One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

@albertwv If you think Ace = Smoker. Well Ok so be it. But that means a lot of the manga is lost upon. Because that’s is by no means a true statement.

Ace was obviously stronger than Smoker, & was toying around with him; As their DF canceled out. Haki wasn’t by any means a concept used in the manga at the time.

Multiple events have happened with Ace & Smoker; Smoker couldn’t defeat Vergo, Law Or Doffy after the TS. Ace was a while commander of the WBP

 

[LaGOAT]

Are they equals though?

If yes, why was WB called WSM when Roger was alive?

Manga makes it seem like Roger >= WB
Vivre card makes it seem like WB >= Roger

But yea, what is sure is that the gap between them is miniscule.



Ehh, I don't think it was because of fruit. It was def because of overall PL

Like, some fodder having this fruit wouldn't be called WSM for instance.

The difference is ambition Roger wanted to be a pirate King whitebeard just wanted to have a family so by title Pirate King sounds better than the world strongest man manga stated many times that Rogers and whitebeard were equals even when they fought both were equals

 

[M3J]

The whole power level label like "shichibukai level" and "supernova level" is dumb, honestly, because as we saw there's no set strength. Buggy is weak, but he's still a shichibukai, while Kidd had the highest bounty out of the Supernovas because of his tendency to cause destruction, not because he was stronger. I think only Emperor and Admiral level strength make sense because to be either, the character actually has to be powerful.

 

[AmitDS]

I dont like referencing VC, I told you because it gives off confusing information. I remembered it said Shanks was a Yonko when he met Luffy but the actual manga said 6 years ago. Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos and it was 3 Billion. Now we see how incorrect it was.

Do you have a source for that? lol The translations I read (Library of Ohara) didn't have Shanks' bounty or say that he had the highest Yonkou bounty and iirc, I don't think it mentioned the year he became a Yonkou either. Maybe the translations you read were a bit crude? xD

 

[Mopopolis]

Do you have a source for that? lol The translations I read (Library of Ohara) didn't have Shanks' bounty or said that he had the highest Yonkou bounty and iirc, I don't think it mentioned the year he became a Yonkou either. Maybe the translations you read were a bit crude? xD

Chapter 957 revealed that Shanks became an Emperor 6 years ago (6 years after he first met Luffy) that was the chapter when his bounty of 4,048,900,000 Billion was revealed.

 

[AmitDS]

Chapter 957 revealed that Shanks became an Emperor 6 years ago (6 years after he first met Luffy) that was the chapter when his bounty of 4,048,900,000 Billion was revealed.

Lol I meant his source for the vivre card revealing this info (he claimed this was in a VC)

 

[Mopopolis]

Lol I meant his source for the vivre card revealing this info (he claimed this was in a VC)

Oh sorry, my mistake!

 

[Fox666]

I dont like referencing VC, I told you because it gives off confusing information. I remembered it said Shanks was a Yonko when he met Luffy but the actual manga said 6 years ago. Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos and it was 3 Billion. Now we see how incorrect it was.

The Vivre Card stated Shanks was an Emperor in chapter 1.

In a specieal section in Shonen Jump, following the reveal of Blackbeard's bounty, an editor guessed the other Emperors also had bounties above 2 billion and he had the feeling Shanks was the highest one.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Im not saying Ace = Smoker, nope not at all. I was pointing out the differences between Pre TS Smoker vs Ace and Post TS Smoker vs Doffy. Because Doffy is clearly YC3 and why Ace is barely YC3 or above.

I point out that in Ace vs Smoker, Im sure Ace would have beaten Smoker, but why didnt he? It should have been an easy fight for Ace who apparently knew haki and was stronger than Jimbei. Take the haki consideration out since Haki wasnt a real thing back then yet. Ace should have still beaten Smoker rather easier than what their fight showed. The fight showed them as equals in a way, both couldnt get past each other IIRC. I say again, I do NOT believe Ace = Smoker. Smoker was chasing trying to capture Luffy, Ace's little brother and we know how important Luffy is to Ace, so why didnt Ace just beat up Smoker instead of running away.
The admiral/VA back up theory is bullshit. Ace did not care if he beat up Smoker and then an admiral would have been dispatched. By then Ace and the SHs would have been long gone and plus Ace was not scared of an Admiral.

Doffy decimated Smoker fairly easy, and this was a Smoker who was stronger. So I dont see how Ace would have been able to defeat Doffy. I dont know how people see that that is possible, simply because he fought Jimbei years ago, now he is stronger? I dont see Jimbei defeating Doffy either. nope. Those would be extremely diff fights for Doffy but he would win.

One last thing on Ace vs Aokiji, we have seen how Aokiji fared agaisnt Akainu a clearly superior DF user to both Aokiji and Ace. Aokiji and Akainu seem equals. Then we see how Akainu vs Ace ended. So why do people think Ace = Aokiji or near Aokiji's level simply because his Fire DF negated one Ice Attack from Aokiji. It makes no sense. If Aokji was serious he would have killed Ace just like Akainu did, well with a little bit more difficulty but still.

Regarding WB vs Roger debate,
@grey matter I dont know where you get the Vivre card info, but in the manga it simply states WB was the WSM. The manga does not explain when he got that title, if he got it after Rogers death or before. I am going to assume he got it afterwards until stated otherwise. Why? Because we knew for sures he was WSM 2 years ago, thats it.
I dont like referencing VC, I told you because it gives off confusing information. I remembered it said Shanks was a Yonko when he met Luffy but the actual manga said 6 years ago. Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos and it was 3 Billion. Now we see how incorrect it was.

IMO, Roger > WB, just slightly.

Comparing Smoker and Ace vs Smoker vs Doffy is hilarious because Ace wasn't concerned with beating Smoker.

 

[albertwv]

@XXGenesis did you not read the first sentence? I feel like people do not understand my whole post at all.

I DO NOT THINK Ace = Smoker at all. I say again I DO NOT THINK Ace = Smoker.

I brought up the differences in between Smoker vs Ace and Smoker vs Doffy. Smoker was trying to capture Luffy, and we have seen how protective Ace is towards his little brother. So why would Ace NOT want to kick Smoker's ass?
@Crimson Ice Remember the Bluejam incident and with Dadan. Yeah. You cant say Ace did not want to kick Smoker's ass.

But I only brought up this argument to claim that Ace is not superior to Doffy's level. We've seen other YC3+ characters do better feats than Ace. Can anybody explain how Ace could be YC1 or even YC2.

Also, @AmitDS, no I cannot pull up the vivre card reference because I do not look up vivre cards. I remember somebody posted it on this OP forum, either on a chapter discussion thread or on this same discussion thread. I do not bother with anything outside the actual manga. I recommend everybody to do the same. Only reference from the manga, it is safe to say that information is 1000% accurate.
@Fox666 thank you for explaining that.

 

[Crimson Ice]

@XXGenesis did you not read the first sentence? I feel like people do not understand my whole post at all.

I DO NOT THINK Ace = Smoker at all. I say again I DO NOT THINK Ace = Smoker.

I brought up the differences in between Smoker vs Ace and Smoker vs Doffy. Smoker was trying to capture Luffy, and we have seen how protective Ace is towards his little brother. So why would Ace NOT want to kick Smoker's ass?
@Crimson Ice Remember the Bluejam incident and with Dadan. Yeah. You cant say Ace did not want to kick Smoker's ass.

But I only brought up this argument to claim that Ace is not superior to Doffy's level. We've seen other YC3+ characters do better feats than Ace. Can anybody explain how Ace could be YC1 or even YC2.

Also, @AmitDS, no I cannot pull up the vivre card reference because I do not look up vivre cards. I remember somebody posted it on this OP forum, either on a chapter discussion thread or on this same discussion thread. I do not bother with anything outside the actual manga. I recommend everybody to do the same. Only reference from the manga, it is safe to say that information is 1000% accurate.
@Fox666 thank you for explaining that.

He didn't, Ace showed no type of anger towards Smoker, in fact, the fight itself never happens in the manga LMAO. Ace just blocks the Navy from pursuing Luffy. Using an incident from child Ace where Luffy was beaten to a bloody pulp isn't good evidence LMAO.

P.S. The famous our abilities won't get us anywhere line is different per translation. One translation flat out has Ace say that his ability is superior to Smoker's.

Spoiler: Ace shitting on smoke

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2021 ---

Ace vs Smoker is still being used against Ace IN BIG 2021. That's hilarious. Ace didn't care about beating Smoker and only wanted Luffy to escape. I guess Dragon couldn't even beat Smoker easily in Logue Town or Boa couldn't easily beat Smoker at Marineford

 

[grey matter]

Actually, where do I find these vivre cards (searching online didn't help me)?

Are they written by Oda himself?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2021 ---

The whole power level label like "shichibukai level" and "supernova level" is dumb, honestly, because as we saw there's no set strength. Buggy is weak, but he's still a shichibukai, while Kidd had the highest bounty out of the Supernovas because of his tendency to cause destruction, not because he was stronger. I think only Emperor and Admiral level strength make sense because to be either, the character actually has to be powerful.

Definitely.

I would put Yonko commander level also there, along with admiral and Yonko. You have to be very strong to be a commander. Though there are more variations within commanders, than within admirals or Yonkos, so maybe debatable

"Shichibukai tier", "Vice admiral tier", "Supernova tier" etc means nothing at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2021 ---

The difference is ambition Roger wanted to be a pirate King whitebeard just wanted to have a family so by title Pirate King sounds better than the world strongest man manga stated many times that Rogers and whitebeard were equals even when they fought both were equals

Ok, the thing is

PK is a title for accomplishment

WSM is a title indicating power level. WSM > PK when it comes to power level comparison. I'm not talking about clout, infamy or anything. just pure power level here

If WB indeed had the title of WSM when Roger was alive, then WB >= Roger

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2021 ---

Regarding WB vs Roger debate,
@grey matter I dont know where you get the Vivre card info, but in the manga it simply states WB was the WSM. The manga does not explain when he got that title, if he got it after Rogers death or before. I am going to assume he got it afterwards until stated otherwise. Why? Because we knew for sures he was WSM 2 years ago, thats it.
I dont like referencing VC, I told you because it gives off confusing information. I remembered it said Shanks was a Yonko when he met Luffy but the actual manga said 6 years ago. Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos and it was 3 Billion. Now we see how incorrect it was.

IMO, Roger > WB, just slightly.

I don't know either. I searched online for vivre cards, but couldn't find them. All I did find was a reddit post referencing the vivre card which stated WB had the title of WSM when Roger was still alive

I would agree with Roger being slightly ahead of WB based on everything I saw in manga,
But if Vivre card is actually telling the truth, then WB is slightly ahead of Roger

 

[BoyNextDoor]

ace is YC1 level EASY. end of debate

 

[Sachsenhesse]

ace is YC1 level EASY. end of debate

And here i always thought girls next door were the naive ones.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

And here i always thought girls next door were the naive ones.

whitebeard had a crazy crew with at least 3/4 yc1 level guys. marco, ace, blackbeard, vista....noone below any of them could have handled whitebeard the way ace did in that episode of ace story. and the cherry on top was aces clash with aokiji... thinking ace is anything lower than yc2 is a crime against humanity

 

[Sachsenhesse]

whitebeard had a crazy crew with at least 3/4 yc1 level guys. marco, ace, blackbeard, vista....noone below any of them could have handled whitebeard the way ace did in that episode of ace story. and the cherry on top was aces clash with aokiji... thinking ace is anything lower than yc2 is a crime against humanity

As a german i am kinda used to crimes against humanity.

Ace drawed with Smoker. Had a little skirmish with Aokiji were he had probably even luck that fire>ice. Lost hard to Blackbeard, latter didnt even had wounds and scratches. Got oneshot by Akainu.

But jeah YC1 for sure. Even Queen showed more prowess.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

As a german i am kinda used to crimes against humanity.

Ace drawed with Smoker. Had a little skirmish with Aokiji were he had probably even luck that fire>ice. Lost hard to Blackbeard, latter didnt even had wounds and scratches. Got oneshot by Akainu.

But jeah YC1 for sure. Even Queen showed more prowess.

bruh ace was wayyyyy too strong for that part of the story so he was nerfed. If ace was scaled properly, that boy smoker would have been nothing but his cigarette left. Facts.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

bruh ace was wayyyyy too strong for that part of the story so he was nerfed. If ace was scaled properly, that boy smoker would have been nothing but his cigarette left. Facts.

Thats some copium my friend. "He couldnt beat this guy, so he was nerfed"

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Thats some copium my friend. "He couldnt beat this guy, so he was nerfed"

wrong

 

[grey matter]

People pretending like Ace was actually trying to kill or even defeat Smoker