Urek is an irregular that is *devoid of contracts* - hence, he could kill Zahard if he had it in him. The king contract wouldn't prevent it. The same goes for any other NEW irregular that entered, but this is another conversation entirely.
We were talking about the FHs - that is the context, not Urek. Because, while being irregulars, they are different from NEW irregulars entering the tower. We also know that Zahard could beat them all one-on-one.
I guess I don't see what your contention is. It is NOT a meaningless title... it caused a war that the FHs personally were involved in (there was disagreement before they finally agreed to oppose V/Arlen). It is bestowed by the god-like admin, and covers the entire tower and everyone in it (this included the FHs at the time of the coronation). Not new irregulars since that moment, which are basically diplomats as outsiders free from sovereign rule. This only includes Urek, Enryu, Phanta, Baam, and maybe Rachel. That's it. Unless there are hidden irregulars since Genesis those are the ONLY ones that can oppose Zahard.
The fact that Gustang kept his head down, mouth shut shows subordination. What do you think it even means to be subordinate?
If by title, you already agree, Gustang isn't the king while Zahard is.
But you seem to be focused on behavior.
OK, well, Gustang has modified his behavior to calculate that Zahard is more powerful. He has pointedly not betrayed him, though he'd like to do so for some unknown amount of time (possibly always). Modifier behavior is... well, behavior.
By any metric he has subordinated himself to Zahard for the longest of periods. Only now is he starting to bark - because Baam is here more likely than not.
Again:
- FH's can NOT decide to move up the tower - they have to obey Zahard's dictate (subordinates)
- FH's can NOT defy Zahard, and they haven't, or else they would face his wrath (subordinates) as we see is playing out with Gustang's actions
- FH's can't do certain things that empire has set up. Whose empire? Zahard's empire. This may mean marrying or mating with a princess. Or any number of other things.
If they can't do things that means they are lower than Zahard. By title, by behavior, by restrictions, and by invulnerability (probably).
They can be supportive of Zahard. Friendly even. They share history and the nature of being an irregular makes them roughly equivalent in that way. They could do damage to Zahard's empire by rebelling (though not Zahard himself), and it is better to catch flies with honey, but this does not mean that they could depose him at all. They have no ability to overcome the contract given by the admin that solidifies his kingship. They are only immortal by the same/similar admin, so they can't go against what an admin decrees. Thus, by ANY measure, they are lesser beings.
Yes, it has been agreed on many times that he's not JUST their king and they have a dynamic, influential and complicated relationships (Z and the FHs), but that does not negate he is their king. It merely adds more complication to the mix.
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If you read back, no one is saying otherwise. No one has said they are strictly his subordinates (likewise, they are somewhat subordinated yet). I've said 'yes and no' from the first post.
I mean you are beside the point , you are speaking about my opinion about the title and you are saying Urek can kill zahard which is like you said another debate .
It is simple i already proved that this contract is already weird when it give Zahard the title of " king of the tower " , yet you can't say that he is urek , Baam or fug king .
Yes zahard can beat all off them 1 vs 1 , but the problem is that they are 10 and whether zahard is king or not , if he lose the FH support he won't stay for long , even if he has the title god off the tower .
You seem focused on the position and hierarchie , and i already said long before that i am speaking about the " relation " , more clearly the dynamic between them .
This is why i said that it seems that are friend and said to be equal .
You actually don't know if any irregular ever defied zahard or not .
Second it doesn't seem to be a question off strength that Gustang didn't defy Zahard because Gustang nee someone who can actually kill zahard which until now we are not sure Gustang can and there are also other irregular .
If it was only a question off strength then Urek could have been enough , but as far as we know Zahard never targeted Urek despite his potential and his ability to kill him .
Zahard also had to refrain from killing Baam , if anything Gustang restraining himself and zahard refraining himself show that he can't submit the entirety off FH by himself and that there is a delicate balance off power between FH and zahard .
How are they lesser being lol ? You are making stuff up here , zahard as king contract but we don't actually what advantage it gave him .
No they can't do just damage to zahard empire lol , if the 12 off them rebel zahard is as good as gone , they will just have to capture .
" overcome " the contract ? So i ask what the contract entails ?
Do you have any evidence that the same immortals that gave the FH they immortality is same that made zahard king ?
Again i will clarify what is clear , most off them accept that he is king but there is no mention whether they obey him or not , some do and other don't .
Zahard in this chapter is showed that he can't override they opinion even when he is facing is mortal ennemie .
Everyone thought it could only be Gustang (or Urek/Luslec), but this chapter opens up a surprise FH putting their foot down. Or likewise wanting Baam for themselves.
I just realized there's the Super Turtle and the Turtle Hunter, my whole life has been a lie.
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Blossom showing up, cleaning the floor with Rei and having Baam go get Enne out of the maze while the focus goes to Yuri and Androssi vs Maschenny and the twins feat other princesses.
It seems me and @Jubei_Kibagami agree that Zahard is the king and that they relationship is complex .
Where we disagree is that i think that this relationship is a lot more complex than he think , while you think that zahard can be king with or without FH support because off admin contract which i disagree because we simply don't know the content off this contract and because i think that if Zahard isn't carefully and lose all FH support he won't stay king for long .
It's an impressive technique and all, but I don't think Rei would need it to impose himself.
To me this kind of confirms that what makes FH really special is the control over Shinwonryuu, the rest of the aspects are because they are so talented compared to towerborn.
I am surprised most Family Heads aren't doing anything here(probably apart from Gustang and Blossom).If Trauemerei manages to get Baam then the entire power balance will get broken,Lo Po Bia Family will get two Irregulars.They are going to surpass every Families.Are they even okay with this?
1) Bam will definitely not breed with LPG twins
2) There's gonna be a fight
3) Gustang will definitely intervene (better still if Urek teams up with Gustang).
4) Leviathan is ready and willing to fight
I mean you are beside the point , you are speaking about my opinion about the title and you are saying Urek can kill zahard which is like you said another debate .
It is simple i already proved that this contract is already weird when it give Zahard the title of " king of the tower " , yet you can't say that he is urek , Baam or fug king .
Yes zahard can beat all off them 1 vs 1 , but the problem is that they are 10 and whether zahard is king or not , if he lose the FH support he won't stay for long , even if he has the title god off the tower .
You seem focused on the position and hierarchie , and i already said long before that i am speaking about the " relation " , more clearly the dynamic between them .
Actually, I do, because it has been repeatedly stated that there has been peace in the tower for many thousands of years, and that all the FH's have been in harmony since Genesis. And we don't have to guess what defiance looks like, because we see Zahard's answer to Gustang.
Second it doesn't seem to be a question off strength that Gustang didn't defy Zahard because Gustang nee someone who can actually kill zahard which until now we are not sure Gustang can and there are also other irregular .
You're contradicting yourself. If Gustang couldn't kill Zahard, that means he's not not strong enough to do so. Whether in direct power-level, or the ability to overcome the contract, he is lacking. Soooo, this means he stayed quiet. Until Baam. Go figure.
If it was only a question off strength then Urek could have been enough , but as far as we know Zahard never targeted Urek despite his potential and his ability to kill him .
We still don't know if Urek even can, though it has been implied a possibility. Either way, Zahard is best to leave Urek to his own devices, which is exactly what we have seen.
Wot? Zahard literally tried to choke the life out of him AGAIN on data floor, and has put out 3 kill orders per Rei in this very chapter. You're, as usual, just arguing to argue at this point.
if anything Gustang restraining himself and zahard refraining himself show that he can't submit the entirety off FH by himself and that there is a delicate balance off power between FH and zahard .
What motive would Zahard have to move against a FH? None. Alternatively, what motive would a FH have? To depose the king. You're saying that no one has moved on the other is a false equivalency.
We know he's a king, per the admin of the tower, and they aren't. That makes them lesser, Mr. Argumentative. We also know there's many a thing they cannot do.
That he is the KING of the tower (and also invulnerable). As such, he calls the shots like how empire operates, climbing up the tower further (or not), what happens to the floor keys, what can or can't be done with a princess, and so on.
Yes, I'd like to introduce you to the story of ToG. I even posted the very chapter that went on about it a few posts back. Zahard quite literally has a king contract from an admin - per the story. Admin were the same to grant the irregulars immortality. Any other silly questions? Or are you asking if it was the same one on 100F - because I never said that.
Again i will clarify what is clear , most off them accept that he is king but there is no mention whether they obey him or not , some do and other don't .
Zahard in this chapter is showed that he can't override they opinion even when he is facing is mortal ennemie .
This chapter doesn't "prove" that Zahard couldn't do anything. It merely shows he's seeking a political outcome over outright might at this point. He might very well be able to force the subject, but that could upset the balance of the empire. While he wouldn't be personally at risk, his painfully-crafted empire would be. As I said earlier, you get more flies with honey.
This chapter also doesn't "prove" that the FH's represent a mortal threat to Zahard.
FH's strengths come from the admin, not the other way around. Not even Zahard can defy an admin. Hence, we have ZERO evidence a FH can go against the king contract that comes directly from an admin, and every reason to believe they can't do anything about it at all. Which is what the story talks about how a new irregular that's not bound by contracts is needed to kill Zahard.
Zahard had no clue what Gustang was up to behind his back, until he got triggered to data-floor, noticed the treasure-seeking stingray, immediately knew it was Gustang, and next we know there's *immediately* an order to kill ALL the Po Bidau.
It's that clear how much control Zahard can wield - if he chooses or if you go against him.
I am surprised most Family Heads aren't doing anything here(probably apart from Gustang and Blossom).If Trauemerei manages to get Baam then the entire power balance will get broken,Lo Po Bia Family will get two Irregulars.They are going to surpass every Families.Are they even okay with this?
I think they kind of know that this would be a failure. They probably know Trau will fail his mission considering how he is. I’m not sure how much Trau knows about Bam but the other Family Heads know about the prophesy about Bam. Maybe some Family Heads will act after seeing what will happen in the nest. Remember how Gustang came to last station place after everything was finished and when they’re about to leave? Who knows what will happen here? There’s also Luslac. He may not be able to defeat Trau but he could at least fight enough for Bam to escape.
