Wendy only used separation irenes body, she never used it in her own, how she managed to somehow learn it in irenes body is either just mashimas logic or she somehow knew everything that irene could do since she was in her body
Irene didn't enchant anybody. Don't know where this coming from. Their MP went higher than it was before thanks Atla face buffing team Natsu. All team Natsu did believe in their own body.
Wendy only used separation irenes body, she never used it in her own, how she managed to somehow learn it in irenes body is either just mashimas logic or she somehow knew everything that irene could do since she was in her body
Irene didn't enchant anybody. Don't know where this coming from. Their MP went higher than it was before thanks Atla face buffing team Natsu. All team Natsu did believe in their own body.
Not through an enchantment but making her remember who she was. Then wendy asks team Natsu to trust their bodies. Never understood why Atla face buff them in the first place.
Not through an enchantment but making her remember who she was. Then wendy asks team Natsu to trust their bodies. Never understood why Atla face buff them in the first place.
See, even this example doesn’t work. Jellal and Racer, an amped Racer at that, actually fight. An Racer can’t even touch Jellal in base. Not even using meteor. If not for the fact Jellal is trying to recruit them, he likely wouldn’t have landed a single blow and couldn’t do so in his own. That’s actually shown in the Manga, no need for interpretation or guesswork, Mashima settled it for us quite nicely. Why aren’t you acknowledging what actually happened and what we were shown?
no. you are confusing pre ts and and tartarus arc.
basically you are saying tartarus racer would need gmg lyon and gmg gray teaming to beat him. which you obviously know is not true. you have to acknowledge bad guys dont grow as fast as the good guys (unless you are one of those weird guys who believe fillers are cannon).
i am talking about pre ts, when jellal blitz natsu and racer blitzed natsu, gray and three other fodders.
just by going with pre ts feats, racer is as fast if not faster than meteor jellal. tartarus jellal improved as much as laxus and erza. while racer didnt.
after that all jellal has, is his blitz of unsuspecting jura, which was hyped by jet. thats it.
( to give you general example how much irrelevant characters fall in ranking, one demon gate was enough for raijinnshu, a group that came one arc before OS)
Erza has no real feats superior to him, because she doesn’t accomplish anything we can’t believe Laxus would have accomplished. When directly compared to him it’s that Mashima hopes, she can beat him. Your argument on Tenrou is that Erza is tired and injured, but Hades made clear the only mage even close to him is Bluenote and she got messed up by Azuma who has a sizable gap between them. Whereas Hades felt pressured by Laxus. An his power is what put him down. Likewise you have a head cannon argument that facing Minerva and Kaguya is comprable to facing Jura, but ignore Mira, who is also on that tier clearly stating that even her and Erza together didn’t stand a chance. So where do you get the argument that somehow those two are his equal. It’s not just fan following, it’s the actual events of the manga that consistently show the gap between them. If your personal fandom doesn’t allow you to acknowledge it, that’s fine. Let’s just please stop pretending actual events in the manga support that nonsense.
this subjective, as you said, you cant believe laxus would not accomplish.
you just have to assume laxus is alot stronger than erza, and bam laxus can do everything.
so
some of my examples are like mishma wont believe me either. like suzaku vs erza. here people were salivating over how fast suzaku is, i just came and said, even though mishma might not know, erza was actually faster in their clash. avoiding natsu and summoning a sword, and colliding with suzaku, who had only took a straight forward step. i will explain this in point 3
1) defense. erza defense is far above laxus. erm laxus doesnt have defensive magic
2) speed. pre ts laxus has no speed feat. he did wail on hades, hardly a speed feat. meanwhile erza is most likely as fast as racer with souring armor. and have reflexes to block racer tier speed when not even aware
3) now here is the problem. attack power
you see, people here like to rank stats of mages. but for most non boss villains we dont get much stats or screen time. so people project.
one can make an easy assumption that same tier people generally have same tier durability
so say phantom arc gajeel will be say around as durable say gray or natsu. and his durability will be nowhere near jose.
alot of people agree with this. but how would you define tiers. well if nothing is mentioned foot soldiers should be around each other tier. if something is mentioned than there is a tier difference. so ikugura definitely had much higher durability than her team mates and midnight had higher durability than cobra. now this causes problems. alot people like you love laxus. so they made imaginary tier for him and jellal and mystogan. even though no unbais statement has been made in the manga claiming that laxus and mystogan are somehow different than erza.
this picking and choosing had @Seven777 claim human eileen is jellal teir somehow. basically it becomes what any fan wants
either how, i look at only the statements. cobra is natsu tier. and midnight is above natsu tier. his durability and attack power should be above natsu. same for any opponent that give erza high diff fight.
whether you like it or not. laxus is irrelevant. erza is one of the main. her ranking is more important than laxus. erza is confirmed alot stronger than natsu. then all the opponents she defeated with huge difficulty are above natsu as well.
pre ts laxus most powerful attacks are lightning roar, and heaven halbert. both together put down gajeel. who mind you is just stronger (one tier maybe) than aria. who fell to erza mid tier attack.
so me saying heaven wing blumbatt is around laxus roar, isnt being unfair at all.
pre ts laxus has no answers to pre ts erza fairy armor and benzikura
pre ts laxus only put down a natsu tier, while pre ts erza put down some natsu+ tier.
either how, i actually dont believe mishma believes my third point.
of course its markarov hope. otherwise erza would outright stronger than laxus
hades never talked to laxus much, you are confusing anime filler with manga. laxus basically wailed on him, when hades reacted, laxus fell.
its hype. mira hyped jura, just like erza hyped phantom s class. there is no diiference. never accept bad guys hype when they are compared to good guys. erza without SO is solidly in kagura and minirva tier, with SO she sould be a teir above them in jura tier.
there is alot of problems with the fans, hate for erza and love for laxus has influnced alot of them. then mishma problem in actually using erza magic right. then erza being a main character and laxus being a side character. and then the nakama thing
alot of people agree with this. but how would you define tiers. well if nothing is mentioned foot soldiers should be around each other tier. if something is mentioned than there is a tier difference. so ikugura definitely had much higher durability than her team mates and midnight had higher durability than cobra. now this causes problems. alot people like you love laxus. so they made imaginary tier for him and jellal and mystogan. even though no unbais statement has been made in the manga claiming that laxus and mystogan are somehow different than erza.
this picking and choosing had @Seven777 claim human eileen is jellal teir somehow. basically it becomes what any fan wants
either how, i look at only the statements. cobra is natsu tier. and midnight is above natsu tier. his durability and attack power should be above natsu. same for any opponent that give erza high diff fight.
whether you like it or not. laxus is irrelevant. erza is one of the main. her ranking is more important than laxus. erza is confirmed alot stronger than natsu. then all the opponents she defeated with huge difficulty are above natsu as well.
I'm going to assume that since you tagged me, you want me to reply.
"No unbias statements" There literally is. Mira states that Jura is as powerful as her and Erza combined. No bias. If anything she'd be biased to state otherwise. You pretending like there's no basis for our opinion is hilarious. We don't need some "bias" to think Laxus is stronger than Erza. All we need is to believe Mirajane's own statement. And like you said, a lot of people agree with this.... because why the hell wouldn't they? Everything in that arc portrayed Jura as the absolute most powerful fighter there and Laxus already had team Natsu, including Erza, shitting their pants at his power the previous arc.
Stop whining about people liking Laxus and hating Erza. Erza consistently performs well in character polls on this forum, this bullshit is all in your head.
Also. Bullshit you look at statements. I can hardly believe you'd even state that lol. The manga explicitly states that Gajeel is the strongest member of Phantom Lord, but you continue to scream how Aria is stronger than he is. You buy statements when they fit your argument, nothing more.
Oh and Laxus is confirmed much stronger than Natsu too, so the point about Erza high diffing anyone makes no sense, since it all stems from the same hype Laxus already has.
no. you are confusing pre ts and and tartarus arc.
basically you are saying tartarus racer would need gmg lyon and gmg gray teaming to beat him. which you obviously know is not true. you have to acknowledge bad guys dont grow as fast as the good guys (unless you are one of those weird guys who believe fillers are cannon).
i am talking about pre ts, when jellal blitz natsu and racer blitzed natsu, gray and three other fodders.
just by going with pre ts feats, racer is as fast if not faster than meteor jellal. tartarus jellal improved as much as laxus and erza. while racer didnt.
after that all jellal has, is his blitz of unsuspecting jura, which was hyped by jet. thats it.
( to give you general example how much irrelevant characters fall in ranking, one demon gate was enough for raijinnshu, a group that came one arc before OS)
this subjective, as you said, you cant believe laxus would not accomplish.
you just have to assume laxus is alot stronger than erza, and bam laxus can do everything.
so
some of my examples are like mishma wont believe me either. like suzaku vs erza. here people were salivating over how fast suzaku is, i just came and said, even though mishma might not know, erza was actually faster in their clash. avoiding natsu and summoning a sword, and colliding with suzaku, who had only took a straight forward step. i will explain this in point 3
1) defense. erza defense is far above laxus. erm laxus doesnt have defensive magic
2) speed. pre ts laxus has no speed feat. he did wail on hades, hardly a speed feat. meanwhile erza is most likely as fast as racer with souring armor. and have reflexes to block racer tier speed when not even aware
3) now here is the problem. attack power
you see, people here like to rank stats of mages. but for most non boss villains we dont get much stats or screen time. so people project.
one can make an easy assumption that same tier people generally have same tier durability
so say phantom arc gajeel will be say around as durable say gray or natsu. and his durability will be nowhere near jose.
alot of people agree with this. but how would you define tiers. well if nothing is mentioned foot soldiers should be around each other tier. if something is mentioned than there is a tier difference. so ikugura definitely had much higher durability than her team mates and midnight had higher durability than cobra. now this causes problems. alot people like you love laxus. so they made imaginary tier for him and jellal and mystogan. even though no unbais statement has been made in the manga claiming that laxus and mystogan are somehow different than erza.
this picking and choosing had @Seven777 claim human eileen is jellal teir somehow. basically it becomes what any fan wants
either how, i look at only the statements. cobra is natsu tier. and midnight is above natsu tier. his durability and attack power should be above natsu. same for any opponent that give erza high diff fight.
whether you like it or not. laxus is irrelevant. erza is one of the main. her ranking is more important than laxus. erza is confirmed alot stronger than natsu. then all the opponents she defeated with huge difficulty are above natsu as well.
pre ts laxus most powerful attacks are lightning roar, and heaven halbert. both together put down gajeel. who mind you is just stronger (one tier maybe) than aria. who fell to erza mid tier attack.
so me saying heaven wing blumbatt is around laxus roar, isnt being unfair at all.
pre ts laxus has no answers to pre ts erza fairy armor and benzikura
pre ts laxus only put down a natsu tier, while pre ts erza put down some natsu+ tier.
either how, i actually dont believe mishma believes my third point.
of course its markarov hope. otherwise erza would outright stronger than laxus
hades never talked to laxus much, you are confusing anime filler with manga. laxus basically wailed on him, when hades reacted, laxus fell.
its hype. mira hyped jura, just like erza hyped phantom s class. there is no diiference. never accept bad guys hype when they are compared to good guys. erza without SO is solidly in kagura and minirva tier, with SO she sould be a teir above them in jura tier.
there is alot of problems with the fans, hate for erza and love for laxus has influnced alot of them. then mishma problem in actually using erza magic right. then erza being a main character and laxus being a side character. and then the nakama thing
No, I’m not. I’m making a factual statement about where they are when they get actively compared. You keep trying to choose what parts of the manga you get to blatantly ignore, and it doesn’t work like that. The movies are cannon. Mashima has referenced and used all of them in the main source material. Every single one. So your personal preference on them is irrelevant, until such a time as you write a fanfic, we read it, and we’re in a thread discussing that instead of the actual story. We saw that they progressed just fine, and kept pace with team Natsu enough to challenge them when facing off again. So don’t try and pretend they aren’t relevant power wise. You could complain about how they got that power, but since we clearly see that their magic is still changed, Angel being the most obvious example, it doesn’t matter because it happened. An we don’t need to look at your opinion of who might have been faster if your version is right, because we get shown exactly who’s faster in a direct comparison. An Jellal bodied him. Case closed. The comparison doesn’t work. Period. Curtesy of Mashima’s personal opinion. No need to even mention that Brain considered Jellal his top student and superior to his children.
I’m gonna ignore the next part because the comment “Mashima might not know” is laughable and ridiculous. ITS HIS MANGA!!! Your opinion, and mine are irrelevant compared to his. What he puts takes precedence, and he ain’t write it like that. Again, case closed.
You wrote allot to argue why in your headcannon Erza is superior. It’s once again irrelevant though, because we didn’t make up anything. Erza is stated by Mashima to hopefully be able to stand ip to Laxus. An we then have the master’s own opinion of his S class mages. Next time we see them both, Laxus does more than the entirety of team Natsu put together, and takes a bigger blow than any of them have taken without magic, and without the benefit or Tenrou because he has no mark. AND STILL GETS UP FIRST TO HELP NATSU!!! He leads the charge against Hades even though he’s the only one not rejuvenated by the tree. An that’s ignoring how Hades literally acknowledged that he’s not on the same tier as the Sins, but at least equal to his ace and FT’s ace to fight like this. Jump to the next big arc, where he literally beats someone we are told is worth 2 Erza’s. An who they likely couldn’t beat working in tandem. Ignore that if you want, but it’s the literal Manga itself. That’s the story. Laxus beat somebody who Erza and her rival couldn’t beat if they team up. Well Erza beat 2…NO SHE DIDNT. She beat one, and then beat the other with her trump card. She didn’t beat them both at the same time. So let that comparison go. Especially since they aren’t worth 1 Jura anyway. Laxus bodied a 9 gate, she struggled. In Mashima opinion; Laxus could be literally dying and he would still win!!! He like the idea so much, he used it again in the next arc. An Erza ain’t beat a single opponent in Alvarez by her lonesome. Let it go.
Your entire argument is based on trying to find ways to deny Laxus feats because their what convinced the majority of the fanbase (Except diehard Erza fans ) that Laxus is superior. I wonder why that is!! I don’t argue Laxus could beat Gildarts, because the manga makes it clear he couldn’t. I’d love if it were different. I’d kill for him to have just 1 practice match against him, and if it went exactly how their match went, I’d be ecstatic. It wouldn’t suddenly be a loss for Gildarts though, or a tie. It would be the crowning achievement of Laxus career and proof he had reached that Tier. Unless Gildarts beat Jura and Orga and Erza first, then fought him. It would mean Laxus needs him softened up first. Just the two of them fresh . Oh well. Until we debate this again my friend. I’ma go wait for translations.
No, I’m not. I’m making a factual statement about where they are when they get actively compared. You keep trying to choose what parts of the manga you get to blatantly ignore, and it doesn’t work like that. The movies are cannon. Mashima has referenced and used all of them in the main source material. Every single one. So your personal preference on them is irrelevant, until such a time as you write a fanfic, we read it, and we’re in a thread discussing that instead of the actual story. We saw that they progressed just fine, and kept pace with team Natsu enough to challenge them when facing off again. So don’t try and pretend they aren’t relevant power wise. You could complain about how they got that power, but since we clearly see that their magic is still changed, Angel being the most obvious example, it doesn’t matter because it happened. An we don’t need to look at your opinion of who might have been faster if your version is right, because we get shown exactly who’s faster in a direct comparison. An Jellal bodied him. Case closed. The comparison doesn’t work. Period. Curtesy of Mashima’s personal opinion. No need to even mention that Brain considered Jellal his top student and superior to his children.
I’m gonna ignore the next part because the comment “Mashima might not know” is laughable and ridiculous. ITS HIS MANGA!!! Your opinion, and mine are irrelevant compared to his. What he puts takes precedence, and he ain’t write it like that. Again, case closed.
You wrote allot to argue why in your headcannon Erza is superior. It’s once again irrelevant though, because we didn’t make up anything. Erza is stated by Mashima to hopefully be able to stand ip to Laxus. An we then have the master’s own opinion of his S class mages. Next time we see them both, Laxus does more than the entirety of team Natsu put together, and takes a bigger blow than any of them have taken without magic, and without the benefit or Tenrou because he has no mark. AND STILL GETS UP FIRST TO HELP NATSU!!! He leads the charge against Hades even though he’s the only one not rejuvenated by the tree. An that’s ignoring how Hades literally acknowledged that he’s not on the same tier as the Sins, but at least equal to his ace and FT’s ace to fight like this. Jump to the next big arc, where he literally beats someone we are told is worth 2 Erza’s. An who they likely couldn’t beat working in tandem. Ignore that if you want, but it’s the literal Manga itself. That’s the story. Laxus beat somebody who Erza and her rival couldn’t beat if they team up. Well Erza beat 2…NO SHE DIDNT. She beat one, and then beat the other with her trump card. She didn’t beat them both at the same time. So let that comparison go. Especially since they aren’t worth 1 Jura anyway. Laxus bodied a 9 gate, she struggled. In Mashima opinion; Laxus could be literally dying and he would still win!!! He like the idea so much, he used it again in the next arc. An Erza ain’t beat a single opponent in Alvarez by her lonesome. Let it go.
there was nothing hopeful about it
i agree. if erza fights and is injured more than gilldarts can stand then after that laxus is clear superior. so first you put erza in a situation where even gildarts falls, then erza vs laxus will clearly show that laxus is on a different level
not really. all i know is phantom arc juvia is equal to laxus. erza said so after all.
you are right. laxus beat wahl with severe plot help. and erza nearly took out eileen. if taking out kagura and minerva didnt show that erza is in jura tier. then aleverzec arc erza would be couple of tiers, not one or two, above laxus.
that is just bs, erza beat one of the strongest demon gate without senses. erza one shot dragon eileen (with broken bones), who would be three tiers above laxus. its bs, nothing more
but at the end. mishma made it clear. laxus had to improve alot, to match erza in 100 year quest. its in the manga, stating that laxus improved alot. and no comment from laxus about erza growth.
Doesn't mention Laxus being equal to Juvia or any of the S classes being a match. Phantom and Fairy Tail were balanced at the time, Phantom almost won, what Erza stated was entirely accurate.
My goodness the denial is really strong lol @sharkai we have gone over this a million times and agree that laxus >erza but yet continuing to debate that erza>laxus the contradiction is crazy to
Me
This chapter supports what myself and others have been stating i.e. that Laxus and Jellal are not that far from Gildarts (the same tier). Laxus said if he and Jellal fought it would be bad for both of them, Laxus fought a spriggan and won, Jellal beat a spriggan with his best move in a one shot, Gildarts respected God Serena and wanted to fight him (implying that he's at least on that level) and now Selene confirms that Laxus is a contender for the strongest FT member thereby illustrating parity between Gildarts and Laxus (and by ext Jellal ).
This chapter supports what myself and others have been stating i.e. that Laxus and Jellal are not that far from Gildarts (the same tier). Laxus said if he and Jellal fought it would be bad for both of them, Laxus fought a spriggan and won, Jellal beat a spriggan with his best move in a one shot, Gildarts respected God Serena and wanted to fight him (implying that he's at least on that level) and now Selene confirms that Laxus is a contender for the strongest FT member thereby illustrating parity between Gildarts and Laxus (and by ext Jellal ).
This chapter supports what myself and others have been stating i.e. that Laxus and Jellal are not that far from Gildarts (the same tier). Laxus said if he and Jellal fought it would be bad for both of them, Laxus fought a spriggan and won, Jellal beat a spriggan with his best move in a one shot, Gildarts respected God Serena and wanted to fight him (implying that he's at least on that level) and now Selene confirms that Laxus is a contender for the strongest FT member thereby illustrating parity between Gildarts and Laxus (and by ext Jellal ).
Kinda agree. Just a few things:
1. IMO Selene is talking about FT members gathered now in the continent. We can't assume she knows about Gildarts. For me Gildarts mid-high diff Laxus (or Jellal), gap isn't high but not that low either.
2. GC is Jellal's mid tier spell that he spams against everyone he faces, not strongest spell. If he actually needed his strongest spell against someone like Neinhart, he's trash lol. But good thing for him that he didn't.
God Serena just seems to be on another level from other "regular" Spriggans. He no diffed Jura + 3 characters tiers above Jura. To put in perspective how good it is, x792 Erza lost to a much weaker combo (Azuma +Kyouka +Ikaruga). If anything, Gildarts recognizing alive Serena says more about Serena than about how Gildarts himself scales to Laxus or Jellal.
The regular Spriggans are quite below the class of Laxus and Jellal. Laxus was about to one shot Ajeel; and Wahl needed immunity + sickness to complete with Laxus, for swiftly dealt with the moment he lost those advantages. Neinhart is just, Neinhart lol and is one shot material for Laxus or Jellal; he should've just hidden and kept using his abilities, would've been more useful that way
Doesn't mention Laxus being equal to Juvia or any of the S classes being a match. Phantom and Fairy Tail were balanced at the time, Phantom almost won, what Erza stated was entirely accurate.
dont know what you mean. we know for a fact that they were balanced. laxus mystogan included. the statement is clear.
if you want to give explanation of things, you can start with mira claim about jura in gmg. because that one obviously does not means what it seems to imply. do you think mira meant she alone cant beat jura or whether she and jura together cant beat erza? here i could use your mental gymnastic .
My goodness the denial is really strong lol @sharkai we have gone over this a million times and agree that laxus >erza but yet continuing to debate that erza>laxus the contradiction is crazy to
Me
you dont seems to understand the context. first i believe laxus >=erza. like it is now and has been forever. you believed laxus >>erza or laxus>erza+mira. mishma bitch slapped you, not me mate.
i am just replying to someone who thinks the most important statement ever made in fairy tail was mira hyping jura
dont know what you mean. we know for a fact that they were balanced. laxus mystogan included. the statement is clear.
if you want to give explanation of things, you can start with mira claim about jura in gmg. because that one obviously does not means what it seems to imply. do you think mira meant she alone cant beat jura or whether she and jura together cant beat erza? here i could use your mental gymnastic .
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i know
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you dont seems to understand the context. first i believe laxus >=erza. like it is now and has been forever. you believed laxus >>erza or laxus>erza+mira. mishma bitch slapped you, not me mate.
i am just replying to someone who thinks the most important statement ever made in fairy tail was mira hyping jura
Bro Back in the day we all did but after their fight we didn’t. but we been saying laxus is stronger than erza. We been debating this for years I feel like u still ain’t accept it I pretty sure that @GL_Nova has trying to prove that laxus is flat out stronger than erza.
And idk why people are using erza statements seriously she is known to contradict/cap before
Bro Back in the day we all did but after their fight we didn’t. but we been saying laxus is stronger than erza. We been debating this for years I feel like u still ain’t accept it I pretty sure that @GL_Nova has trying to prove that laxus is flat out stronger than erza.
And idk why people are using erza statements seriously she is known to contradict/cap before
) that Laxus is superior. I wonder why that is!! I don’t argue Laxus could beat Gildarts, because the manga makes it clear he couldn’t. I’d love if it were different. I’d kill for him to have just 1 practice match against him, and if it went exactly how their match went, I’d be ecstatic. It wouldn’t suddenly be a loss for Gildarts though, or a tie. It would be the crowning achievement of Laxus career and proof he had reached that Tier. Unless Gildarts beat Jura and Orga and Erza first, then fought him. It would mean Laxus needs him softened up first. Just the two of them fresh 
. Oh well. Until we debate this again my friend. I’ma go wait for translations.
.