Marco's unexistent damage to King is significant to you.

You're quoting a post in which I was only saying people have different opinions and validating your right to interpreting things differently (even though I don't share your opinion at all), so I won't entertain it more than this, especially when you're still resorting to direspectful ad hominems. Ah, but I love how suddenly you're using things like "The Strongest Pirate" title as a point.
 

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Yes. Not "just": I have been repeating so for days. King is on another level regarding his tankiness and endurance. I also saw Kid and Law hitting Kaido on panel and they didn't injure him. This is ironic considering how you like to downplay Zoro's Asura slash on Kaido but apparently Marco's unexistent damage to King is significant to you.

You're quoting a post in which I was only saying people have different opinions and validating your right to interpreting things differently (even though I don't share your opinion at all), so I won't entertain it more than this, especially when you're still resorting to direspectful ad hominems. Ah, but I love how suddenly you're using things like "The Strongest Pirate" title as a point.
Counter point
Neither king or queen have really damaged Marco either
He’s tired tho

he however did overpower both of them even if briefly
 

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At the present moment I rank Marco slightly above King. As both were not going 100% when fighting each other. Marco was handling both King and Queen for awhile, if King > Marco then Marco would have had a harder time against them.

For awhile I always thought the 3 Sweet Commanders were weaker to their Beasts counterparts, simply because they had lower bounties and that Luffy defeated 2 of them first before we were introduced to all of the the All Stars. Usually by Shonen logic, villains introduced/defeated earlier are weaker than the ones introduced later, usually. Also because Jack was able to man handle 2 of the minks for 5 days with no rest, though we still dont know where to rank the Mink leaders compared to the rest of OP powerful characters. Jack also went and sank 2 of the 4 ships to rescue Joker from 1 admiral, 2-3 Vice Admirals and 1 former Fleet Admiral.
Picture that, Jack the weakest of the All Stars, not fearing that whole entourage of marines and still surviving. But now Jack has been reduced to what he is now. Oda made his introduction so badass at that time, that it gave me goosebumps to find out how strong the rest of the Yonko Commanders would be from all the crews.
 

M3J

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is it possible to rank Marco based on what little we've seen? I mean, Marco's fruit gives him the ability to heal from injuries as long as he has stamina, so he could be weaker but still last for a long time. Hell, he could easily take out King and Queen but refuse to because he thinks it's the Worst Generation's job, especially as the successor generation.
 

Lord Traffy Law

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At the present moment I rank Marco slightly above King. As both were not going 100% when fighting each other. Marco was handling both King and Queen for awhile, if King > Marco then Marco would have had a harder time against them.

For awhile I always thought the 3 Sweet Commanders were weaker to their Beasts counterparts, simply because they had lower bounties and that Luffy defeated 2 of them first before we were introduced to all of the the All Stars. Usually by Shonen logic, villains introduced/defeated earlier are weaker than the ones introduced later, usually. Also because Jack was able to man handle 2 of the minks for 5 days with no rest, though we still dont know where to rank the Mink leaders compared to the rest of OP powerful characters. Jack also went and sank 2 of the 4 ships to rescue Joker from 1 admiral, 2-3 Vice Admirals and 1 former Fleet Admiral.
Picture that, Jack the weakest of the All Stars, not fearing that whole entourage of marines and still surviving. But now Jack has been reduced to what he is now. Oda made his introduction so badass at that time, that it gave me goosebumps to find out how strong the rest of the Yonko Commanders would be from all the crews.
Again bounties give a decent idea of range but it captures in exploits and how actually destructive you are
Big mum and kaido are around double of Blackbeard bounty , are they twice as strong as him individually , I doubt it , they have a 300 million over shanks , are they both that much stronger than him? They might not even be
 

Nie Li

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Counter point
Neither king or queen have really damaged Marco either
He’s tired tho

he however did overpower both of them even if briefly
Counter point.

That's Marco's DF power: he can't be injured because he instantly regenerates any injure he gets: nobody can really injure him until he runs out of stamina (or he gets cuffed with kairoseki). However, he was getting injured and regenerating constantly. Every slash from King that went through his body of wings was indeed an injury that he regenerated on the spot, not a logia dodge. On top of that: in some panels he was shown with some bleeding on his head and body, showing that offscreen he was also getting some pummeling from King that was left offscreen to not spoil King's fighting style before his real fight.

The fact that Marco got tired before he dealt damage to King is what (to me) means that, sure, Marco would last a long time against King because of his DF, but while we have met the limits of his DF, Marco failed at surpassing King's endurance with his attack power.

That he had to regenerate attacks from Queen and spent some energy stopping the virus is a valid point to say Marco would have lasted longer on a real 1vs1, but his attack power shouldn't have changed in that scenario.

is it possible to rank Marco based on what little we've seen? I mean, Marco's fruit gives him the ability to heal from injuries as long as he has stamina, so he could be weaker but still last for a long time. Hell, he could easily take out King and Queen but refuse to because he thinks it's the Worst Generation's job, especially as the successor generation.
I mentioned that possibility in one of my earlier posts but I discarded the idea because initially Marco wanted Zoro to go upstairs and face Kaido, literally telling him to not waste there and go to the stage where he should be, so if he was saving King and Queen for someone it wasn't for Zoro and Sanji and the only candidate left would have been Chopper.
 
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if King > Marco then Marco would have had a harder time against them.
Yeah

Marco wouldn't have been capable of keeping up with King alone... even with his regeneration, the difference would be visible.

But Marco overpowered King and Queen with kicks alone.

He just lost at a 1 vs 2, that's all.
 
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AmitDS

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Yes. Not "just": I have been repeating so for days. King is on another level regarding his tankiness and endurance. I also saw Kid and Law hitting Kaido on panel and they didn't injure him. This is ironic considering how you like to downplay Zoro's Asura slash on Kaido but apparently Marco's unexistent damage to King is significant to you.
The fact that you're comparing King's 'tankiness' to KAIDO'S is hilarious and says A LOT.
Oh no I downplayed Zoro's Asura slash because I said it's inferior to Oden's and isn't letting him one shot King. If only the manga could prove me wrong.

You're being purposefully obtuse with this false equivalence because we both know that Kidd and Law vs Kaido is totally different from King vs Marco. Where has it ever been shown or hinted that Marco didn't ever damage King or Queen? Please tell me this is not based on you not seeing wounds on King whose entire body is covered up with clothing. You're literally making stuff up just to prop up King & thus Zoro lol.
So not only are you hyping King as way stronger than he is, now you're going to claim he got no damage from Marco so when Zoro eventually beats him you can claim crap like 60% Zoro beat 100% King. Transparent as usual.


Btw Marco attacks with shockwaves as well and we literally see him hurting King and Queen AND handling King's pyrokinesis.







You're quoting a post in which I was only saying people have different opinions and validating your right to interpreting things differently (even though I don't share your opinion at all), so I won't entertain it more than this, especially when you're still resorting to direspectful ad hominems. Ah, but I love how suddenly you're using things like "The Strongest Pirate" title as a point.
Yeah I'll suddenly use 'strongest pirate' because now you're suddenly using 'Marco never damaged King' and trying to control and twist the narrative. PRE COPING as I say. I'll use strongest pirate since everyone had no problem using it to diminish Shanks, Big Mom and Kaido for years so keep that same energy when it links back to Zoro's opponent.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but claiming them as fact when logic dictates otherwise is a whole other issue and you know that. This is disingenuous so I'll say it again. King had help to exhaust Marco before they were fighting 1 vs 1 so what makes you think Marco < King?

Anyways I'm over this topic. You'll get a Zoro extreme diff and you'll love it I'm sure. Not against Marco though, just King. Lol. Be satisfied with this.
 
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Nie Li

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The fact that you're comparing King's 'tankiness' to KAIDO'S is hilarious and says A LOT.
I compared the tankiness relative to their respective opponents, not their raw stats, which would be obvious if you cared about this conversation at all.

The rest of your post is just putting more words in my mouth, more ad hominems and more calling me names like "obtuse" (I'm sure you'll later complain about how toxic Zoro fans are) for disagreeing with you, but there are still a couple things to address in there.

Oh no I downplayed Zoro's Asura slash because I said it's inferior to Oden's and isn't letting him one shot King. If only the manga could prove me wrong.
Yes, that is downplaying, not just the slash, but the damage it dealt, while you overplay Marco's.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but claiming them as fact when logic dictates otherwise is a whole other issue and you know that. This is disingenuous so I'll say it again. King had help to exhaust Marco before they were fighting 1 vs 1 so what makes you think Marco < King?
1- You're the only one acting like his opinions are facts. I have not.

2- You're asking me a question I have already answered to many times in this thread. I have repeatedly gone over about the context of Marco's fight and I have repeatedly acknowledged that Marco has never fought King 1vs1. If you want to ignore any point I make and keep focusing on "LoL you just want to wank Zoro" that's on you. Makes it seem like you can only debate with people you agree with, which isn't really debating.

Yeah I'll suddenly use 'strongest pirate' because now you're suddenly using 'Marco never damaged King' and trying to control and twist the narrative. PRE COPING as I say. I'll use strongest pirate since everyone had no problem using it to diminish Shanks, Big Mom and Kaido for years so keep that same energy when it links back to Zoro's opponent.
"Keep that same energy". Either you acknowledge titles or you don't, you can't just be selective of which count and which don't, but anyway:
1- I don't know what other people had to say about that topic. That wasn't me.
2- That was Whitebeard's title, anyway, it doesn't connect to Marco.

Btw Marco attacks with shockwaves as well and we literally see him hurting King and Queen AND handling King's pyrokinesis.





1- What are you on about? Marco doesn't attack with shockwaves.
2- He got human King to bleed lightly from the mouth (only relevant page to the discussion and surely only page you could find?). Sanji and Chopper made Queen bleed with a single hit each. Do you believe Sanji's kick or Chopper's slap brought Queen down from "100%"? By how much? Do you believe Queen is now at 20% from that?

This connects to the two examples I brought up in my previous post:
1- The Kaido fight.
Luffy made human Kaido bleed slightly from the mouth with his Red Roc attack. How lower from 100% do you believe Kaido is now? He sure took a nice beating of much stronger blows and is still fine.
Queen has made a straight point for the readers to say what makes the Calamities the Calamities is their exceptional tankiness, that's what makes them Kaido's strongest men and that's why Jack, the weakest of the three, has as solid feats as he does: because of his endurance.
Marco had more than 20 chapters to freely pummel King, who could do nothing to defend himself from an immortal man that just phases through any lethal attack. Yes, Big Mom can be stalled by Marco just as easily, which is why she chose to avoid fighting him and go straight to Kaido (not because she was intimidated by him, obviously, but she knew how long it takes to finish him off).

I acknowledge Marco had the speed advantage, but his strength was lacking if this is all the "damage" he achieved in all those chapters, and the stamina he spent in other things isn't a excuse for a lack of firepower.

And this is an ancient zoan we're talking about, hybrid King will be more resilient and recuperate from damage at least as well as Jack does.

So yes, I can say Marco's damage to King is 100% irrelevant.

2- Your opinion on Zoro's Asura.
Leaving your headcanon comparison to Oden's slash out of it: to what % do you think that slash took Kaido down to? You believe King's light bleeding in base form is something to consider. So do tell me, how much did Zoro weaken Kaido for Luffy with an open wound on the chest that'll leave a scar?

Anyways I'm over this topic. You'll get a Zoro extreme diff and you'll love it I'm sure. Not against Marco though, just King. Lol. Be satisfied with this.
"Satisfied"? I'm very happy Zoro is fighting King instead of Marco. It's a much more entertaining opponent for him and that's not because of King being stronger, but because it's more entertaining to see Zoro duke it out with a physically overpowered guy than just see Zoro cut fire for the nth time (I already got bored of that in the Kaido fight) and Marco ignoring Zoro's slashes for an hour until he gets tired.
 

LaGOAT

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Kaido and his crew best Attribute is their endurance/durability. It seems they take damage pretty well
 

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Kaido and his crew best Attribute is their endurance/durability. It seems they take damage pretty well
Jack king queen are all tanky as hell same as kaido

big mum pirates all have incredible versatility and application and creativity of their fruits
 

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Kaido and his crew best Attribute is their endurance/durability. It seems they take damage pretty well
Can't you say that about any high/top tier? I can't think of one who isn't an endurance/durable monster. Even weak Whitebeard needs to tank countless hits before finally succumbing to his wounds
 

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Can't you say that about any high/top tier? I can't think of one who isn't an endurance/durable monster. Even weak Whitebeard needs to tank countless hits before finally succumbing to his wounds
Kata and Cracker ?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Seeing how easily big mum with no homies dealt with queen , kaido would deal with Jack and queen very very quick , and seeing how kaido one shot gear 4 luffy and took no damage , all 3 calamities would get defeated pretty quickly imo, kaido defeats all 3 mid diff really
I mean Marco alone pushed Kaido's equal Big Mom to High Diff
 
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