Discussion Maschenny's Objective at the Nest

[Cinera]

Introduction
There has been a pervasive theory in certain parts of the community, that Maschenny's scheming at the Nest was to acquire whatever treasure Zahard stored in the Frozen Waterfall:

I've always been strongly opposed to the theory, and with the latest chapter, I think I've finally been vindicated.

In this thread, I'd like to explain why the "Zahard treasure" was always just a Red Herring and what Maschenny's objective at the Nest really is.


The Red Herring
At the end of S3 E49, Maschenny goes on a pretty long monologue.

She gives a description of the giant Suspendium and the Teleporter above it:

Spoiler

And then comments on its usage:

Spoiler

It was initially used by Traumerei to hide the eggs of his favourite animals but after the eggs hatched, Zahard asked him to let him store his precious things in it. Maschenny then mentions an interest in said precious things.

I think many people wrongly seized on this statement of Maschenny's when trying to determine her objective at the Nest. I think the mention of Zahard's treasure was just a statement of idle curiosity. Something that she was mildly interested in, and not any main focus of her plans or actions.

She never sent Baam into the Frozen Waterfall to bring back a Zahard treasure for her. She sent him into the Frozen Waterfall to power him up.

Essentially, from the very beginning, the Zahard's treasure was a Red Herring. It was never a main objective of Maschenny's at the Nest.


At this point, even if SIU writes it such that the Captain or Yool deliver a Zahard treasure to Maschenny later on, it would have still been a minor item in Maschenny's designs for the Nest. And it's starting to look like the Zahard treasure plotline may have been discarded entirely.



Maschenny's True Objective
Maschenny wanted to see for herself what Baam was truly capable of. Whether he'll be able to satisfy her lofty expectations. Whether he's really the one that can make her dream a reality.


Even in the very chapter with the Red Herring, this is emphasised.

Maschenny wonders to herself if Baam and his allies will even show up. She comments that she wants to see what he's truly capable of:

Spoiler

And then she expresses a desire: for him to become a vast wave of anger like the Tower has never seen before:

Spoiler

As the battle of the Nest progresses she continues to observe him, watching patiently to see how he fares.

As he performs a miracle, she chuckles to herself. She had thought him to be merely a harmless chick when he first showed up, but he was in actuality a monster:

Spoiler

And as she continues to observe him, she gets an epiphany. For some reason, his visage reminds her of Zahard:

Spoiler

Later on, during the Cat Tower game, she's beside herself with excitement. Her (nominal) allies and subordinates are risking their lives fighting against the Irregular and his allies, but she can't help but root for him to make it all the way to her. That would be the more entertaining outcome you see.

She smiles to herself as she eagerly anticipates his impending arrival:

Spoiler

She reveals to Jinsung that she doesn't want Baam's story to come to a boring end. She wants to see it continue until it becomes even more interesting:

Spoiler

And she goes on to mention, that the reason she kidnapped him and brought him to the Nest was because he was like a breakwater for Baam:

Spoiler

(Recall that she wants Baam to become a vast wave of anger like the Tower has never seen before. Jinsung is the breakwater holding Baam back).

This is unambiguous and unequivocal confirmation, that the entire reason she orchestrated the Nest was her designs for Baam.


After he defeats White and completes his map, she comments on it. And then she wonders aloud to herself, will he really be able to satisfy her lofty expectations?

Spoiler

When they finally meet, she tells him that she's been waiting for him:

Spoiler

When he questions for what purpose as she done all this, she answers him in clear terms. Her purpose is no different from all the others who have tried to use him. She wants to acquire the Trump Card called an Irregular:

Spoiler

This strongly reinforces my earlier claim that her core objective at the Nest was her designs for Baam. As for what those designs are, I think she has already told us (to become a vast wave of anger like the Tower has never seen before).


I believe that sending him into the Suspendium to acquire Leviathan was another item in her agenda for nurturing him.

Her reaction to Baam acquiring Leviathan is pretty telling. She smiles to herself, as things are progressing exactly as she had wanted:

Conclusions
The Tl;Dr is: Maschenny's objective at the Nest was always just Baam. There was never a strong desire to acquire whatever treasure Zahard stored in the Frozen Waterfall. That was just a Red Herring.






@Jubei_Kibagami, @lazybum, @Theorist05, @Fiodor Pavlovich K, @sazon.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I have to agree that she wants to manipulate and feed Baam for her own purposes. She's explicit about this to his face.

The problem is this is predicated on her lying about the treasure in the Nest. She pointedly says "I'm more interested in this" after suggesting that there is an abundance of goodies that can't even be imagined in there.

We don't really see it though.

So, she could simply have lied. It might have been harder to convince Baam to go gain another PU to save his master, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. She was purposefully vague to Baam about what's in there.

And we never see anything treasure-like with the exception of it being a tomb of Levi, a treasure in a way as well.

Certainly not trinkets of Zahard. Unless Captain spent time filling his pocket with that off screen. If so I doubt it will actually make it to Maschenny whatever it was/is. Which could still be important if it was enough to bring Catain to find it. (I still think he was there to make sure Baam achieves his objective, which seemed to always be his desire since telling him the location of the Nest through Yool).

It's possible Mas had bad info. Or lied. Or had multiple desires that overlap (it doesn't have to be either-or).

She also notes that the only way out was to blow it up. It's too soon to say if this was news to her or expected all along. I imagine Cin you believe this was another 'just as planned' Aizen moment, but I still don't know.

We'll find out soon enough. It makes you wonder what happened in the time after the explosion and Baam going to Jinsung. That seemed to happen VERY fast. I imagine Baam was told where to find Jinsung, and the regulars don't seem to be with him. I find it hard to believe he didn't first meet with Mas, who would clearly be eagerly awaiting Baam, and in turn tell him to go to Jinsung, who she specifically instructed where to hold shit down at. Maybe we'll get a near-term FB showing that debriefing with Mas and notorious shirt change.

I think it's also very likely SIU simply forgot which direction he was going, and didn't have Levi planned out in advance when he came up with the Nest idea.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2022 ---

Mas also got lucky Baam brought two regulars uniquely positioned to back up his acquisition of Levi (most importantly AA with firefish), AND an Uber-spellcaster to initiate the transfer. Pretty convenient, and hard to coordinate and assume they all made it to the finish line from the onset of goading Baam to the Nest.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2022 ---

OT: does Mas refer to Zahard as her father to make her feel less icky about sleeping with Eduan?

Or is Zahard 'father' while Eduan is 'daddy' hehe

 

[Cinera]

I have to agree that she wants to manipulate and feed Baam for her own purposes. She's explicit about this to his face.

The problem is this is predicated on her lying about the treasure in the Nest. She pointedly says "I'm more interested in this" after suggesting that there is an abundance of goodies that can't even be imagined in there.

We don't really see it though.

So, she could simply have lied. It might have been harder to convince Baam to go gain another PU to save his master, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. She was purposefully vague to Baam about what's in there.

And we never see anything treasure-like with the exception of it being a tomb of Levi, a treasure in a way as well.

Certainly not trinkets of Zahard. Unless Captain spent time filling his pocket with that off screen. If so I doubt it will actually make it to Maschenny whatever it was/is. Which could still be important if it was enough to bring Catain to find it. (I still think he was there to make sure Baam achieves his objective, which seemed to always be his desire since telling him the location of the Nest through Yool).

It's possible Mas had bad info. Or lied. Or had multiple desires that overlap (it doesn't have to be either-or).

Well, the issue is that entire spiel was a monologue. Maschenny wasn't talking to anyone but herself in that panel. Maschenny lying to others is an easy argument to make. Maschenny lying to herself in her monologues is much harder.

I think what happened is some combination of:

• The Zahard treasures were a Red Herring.
• SIU discarded the plot point of Zahard treasures in the Frozen Waterfall.
• Yool stole said treasures off panel and he will hand it to Maschenny later.
• The Captain stole said treasures off panel and he will hand it to Maschenny later.

The problem with "Maschenny had bad info" is that Maschenny's reaction to Baam acquiring Leviathan is not surprise, disappointment, anger, or any other adverse emotion.

As she sees Baam exist the Suspendium, she smiles to herself and delights that he was able to take what was inside out:

This is an "all according to keikaku" smile. It's the same smile that she made when:

Daddy (Zahard) killed her as she wished:

Jinsung realised her purpose on the 91st Floor:

She arrived at the Nest with Jinsung:

Jinsung realised some of her machinations at the Nest:

She sent Lyborick and Yasratcha out:

She had her female minion release the Hybrider and Baam was getting closer to her:

She had Jinsung and Baam dancing in her palms:

Maschenny smiling like that heavily suggests that what just happened is exactly what she wanted to happen. This means that her true objective in sending Baam inside the Frozen Waterfall was not to take whatever is inside out and bring it to her, but to acquire the Leviathan for himself.


Maschenny wanting Baam to take Leviathan is why I disbelieve the "Maschenny had bad info" explanation.

I imagine Cin you believe this was another 'just as planned' Aizen moment, but I still don't know.

SIU made her react that way. As I showed above, that kind of smile from Maschenny is the "just as planned".

I think it's also very likely SIU simply forgot which direction he was going, and didn't have Levi planned out in advance when he came up with the Nest idea.

I'm partial to this explanation (unless Yool/the Captain made it out of the Frozen Waterfall with some treasure).

 

[kkck]

This is a perfectly plausible scenario. Though the specifics of her motives are still somewhat ambiguous. To me its hard sell that bam is the objective itself or even that mascheny is on his side. Even if this is the correct scenario it makes more sense in general that bam would be the means to an end.

it's also still unclear whether mascheny even knew what was inside the nest. It's not impossible she would know but it mostly sounds like the ones that would/could know this are great warriors and very high ranking LPB. Outside of that... it'd probably have to be someone who is quite high up the pecking order AND is older than the nest. Interestingly, the "captain" showing up alongside the snake LPB possibly hints that mascheny could be cooperating with him. Considering the captain has some relation to zahard and potentially even the princes of the tower and also happens to have some manner of prescience... Or way to anticipate bam from eons ago... He probably meets the criteria I mentioned. Or doesn't but still does whatever because reasons.

 

[Cinera]

Mas also got lucky Baam brought two regulars uniquely positioned to back up his acquisition of Levi (most importantly AA with firefish), AND an Uber-spellcaster to initiate the transfer. Pretty convenient, and hard to coordinate and assume they all made it to the finish line from the onset of goading Baam to the Nest.

That's Fate at work.

See also this line from Yuri:

Spoiler

• Yuri making the bet with Maschenny was Fate.
• Vicente entering the Suspendium with Baam was Fate.
• AA and Rak being able to assist with Leviathan was Fate.

Fate is the reason Maschenny's plans have always worked out even when they were very risky:

• Allowing Kallavan to make it to the Last Station endangered Baam
  • Yet, Maschenny was fully confident that the Irregular boy would escape.
  • She just focused on capturing Jinsung.
• Allowing White to make it to Baam's field endangered him.
  • She could have sent Asensio to Baam's field to engage White but did not.
  • Instead, she had Asensio send AA first.
  • Perhaps AA using the Firefish to help Baam absorb White was also Fate?
  • And Vicente taking over from White and helping Baam release Leviathan may have also been Fate?
• Asensio left one guard alive. That guard could have snitched on Asensio and/or Maschenny thus jeopardising the entire operation.
  • Instead, the guard did not mention their names.
  • The guard's actions caused Orari and Yorari to get trapped in the Suspendium.
    • Thus resulting in their (at least Yorari's) deaths.
  • And allowed the Captain to follow Baam into the Suspendium.

When you look at it critically, Maschenny has planned very little. Things just manifest in a manner that is beneficial to her plans and desires. She takes on a lot of unreasonable and unnecessary risks in her gambits, and they all work out anyway.

Maschenny or someone she's working with is able to steer Fate to work in their favour.


My headcanon is that Zahard taught Maschenny how to play around with Fate. He said that he "began to see all causes and effects from the same height as god" and "found out how to play around with Fate":

Spoiler

What if it's a skill that's teachable?


Another alternative is that perhaps the Captain that spoke with Cha and Dowon is able to manipulate Fate, and he's assisting Maschenny. It could also be Eduan.

My issue with those explanations is that the first (and only unambiguous instance of Fate at work with Maschenny) was the bet with Yuri, and the Captain, Eduan and the other Faters we know have no connection to it.

One could mention Repellista, but Repellista has had zero relevance, influence or presence in the story after the Floor of Death.


Another reason I'm partial to the hypothesis that Maschenny is a Fater herself is that she has eschewed the services of a guide (despite all Ranker Princesses being entitled to one). Perhaps Maschenny chose to forego a guide, because she has access to foresight that's much better than what a guide could possibly offer.



I'll make a dedicated thread on Fate and Maschenny some other day.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Yes, a lot of her plans have revolved around Baam so far, especially at the Nest.

 

[Cinera]

OT: does Mas refer to Zahard as her father to make her feel less icky about sleeping with Eduan?

Do you think she'd turn Zahard down if he woke up one day and decided to become heterosexual (as opposed to Arlenesexual)?

She's got severe daddy issues:

Discussion - Maschenny's Father Complex

Alternate title: Maschenny's Daddy Issues Introduction As is the case for some of the direct descendants of the 10 Families, Maschenny Zahard seems to have a fixation on her Father. Curiously though, the Father she's fixated on is not Khun Eduan but rather King Zahard. Her fixation on Zahard...

mangahelpers.com

Maschenny probably wants big Z to spank her. Data Maschenny certainly seemed to enjoy it when he was ragdolling her:

Spoiler

"Not yet" she says — you can't pull out now — "I'm still not done enjoying myself".

Daddy tried to let her off gently with a light spanking, but baby girl was having none of it. She insisted that he continued pounding her until her death.

Spoiler

"It's for the sake of my own pleasure" she says. Never have I seen someone so down horrendous.

Even Daddy could not comprehend the magnitude of her thirst, she went so hard that not even her vastly superhuman body ("tens of thousands stronger than normal people" could take it anymore). So great was her thirst:.

Spoiler

And when the embrace of death came, she greeted it with delight:

For she had finally realised her childhood dream:

Spoiler

Little miss knew what she wanted and would have stopped at nothing to get it.

Or is Zahard 'father' while Eduan is 'daddy' hehe

You might actually be on to something. In the only panel where Adult Maschenny refers to Eduan, she calls him "Dad":

Spoiler

 

[Ignorant]

She told JH about two keys and that baam is one to the other.. if i recall right then the purpose was to free the beast to used against traumerei to the downfall of the LPB family the greatest zahard family allies we can say they are most important asset of the army..

Leviathan has two abilities
1- the power to not be dominated as animal
2- the skin is like an impenetrable armor

Plus a Top 100 raw power.

Some of us assume that traumerei is a spear bearer in order that he’s really a hunter not a breeder it make senses! If that’s the case then there’s no way he can do shit to baam with his spear he probably tried when he went to the nest to dominate the beast and couldn’t do shit.. plus the raw power of the beast is probably way superior to the animals Traumerei control.. about how they escape the suspendium w/o being toasted by that powerful beam i have two theories

•the way baam stand is the same way he did in the data world when he beat the big snake with space control.
•aria ability to change the reality for a moment

If baam managed to put all this PU together he may be able to do some to traumerei.

so for me is a cycle of things here
She wanted to provide baam with the beast in order to cut that great assets of the army that is the LPB family so the army can go all out to the war and.. more blood will be spilled and everybody is going to start to move and pick sides.
For me is enough to hurt traumerei and escape for that to happened

 

[Cinera]

To me its hard sell that bam is the objective itself

Maschenny says this outright in no unambiguous terms:

Spoiler

or even that mascheny is on his side.

She is not. She again says as such.

Baam is not someone that's strong enough or great enough to join hands with others:

Spoiler

He's someone who can only be taken advantage of by others. Rather than being on his side, she wants to take advantage of him:

Spoiler

Even if this is the correct scenario it makes more sense in general that bam would be the means to an end.

In general, he's a means to an end. At the Nest in particular though? He is the end.

it's also still unclear whether mascheny even knew what was inside the nest. It's not impossible she would know but it mostly sounds like the ones that would/could know this are great warriors and very high ranking LPB. Outside of that... it'd probably have to be someone who is quite high up the pecking order AND is older than the nest.

Whatever the case, her reaction to seeing Baam leave the Frozen Waterfall was delight as everything went exactly according to her plans:

Whether she knew of Leviathan or not, she wanted Baam to acquire whatever it was that was in the Frozen Waterfall.

Interestingly, the "captain" showing up alongside the snake LPB possibly hints that mascheny could be cooperating with him.

Indeed. Me thinks that Asensio deliberately left that one guard alive to create an opportunity for the Captain to sneak inside the Frozen Waterfall.

 

[Ignorant]

She don’t have to know what exactly was in the suspendium but she may know that was something that could face traumerei that’s the important thing here.

 

[King Dryst]

Baam is not someone that's strong enough or great enough to join hands with others:

It's too bad that Traumerei is around, because I would have loved for Baam to have the luxury to beat her ass bloody for that comment. And I have zero doubt of his ability to do it as of right now in the manhwa.

As it is, he won't have time to clap some arrogant NPC.

 

[Ignorant]

It's too bad that Traumerei is around, because I would have loved for Baam to have the luxury to beat her ass bloody for that comment. And I have zero doubt of his ability to do it as of right now in the manhwa.

As it is, he won't have time to clap some arrogant NPC.

You finally loving this baam lol

 

[King Dryst]

You finally loving this baam lol

Time will tell. I've always loved the potential of what he could/should be. Usually much less of a fan of SIU's treatment of the same.

 

[Cinera]

It's too bad that Traumerei is around, because I would have loved for Baam to have the luxury to beat her ass bloody for that comment. And I have zero doubt of his ability to do it as of right now in the manhwa.

That's not how SIU writes Maschenny.

The only person that has hurt her was Zahard, and even when Zahard beat her, it was written as Zahard granting her wish to die in combat against him (and he first acknowledged her as a "true opponent" by using Lecalicus). Maschenny's only "loss" was presented as a personal victory (see her smiling at her death):

If Zahard is not allowed to unquestionably humiliate her, then there's definitely no way that C Rank Baam is going to do it.


This is not to say that current Baam is not stronger than Maschenny, but simply that SIU is just not going to ever write Maschenny getting beaten up like that. Whether Baam is stronger than her or not, that aspect of how he writes her would not change.

(Consider that the last character to talk down to Maschenny ended up eating his words, and commenting that she was far bigger than he could have ever imagined).


Even if he defeats Traumerei at the Nest, Baam will probably continue to do what she wishes of him. Not because she's stronger than him, but because she has his number (so to speak). There are many levers with which she can move Baam:

• AA
  • His desire to succeed Eduan as the head of the Khun Family
  • His relationship with Maria
  • His relationship with Ran
  • His connections, position and support within the Khun Family
• Yihwa
  • She's a hostage of the Captain's.
    • Said Captain may well be working with Maschenny.
• Jinsung
  • If he dies, she can use Baam's desire for revenge
  • If he lives, she can use him to help steer Baam where she wants for the future.
    • Jinsung seems to have accepted his fate as Maschenny's pawn, and he's now willing to do what she asks of him.
    • She also told him that they have the same goal, so it'll probably be easier to convince him to do her bidding should he still harbour some reservations.
• Yuri
  • She will have information on her current predicament and situation.
  • She may be able to create an opportunity for Baam to render assistance.
  • She may have already acquired the Green April and could barter it.
• Endorsi and Anaak
  • Maschenny can interfere with them through the Lo Po Bia Princesses.
  • The Twins can call of Ren from hunting down Anaak or even offer his life as a gesture of peace.

 

[King Dryst]

If Zahard is not allowed to unquestionably humiliate her, then there's definitely no way that C Rank Baam is going to do it.

Yes, I'm well aware that SIU has no respect for his main character. It's deplorable how much disrespect Baam takes from creatures that are inherently beneath him.

 

[Ignorant]

Yes, I'm well aware that SIU has no respect for his main character. It's deplorable how much disrespect Baam takes from creatures that are inherently beneath him.

It was stated that the story is not just about baam that’s why he’s giving others characters relevancy even at the expense of the main character.. i thought the blog post was a bad idea.. but now i got what was his goal with this.. is to got us fighting in websites like this one.. and in the comment section of naver and webtoon
He make kallavan beat JH and then say in the blog post that kallavan has nothing on JH greatness art martial bla bla bla and that if JH fight lyborick he could destroy him in a instant lol

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2022 ---

What i recommend you guys is to forget about the blog post, wiki and characters profiles and follow the story real time like the ignorant people of webtoon they know nothing about all of this. They always happy lol

 

[Cinera]

Yes, I'm well aware that SIU has no respect for his main character. It's deplorable how much disrespect Baam takes from creatures that are inherently beneath him.

Rather than SIU disrespecting Baam, it's more like SIU fetishising the Princesses.

See how Yuri has been treated for example. Even against opponents that greatly outclass her (see Kallavan) she wasn't allowed to take any damage.

Only Hell Joe has so much as scratched her, and that's literally all he did. Even while Yuri had no shinsu to use. Garam too while outclassed by Hell Joe never took any damage from him.

Endorsi has also benefited from similar protection. SIU places his Princesses on a pedestal, and he's loathe to knock them off it, except at the hands of another Princess.

It's deplorable how much disrespect Baam takes from creatures that are inherently beneath him.

In fairness, I think Mascheny was only so overly condescending because she wanted to make Baam feel as if he had no other choice but to do exactly what she wanted. It was a tactic to manipulate him, and probably not her true opinion.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Bump

 

[Cinera]

Bump

Here's an out there theory. The Warp Drive on Maschenny's ship doesn't take Baam and Co to where they wanted to go, but instead back to her home base:

• Her palace (one of Zahard's Floating Castles)
• Her Flagship/Mothership
• The Khun Family's Mothership

She literally leaves the Nest with the Irregular secured. Exactly as she told them she planned to:

Spoiler