Chapter Tower of God Chapter 517 Spoilers & Discussion

[Jyu viole grace]

 

[Jyu viole grace]

English translated chapter----------

Tower Of God Chapter 517 - Alpha Scans

Bam, who was alone all his life has entered the tower to chase after his only friend, Rachel, but how will he survive without having any special strength or power?“What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever...

alpha-scans.org

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

Maschenny isn't picking a side; she is her own side. Baam is not at a level, where he can side with anyone (including her).

You don't need to be on the level of the Family Heads to be able to play the game. We don't actually know what the requirements to play are. But Maschenny is clearly participating in the game.

Once again, if we don't know, then what you say is speculative.

If she didn't have Jinsung hostage, Baam wouldn't be at the Nest.

If Baam isn't at the nest, she'd be looking for an alliance with him because he's the only one that can get her what she wants.

What does "someone like Maschenny" mean? And well, Jinsung, Baam and Baam's allies in FUG have been used as pawns by Maschenny. So whatever you think of her, she has in fact made pawns of them.

Someone like Maschenny means.... Someone like Maschenny.


Now Maschenny is a schemer, the only reason her schemes have worked is because she planned around the heavy hitters - Z and LPB. Those are the people worthy of using Fug as pawns. Mas simply lacks the power that's why Fug wouldn't bother to pay any attention to her either. That's why Fug has the requirements to be a player in the game unlike Mas who is a fake player.

How is it limited. She's been keenly observing Baam throughout the Nest.

It is limited because she is also a character in the story and we have seen instances of characters being outright wrong.

 

[kkck]

I don't know about Mas' power level, but I'm sure most replies in these last chapters are about her.

I wonder what's like inside the suspendium crystal, is it big, bigger from the inside than the outside appearance? Would time pass normally or slowed/accelerated? Is it empty beyond the item Mas want or filled with monsters to defend it? Maybe there's an ecosystem inside? Do you think Baam will finally train/test the 2nd thorn for its space manipulation power? Maybe we'll get some Baam interacting with other members of his group, will he still aggressive towards Vicente, how Aria feels about Baam, Rak not being the comic relief force once. Man next chapter can't come soon enough

I think there are two scenarios here: The first is a hidden floor type deal. The other is that the structure is simply massive enough to be the prison itself. It's certainly massive enough to contain multiple high ranker fights duking it out at full power.

Within that the question is what is inside... Originally I thought that things within would be simply frozen inside but that kinda ends the story. So... the alternative to that is any scenario where the gang is free to move around. I doubt it will turn out to be an empty void where the gang just floats around. Imagine jinsung being dumped there and he falls face down on the ground next to whatever it is mascheny wants. That's funny, but also anticlimactic. So... to me it makes sense that within the suspendium there will be whatever force manages zahard's storage room. Whatever is inside probably can't be absurdly big like the hidden floor was as for the sake of plot whatever happens within the structure has to be resolved within the timeframe of the war.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Nope. She needed Baam to fight Kallavan.

Baam fighting Kallavan to avenge Jinsung and realising how weak he was is the reason that Baam asked Evankhell to train him, that Baam trained so hard over the past 2 years, that Baam went to Dowon's Wall and that Baam stormed the Nest.

Kallavan as Baam's nemesis is something that Maschenny orchestrated and used to drive Baam's growth.

Baam is only just now learning of Maschenny's existence.

Maschenny kidnapping Jinsung without any of the Kallavan stuff wouldn't have been as effective. Again, Baam doesn't even know WHO Maschenny is. She'd just be a faceless enemy that was holding his master captive.

Baam wasn't just trying to rescue Jinsung, he genuinely thought that his master was dead and sought to avenge him and so hunted down Kallavan.

There's not much to say other than this just seems like your opinion. Mas had no way to know that Baam would be trained by EVK specifically for instance. She just suspected, correctly, Baam would chase the captors of his master. Whatever face that is - Kallavan or otherwise. She could have made Baam chase her directly, such as Itachi with Sasuke. Kallavan was merely a placeholder means to an ends for someone that largely doesn't like to get her nails dirty. It's a bit silly to say that's the ONLY way she could have motivated Baam - she could have just as likely taken Jinsung hostage and send a ransom note to his pocket or shown her face directly. She could have got him to go to the Wall or Nest or whatever. She could have Aizen'd the situation up and made Ichigo get experience and training in any number of ways, including by aiming for her directly. There's nothing to say otherwise.

You're also glossing over the elephant in the room in your equation - she pointedly says it would have been hard to pierce Jinsung any other way. She made reference to NEEDING Jinsung to be softened up, and we see how that played out by allowing Kallavan to do the heavy lifting. What we don't know is if she could have done as much herself. I admit I don't know, while you claim to know something that you can't possibly know. Only one of us is attempting to be objective about this. But, it's cool, I know how you feel about Mas. Keep in mind as you read the next part that I'm a much bigger, idk 'stan' to use your vernacular of Jinsung than the cardboard that is Kallavan, but readily admit that it looks like Jinsung couldn't perform against the later.

Maschenny backstabbed Jinsung as he was about to attack Kallavan.

Oh, and with what attack would that be (SIU never says he even had one btw)? Flailing Kallavan with his now-shredded arm pieces? Martial artists are what kind of fighters... hand-to-hand, no? Jinsung was out of options and simply screaming, there was no attack there. If you even paid attention to his thoughts he was concerned about not having the chance to show Baam his ace-up-his-sleeve move. i.e., he was concerned he was about to die. His mentality was not 'Oh, I totes got this' but rather the opposite. Kallavan, OTOH, was still confident in winning after tanking Jinsung's final attempt (again, read Jinsung's thoughts on the matter), and his attitude/words were backed up by his actions.

SIU said that the heavens were smiling on Kallavan with Maschenny showing up.

Just let me get this straight - Kallavan was NOT killed as Jinsung thought he was going to do. So, Jinsung was wrong in using final getsuga tensho being fatal to Kallavan - and that benefit had nothing to do with Mas but with Kallavan himself. THEN, Kallavan blew past Jinsung's now-depleted (keep in mind Jinsung was battered and beaten even prior to their final confrontation, he could not counter EoB release in the slightest) defenses and EASILY bested Jinsung in speed, strength and durability by grabbing what he literally describes as Jinsung's weapons - his arms, and EASILY destroying them with a mere squeeze (showing his Ha-enforcement was nothing compared to Kallavan's strength). Kallavan was well-aware of Jinsung's lethality at this point and pointedly took that away from him for good in that battle. IF Jinsung was going to attack again, and we don't even know he could do the same crouching-tiger/hidden-dragon move as he looked totally gassed, he missed the opportunity (showing incompetence at the least) - and that's a big IF. After losing his arms, he's effectively neutralized. All he could manage was a final RFC via his feet - which was impressive but deals ZERO DAMAGE - before collapsing. Kallavan, OTOH, went on to fly full-speed to Baam and take on the likes of EVK/Baam/Yuri/Karaka all at once, not even being stopped by EVK's flames or slowed down in chasing Baam. This is right on the heels of besting Jinsung. Jinsung could only face-plant. IOW, Jinsung was spent while Kallavan had plenty left in the tank.

So, THAT person had the heaven's smiling on him with Mas' (completely unnecessary) intervention? LOL, SIU often proves he's a clown and this is one example. The fight, again, speaks for itself. Not SIU's meanderings after the fact that contradict entirely what we just read. Kallavan was clearly fine on his own. Mas HAD to step in or her prey and thus plan to use Jinsung would be squashed into a further bloody pulp.

The narrative that Maschenny was intervening solely to save Jinsung's life there is not only a contradiction of what happened in the manga,

Not in the slightest. Not per how things played out (which is all that really matters), and not per Jinsung's thoughts, nor Kallavan's feats after the fact, nor in what happened to Jinsung's biggest asset, his arms. It would be like White having his souls/swords taken from him and being bloodied with a hole in his chest. He's done!

it's a contradiction of what the author said as well.

From an author that is inconsistent and often writes comments that are counter to what we see with our apparently lying eyes, this means absolutely nothing. If his blog contradicts his works, then I'm going with his actual works. It makes no sense at all to say his blog is more important than the actual story in discussing, you know, the story.

The age argument is nonsense.

Nyet. It is established fact from the story. And applicable across the board to some level or another when talking about comparing one ranker to another. It's one consideration, not the be-all, end-all... but still very applicable.

• Enne Zahard is < 1/10th of Maschenny's age.

Enne is full-blood irregular. Apples to oranges.

• Kallavan is even younger than Maschenny.

Kallavan *inherited* countless thousands of years of strength and fighting ability by EoB. Apples to oranges.

• Adori is around Maschenny's age or even younger.

Adori has been noted as a once-in-a-lifetime example. She's, again, an exception - not the rule. Much ado was made about how Adori is an exception. Further, there's probably more than meets the eye with her. Many here, myself included, think she got a double-dose of Zahard, or is a creation of sorts that supersedes the potential ability of a 'natural' princess. Her hair color being one possible hint, but certainly her feats and how rare of a performer she is. Now, maybe she's 100% natural (other than the Z-blood doping), but, again and though I repeat myself, she's an exception.

What you're not being honest about is you drop a small handful of exceptions and are arguing that the rule writ large that mostly applies to every ranker isn't in fact exactly that, a rule. Please compare apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, and be fair enough to concede that this 'rule' is generally applicable and applicable when making comparisons.

You're also underrating the effect of Zahard's blood.

I mean, I did address it specifically. Could you be overrating it? Princesses still have limits. Where does that limit sit in comparison to one of the tower's most ancient rankers in existence (particularly with 50% irregular blood)? How much of an addition does Z-blood add exactly, and is that across the board or case-by-case and thus variable? How do you quantify the additional strength it adds? You can't... no one can at this point.

Yuri is the most talented member of the Ha Family (ergo even more talented than Jinsung's mother and aunt).

Yuri is more talented than both pure-irregular-blooded twins? Not likely. More talented of her generation, maybe. Talent also not being equivalent to strength. A young girl gymnast might be more 'talented' than I am, most assuredly so in many ways. That doesn't mean she can dead-lift more, or that I can't kick in her tiny chest cavity. Words have a meaning after all.

Maschenny has way more Irregular blood (her mother appears to also be a daughter of Eduan) and she hails from the strongest Khun bloodline.

Mas has 25% as you point out being a grand-daughter of an irregular. Before Zahard. How much of a boost does the Z-blood add again I ask - there's no way to know. It doesn't displace her inherited potential, it adds to it. Strictly speaking, it is a boost. Let's say that's a double boost. That would make her roughly equivalent to a 50%-irregular-blooded individual, which is like Jinsung. Only, Jinsung is much older and that aging process adds to his strength beyond what Mas has aged to gaining. He'll forever have that head-start. Maybe it more than doubles her potential, but, again, how does that compare to being possibly tens of thousands of years older? There's no clear answer really.

 

[zoradante1]

Narrative basically calls maschenny as arrogant and later it says This wave(shows baam in panel) will swallow you arrogant(maschenny panel) much quicker(nest arc) than you think. I don't think someone needs to be super clever to understand baam will put maschenny in her place on nest arc not later arcs considering it says "much quicker".

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

We haven't been shown anything. We don't know who she's working with, what sort of faction she belongs to, etc.

You're the one speaking in absolute terms

We've been show a bit of how powerful and influential Fug is. We know nothing about Mas faction. You're the one trying to say they are stronger than Fug.

No, I don't say that Jinsung was wrong to call her a little water snake; I point out that Jinsung himself admits he was mistaken about her:

...till he starts to think otherwise. Characters dont always have the full perspective on the situation except for when they are omniscient. The closest thing to that we have seen are irregulars.
Instead of making a point on what a character thinks, why not make one on real events that have been shown.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I basically 100% agree with what you said. Soon enough the low top 100 ballpark will have more than 100 characters lol.

I'd also argue that characters like HJ and Maschenny are difficult to scale/rank because of particularities of their skillset. HJ has that OP floral butterfly and Maschenny has Redan. They're some type of "equalizers". It seems that if HJ lands Tiger and Dragon gate on any opponent of his ballpark said individual would get exploded in half (barring Kallatank). As the cons for this technique it's hard to land because you need to make or almost make physical contact with your opponent (opening yourself to potentially deadly damage) and there's the "you'll get f*cked up by this technique if you fail to use it properly". Redan will dramatically boost your strength for a limited time, then after that you're basically done/will get killed by some random ranker much below you. But you get to hit much higher than you normally would, so it's a draw if you're able to kill your opponent using it. You can/will die to anyone later on, but your hypothetical opponent already died anyway. I think of it as the Might Guy effect (Naruto). You can't win, but you can draw (Guy activating 8th portal, defeating basically anyone, then dying because of the collateral effects)

Good points. Another way of seeing it is one 'type' sucks when compared to another - such as fire being weaker than water generally speaking, but stronger against wind (if we use elemental powers for example).

So, a fire type could be 'stronger' than a water type, and thus have a higher rank, say 70 to their 85 arbitrarily (using strength basis only and not influence), and yet still lose out because that's a horrible match-up for them. They essentially get a debuff putting them at -50 rank power equivalent (now, they're at ~120 fighting an 85). But, against that element only. Every other person in that discrepancy (15 point spread, again entirely arbitrary) can be bested.

Weapons, age, experience, temp buffs, environmental factors, and intellect (throw sand in their eyes!) also playing into the equation, among other factors.

But that top 100 fire-type would probably still win out against a lower top 300 water type.

And so on and so on.




STILL, it would be nice to know a rough actual ranking between the 300 characters shoe-horned into the top 100...

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

Hello everyone
I wonder why the Ari family did not try to eliminate Baam if their goal is to keep the peace
And what is wrong with Mas here?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Shhhh, if you mention Maschenny three times one time in a mirror anywhere, @Cinera will appear and force you to simp for her.

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

Or how she feigned ignorance about Lyborick's plan to blow up the 4th Army Corps Flagship.


Maschenny is an unrepentant liar. Maschenny saying that she actually tried to harm Jinsung doesn't mean that she did.

Same way she could be lying about Baam not being strong or influential enough to take sides.

We have her calling him a beast in one panel then a l-l-l-little child in the next. You need to realize that what a character says is not always reliable.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 15, 2021 ---

Shhhh, if you mention Maschenny three times one time in a mirror anywhere, @Cinera will appear and force you to simp for her.

But seriously, look at her, who wouldn't want to simp for her?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Same way she could be lying about Baam not being strong or influential enough to take sides.

We have her calling him a beast in one panel then a l-l-l-little child in the next. You need to realize that what a character says is not always reliable.

Particularly from a liar, admittedly a liar. Who knows what is for manipulation and what is the truth out of her mouth? Another thing about sneks - they are known to be deceivers in many cultures, and she's linked to them even by Jinsung's words.

Hell, she JUST told Jinsung she'd seal him, and didn't. She lied for appearances' sake in front of the royal guard to manipulate the situation, and Jinsung... resulting in their deaths. This is the second time she's done that to them.

She's a particularly bad example of someone you can't take their word for shit.

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

Particularly from a liar, admittedly a liar. Who knows what is for manipulation and what is the truth out of her mouth? Another thing about sneks - they are known to be deceivers in many cultures, and she's linked to them even by Jinsung's words.

Hell, she JUST told Jinsung she'd seal him, and didn't. She lied for appearances' sake in front of the royal guard to manipulate the situation, and Jinsung... resulting in their deaths. This is the second time she's done that to them.

She's a particularly bad example of someone you can't take their word for shit.

You know what's worse than that? Being a liar and thinking you know more than you actually do.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

You know what's worse than that, being a liar and thinking you know more than you actually do.

She's the textbook example of that - getting more than she bargained for. Like on the data floor when she technically got what she wanted - fighting Zahard - but it resulted in her death.

Now, she's playing with powers and ancient beings beyond her scope. Play with fire, get burned.

 

[PlotArmouredTitan]

Narrative basically calls maschenny as arrogant and later it says This wave(shows baam in panel) will swallow you arrogant(maschenny panel) much quicker(nest arc) than you think. I don't think someone needs to be super clever to understand baam will put maschenny in her place on nest arc not later arcs considering it says "much quicker".

I hope Baam doesn't put her in her place. Baam is too nice for her.

What I hope is that Z is sitting wherever he is holding on to his popcorn watching his little girl run around in circles.

She needs to get a taste of what Khell had.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I hope Baam doesn't put her in her place. Baam is too nice for her.

What I hope is that Z is sitting wherever he is holding on to his popcorn watching his little girl run around in circles.

She needs to get a taste of what Khell had.

Good call. I'd hate to have 'dark change' Baam punish her. The thought of how mean that sternly-written letter would be is terrifying.

 

[salo14419]

Gotta love the:
Maschenny? She lies, she's a compulsive liar. She called Baam a beast? Probably a lie. Admitted she barely scratched Jinsung even after going for real? Still a lie.

What? About calling Baam group (especially Baam even if she was answering Raak outburst) weak? That's 100% the truth. Mas never lies and she has the perfect judgment, she never makes any mistake.
She meant that because she is fully aware of how strong Baam is even if we, the readers, having the full picture don't know the scope of his powers yet (even more now that he got boosted with White's power)
She probably saw White vs Baam even when the one in charge of the game couldn't and she had a special item that allows her to measure the power level of Irregulars to make such claims.

Again, contradictory remarks changing every now and then to fit the narrative that is mostly headcannon is silly.

 

[PGT]

Good points. Another way of seeing it is one 'type' sucks when compared to another - such as fire being weaker than water generally speaking, but stronger against wind (if we use elemental powers for example).

So, a fire type could be 'stronger' than a water type, and thus have a higher rank, say 70 to their 85 arbitrarily (using strength basis only and not influence), and yet still lose out because that's a horrible match-up for them. They essentially get a debuff putting them at -50 rank power equivalent (now, they're at ~120 fighting an 85). But, against that element only. Every other person in that discrepancy (15 point spread, again entirely arbitrary) can be bested.

Weapons, age, experience, temp buffs, environmental factors, and intellect (throw sand in their eyes!) also playing into the equation, among other factors.

But that top 100 fire-type would probably still win out against a lower top 300 water type.

And so on and so on.




STILL, it would be nice to know a rough actual ranking between the 300 characters shoe-horned into the top 100...

Yh, that's a nice way to look at it. Your example reminded me of EVK and that poo flinging LPB lol. It effectively counters fire based powers, it's just that they aren't anywhere nearly on the same level. You can't expect to put out a sun by just throwing magic poop against it lol

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Yh, that's a nice way to look at it. Your example reminded me of EVK and that poo flinging LPB lol. It effectively counters fire based powers, it's just that they aren't anywhere nearly on the same level. You can't expect to put out a sun by just throwing magic poop against it lol

A poo-flinging monkey (again, reserving further comment here...) was truly a low point in the series.

I still have embarrassment by proxy for SIU.

 

[O_n_Sly]

So Dowon and Cha believe they killed a son of LPB. But Dowon could not find any records of the feat! What if the son suffered a fatal injury/curse/spell and is frozen in suspendium waiting for a vessel to be prepared for him!?Also what if Yama is supposed to be that vessel!?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

So Dowon and Cha believe they killed a son of LPB. But Dowon could not find any records of the feat! What if the son suffered a fatal injury/curse/spell and is frozen in suspendium waiting for a vessel to be prepared for him!?Also what if Yama is supposed to be that vessel!?

The context is that Dowon is commenting on how their feats were covered up. It's propaganda she was remarking about. The victor writes the history.

I'd think she knows if she killed someone or not.

LPB has enough children - there are plenty left over for us to need one what was already killed off to be back. The FH already has more than enough reason to kill anyone related to Dowon, Cha, FUG, or Baam.

 

[O_n_Sly]

He was clearly trying to create some type of powerful alpha being for some important purpose!