Ranking the Princesses... and Princes

[Jubei_Kibagami]

1. Where do the princesses that aren't given a rank (but are still rankers) fall in your opinion, and why? How do the deceased, sealed, or otherwise missing princesses compare in your opinion to the ones alive?
2. Where do you think the 'baby' princesses end up when fully matured, and why? (Include Yuri even though she's ranked, that's pretty much understood to be a temp stop as she's rapidly rising)
3. Why do you think Adori is so freakishly-high in her rank? Enne makes a bit of sense, seeing as she's full 100% irregular bloodline with the Z-shot to boost. But why Adori, who doesn't have such an obvious heritage as far as we know? Some say she's just a fluke, I think she's a female clone along the lines of the princes, or has a double Z dose of blood. Or something.

4. Bonus: Where do you think fully-matured PRINCES should rank? Karaka is, like Yuri, rising fast. He's a 'baby' slayer. That is to say he's not going to end up anywhere near the roughly 500-1000 he's at now. The 'Captain' is likely a clone (a very old one... hinting that the prince program is very, very old) of sorts as well (I think he's Luslec, maybe a blue-hole, whatever) and clearly very competent if not extremely powerful to boot. Wangnan... ah, Wangnan. What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? He's obviously the runt of the RLD, weak, frail, and a loser. BUT, the fact that he's destined for more (evidenced by his recent luck acquiring a huge hack sword and more importantly SIU pointedly saying he has a lot in store for him) and seemingly cannot be killed hints that there's more to meet the eye with him. Ugly-duckling syndrome powerwise or something (no matter how unlikable or boring he currently is). I digress.

Where do the princes, of which there may be 2 or 3 (if not more unseen) rank in comparison to the princesses? And how many are there? We know there are 2 rings. But that doesn't mean there were only 2 clones. The inclusion of the Captain indicates cloning has a long history, and many iterations may have been attempted (shout out to anyone watching Foundation, or having read it), failed or successful we don't know.

We KNOW the princesses are made by adding Z blood to an existing tower resident. Are princes made in the same fashion, but in utero? Clones (more likely IMO)? 'Bred' the old-fashioned way (supposedly impossiburu)? If clones, their concentration of Z-blood should be even higher than a princess by default. Although it probably has to be tempered or cut in some way due to its potency. Still, (cut or not) the princes seem to look identical to Zahard so one would think it's closer to full-strength after all. Perhaps a way to stabilize it was being worked on... the history of Zahard's ascension and what took place (leading to revolt?), the prince and princess program overlap, the RLD and the greatest sin there... all this dovetails together into one of the most important mysteries of the series.

I suppose the princess rankings will be a more popular discussion, but I find the princes more interesting to be honest.

Obviously, I'm primarily talking strength and less influence in rank discussions. Yeah, yeah, I know the ranks are influenced by more than strength. Such as influence. We'll ignore that influence in the tower is largely related to strength in that convoluted system.

 

[zoradante1]

1. I would say the first princess arie horn zahard should be pretty much strongest princess ever(including sealed,deceased,missing) after enne and adori. Though i don't have a single evidence,but always ''first'' ones becomes OP generally,since she is the first princess, as well as almost has the same name as Arie hon she should be pretty much adored by hon as well as pretty talented and add to the fact that she is damn old even older than jinsung probably,she would be pretty much stronger than every princess except 2 super princess.

And there is also 2 princess who are dead during enne zahard incident unie zahard and rebecca pon zahard, i would say they are definitely weaker than maschenny but should be pretty much stronger than the likes of yuri considering they shouldn't be stupid to send a fodder princess to catch a monster like enne zahard.

And yuram zahard,she should be a pretty strong high ranker since she was given 13 month series while not being one of 10 GF,though it's hard to say how strong is she,i would say she is weaker than yuri.though she would pretty much destroy any DC in a fight. Same for original anak zahard she should be capable of defeating DC too.

2.I think they are at the very least deserve top 500-400,not only they already came out as one of most talented if not most talented in their generation to be selected as zahard princess they are also getting zahard's blood which even pushes their potential further.

3.Not sure

If i were to rank princess's power levels (including sealed,deceased,missing) it would be like this
1.Adori/Enne
2.Arie horn zahard
3.Arie Hagipherione zahard
4.Garam zahard
5.Maschenny
6.Pondo
7.Heice Zahard
8.Yunie Zahard/Rebecca Pon zahard
9.Alphid/An
10.Yuri zahard
11. Original Anaak/Yuram zahard

Since garam was able to pin down evan who is comparable to yuri with only her presence,she should be stronger than masch,considering even kallavan wasn't even able to pin down baam with his presence

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

@zoradante1 what numerical rank would you arbitrarily think Arie Horn would get?

Around, say, 15 or so, or closer to Hag's rank in theh low 30s?



Where do you think Garam and Mas end up in the top 100?

I'm split on whether Garam is a blue hole at this point.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

Heice will end up team Baam for sure.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021 ---

Gladmerry I would knee-jerk think sucks, but since she might be on a similar level as an Arie princess, who knows.

 

[zoradante1]

I think you should tag others too

@zoradante1 what numerical rank would you arbitrarily think Arie Horn would get?

Around, say, 15 or so, or closer to Hag's rank in theh low 30s?

I would say either late 10s or early 20s.Though her combat ability should be late 20s at the very least. I just can't imagine her being at the same level as Hagiphroine

Where do you think Garam and Mas end up in the top 100?

I'm split on whether Garam is a blue hole at this point.

Yes garam should be blue hole,it's what i'm talking about yet cinera still doesn't understand imo. The only reason why she became well-known high ranker was due to her killing sister who ignited more than 1 month series at once,as such her combat capability shouldn't be measured like this,and 5000 years has passed since this event so she should be much stronger than she was.

I would say maschenny is like early 90s while garam is like late 70s or early 80s considering she was able to pin down evan with only her presence.And evan was stated as comparable to yuri in strength.

Heice will end up team Baam for sure.

Not only heice will end up team baam but also other zahard princess too,every zahard pricess has to taste mightiest sperm ever,dark sperm.

Gladmerry I would knee-jerk think sucks, but since she might be on a similar level as an Arie princess, who knows

Gladmerry looks like a character to stepped on,it's quite likely SIU will show how strong Khun and Rak became with BS powers by slapping gladmerry out of existence.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

@Vali x lucifer @lazybum @Turtle hunter @Cinera @King Dryst @adonisp13 @sazon @Theorist05 @Jyu viole grace @O_n_Sly @kkck @Zanza @PlotArmouredTitan @Jack Van Burace

Sorry if i disturbed you.

 

[Cinera]

Yes garam should be blue hole,it's what i'm talking about yet cinera still doesn't understand imo. The only reason why she became well-known high ranker was due to her killing sister who ignited more than 1 month series at once,as such her combat capability shouldn't be measured like this,and 5000 years has passed since this event so she should be much stronger than she was.

Garam cannot be a Blue Hole. Blue Holes are people who have been inactive for several tens of thousands of years (since Ancient Times). Garam went missing less than 5,000 years ago.

Even Horn may not be a Blue Hole, let alone Garam.

There are several missing Princesses, Garam is just one of them.

Gladmerry looks like a character to stepped on,it's quite likely SIU will show how strong Khun and Rak became with BS powers by slapping gladmerry out of existence.

I doubt they'll end up being that relevant. The Regular Princesses of importance seem to be the Lo Po Bia Princesses. Gladmerry vs Rose is just a minor squabble among Regular Princesses.

I would say maschenny is like early 90s while garam is like late 70s or early 80s considering she was able to pin down evan with only her presence.And evan was stated as comparable to yuri in strength.

Garam being stronger than Maschenny is baseless in the extreme.

Again, Maschenny is canonically one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses:

 

[zoradante1]

Garam cannot be a Blue Hole. Blue Holes are people who have been inactive for several tens of thousands of years (since Ancient Times). Garam went missing less than 5,000 years ago.

Even Horn may not be a Blue Hole, let alone Garam.

There are several missing Princesses, Garam is just one of them.

What i'm trying to say garam is like blue hole rankers who are inactive for thousands of years, as such garam's combat ability is unknown so nobody can tell whether she is one of strongest zahard princess to wield 13 month series too. Nobody knows how strong garam is among resident of tower.

Garam being stronger than Maschenny is baseless in the extreme.

Again, Maschenny is

I'm saying again and again,nobody knows how strong garam is as such she isn't one of strongest 13 month series in public.

Based on feats, garam is above kallavan,maschenny,jinsung,white,yama,yas,khel hellam. Considering she only used her presence to pin down evan,and the likes of kallavan,jinsung,maschenny didn't show a feat like this since kallavan wasn't even able to pin down baam at last station.

 

[Cinera]

What i'm trying to say garam is like blue hole rankers who are inactive for thousands of years, as such garam's combat ability is unknown so nobody can tell whether she is one of strongest zahard princess to wield 13 month series too. Nobody knows how strong garam is among resident of tower.

This goes for most characters. No one know how strong the Family Heads are, yet Sachi and co still said that Eduan, Yurin and Hon were the top in melee combat.

That's just SIU given us information through his characters.

I'm saying again and again,nobody knows how strong garam is as such she isn't one of strongest 13 month series in public.

There are several missing Princesses, so I don't think this matters.

And like if you want to exclude the missing 13 Month Princesses, we would have only 6 of them and Maschenny will have to be significantly stronger than Hagipherione for Asensio's statements to be true.

There is simply no way to argue that Garam is stronger than Maschenny considering that Maschenny is one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses.

There simply aren't that many of them (Only 8 including Enne, Garam and An Zahard).

Based on feats, garam is above kallavan,maschenny,jinsung,white,yama,yas,khel hellam. Considering she only used her presence to pin down evan,and the likes of kallavan,jinsung,maschenny didn't show a feat like this since kallavan wasn't even able to pin down baam at last station.

Maschenny is not on the same tier as Corps Commanders. She's leagues beyond them.

Maschenny has simply not yet fought seriously.

 

[lazybum]

1. A lot of the princesses we don't have info on, so the ranking is to take with a grain of salt, except for few :

1) Adori
2) Enne
3) Hagripherione / Hon
4) Garam / Maschenny / Pondo
5) Yuri

Every princesses not on the list are too lacking in info to be placed.
Adori is first because she has plenty time to grow stronger than Enne, unless I'm underestimating how monstrous Enne actually is. Still Adori is the only to defeat a Ranker before being one, also overwhelmed Garam despite being a young Ranker herself.
Hagripherone was able to clear Arie Hon's challenge, that speak of her talent/power. Hon on the account of being first princess, being an Arie and is not dead(?), she ought to be strong though I'm unsure if she's better than Hagri.
I don't have a metric to measure Garam vs Mas vs Pondo, so they are together in the same rank (they have similar age range, they should be in the same tier I'm guessing).

2. Welp I don't know. I will only say Yuri seemed to get better than Mas/Garam rank, maybe close to Hagri level.

3. INB4 Adori is the child of "Boss", the one who met Dowon, on the account of her golden hair. Seriously though, we do have lots of unaccounted Irregulars, those who entered with the great warriors. Adori could be a child of one of them. Yeon Ilgard, despite not being the Yeon Hana, still sired many strong children.

4. Yuri said Karaka will be potentially a huge threat to hear if left alive, so I'd say same level as her or higher. Wangnan ... he'll be the king. The captain, not enough info but the fact he's so old and seem to be able to see the future, I'd say close to Luslec maybe?

 

[zoradante1]

I doubt they'll end up being that relevant. The Regular Princesses of importance seem to be the Lo Po Bia Princesses. Gladmerry vs Rose is just a minor squabble among Regular Princesses.

Well gladmerry will treated as "Li-li-litle children" by our milf so i doubt she will be important. twins are important for endorsi though.

 

[Cinera]

I don't have a metric to measure Garam vs Mas vs Pondo, so they are together in the same rank (they have similar age range, they should be in the same tier I'm guessing).

Here's one, Maschenny has been stated to be one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses:

Garam has not.

Hagripherone was able to clear Arie Hon's challenge, that speak of her talent/power. Hon on the account of being first princess, being an Arie and is not dead(?), she ought to be strong though I'm unsure if she's better than Hagri.

I wouldn't place Hagipherione a level above Maschenny either. There isn't really any room for that considering that Maschenny is one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses.

If Hagipherione was a level above her, she wouldn't be (there are only 8 13 Month Princesses).


Tiering wise, the 13 Month Princesses will probably be structured like this:

1. Adori and Enne
2. Hagipherione and Maschenny
3. Garam
4. An and Alphid
5. Yuri

 

[zoradante1]

This goes for most characters. No one know how strong the Family Heads are, yet Sachi and co still said that Eduan, Yurin and Hon were the top in melee combat.

That's just SIU given us information through his characters

Your way of making these comparions is awful,horrible.

Nobody knows how strong garam is why? Because nobody saw her fighting at past or current garam fighting.

On the other hand khun eduan and ha yurin is mentioned as strongest along with arie hon. Why? Because there is a fuckin ranking system out there and the one who manages ranking has the same influence as 10 family leaders as such that guy should be pretty much capable of knowing a few important info about 10 family leaders and explained why they are #5,#6,#10 so on to public.

Maschenny is not on the same tier as Corps Commanders. She's leagues beyond them.

Maschenny has simply not yet fought seriously

Bro,please give me evidence about this. Don't give half-assed though.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

I wouldn't place Hagipherione a level above Maschenny either. There isn't really any room for that considering that Maschenny is one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses.

If Hagipherione was a level above her, she wouldn't be (there are only 8 13 Month Princesses).

Asensio is thousands of years old,on the other hand Hagipherione was a regular 500-600 years ago. as such Data asensio doesn't know about hagipherione.

Garam has

Nobody knows what extent garam is capable of. Feats > Statements. And with that garam is above maschenny.

 

[Cinera]

Bro,please give me evidence about this. Don't give half-assed though.

For which statement? Maschenny not fighting seriously or Maschenny being much stronger than Corps Commanders?

For Maschenny not fighting seriously, here are stuff that we know Maschenny has, but which she has never used:

• Weapons
  • White Lance
  • Yellow May
    • Yellow May ignition
• Modes
  • Redan/Internal Quality Shinsu Control
• Techniques
  • Maschenny style fighting techniques
  • Lethal techniques
  • Grande techniques
  • Transcendental techniques

Maschenny has used only one technique (Tres Cuernos), and it was when she was fucking around with Jinsung.

Nobody knows how strong garam is why? Because nobody saw her fighting at past or current garam fighting.

Dude there are only 8 13 Month Princesses.

2 of them are missing. If you exclude the missing Princesses, we're left with 6.

If Maschenny is one of the most powerful out of those six, she must be a level above Hagipherione.


If you claim that the missing 13 Month Princesses are excluded from contention, then Maschenny is simply significantly stronger than Hagipherione. There isn't any way around it.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

Asensio is thousands of years old,on the other hand Hagipherione was a regular 500-600 years ago. as such Data asensio doesn't know about hagipherione.

No she was not. Ha Yuri Zahard was the only Princess awarded a 13 Month Weapon in the last 500 years.

Asensio is thousands of years old

Based on? There's no basis for Asensio being older than Hagipherione.

No one knows Hagipherione's age either.

Nobody knows what extent garam is capable of. Feats > Statements. And with that garam is above maschenny.

LOL no. We've never seen Maschenny fight seriously. Or even try to oppose anyone seriously.

It is impossible for Maschenny to be significantly weaker than Hagipherione who's ranked #36. They are at the very worst comparable.

 

[lazybum]

Here's one, Maschenny has been stated to be one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses:

Garam has not.



I wouldn't place Hagipherione a level above Maschenny either. There isn't really any room for that considering that Maschenny is one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses.

If Hagipherione was a level above her, she wouldn't be (there are only 8 13 Month Princesses).

1. Is Data Ascensio reliable when he's Data Mas' fanboy? As in having a bias. Also this is young Ascensio, does he really know much the ongoings of the princesses who were bestowed a 13 month series?

2. Maschenny is one of the most powerful, are these Ascensio words which I deem not reliable for the reasons above? Supposing that is true, what Maschenny has to be over Hagipherione? The only who beat Arie Hon's challenge is her and Urek an Irregular now ranked 4th, a testament of difficulty the challenge is, thus shows the sheer talent/power Hagi has. Maschenny is a top 100 and Hagi is 36, Mas can be 17 - 35 but we don't have that info so there's no reason for you to be confident that she is above Hagi.

 

[Cinera]

1. Is Data Ascensio reliable when he's Data Mas' fanboy? As in having a bias. Also this is young Ascensio, does he really know much the ongoings of the princesses who were bestowed a 13 month series?

It's SIU that gave us this information through Asensio.

How do Sachi and Co know that Eduan, Hon and Yurin are the most powerful of the Family Heads in melee combat.

Perhaps the Rankings of the Princesses are common knowledge and Maschenny is one of the higher Ranked among them, or maybe Maschenny has the combat accomplishments to merit that.

Asensio being Maschenny's fanboy doesn't really matter here. Asensio is Maschenny's fanboy because she's one of the most powerful Princesses. He wasn't just hyping her up as powerful.

The only who beat Arie Hon's challenge is her and Urek an Irregular now ranked 4th, a testament of difficulty the challenge is

No, it was never stated that they are the only ones to pass Hon's challenge.

It was said that Urek passed Hon's challenge, and that the last person to pass Hon's challenge is Hagipherione. It was never said that no one else passed Hon's challenge.

Maschenny is a top 100 and Hagi is 36, Mas can be 17 - 35 but we don't have that info so there's no reason for you to be confident that she is above Hagi.

Maschenny may in fact be ranked above Hagipherione.

 

[zoradante1]

Alright

No she was not. Ha Yuri Zahard was the only Princess awarded a 13 Month Weapon in the last 500 years.

if you look at my message i said 500-600 years, Urek was the first to pass Arie hon's test and Hagipheroine was the last person to pass this test as such Hagipheroine shouldn't be younger than asensio. Now let's discuss why asensio is much older than hagipheroine? Simple yuri took 200 years to become a ranker, and took 100 years to become a high ranker meaning even the most talented member of ha family is capable of becoming a high ranker only after 300 years and even the current yuri is incapable of oneshotting a DC . And current asensio was capable of oneshotting DC as such it would simply make him much much older than yuri. And the age gap between hagipheroine and yuri is barely a "notch",which would make asensio's knowledge limited and old.

Maschenny being much stronger than Corps Commanders

This obviously lol,everybody knows she didn't fight seriously but she ain't stronger than CC level.

Dude there are only 8 13 Month Princesses.

2 of them are missing. If you exclude the missing Princesses, we're left with 6.

If Maschenny is one of the most powerful out of those six, she must be a level above Hagipherione.


If you claim that the missing 13 Month Princesses are excluded from contention, then Maschenny is simply significantly stronger than Hagipherione. There isn't any way around it.

Bro if you don't understand my words then let's stop the fight. I'm explaining why Garam isn't mentioned as one of strongest zahard princess to wield 13 month series yet you are still making assumptions with data asensio who doesn't know anything about garam's combat ability and doesn't even know a princess like hagipheroine exists.

I'm saying again and again, nobody knows how strong garam is,as she disappeared after killing her own sister, as such nobody knows how strong garam is or knows she was capable of pin down evan with only her presence.There is almost no info about garam's combat ability

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

Maschenny may in fact be ranked above Hagipherione

She isn't. She is top 100, if you say more than top 100 or less than top 100 then it's your speculation.

 

[lazybum]

It's SIU that gave us this information through Asensio.

How? Did SIU afirmed Data Ascensio's statement in a blog post?

How do Sachi and Co know that Eduan, Hon and Yurin are the most powerful of the Family Heads in melee combat.

Perhaps the Rankings of the Princesses are common knowledge and Maschenny is one of the higher Ranked among them, or maybe Maschenny has the combat accomplishments to merit that.

They are the great warriors, there are likely countless stories about them.

We know that Maschenny is top 100, we know she is accomplished individual. But that doesn't prove her to be above every princess barring Enne and Adori.

Asensio being Maschenny's fanboy doesn't really matter here. Asensio is Maschenny's fanboy because she's one of the most powerful Princesses. He wasn't just hyping her up as powerful.

Data Ascensio knows outisde (and Data) Mas is strong, but that doesn't stop him from being biased. Why can't Data Ascensio be mistaken? Data Ascensio is pre ranker, his knowledge upon saved is limited. The new info he can get are from people that come after him, and he can't even verify those info because he's stuck in the data world. His knowledge is pretty unreliable unless you say SIU supported what he said.

No, it was never stated that they are the only ones to pass Hon's challenge.

It was said that Urek passed Hon's challenge, and that the last person to pass Hon's challenge is Hagipherione. It was never said that no one else passed Hon's challenge.

True, my mistake.

Maschenny may in fact be ranked above Hagipherione.

But we don't know, why are you confident she is above?

 

[Cinera]

if you look at my message i said 500-600 years, Urek was the first to pass Arie hon's test and Hagipheroine was the last person to pass this test as such Hagipheroine shouldn't be younger than asensio.

No, the 500 - 600 year timeline is simply impossible.

Hagipherione's age isn't consistent if you assume she took Hon's test after Urek.

Yuri was present at the planting of Wolhaiksong. So Yuri was already a Ranker when Wolhaiksong was founded. Yuri was also present when Phantaminum raided Zahard's castle. Urek entered the Tower after Phantaminum. Yuri started climbing shortly after/alongside Urek (though she completed it later).

Yuri received her 13 Months 100 years after becoming a Ranker. Yuri received her 13 Month within the last 500 years (and is the only Princess to do so).

Hagipherione did not.

Princesses are selected once every several hundred years, so there's a significant gap between Hagipherione and Yuri, but Yuri became a Ranker shortly after Urek.

Hagipherione became a Ranker at least a few hundred years before Yuri. Ergo, Hagipherione became a Ranker before Urek.

White also implied that he met Urek on the Hell Train, so if Hagipherione is the one who defeated White, she also took Hon's test before Urek.


There's a few options:

1. Hagipherione was the last person to take Hon's test before Urek.
2. The timeline of Hagipherione taking Hon's test after Urek has been completely retconned.

Whichever way it is, it's literally impossible for Hagipherione to take Hon's test after Urek.

In the actual webtoon, there's no 13 Month Arie Princess that took Hon's test after Urek. The one Arie Princess that was mentioned (the one that defeated White), fought White before Urek even entered the Tower.

This obviously lol,everybody knows she didn't fight seriously but she ain't stronger than CC level.

She is. SIU said that he needs to power up Baam in order to tell the story of the Princesses and the 10 Families. The Princesses in general are above the Corps Commanders and Maschenny is one of the most powerful among them.

I'm explaining why Garam isn't mentioned as one of strongest zahard princess to wield 13 month series

Because she isn't that strong.

and doesn't even know a princess like hagipheroine exists.

Baseless. It's based on your assumptions about Hagipherione's age, but that timeline is inconsistent.

I'm saying again and again, nobody knows how strong garam is,as she disappeared after killing her own sister, as such nobody knows how strong garam is or knows she was capable of pin down evan with only her presence.There is almost no info about garam's combat ability

That changes nothing.

There are only 8 13 Month Princesses. Two of them are missing.

So if you want to say that Maschenny is one of the most powerful out of 6, that necessitates her being stronger than Hagipherione.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

She isn't. She is top 100, if you say more than top 100 or less than top 100 then it's your speculation.

#31 is still Top 100, as is #55, #79 and #99. We don't know where in the Top 100 Maschenny lies.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

The captain, not enough info but the fact he's so old and seem to be able to see the future, I'd say close to Luslec maybe?

You could say a little TOO close...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2021 ---

@Cinera and @zoradante1 ... you two are cute how you get along for a second and then butt heads.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2021 ---

re: blue holes.

I'd have to go back and check on the definition.

I'm not sure if it was stated that a.) ONLY those that went silent from the ancient times became blue holes (but that could be the case).

As opposed to

b.) ALL the ones that went silent from ancient times became blue holes.

A small distinction.

But, b.) leaves room for characters that went silent at later points could in theory also become blue holes as well.

For instance, 10k years after 'Genesis' could still be tens of thousands of years ago from present Tower time.

Say it's been 50k years since Genesis.

If someone went silent 40k years ago, that would still qualify as off the radar for a REALLY long time.




In short, if blue holes aren't limited to the times of genesis alone, the at what point does someone being MIA get them a possible blue hole status? 1k years? 5k years? 10k?

Missing or presumed dead for a longgggg time should qualify as a blue hole.




That said, it's kind of an arbitrary semantics issue anyways. Someone could lose a position for being MIA and still not be a 'blue hole' if it only pertained to Genesis era.

Out of commission/missing/presumed dead for many a year is still the same thing as MIA/presumed dead - it's just we're talking about different degrees of how long they've been missing.

Is it enough for them to lose status/ranking (irrespective of what they're called) is all that matters.





Oh, and you'd think Zahard, now awake (though he was never asleep it seems), would have recognized Khel's presence somehow and alerted the RAO. Since he's the only confirmed blue hole, maybe he'll lose that status soon as he's been picked up active again.

 

[Cinera]

We know that Maschenny is top 100, we know she is accomplished individual. But that doesn't prove her to be above every princess barring Enne and Adori.

We were told that she's one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses. There are only 8 13 Month Princesses, one is missing and another is in hiding.

So Maschenny is the next highest tier of 13 Month Princess after Adori and Enne.

Data Ascensio knows outisde (and Data) Mas is strong, but that doesn't stop him from being biased. Why can't Data Ascensio be mistaken? Data Ascensio is pre ranker, his knowledge upon saved is limited. The new info he can get are from people that come after him, and he can't even verify those info because he's stuck in the data world. His knowledge is pretty unreliable unless you say SIU supported what he said.

So Sachi and Boro's claims that Hon, Eduan and Yurin are the Top 3 in melee combat should be unreliable as well.

At least the Princesses have fought against each other in living memory. The Great Warriors have been inactive for several tens of thousands of years.

But we don't know, why are you confident she is above?

I'm not confident that she's above, I actually place them on the same level, see:

Tiering wise, the 13 Month Princesses will probably be structured like this:

1. Adori and Enne
2. Hagipherione and Maschenny
3. Garam
4. An and Alphid
5. Yuri

I just think it's impossible for her to be a level below.

How? Did SIU afirmed Data Ascensio's statement in a blog post?

SIU didn't affirm Sachi and Boro's statements about Eduan either.

We had Sachi and Boro provide hype for the outside Eduan, and Asensio provide hype for the outside Maschenny. Likewise we had Kiseia and AA provide hype for the outside Asensio.

SIU went out of his way to hype all three of them:

• Eduan
  • He's the greatest Spear Bearer in the Tower.
  • He's Top 3 in melee combat among the 10 Family Leaders.
• Asensio
  • He's the Spear Master
  • He formed his own faction in the Khun Family
• Maschenny
  • She's one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses

I think it's ridiculous that everyone considers the statements about Eduan and Asensio to be legitimate, but the lone claim about Maschenny to be false. That makes no sense from a narrative perspective.

I see no reason to doubt Asensio's statements about who Maschenny is on the outside, so until shown otherwise, I'm treating it as canon.

 

[lazybum]

We were told that she's one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses. There are only 8 13 Month Princesses, one is missing and another is in hiding.

So Maschenny is the next highest tier of 13 Month Princess after Adori and Enne.

"One of the most powerful 13 month princesses", does this statement refer to active princesses (not deceased, not missing, not sealed), or of all princesses of all time?

- On the former, we have Adori, Hagipherione, Maschenny and Yuri. Adori is the strongest, Yuri is a newcomer, that leaves Hagi and Mas. In that case that would be Maschenny, Adori and Maschenny are the "most powerful 13 month princesses".
- If it's the latter, then we don't know how big the basket "one of the most" is. Could be 2 princesses, 3, 4 ... and because we don't know, we can't really measure Maschenny's place among the "most powerful 13 month princesses". She could be the weakest "on of the most powerful 13 month princesses", in the middle but not high tier (that belongs to Adori and Enne).

So Sachi and Boro's claims that Hon, Eduan and Yurin are the Top 3 in melee combat should be unreliable as well.

They don't have first hand info on any great warriors, they only hear hearsay so yes. Yet we have other info that give credibility on what they said, well at least 2, Arie Hon and Ha Yurin favor positions that are melee centric and their way of battle is close quarter style. Arie Hon is ranked 5 and Ha Yurin is ranked 10, although the rank is not pure combat prowess stat, they are still ranked higher than other great warriors (Hon, Yurin and Eduan are the top 3 great warriors, Zahard aside).
Eduan is a spear bearer, but also fight as fisherman, he himself is described as battle junkie, so he is likely good in melee too. At very least Data Eduan seems to fight Data Zahard evenly in melee, showing he's no slouch in that regard.

At least the Princesses have fought against each other in living memory. The Great Warriors have been inactive for several tens of thousands of years.

And despite being inactive, no one tries to challenge a great warrior. The only one we know is Urek and maybe some people in the workshop. FUG is just being a nuisance, like a fly buzzing around you.

I'm not confident that she's above, I actually place them on the same level, see:

I just think it's impossible for her to be a level below.

Fair enough. It's not like I can prove for sure Hagi is above Maschenny either. SIU is withholding her rank for some reason despite being in the story since the beginning and featured heavily in the nest war, unlike Hagi.

SIU didn't affirm Sachi and Boro's statements about Eduan either.

We had Sachi and Boro provide hype for the outside Eduan, and Asensio provide hype for the outside Maschenny. Likewise we had Kiseia and AA provide hype for the outside Asensio.

SIU went out of his way to hype all three of them:

• Eduan
  • He's the greatest Spear Bearer in the Tower.
  • He's Top 3 in melee combat among the 10 Family Leaders.
• Asensio
  • He's the Spear Master
  • He formed his own faction in the Khun Family
• Maschenny
  • She's one of the most powerful 13 Month Princesses

I think it's ridiculous that everyone considers the statements about Eduan and Asensio to be legitimate, but the lone claim about Maschenny to be false. That makes no sense from a narrative perspective.

I see no reason to doubt Asensio's statements about who Maschenny is on the outside, so until shown otherwise, I'm treating it as canon.

Data Ascensio can't get info of the state of the outside by himself, he can only get info from people that pass through the hidden floor. Some people likely told him the ranking over the years (more like he interrogated them probably), and Data Ascensio heard that Maschenny was rated high even among the princess. The thing is, we don't know if Data Ascensio got the latest ranking (when was the last info he got? did the ranking changed between the last time he bothered to check and the present?). We don't know for sure how reliable is what he said, so I'm not putting too much stock in Data Ascensio's words.

Jinsung however is much more a reliable source and he did praise Maschenny as a dragon tier. For someone who used to know the great warriors, being strong himself and lived a long time, it's a very high praise. Though I am still too unsure to really quantify between her, Garam and Hagi (my opinon of her is revised due to my mistake). They could be in the same tier for all I know.

After looking back my new ranking would be :

1) Adori
2) Enne
3) Hagripherione / Garam / Maschenny
4) Pondo
5) Yuri

I've decided to retire Arie Hon Zahard, to be honest I'm not too sure about her. She's not talked like Adori vs Enne so perhaps she's not on their level, she's old being the first princess, she is talented enough to be chosen as a princess, she's an Arie so she ought to have strong combat prowess from her bloodline, it's not known if she earned a 13 month series.

Pondo is old and participated in stopping Enne, but doesn't have a 13 month series it seems? At very least she is more established than Yuri at this moment.