Bam, who was alone all his life has entered the tower to chase after his only friend, Rachel, but how will he survive without having any special strength or power?“What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever...
OK, fair enough about Doom's mom. I'm assuming your research is correct though. Wings are odd in that case.
However.
NN doesn't have ANY animal traits. At all. Only the horn, which we've seen in other natives in the Tower. It's not, say, crocodile features and then randomly a horn, or feathers, or wings on top of the obvious primary animal traits. It's just a normal looking human with a horn.
And if NN is an experiment, how did she escape, with memories of growing up elsewhere, outside of the LPB ship?
And you still haven't solved the mystery of why the Acrinak would choose NN of all people, which it recognizes as 'weak'. It's last house was a Slayer - a mansion by comparison the the shack that is NN. So, why her if she is not special in any way at all?
Nen has a canine tail and ears lol! When her and WW 1st began she complained that she would be an experiment for the rest of her life, how would she know that unless she already experienced it! She most likely was an earlier test subject(before Yas and WW), that somehow received ancient while she was climbing the tower. The soldier probably went after her telling her to return which she refused and Traum sent forces to retrieve her!
Whoa, based on what exactly? Every Native One (a type of ancient) is in an extremely-strong host, it seems they either have to be or that is the choice of the spirit for best chances to survive or succeed at their goals.
This Acrinak isn't a Native One, but the only other similar ancient we've seen. And it has gone from a Slayer to another Slayer coincidentally enough, with only one lost generation in between.
It's a theme that they are in stronger hosts than not. Although our sample size is admittedly low.
But we don't know if natural or lab-made. She doesn't have memories of being controlled by the LPB or escaping. The forces were there for the Acrinak, not her. She's not likely an escapee.
And then there's the obvious that she's different from every other lab-made beastkin in the sense that we can't tell what animal she is, if any.
I think there are simply animal hybrids in the tower naturally. I mean, I thought this was established from 1F onward.
My read on past events is that there were no natural born beastkin. They were all commissioned by traumerei basically.... One alternative I've been considering is that NN is some other manner of hybrid. Most beastkin are human/animal hybrids. Maybe NN is a non-human/animal hybrid. Since the tower is packed with humanoid species. Alternatively maybe NN is indeed part human but her animal part is not from a conventional animal. Maybe some variety of shineuh? As far as I could google the only animal in nature with a single horn is a variety of rhinoceros. Her ears could conceivably bit into that.
There's plenty of hybrids in the tower though most are probably the result of sentient intelligent beings getting it on. Beastkin seem to be a mixture between intelligent and non intelligent beings.
What after WW is dead? So how did Doom get his? And how the hell can Yas steal a Fang with the FH right there lol! Why would the FH allow Yas to take it and become untamable???
To be fair, SIU has been bad at drawing distinct animal ears and tails. We don't know if those ears are cats, dogs, mice, fox, or what. Similar with the tails. They are just generic 'animal' tails and ears until proven otherwise.
Yas, who has literally created cat people before and would recognize one, never once says she's a cat-kin, or recognizes her as one. As much as we see playful banter and simulated animosity between the cats and dogs with WW and Yas, neither once mentions the oddity of WW, a dog, getting with a cat-kin if that is indeed the case.
When her and WW 1st began she complained that she would be an experiment for the rest of her life, how would she know that unless she already experienced it!
She most likely was an earlier test subject(before Yas and WW), that somehow received ancient while she was climbing the tower. The soldier probably went after her telling her to return which she refused and Traum sent forces to retrieve her!
The second part of this certainly isn't true. Zahard didn't send ships and show in a holo-form for a mere escapee of Rei's. Their focus was on the Acrinak pure and simple.
The entire flashback is from Yasratcha's pov, maybe when Yama has his 3 fangs or his 2 fangs and Yas's have some sort of resonance, as is common in other stories, we'll get a glimpse of WW's pov and things like the fangs be more details.
BTW, depending on the events, this FB should last 2 more chapters, showing the escape, Yas going to the army and the like.
So we should have something of the fangs in the meantime.
My read on past events is that there were no natural born beastkin. They were all commissioned by traumerei basically.... One alternative I've been considering is that NN is some other manner of hybrid. Most beastkin are human/animal hybrids. Maybe NN is a non-human/animal hybrid. Since the tower is packed with humanoid species. Alternatively maybe NN is indeed part human but her animal part is not from a conventional animal. Maybe some variety of shineuh? As far as I could google the only animal in nature with a single horn is a variety of rhinoceros. Her ears could conceivably bit into that.
There's plenty of hybrids in the tower though most are probably the result of sentient intelligent beings getting it on. Beastkin seem to be a mixture between intelligent and non intelligent beings.
I'm not sure I follow where you guys get that most, if not all, humanoid hybrids in the tower were created.
- we know that beasts roamed free, of all types, prior to the OG13
- we know that intelligent life existed
- we even know there are species that are different from humans entirely, like that multi-eyed thing that is harmless and was a chef on the earlier floors
- we've seen goro-like peeps on 2F
- Gyetang is a chicken/person, but more birdlike than the beastkin are like their animal counterparts. It would make no sense if creations are made and just randomly dropped off in the tower.
...
- NN, through her ancient knowledge from Acrinak, even goes to say there were mechanical beings and beings that came from flowers in long-ancient history, prior to the OG13.
Now,
Maybe this is the work of GongBang, who also seem to have been around forever (and outside and into other towers even). Maybe the whole tower itself is.
To be fair, SIU has been bad at drawing distinct animal ears and tails. We don't know if those ears are cats, dogs, mice, fox, or what. Similar with the tails. They are just generic 'animal' tails and ears until proven otherwise.
Yas, who has literally created cat people before and would recognize one, never once says she's a cat-kin, or recognizes her as one. As much as we see playful banter and simulated animosity between the cats and dogs with WW and Yas, neither once mentions the oddity of WW, a dog, getting with a cat-kin if that is indeed the case.
She talked about her life outside, no? I mean, if you're captor it seems you probably have a pretty good idea what's in store for you.
Lol she has the same tail as WW! And Yas never made claim she was a beastmen but he also never made claim against it lol! She was free and like Yas and WW spent hundreds of years climbing the tower, so of course she has memories she can reflect on!
The second part of this certainly isn't true. Zahard didn't send ships and show in a holo-form for a mere escapee of Rei's. Their focus was on the Acrinak pure and simple.
I'm not sure I follow where you guys get that most, if not all, humanoid hybrids in the tower were created.
- we know that beasts roamed free, of all types, prior to the OG13
- we know that intelligent life existed
- we even know there are species that are different from humans entirely, like that multi-eyed thing that is harmless and was a chef on the earlier floors
- we've seen goro-like peeps on 2F
- Gyetang is a chicken/person, but more birdlike than the beastkin are like their animal counterparts. It would make no sense if creations are made and just randomly dropped off in the tower.
...
- NN, through he ancient knowledge from Acrinak, even goes to say there were mechanical beings and beings that came from flowers in long-ancient history, prior to the OG13.
Now,
Maybe this is the work of GongBang, who also seem to have been around forever (and outside and into other towers even). Maybe the whole tower itself is.
My post was specifically about beastkin, not all tower hybrids. Earlier in the flashback the point was made that beastkin were made so that the LPB would have humans it can control. It doesn't sound like beastkin were a naturally occurring species in the tower.
@Jubei_Kibagami I just remembered, Yama was sleeping like a rock when Yasratcha found them and wouldn't wake up at all, another point for Acrinak's theory.
Everyone was there to fight the Acrinak. That much is certain. You think Zahard cares one bit about some rando escapee of Rei's?
They didn't 'leave her alone' - Owl was just starting to swoop in to continue the fight. They would have taken her, and by extension the Acrinak, by force if need be (if they could). She came willingly so they didn't have to resort to that. But she's still a captive.
Of course Rei wanted WW to mate (again). But the focus was on WW having another baby, not she having one. You think it's coincidence she had the Acrinak in her? Like Rei was just going to let her go after shitting out a child for him? Here's a monstrous, ancient power but Rei doesn't care because the 'weak' host was his goal all along?
My post was specifically about beastkin, not all tower hybrids. Earlier in the flashback the point was made that beastkin were made so that the LPB would have humans it can control. It doesn't sound like beastkin were a naturally occurring species in the tower.
What if it's a species too old that they don't have data, or does it just look like a beastkin? Being actually a descendant of Acrinak?
We've seen hybrids and humanoids from the start, but not all of them must have their origins in the Workshop.
Xia Xia = Descendant of the Workshop beastkin
Anak and Parakewl= any humanoids from the tower.
Btw, do you think Xia xia would be able to develop a transformation? Or that the other beastkin that climbed the tower at the same time as WW and Yas are still alive?
My post was specifically about beastkin, not all tower hybrids. Earlier in the flashback the point was made that beastkin were made so that the LPB would have humans it can control. It doesn't sound like beastkin were a naturally occurring species in the tower.
But... beastkin ARE (human-animal) hybrids. That's literally what they are. This is getting into an issue of semantics. If Tower hybrids exist, and are more exotic than the clean-cut examples made by the LPB, then it's likely that NN is one of those tower hybrids to begin with - seeing as escaping is very unlikely and she's not a clear example of an animal hybrid AND they seem to be naturally occuring in the tower.
No mention of her escaping, or being recaptured, or 'good work team, we got the bitch that ran away' or anything.
Beaskin and 'animal-human hybrid' are essentially interchangeable terms.
It's like naturally-occurring diamonds and lab-made diamonds. They are still diamonds, made by compressing Carbon atoms with a lot of heat and pressure until they are forced into a matrix arrangement.
@Jubei_Kibagami I just remembered, Yama was sleeping like a rock when Yasratcha found them and wouldn't wake up at all, another point for Acrinak's theory.
Acrinak entered Yama while sleeping too. IIRC. Could have had profound effects on him later in life as something traumatic happened during that phase in his childhood.
Whoa, based on what exactly? Every Native One (a type of ancient) is in an extremely-strong host, it seems they either have to be or that is the choice of the spirit for best chances to survive or succeed at their goals.
This Acrinak isn't a Native One, but the only other similar ancient we've seen. And it has gone from a Slayer to another Slayer coincidentally enough, with only one lost generation in between.
It's a theme that they are in stronger hosts than not. Although our sample size is admittedly low.
Not sure. But it certainly seems Yama is 'madder' and wilder than the other two, no?
Acrinak entered Yama while sleeping too. IIRC. Could have had profound effects on him later in life as something traumatic happened during that phase in his childhood.
It’s funny b/c this point is where Doom’s fb begins for their escape from training camp! In S3ch58 Yama is awake but S3ch84 Yama is back asleep!
Since Yas knew about the outer area and of FUG, I’m guessing he’s the one that led the children there.
What if it's a species too old that they don't have data, or does it just look like a beastkin? Being actually a descendant of Acrinak?
We've seen hybrids and humanoids from the start, but not all of them must have their origins in the Workshop.
Xia Xia = Descendant of the Workshop beastkin
Anak and Parakewl= any humanoids from the tower.
Btw, do you think Xia xia would be able to develop a transformation? Or that the other beastkin that climbed the tower at the same time as WW and Yas are still alive?
Personally, I think a hybrid of these two-seemingly opposing theories (hybrid creatures all being native to the tower and hybrid creatures largely or entirely being created) is the most apropriate.
I think GongBang, the Workshop, created the tower and 'seeded' it. As an experiment or to create an axis or who the hell knows.
- we know GB is ancient, and preceded even the OG13
- we know GB is rumored to exist outside the tower, and possibly into other towers as well
- we know GB has access to tech it should not have, such as the ability to create mini or pocket floors, mini-admin, and shinwonryu which is a function of complete mastery of shinsoo which only those from outside the tower should be able to do (hello if GB is from outside the tower). This strongly implies GB either can recreate what they discovered in the tower, or more likely IMO created all the shit we know inside the tower to begin with, admin included (and they can create more)
...
- combined with Acrinak's ancient knowledge that there were MECHANICAL beings at the beginning of tower time. Now, if that isn't obviously a creation idk what is. Mechanical beings are not something that would come from nature.
I tell you now, even though it will take a real-life decade to prove true, anyone that argues that the FHs/Zahard are only threatened by other irregulars really isn't seeing the big picture. The rules were put in place... by admin. Well, that means admin or admin tech can undo those rules. If admin were created by an ancient organization shrouded in mystery, they can be uncreated or mitigated all the same. You have to consider what it is that actually enforces the immortality contracts, and then consider what could go wrong with that. We've already seen that admin can be made. And killed. Neither of which should be possible. We've seen creations that bend and break the rules of the tower. You'd have to be really close-minded and narrowly-focused on the 'rules' of the Tower only to miss the hints and breadcrumbs SIU has been dropping. Autistic reading...
Further, the native one (and its constituents - firephant and grassbull and rockrodile) really seems to take after the admin. Look at what the admin was on FoD - a bunch of GIGANTIC FUCKING ANIMALS. Similar scale. Animals. Implying they are related IMO.
Soooo, if the Native One was a baby or little brother admin, it could threaten contracts which are only in force by the power of... admin. We even see from FoD that admin can have life-cycles.
I mean, but what you SAID was 'most' and now it should be common.
It's so "common" that out of 5 or 6 ancients we only really see one host considered 'weak'? Rak is in the middle - he's obviously weak as a regular, but he's in baby mode and clearly can't access all his power. Just his arms coming online was monsterous. Until he grows up or unseals or both he's 'weak'. NN likely could never match Rak's full potential though.
If the ancients have been around for 10's of thousands of years, and are rather limited in numbers, then they should have all already migrated to stronger hosts. Finding one in a weak host should be a relative rarity, and a temp stop to the next strong host, same as we see with the Acrinak: Slayer - weak host - Slayer.
Which is exactly what we see playing out. They are almost entirely in strong hosts. And if in a weak host, like NN, it's a temp stop between strong hosts (I can't keep mentioning the previous host was a Slayer as well, not just some nobody). It's just a weekend visit, not the normal way of living.
Now if the ancient spirits were JUST dropped in the tower, sure. They'd take what they could get. But, they've had plenty of time to find nice homes. A LOT of time. Save the random occurrence of a host dying or being killed.
Personally, I think a hybrid of these two-seemingly opposing theories (hybrid creatures all being native to the tower and hybrid creatures largely or entirely being created) is the most apropriate.
I think GongBang, the Workshop, created the tower and 'seeded' it. As an experiment or to create an axis or who the hell knows.
- we know GB is ancient, and preceded even the OG13
- we know GB is rumored to exist outside the tower, and possibly into other towers as well
- we know GB has access to tech it should not have, such as the ability to create mini or pocket floors, mini-admin, and shinwonryu which is a function of complete mastery of shinsoo which only those from outside the tower should be able to do (hello if GB is from outside the tower). This strongly implies GB either can recreate what they discovered in the tower, or more likely IMO created all the shit we know inside the tower to begin with, admin included (and they can create more)
...
- combined with Acrinak's ancient knowledge that there were MECHANICAL beings at the beginning of tower time. Now, if that isn't obviously a creation idk what is. Mechanical beings are not something that would come from nature.
I tell you now, even though it will take a real-life decade to prove true, anyone that argues that the FHs/Zahard are only threatened by other irregulars really isn't seeing the big picture. The rules were put in place... by admin. Well, that means admin or admin tech can undo those rules. If admin were created by an ancient organization shrouded in mystery, they can be uncreated or mitigated all the same. You have to consider what it is that actually enforces the immortality contracts, and then consider what could go wrong with that. We've already seen that admin can be made. And killed. Neither of which should be possible. We've seen creations that bend and break the rules of the tower. You'd have to be really close-minded and narrowly-focused on the 'rules' of the Tower only to miss the hints and breadcrumbs SIU has been dropping. Autistic reading...
Further, the native one (and its constituents - firephant and grassbull and rockrodile) really seems to take after the admin. Look at what the admin was on FoD - a bunch of GIGANTIC FUCKING ANIMALS. Similar scale. Animals. Implying they are related IMO.
Soooo, if the Native One was a baby or little brother admin, it could threaten contracts which are only in force by the power of... admin. We even see from FoD that admin can have life-cycles.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I mean, but what you SAID was 'most' and now it should be common.
It's so "common" that out of 5 or 6 ancients we only really see one host considered 'weak'? Rak is in the middle - he's obviously weak as a regular, but he's in baby mode and clearly can't access all his power. Just his arms coming online was monsterous. Until he grows up or unseals or both he's 'weak'. NN likely could never match Rak's full potential though.
If the ancients have been around for 10's of thousands of years, and are rather limited in numbers, then they should have all already migrated to stronger hosts. Finding one in a weak host should be a relative rarity, and a temp stop to the next strong host, same as we see with the Acrinak: Slayer - weak host - Slayer.
Which is exactly what we see playing out. They are almost entirely in strong hosts. And if in a weak host, like NN, it's a temp stop between strong hosts (I can't keep mentioning the previous host was a Slayer as well, not just some nobody). It's just a weekend visit, not the normal way of living.
Now if the ancient spirits were JUST dropped in the tower, sure. They'd take what they could get. But, they've had plenty of time to find nice homes. A LOT of time. Save the random occurrence of a host dying or being killed.
But it isn't enough to say that most off the host are strong .
We have no idea of the number of ancient like Akrinac .
If they are 100 , do we assume all hundred of them are Khell and Evankhell level .
There is also the fact that the host can die , so that even if they lived for 10000 , finding a strong will likely not be easy .
Guy like Khell and Evankhell are extremely rare .
It will be more easy to find someone like NN than someone at top 100 level , which is why i said that .
Now if there are only 5 to 10 ancient being , them being all strong would be possible .
But again guy like Evankhell are genius , that could exist every 1000 years , so obviously as busted is the native species is , finding someone like Evankhell won't be that easy .
What if it's a species too old that they don't have data, or does it just look like a beastkin? Being actually a descendant of Acrinak?
We've seen hybrids and humanoids from the start, but not all of them must have their origins in the Workshop.
Xia Xia = Descendant of the Workshop beastkin
Anak and Parakewl= any humanoids from the tower.
Btw, do you think Xia xia would be able to develop a transformation? Or that the other beastkin that climbed the tower at the same time as WW and Yas are still alive?
I mean, beastkin specifically seem to come from the workshop. Other hybrids can pretty much come from whenever.
Hmm, my first guess would be that xia xia and other rabbit folk we have seen are not beastkin. We've even seen rabbit eared rankers... Going by yaratcha's past they would have been collected by the LPB. But if they are beastkin then odds are they would probably have some manner of transformation available to them. The two ranker rabbit folk we have seen died without exhibiting transformation. And the bit with xia xia needing money for her species seems weird for beastfolk. Beastkin seem somewhat bound to their instincts (though doom doesn't share wang wang's need for a master apparently), we haven't exactly seen rabbit girl just lunge at carrots or whatever the fuck a rabbit's instinct is.
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