And? Who says a magic needs to be "the same"? Azuma's magic is literally trees, but he uses it to nuke people with explosions. "Same" Don't matter to Mashima. Wendy's magic is sky, Milky Way is sky. If you wanna claim sky is air, go right ahead, but that means Milky Way is air too.
"he is powerful, just not unstoppable in that state" Yet can't break Gray's boat according to you. Uhuh, uhuh, dumb.
Being too powerful for Fairy Sphere is literally the most impressive feat in the original manga. Fairy Tail were literally shitting their pants because of it. Fairy Tail, after witnessing first hand Acno's power, thought Fairy Sphere would stop him.... and they were wrong. Why? Because Acno was too powerful in that state and yet also according to you, so weak he can't break a boat from Gray. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Correction, his real power comes from the magic in the earth, trees are what allows the energy to be channeled, dont’t know what Azuma has to do with this but I was referring “the same” to your other point, not the before, anyway, Milky Way is not air magic, just part of sky magic. Can’t break it in time to get free as he was too weak to call on his strength, yet incomplete sphere, not the most impressive, wrong, because they don’t have enough power to complete the spell As Lucy stated. You do realize that Gray is weaker than Acno right? Just because Acno can’t call his full strength then don’t mean Gray can harm his natural durability.
Correction, his real power comes from the magic in the earth, trees are what allows the energy to be channeled, dont’t know what Azuma has to do with this but I was referring “the same” to your other point, not the before, anyway, Milky Way is not air magic, just part of sky magic. Can’t break it in time to get free as he was too weak to call on his strength, yet incomplete sphere, not the most impressive, wrong, because they don’t have enough power to complete the spell As Lucy stated. You do realize that Gray is weaker than Acno right? Just because Acno can’t call his full strength then don’t mean Gray can harm his natural durability.
Then it just comes down to the same point. Do I listen to Mashima after he's stated over and over again that Wendy's magic is Sky? Or do I listen to you tell me his definitions are wrong? Hmmmm.... sorry, I'm sticking with Mashima. It's his manga, he can bend definitions as far as he wants. He can make Law magic mean knowledge if he wants, he can make air magic summons souls, he could even call a magic Ice magic and literally make it dream magic.... Oh.... wait.... he actually did that too.... But yeah, dumb or not, I'm sticking with Mashima. Milky Way, Healing, Enchants, Air, it's all Sky magic, or air magic, call it whatever you want, I'll just continue calling it what Mashima calls it.
Yeah, same with this. Do I believe you when you say Fairy Sphere was incomplete and thus breaking it isn't impressive? Or do I believe Mashima when he says Acno is sooooo powerful for breaking Fairy Sphere, despite knowing exactly how complete/incomplete Fairy Sphere is infinitely better than you do? Sorry pal, I'm sticking with Mashima.
Then it just comes down to the same point. Do I listen to Mashima after he's stated over and over again that Wendy's magic is Sky? Or do I listen to you tell me his definitions are wrong? Hmmmm.... sorry, I'm sticking with Mashima. It's his manga, he can bend definitions as far as he wants. He can make Law magic mean knowledge if he wants, he can make air magic summons souls, he could even call a magic Ice magic and literally make it dream magic.... Oh.... wait.... he actually did that too.... But yeah, dumb or not, I'm sticking with Mashima. Milky Way, Healing, Enchants, Air, it's all Sky magic, or air magic, call it whatever you want, I'll just continue calling it what Mashima calls it.
Yeah, same with this. Do I believe you when you say Fairy Sphere was incomplete and thus breaking it isn't impressive? Or do I believe Mashima when he says Acno is sooooo powerful for breaking Fairy Sphere, despite knowing exactly how complete/incomplete Fairy Sphere is infinitely better than you do? Sorry pal, I'm sticking with Mashima.
Well since you listen to Hiro who stated that she uses air, that is okay too, so by that definition the ground can summon spirits then so ground is the same as sky? He did not make Ice Magic Dream magic. There you go, the separation of those four are part of Sky magic, each distinct on their own, plus their distinct colors should have given it away. I would be more impressed if the FS was actually complete when it breaks, that is the difference, you can believe what you want, it still stopped him when he has MS once completed.
Nope, Lost magic does have side. Affects as the series continuously states, it is not just ultear, even dragons with how DS magic works, not that we know of for Kain, Your assumption is not valid since Rustyrose stated there is, Like Dragon Slayer, God Slayer would be the same, not that we know of for Malguilty sense, which is wasn’t before, so then it could not be lost since it was not long ago, since it could be carried on to recent times. People have called it healing arts of Sky Magic or healing magic multiple times which only shows a distinction. Demons do heal including Tempester’s healing factor and Mard Geer, lost to history means it would be considered sometime has past. Irene can since it is her magic that Wendy is using, Wendy even states this that it belongs to her, there is no evidence that their own magic power switches, it is still her spell so Irene did use it through Wendy, I have proven it, you have to prove that their magics do switch to each other. Gray would say that under normal circumstances and yet it did not happen, you have not provided an image of him freezing, that is not what was said, it said that it is cold enough to freeze, not eventually freeze which the latter would mean that it was not cold enough, he said but which is a counter to that point, not a resolution to the statement on what to do, so Gray said that because he has ice immunity and yet Natsu was frozen before said snow storm happened, and better yet, Juvia’s water would be instantly frozen in such temperatures. Invel’s armor is hax since it bypasses his immunity, And it is called divine armor, which basically contradicts the type of ice it is. That is not how Slayer immunity works, the elements don’t harm them, but the hax still affects them, Blue Fire makes Natsu feel cold, Orange Fire is stinky to Natsu, God flames burn Natsu despite his immunity, enchantments harm Chelia, Ice Lock hacks Gray’s mind, Kamui freezes Gray regardless of his immunity. Again, called True-Ice and divine which contradicts what demonic is. That is my point, meaning and titles mean little here.
The only spell I can recall with Thunder is his Secret Arts technique. Well, it does surprise you at how strong or weak they are when you apply calcs.
Thunder Dragons Jaw, Roar etc. They’ve been shaking islands since Tenrou. Wahl’s computer told him the best solution to kill an already dying Laxus was a technique that wipes countries off the map. It goes along with the growing strength scale we’ve been seeing the entire series. It’s why their is such a large contention of battle board debaters who’ve had them ranked at continental and above since they started dropping big spells in Alvarez.
DE have been a thing since the very beginning of 100 YQ, and are still around after 2 DGs are down. They will be around until the end of the spinoff. Wanna bet?
I think we do read different mangas, because no way are you calling Kyria Erza's rival .Kyria got low diffed by Laxus whereas Erza fought him in an extreme diff fight. Everything in the Laxus vs Erza fight demonstrates that Kyria is almost nothing compared to those 2. Laxus lost little MP in his fight with Kyria so you can't use the excuse that he would've won by a far margin if he hadn't used his secret art against Kyria.
So whatever version you watched in your head that makes you feel justified speaking as though he didn’t have to fight an Erza lvl opponent, it wasn’t Fairy Tail. Cause in actual Fairy Tail, Kiria did a great job against Erza. She still hasn’t taken an actual full blown defeat from her, not like the definitive loss she took to Laxus. An she’s actually the first person to push her far enough to use that sword. Now yes, Laxus pushed Erza to reveal all of her trump cards, but we haven’t seen all of Kiria’s either, and he’s Laxus. Will she match up in the long run, hell no. Was she Erza’s rival for the start of this, hell yes. An she has proven to be equal to base Erza. An Laxus put them both down, within 5 minutes of each other.
What are you talking about? None of the other Spriggan scale to August and Irene. Only Larcade comes close. An Gildarts made him commit suicide after 1 attack. Gildarts will have grown over the last year just like every single other member of FT has, so that doesn’t suggest what your arguing in the slightest.
I agree u about the laxus>erza but what @sharkai is saying he beleive that Minerva + kaguya=jura becuase erza beating those two is Equivalent of laxus beating jura.
my thing is I dont think that way cause I think jura will still wash those 2 with less difficulty than erza did.
@sharkai how can u said that laxus is slightly stronger than erza but yet u don’t agree that laxus is precious arcs was proven stronger sounds like a contractions? Like are u saying that laxus vs erza finally made u beleive that laxus>Erza even tho it was always been proven is the past?
i dont pretend to know more than the information provided to us.
all we knew from previous time skip was laxus was far stronger than natsu. and erza was far stronger than natsu. everything else is basically fan projection.
featwise pre ts erza was clear superior to laxus, by reasonable amount. but laxus did perfrom against hades and jura. which gives him portrayal.
so i have a range, anything between laxus can high diff erza to erza can high diff laxus is possible. but since some portrayal favours laxus and huge laxus fanbase (cause herd mentality) i give slight edge to laxus. he beats erza. but loses to happy afterwards. this was my position since start of gmg arc. and it hasnt changed.
to give you another example. people claim jellal is the fastest character. i dont agree. there is nothing the manga that suggest it. yes, pre ts jellal is super fast compared to natsu, but so was racer. the rest becomes fan projection. building a house of cards, if you will.
What are you talking about? None of the other Spriggan scale to August and Irene. Only Larcade comes close. An Gildarts made him commit suicide after 1 attack. Gildarts will have grown over the last year just like every single other member of FT has, so that doesn’t suggest what your arguing in the slightest.
August: Obvious reasons
Irene: Obvious reasons
Larcade: R.I.P,Hunger and Pleasure GG
Dimaria: Timestop and Age scratch GG
God Serena: Gildarts stated that serena is a force to be reckoned with at his prime, so serena should be stronger then him
Brandish: Blows up gildarts organs
Bloodman: Macro + Max Pain + MBP+ Intang + soul absorbtion + 3rd seal = gildarts graveyard
Invel: Ice lock or Ice Shroud GG
Wall: Just like for mira, wall finds out gildarts weakness aka cana and makes one if not alot of his clones into cana or wall can just cancel gildarts magic with bane particle canceler (anti magic), now it depends if wall can hurt him or not, if wall has gas bombs then he wins if he doesn't then gildarts takes it eventually
Jacob: BFR GG
Thus meaning that gildarts only beats ajeel and neinhart and has a chance at beating wall, he gets stomped by the rest of them. LMAO GILDARTS NEVER MADE AUGUST COMMIT SUICIDE LOOOL august literally no sold his strongest attack without a damn scratch
i dont pretend to know more than the information provided to us.
all we knew from previous time skip was laxus was far stronger than natsu. and erza was far stronger than natsu. everything else is basically fan projection.
featwise pre ts erza was clear superior to laxus, by reasonable amount. but laxus did perfrom against hades and jura. which gives him portrayal.
so i have a range, anything between laxus can high diff erza to erza can high diff laxus is possible. but since some portrayal favours laxus and huge laxus fanbase (cause herd mentality) i give slight edge to laxus. he beats erza. but loses to happy afterwards. this was my position since start of gmg arc. and it hasnt changed.
to give you another example. people claim jellal is the fastest character. i dont agree. there is nothing the manga that suggest it. yes, pre ts jellal is super fast compared to natsu, but so was racer. the rest becomes fan projection. building a house of cards, if you will.
Erza has no real feats superior to him, because she doesn’t accomplish anything we can’t believe Laxus would have accomplished. When directly compared to him it’s that Mashima hopes, she can beat him. Your argument on Tenrou is that Erza is tired and injured, but Hades made clear the only mage even close to him is Bluenote and she got messed up by Azuma who has a sizable gap between them. Whereas Hades felt pressured by Laxus. An his power is what put him down. Likewise you have a head cannon argument that facing Minerva and Kaguya is comprable to facing Jura, but ignore Mira, who is also on that tier clearly stating that even her and Erza together didn’t stand a chance. So where do you get the argument that somehow those two are his equal. It’s not just fan following, it’s the actual events of the manga that consistently show the gap between them. If your personal fandom doesn’t allow you to acknowledge it, that’s fine. Let’s just please stop pretending actual events in the manga support that nonsense.
See, even this example doesn’t work. Jellal and Racer, an amped Racer at that, actually fight. An Racer can’t even touch Jellal in base. Not even using meteor. If not for the fact Jellal is trying to recruit them, he likely wouldn’t have landed a single blow and couldn’t do so in his own. That’s actually shown in the Manga, no need for interpretation or guesswork, Mashima settled it for us quite nicely. Why aren’t you acknowledging what actually happened and what we were shown?
So whatever version you watched in your head that makes you feel justified speaking as though he didn’t have to fight an Erza lvl opponent, it wasn’t Fairy Tail. Cause in actual Fairy Tail, Kiria did a great job against Erza. She still hasn’t taken an actual full blown defeat from her, not like the definitive loss she took to Laxus. An she’s actually the first person to push her far enough to use that sword. Now yes, Laxus pushed Erza to reveal all of her trump cards, but we haven’t seen all of Kiria’s either, and he’s Laxus. Will she match up in the long run, hell no. Was she Erza’s rival for the start of this, hell yes. An she has proven to be equal to base Erza. An Laxus put them both down, within 5 minutes of each other.
My guy, Kyria's hypnosis magic works on you if you aren't humble. That's why Erza was affected but Laxus wasn't. If Laxus was just as strong as he was when he fought Kyria but he was cocky instead of humble, then he would've become her pet. And that doesn't work on Erza anymore since hypnosis magic gets countered by having prior knowledge. Laxus even said he's in the guild because this weak, so if anything using this as your argument would make Laxus look weaker instead of stronger.
Busting Erza's sword does not mean she is her rival. It just means she busted her sword. She also cut Laxus' shirt, so does that mean she's his rival too? If looking surprised is acknowleding your opponents strength, then Laxus acknowledged her strength too.
Belserion is Erza's trump card? Since when? Her dual swords enchanted with Gray's and Natsu's magic looks stronger and she also has Nakagami armor. Also I don't know why you're so focused on her fight with Kyria when we literally got a canon Laxus vs Erza fight.
Erza lost against Laxus? Now I know we're not reading the same manga. https://sorcererweekly.com/reader/read/ft100yq/en/5/45/page/2
Laxus straight up admitted that he had no more magic and then passed out right next to Erza a couple of seconds later. While I have already agreed that Laxus is stronger than Erza, it is by a very, very small amount. Not counting a random unnamed punch or 2, Laxus one shot Kyria. If he had the extra magic power, then Laxus would have won the fight extreme diff instead of tieing with Erza.
So all in all:
1) Kyria vs Erza 1st fight only resulted in Kyria's victory because her hypnosis magic works on people who think highly of their power. It has nothing to do with strength, only with how you perceive yourself, otherwise Laxus would have lost as well.
2) Once Erza started using more effort and bypassed the hypnosis, she overpowered Kyria, who ended up fleeing. Erza still hadn't gone all out as we know she's on par with Laxus, who low diffed Kyria.
3) Laxus and Erza tied in a canon fight. Laxus admitted that he was out of magic and passed out right next to Erza only a couple of seconds after she passed out.
4) Had Laxus not fought Kyria, he would have only had enough magic power for one more attack, which means that he would have won the fight, but it would have been an extreme diff win.
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Your whole argument is based on that 1 fight with Kyria where Erza was caught off guard by her hypnosis magic. And then you brought up the second fight where she was clapping Kyria once she started trying and even made her flee. This is probably going to be my last reply because you've been ignoring how there's a canon fight between Laxus and Erza where it was confirmed that there's very little difference between their power. It's not like they haven't fought and we're guessing how the outcome would be solely based on their fights with Kyria, (in which case you would have a much stronger argument), we got confirmation from Mashima himself that they're almost equal in strength.
August: Obvious reasons
Irene: Obvious reasons
Larcade: R.I.P,Hunger and Pleasure GG
Dimaria: Timestop and Age scratch GG
God Serena: Gildarts stated that serena is a force to be reckoned with at his prime, so serena should be stronger then him
Brandish: Blows up gildarts organs
Bloodman: Macro + Max Pain + MBP+ Intang + soul absorbtion + 3rd seal = gildarts graveyard
Invel: Ice lock or Ice Shroud GG
Wall: Just like for mira, wall finds out gildarts weakness aka cana and makes one if not alot of his clones into cana or wall can just cancel gildarts magic with bane particle canceler (anti magic), now it depends if wall can hurt him or not, if wall has gas bombs then he wins if he doesn't then gildarts takes it eventually
Jacob: BFR GG
Thus meaning that gildarts only beats ajeel and neinhart and has a chance at beating wall, he gets stomped by the rest of them. LMAO GILDARTS NEVER MADE AUGUST COMMIT SUICIDE LOOOL august literally no sold his strongest attack without a damn scratch
Dimaria was literally countered by Wendy. You don’t think Gildarts of The West could crash her spell?
God Serena: Yes he did, but he was clear he would only have been a better challenge if Alive, not that he thought he would lose, and the man is a Slayer. The epitome of combat mages in the verse.
Brandish: cannot effect mages stronger than her and Is actively below mid tier Spriggan as shown with Neinhart after enhancement. She wouldn’t be able to effect Gildarts at all.
Bloodman/Invel/Jacob: Lost to Gajeel/Grey, you must be joking. Period.
Wahl: gets completely destroyed. Like utterly absolutely destroyed. As shown actual Wahl just does combat with his alchemy not that robo nonsense. An him cancelling Crush would only lead to a battle of strength like against the bishop. Gildarts destroys him. Look how Laxus slapped him around. The only ones who have a convincing victory are August and Irene. An I don’t have to debate that, because after he got hit with Gildarts spell, he resorted to a suicide spell. He saw it as the best answer to procurring his father’s victory. I’m not sure how you’d describe that, but sounds like causing the man to commit suicide from here. What would you consider causing a man to consider suicide the best option?
My guy, Kyria's hypnosis magic works on you if you aren't humble. That's why Erza was affected but Laxus wasn't. If Laxus was just as strong as he was when he fought Kyria but he was cocky instead of humble, then he would've become her pet. And that doesn't work on Erza anymore since hypnosis magic gets countered by having prior knowledge. Laxus even said he's in the guild because this weak, so if anything using this as your argument would make Laxus look weaker instead of stronger.
Busting Erza's sword does not mean she is her rival. It just means she busted her sword. She also cut Laxus' shirt, so does that mean she's his rival too? If looking surprised is acknowleding your opponents strength, then Laxus acknowledged her strength too.
Belserion is Erza's trump card? Since when? Her dual swords enchanted with Gray's and Natsu's magic looks stronger and she also has Nakagami armor. Also I don't know why you're so focused on her fight with Kyria when we literally got a canon Laxus vs Erza fight.
Erza lost against Laxus? Now I know we're not reading the same manga. https://sorcererweekly.com/reader/read/ft100yq/en/5/45/page/2
Laxus straight up admitted that he had no more magic and then passed out right next to Erza a couple of seconds later. While I have already agreed that Laxus is stronger than Erza, it is by a very, very small amount. Not counting a random unnamed punch or 2, Laxus one shot Kyria. If he had the extra magic power, then Laxus would have won the fight extreme diff instead of tieing with Erza.
So all in all:
1) Kyria vs Erza 1st fight only resulted in Kyria's victory because her hypnosis magic works on people who think highly of their power. It has nothing to do with strength, only with how you perceive yourself, otherwise Laxus would have lost as well.
2) Once Erza started using more effort and bypassed the hypnosis, she overpowered Kyria, who ended up fleeing. Erza still hadn't gone all out as we know she's on par with Laxus, who low diffed Kyria.
3) Laxus and Erza tied in a canon fight. Laxus admitted that he was out of magic and passed out right next to Erza only a couple of seconds after she passed out.
4) Had Laxus not fought Kyria, he would have only had enough magic power for one more attack, which means that he would have won the fight, but it would have been an extreme diff win.
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Your whole argument is based on that 1 fight with Kyria where Erza was caught off guard by her hypnosis magic. And then you brought up the second fight where she was clapping Kyria once she started trying and even made her flee. This is probably going to be my last reply because you've been ignoring how there's a canon fight between Laxus and Erza where it was confirmed that there's very little difference between their power. It's not like they haven't fought and we're guessing how the outcome would be solely based on their fights with Kyria, (in which case you would have a much stronger argument), we got confirmation from Mashima himself that they're almost equal in strength.
It doesn’t do that at all. Laxus has literally no sold every single illusion spell used against him so far. Ever since all the way back during his debut. https://www.mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-120-page-7.html
People taking that and running with it that his Makarov speech means he really was only immune because he has a weak self-image as opposed to because of his shown immunity/resistance to illusion spells that’s fine. It doesn’t make Laxus actually weak though. Illusions spells are a part of magic. She was able to catch Erza in one, despite her having a halfing effect on all illusions cast through eyes anyways. You can get nitpicky if you like, but it’s still a good spell and a solid win. Especially since it wasn’t done while she was on the back foot, nor as some kind of last ditch effort. Nice try though.
Is that how you make arguments or was that genuinely how your comprehension made that seem to you. Those are clearly two seperate point being made, one with a picture to prove it. Though for those Who need it, because memories are fallable. Mighty Erza acknowledging her opponent is strong. https://sorcererweekly.com/reader/read/ft100yq/en/2/14/page/17
So I’m even gunna waste time with the rest of this false equivalency argument. If you need further clarification, let me know. I’ll be happy to oblige.
Laxus, as previously stated and currently pointed out, just finished a gauntlet against 2 Erza lvl opponents. An let’s remember, nowhere in your argument have you proven that Kiria isn’t a rival of base Erza. An arguing that she had more trump cards up her sleeve that had yet to be shown isn’t an argument that they aren’t equals in base. In fact it acknowledges that Erza needs her trump cards to show any kind of gap. So yeah, after he beat an Erza whose only prior magic use was members of the weakling tribe, and flirting with Jellal, he is out of magic. Now since this is only the second time we’ve seen this, that is indeed a Pyrrhic victory for Erza. Brag about it if you wish.
So in summary
1) Kiria has the only actual victory in their rivalry. It being based on hax doesn’t change anything since that’s a facet of magic. It’s like saying a slayer only won because they can eat their element. Thems the brakes.
2) All Erza did was blast Kiria back. She didn’t put her out of commission or KO her, and she was still ready to fight. The only reason the battle didn’t continue was because of outside interference because Skullion is a run first ask questions later kind of cat. Again, nice attempt at rebranding though. An we know Erza needed to use all of her trump cards to stand up with Laxus, requiring two seperate amps just to do any significant damage. An also came up short. After being impressed by how much magic power he had. I wouldn’t call that being on par by any stretch of the word.
3) Laxus beat Erza in a cannon fight. Him being out of magic and going to sleep afterwards, because we saw the difference between falling and passing out by how they each went down, doesn’t make it a tie. If that logic is the way we judge these things, literally half the victories in the series were ties. Not victories. An since him being out of magic is contingent on him gauntleting her and another character just as strong as her in base, that he took out with a Secret Art, it’s not a big deficit.
4) Did we miss the Secret Art? Laxus no diffed, but Kiria made him put her down twice. So we know it’s more than 1 spell. It’s what every amount of magic was expelled to put her on the floor covered in the bruises the first time. An the Secret Art used to make sure she stayed down for a while. That’s the difference. Laxus would literally have enough magic to take on another Erza with a Secret Art in the tank. In fact, it’s likely that’s the entire reason he jumped right to Red Lightning Mode when he saw Erza really did have a trump card just for him after he demolished her lightning armor. So, that’s him winning with plenty of magic left in the tank, after literally one upping every single attack and move Erza brought to the table.
No, my point is that Laxus bodied Erza. My entire point is that he won. Definitively, but such a margin that Erza gave a speech about it. Yet soo many fans seem desperate to classify this as a barely won or a tie, and your entire argument hinges on this being the only time we see Laxus admit he’s out of magic and go to sleep. Nobody claimed that it was a tie when he gauntleted Wahl and Hades and took a nap. Nobody claimed it was a tie when any of his other guild mates have passed out throughout the series. An now, it’s tie criteria. Which is laughable. So yeah, I keep pointing out it was after a gauntlet. We don’t have to guess. We know, because Mashima shows us, that just like how Mira suggested she and Erza wouldn’t be enough to beat Jura even as a team. Somebody on Laxus tier can take out Erza and one of her rivals. (Cause like it or not, Kiria was her Minerva this series )
My guy, Kyria's hypnosis magic works on you if you aren't humble. That's why Erza was affected but Laxus wasn't. If Laxus was just as strong as he was when he fought Kyria but he was cocky instead of humble, then he would've become her pet. And that doesn't work on Erza anymore since hypnosis magic gets countered by having prior knowledge. Laxus even said he's in the guild because this weak, so if anything using this as your argument would make Laxus look weaker instead of stronger.
Busting Erza's sword does not mean she is her rival. It just means she busted her sword. She also cut Laxus' shirt, so does that mean she's his rival too? If looking surprised is acknowleding your opponents strength, then Laxus acknowledged her strength too.
Belserion is Erza's trump card? Since when? Her dual swords enchanted with Gray's and Natsu's magic looks stronger and she also has Nakagami armor. Also I don't know why you're so focused on her fight with Kyria when we literally got a canon Laxus vs Erza fight.
Erza lost against Laxus? Now I know we're not reading the same manga. https://sorcererweekly.com/reader/read/ft100yq/en/5/45/page/2
Laxus straight up admitted that he had no more magic and then passed out right next to Erza a couple of seconds later. While I have already agreed that Laxus is stronger than Erza, it is by a very, very small amount. Not counting a random unnamed punch or 2, Laxus one shot Kyria. If he had the extra magic power, then Laxus would have won the fight extreme diff instead of tieing with Erza.
So all in all:
1) Kyria vs Erza 1st fight only resulted in Kyria's victory because her hypnosis magic works on people who think highly of their power. It has nothing to do with strength, only with how you perceive yourself, otherwise Laxus would have lost as well.
2) Once Erza started using more effort and bypassed the hypnosis, she overpowered Kyria, who ended up fleeing. Erza still hadn't gone all out as we know she's on par with Laxus, who low diffed Kyria.
3) Laxus and Erza tied in a canon fight. Laxus admitted that he was out of magic and passed out right next to Erza only a couple of seconds after she passed out.
4) Had Laxus not fought Kyria, he would have only had enough magic power for one more attack, which means that he would have won the fight, but it would have been an extreme diff win.
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Your whole argument is based on that 1 fight with Kyria where Erza was caught off guard by her hypnosis magic. And then you brought up the second fight where she was clapping Kyria once she started trying and even made her flee. This is probably going to be my last reply because you've been ignoring how there's a canon fight between Laxus and Erza where it was confirmed that there's very little difference between their power. It's not like they haven't fought and we're guessing how the outcome would be solely based on their fights with Kyria, (in which case you would have a much stronger argument), we got confirmation from Mashima himself that they're almost equal in strength.
It doesn’t do that at all. Laxus has literally no sold every single illusion spell used against him so far. Ever since all the way back during his debut. https://www.mangasee123.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-120-page-7.html
People taking that and running with it that his Makarov speech means he really was only immune because he has a weak self-image as opposed to because of his shown immunity/resistance to illusion spells that’s fine. It doesn’t make Laxus actually weak though. Illusions spells are a part of magic. She was able to catch Erza in one, despite her having a halfing effect on all illusions cast through eyes anyways. You can get nitpicky if you like, but it’s still a good spell and a solid win. Especially since it wasn’t done while she was on the back foot, nor as some kind of last ditch effort. Nice try though.
Is that how you make arguments or was that genuinely how your comprehension made that seem to you. Those are clearly two seperate point being made, one with a picture to prove it. Though for those Who need it, because memories are fallable. Mighty Erza acknowledging her opponent is strong. https://sorcererweekly.com/reader/read/ft100yq/en/2/14/page/17
So I’m even gunna waste time with the rest of this false equivalency argument. If you need further clarification, let me know. I’ll be happy to oblige.
Laxus, as previously stated and currently pointed out, just finished a gauntlet against 2 Erza lvl opponents. An let’s remember, nowhere in your argument have you proven that Kiria isn’t a rival of base Erza. An arguing that she had more trump cards up her sleeve that had yet to be shown isn’t an argument that they aren’t equals in base. In fact it acknowledges that Erza needs her trump cards to show any kind of gap. So yeah, after he beat an Erza whose only prior magic use was members of the weakling tribe, and flirting with Jellal, he is out of magic. Now since this is only the second time we’ve seen this, that is indeed a Pyrrhic victory for Erza. Brag about it if you wish.
So in summary
1) Kiria has the only actual victory in their rivalry. It being based on hax doesn’t change anything since that’s a facet of magic. It’s like saying a slayer only won because they can eat their element. Thems the brakes.
2) All Erza did was blast Kiria back. She didn’t put her out of commission or KO her, and she was still ready to fight. The only reason the battle didn’t continue was because of outside interference because Skullion is a run first ask questions later kind of cat. Again, nice attempt at rebranding though. An we know Erza needed to use all of her trump cards to stand up with Laxus, requiring two seperate amps just to do any significant damage. An also came up short. After being impressed by how much magic power he had. I wouldn’t call that being on par by any stretch of the word.
3) Laxus beat Erza in a cannon fight. Him being out of magic and going to sleep afterwards, because we saw the difference between falling and passing out by how they each went down, doesn’t make it a tie. If that logic is the way we judge these things, literally half the victories in the series were ties. Not victories. An since him being out of magic is contingent on him gauntleting her and another character just as strong as her in base, that he took out with a Secret Art, it’s not a big deficit.
4) Did we miss the Secret Art? Laxus no diffed, but Kiria made him put her down twice. So we know it’s more than 1 spell. It’s what every amount of magic was expelled to put her on the floor covered in the bruises the first time. An the Secret Art used to make sure she stayed down for a while. That’s the difference. Laxus would literally have enough magic to take on another Erza with a Secret Art in the tank. In fact, it’s likely that’s the entire reason he jumped right to Red Lightning Mode when he saw Erza really did have a trump card just for him after he demolished her lightning armor. So, that’s him winning with plenty of magic left in the tank, after literally one upping every single attack and move Erza brought to the table.
No, my point is that Laxus bodied Erza. My entire point is that he won. Definitively, but such a margin that Erza gave a speech about it. Yet soo many fans seem desperate to classify this as a barely won or a tie, and your entire argument hinges on this being the only time we see Laxus admit he’s out of magic and go to sleep. Nobody claimed that it was a tie when he gauntleted Wahl and Hades and took a nap. Nobody claimed it was a tie when any of his other guild mates have passed out throughout the series. An now, it’s tie criteria. Which is laughable. So yeah, I keep pointing out it was after a gauntlet. We don’t have to guess. We know, because Mashima shows us, that just like how Mira suggested she and Erza wouldn’t be enough to beat Jura even as a team. Somebody on Laxus tier can take out Erza and one of her rivals. (Cause like it or not, Kiria was her Minerva this series )
Bro what, dimaria was never countered by wendy LMAOOO ultear let wendy move in her timestop, u seriously have no knowledge on FT
Gildarts said that god serena would be a force to be reckoned with if he was real, thus meaning that god serena is >= to gildarts, he then later said that he wanted to fight him if he was real, ill give serena the win since he has more abilities like wind which cant be crushed and was stated to be ishgars strongest wizard
Brandish is a high tier spriggan (so are god serena and dimaria), brandish's magic cant affect people who have more MP but she can affect organs and small parts of peoples bodies, just like how brandish shrinked augusts wound, a wound is different from magic power same goes for organs so brandish just blows up gildarts organs end.
Invel lost to gray was because gray was immune to his ice you clown, show me gildarts having immunity to ice shroud also gray got saved by juvia when invel ice locked him, invel can just ice lock gildarts and make him his pet
Bloodman lost to gajeel was because gajeel was able to hit him, gildarts crush magic can be countered by intang as bloodman can just reform again, how does gildarts beat bloodman without dying from being near him?? hes not gajeel being able to hit intang people, gildarts simply gets poisoned by him not to mention that bloodman didn't use any of his hax such as soul absorption,macro or max pain against gajeel which he will against gildarts (show me gildarts having a counter to it) also bloodman can just bfr gildarts with 3rd seal gg
Jacob lost to natsu and mira was because he didn't use his bfr hax on them (due to plot), but he will use his bfr hax on gildarts since its a bloodlusted battle so he one shots gildarts with his bfr hax
Wall doesn't gets destroyed, what physical feats does current gildarts have? i dont remember him using physicals on serena or august just his crush magic, also wall can just makes clones of cana and gildarts gets distacted and then wall flies up in the sky and simply drop etherion on gildarts numerous times, etherion should do major damage to gildarts and dozens of them could probably pull out a win for wall
yeah the only spriggans gildarts beats are ajeel and neinhart, gets stomped on by the rest of them except for wall who he still loses to if gildarts doesn't plays dumb and simps for cana or lets wall go in the air
Mostly agree.
I'll just up Mira to above Gray and Gajeel
Also, we shouldn't try to scale Gray and Gajeel with darkness mode (I assume thats what you meant with fully demonized mode?) and dragon force. They can't use it willingly.
But, if you're using these modes, both of them go above Laxus
and what if the "fodder" 12 gets better feats in the 100YQ then fodderbolos/fodder eaters
since fodder bolos/fodder eaters gonna end this arc, "fodder" 12 such as brandish appeared in 2 DG arcs and had a role in both of them
1. saved gray faster then skullion could turn him to ash
2. made gajeel as big as aldoron
and she might get another role in this arc or next arc and another "fodder" 12 member such as irene appeared in 2 DG arcs as well and also had a role (well actually 2 roles in aldo arc) in both of them
1. she landed 1% of her power to wendy that no diffed DF nebal
2. she thought wendy separation enchantment to neg faris
3. she enchanted the FT team to one shot alta face who was made by selene
she might as well enchant wendy and make her beat a BDSK (and honestly when the BDSK gets trashed, i bet that every fodderbolos/fodder eater stans gonna cry)
.Kyria got low diffed by Laxus whereas Erza fought him in an extreme diff fight. Everything in the Laxus vs Erza fight demonstrates that Kyria is almost nothing compared to those 2. Laxus lost little MP in his fight with Kyria so you can't use the excuse that he would've won by a far margin if he hadn't used his secret art against Kyria.
Those are clearly two seperate point being made, one with a picture to prove it. Though for those Who need it, because memories are fallable. Mighty Erza acknowledging her opponent is strong.
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