Discussion Who has the higher potential between Yuri and Halan

[hblock]

Both are from the new generation, portrayed as the most talented in their respective families. If we look at their current strength, it's pretty obvious that Halan is far stronger than Yuri. Although not as powerful as a corps commander, his presence and vibe were strong enough to make Hansung (mistakenly) believe that he might be arround Evankhell's level (alongside Pudidy and Perseus). Similarly, Jinsung said that both him and Pudidy are BH level and his feats aren't lacking considering his long ranged spearbearing managed to put some damage to Jinsung.

Yuri in the other hands was shown struggling against Karaka and Cheonhee, she ended up defeating them but not even remotely as easy as it should've been done if she was BH tier. Against Karaka, the context suggests that she was forced to ignite Kranos (one of the strongest ignition weapons) and unleash Rose Shower (putting the nearby regular's life in danger) to definitely put him down despite Evan being in her side. Similarly, she couldn't put him down in several future strifes (arround the FoD and HF arcs) even with Evan's help. Ultiamtely, the only reason she subdued him easily in the last station is because she has an OP item she didn't have access to in their earlier fights (the bubble like melting item). In contrast, Karaka with a good weapon like the purple dementor was noted to be strong enough to threaten Yuri and was portrayed as her rival in a blogpost.

Against Cheonhee, she was shown actively dodging and "urghing" agaisnt the shining fan's attacks, which is unfit of the Ha style that consists in taking the hits and charging headon with direct attacks (if she was a top 300 Ha DD, she should've loled at them). The princess was also forced to use Rose Shower in order to bypass Vortex of Doom and ultimately, even after few direct punches in melee, Cheonhee wasn't subdued yet (despite taking relevant damage) when it should've been done effortlessly in one shot (if she was BH level).

BHs in other hands are portrayed to be among the top 300 in the ranking. Individuals who according to Evankhell stand on a whole another level compared to the strongest top 400 and can solo a whole army corps on their own if we exclude the corps commander. Halan being a BH level fighters suggests that he is far stronger than Yuri currently.

That being said there're many other factors to consider. The first that comes to mind is age, although both are among the rising starts (young generation), ancient HRs lived since and even before the establishment of the empire, which is tens of thousans years old. Therefore, it's not far fetched to assume that folks who lived both several hundreds years and several thousands years (leaning more toward 2/3K than 10K) belong to the young generation.
Considering Yuri is 500+ y/o currently, if Halan ends up being 1000+ or 1500+ y/o, then it can be assumed that the age gap played a major role in their current difference in terms of power.

The difference between families isn't to be underestimated either. According to Hon, only the Khun and Ha family compare to the Arie, which means that if a war unleashes between the Ha and LPB armies, the Ha family would end up winning quite easily. Not to mention that the Hon, Edahn and Yurin are set appart for their melee combat skills among the 10 FHs.
So, in terms of lineage, Ha >(>) LPB, not to mention that Yuri is a princess, who has Z blood on top of her OP genes.

 

[Demonspeed]

First, do you believe that Alan has more talent than Lilial and Shilial?

I have no reason to believe this guy has more potential than Yuri as of now. He has been used as a hype tool but he seems stronger as of now and unless he turns out to be Elaine's lover I doubt he'll reappear much one the LPB arc is done. Yuri herself hasn't shown much all things considering her opponents have always been way below her in 1vs1.

Yuri's rivals in the story are Karaka on the FUG side and mainly Maschenny among Princesses so I think she'll reach Maschenny's level at the very least and I doubt this guy is going to surpass Maschenny so my answer is no.

 

[hblock]

First, do you believe that Alan has more talent than Lilial and Shilial?

Quite frankly, I don't know. When I said the most talented LPB, I was refering to his own statement without further reasonning.
I don't factor BS PUs either (like WS experiment, becoming an ancient Jinchuriki, etc).
If we consider lineage alone and assume that heredity is an exact science, then the twins are arguably more powerful since they carry Z blood (though we don't know how deep they're placed in the LPB family tree). But that's not the case and when we're talking about the most talented in a GF, we're refering to an extreme outlier who were the luckiest ever in terms of genetical lottery in the whole family.

Furtheremore, there're tiers among Z princesses. Kaiser for instance doesn't come close to Asencio in terms of potential based on their respective showings as D-class regs. Similarly, snake charmer said that he'd have selected Hansung as a princess if he was a girl, yet we know that he didn't come close to Asencio or Icardi in the data floor.
If we buff someone like Hansung with Z blood, would it be enough to make him compete or surpass someone like Asencio or Icardi ? I can't just arbitarily answer this question. Now, imagine if someone arround Asencio's level were to be buffed by Z blood...
There're a lot of gaps and tiers among Z princesses.

While the twins are clearly stronger than an average DDs even if we remove Z blood, I can't say on a whim that they'd have more potential than the luckiest ever in terms of genetical lottery even if we add Z blood to them.

Yuri herself hasn't shown much all things considering her opponents have always been way below her in 1vs1.

We know many of her limitations already and I doubt she comes close to a top 300 HR (excluding the weak outliers) currently.

Yuri's rivals in the story are Karaka on the FUG side and mainly Maschenny among Princesses so I think she'll reach Maschenny's level at the very least and I doubt this guy is going to surpass Maschenny so my answer is no.

Surpassing peak Maschenny ? Maybe not, the current Mas' ? I'd say it's highly likely that peak Halan is stronger. In terms of potential, he's above the 2 regents who would treat CCs like walking jokes.
Unless you think the current Mas' can treat CCs like walking jokes, then peak Halan is probably superior.

 

[zoradante1]

Furtheremore, there're tiers among Z princesses. Kaiser for instance doesn't come close to Asencio in terms of potential based on their respective showings as D-class regs. Similarly, snake charmer said that he'd have selected Hansung as a princess if he was a girl, yet we know that he didn't come close to Asencio or Icardi in the data floor.

LOL!!!!,kaiser wasn't even properly educated or trained until she met with jinsung. Just because data asensio is stronger than kaiser doesn't mean asensio is more talented than her. Asensio was one of the three people eduan cared about LOL!!! so i have no doubt that he received much more better training opportunities compared to kaiser who was daughter of completely two ordinary member of the worst branch family(kaiser herself said it). Also kaiser didn't get to receive the opportunity of clicker which would reveal her shinsu shape and quality which would give her massive boost LMAO!!!

Also yuri should be much more talented than the likes of Halan even without Z blood which would make her even more talented.

One is considered as most talented of top 3 family which have twins who are born from two irregular themselves which would make them much much much more talented than everybody in lo po bia family except traum, so if yuri was more talented than even twins then that means she could literally demolish Halan in terms of talent. I don't think halan comes even close to twin's talented much less yuri's.

Also i believe halan might be more talented than most of the zahard princess since he was mentioned as the most talented member of LPB family, he might be slightly above lilial and shilial in terms of talent if lilal and shilial had a talent close to Elaine back when they didn't receive zahard's blood.

So for me

Yuri (Z blood) > Yuri(without Z blood) >>> Halan >= Elaine >= Maschenny > Lilial and shilial

 

[Demonspeed]

I was strictly talking about potential. Princesses do get boosts but you don't get picked as a Princess unless you are talented to begin with. And even Traumerei called them excellent. What was clear in the NHS arc was also that the Twins were much stronger than Elaine.

Is Maschenny at her peak right now? I don't know. Is she CC level, definitely. IIRC Perseus said that although Alan has potential he isn't at their level yet. He can't be stronger than Pudidy and he wasn't doing better(or much better) than him although Pudidy is missing his strongest Shinheuh.

We can't really know Yuri's limitations since her room for growth is large but yeah there is no way she is Top 300 ATM.

 

[hblock]

I was strictly talking about potential. Princesses do get boosts but you don't get picked as a Princess unless you are talented to begin with. And even Traumerei called them excellent.

I was refering to potential as well
As I said in my previous post, you aren't either average either talented, there're multiple tiers among geniuses.
The Hatchlings who represent the elite/creme among the new generation are still only comparable to advanced Rankers/low level HRs as they're currently. The current Halan being more akin to a top 300 implies that he's dozens of times stronger. In fact, he might arguably solo all the Hatchlings (the elite among DDs) combined on his own. While the Hatchlings are geniuses, he's like a super genius.
So, I'm not sure whether Z blood would've made the twins as talented or more than Halan.

What was clear in the NHS arc was also that the Twins were much stronger than Elaine.

Which is irrelevant, that's not why I brought Elaine in my previous post.
Based on her showings, she doesn't come close to Halan in terms of potential, not even remotely.

Is Maschenny at her peak right now? I don't know. Is she CC level, definitely. IIRC Perseus said that although Alan has potential he isn't at their level yet. He can't be stronger than Pudidy and he wasn't doing better(or much better) than him although Pudidy is missing his strongest Shinheuh.

Never said otherwise, reread this part of my post.

We can't really know Yuri's limitations since her room for growth is large but yeah there is no way she is Top 300 ATM.

She is a beast talentwise, that's for sure but she doesn't come close to Baam. We need to wait at least dozens or hundreds years (which is a little amount of time in the tower) to see any considerable change in her power giving her age.
Well, excluding BS PUs ofc.

 

[zoradante1]

Which is irrelevant, that's not why I brought Elaine in my previous post.
Based on her showings, she doesn't come close to Halan in terms of potential, not even remotely.

Can you show a evidence or proof for this sentence?

Kaiser wasn't mentioned any different than halan. Both were strongest and most talented of their generation on LPB family,the only difference between them would be their standing which might make their strength vary depending on their teacher,master. Also from the looks of it halan seems like he did receive much better training opportunities than elaine since elaine was daughter of two ordinary members of worst branch. And if halan is the person elaine was talking about, it makes even more sense that Elaine is at the very least as talented as him if not even more.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2022, Original Post Date: May 26, 2022 ---

She is a beast talentwise, that's for sure but she doesn't come close to Baam. We need to wait at least dozens or hundreds years (which is a little amount of time in the tower) to see any considerable change in her power giving her age.
Well, excluding BS PUs ofc.

Unfortunately, SIU intends on giving BS PU to her considering SIU said she is going to be stronger than jinsung...

 

[kkck]

IIRC the implication was that halan had never met anyone more talented than himself. So the question is who exactly has he met before. Obviously pudily and perseus... but has he met the regents of the LPB? Other princesses? How good is his estimate of his own talent and that of others?

It's a pretty big stretch that yuri struggled against karaka or chenhee. Both are people who are incapable of inflicting harm on yuri. If they were to take their sweet time to prepare their mightiest blow against a sleeping yuri they might hurt themselves. The fights against either pretty much ended when yuri decided to flex a bit.

 

[hblock]

Kaiser wasn't mentioned any different than halan. Both were strongest and most talented of their generation on LPB family

Kaiser was only mentionned to be more talented than descendants from the direct lines, the phrasing was no different than folks described as "stronger than a regular", "stronger than Ranker", "stronger than a HR" (and the list goes on), which means she was only noted to be significatly above an average DD.
Halan in the other hands was portrayed as the most talented in the whole family (not just his generation as you say), during the whole tens of thousands of the LPB history, he's the one born with the highest potential excluding Traumerei.
Kaiser's feats were also terrifying lacking, how could she not fodderize a low level princess despite training, receiving OP items and growing for over a thousand yeas (Asencio for example would've fodderized Endorsi based on his HF showings). That's why it's very unlikely for her to be arround Halan's level.

And if halan is the person elaine was talking about, it makes even more sense that Elaine is at the very least as talented as him if not even more.

wtf

Unfortunately, SIU intends on giving BS PU to her considering SIU said she is going to be stronger than jinsung...

Rather what SIU said is she has more potential than Jinsung.
I dunno what the plans for Yuri but if she's suddenly portrayed to be as strong or stronger than Jinsung in the range of just several years, then better come up with a good explenation and execution for it not to seem like an awkward asspull.

 

[kkck]

Kaiser spent an insanely long time at the name hunt station. When regulars climb they get contracts every floor which grant them more access to shinsoo. IIRC even the LPB twins had climbed higher than the name hunt station. It's not that bad a bet that the reason kaiser didn't grow stronger is simply her lack of climbing the tower, she pretty much got as far as her position allowed. And even then her skills are probably leagues ahead of most regulars.

And the notion that androsi is somehow a low level princess is categorically, factually and absurdly wrong.

 

[hblock]

And the notion that androsi is somehow a low level princess is categorically, factually and absurdly wrong.

How do you explain that she didn't fodderize all her regular ennemies so far ?

 

[kkck]

How do you explain that she didn't fodderize all her regular ennemies so far ?

Except she mostly has? So far only the most dangerous regulars around have presented even a semblance of a threat. She was probably stronger than bam up until the name hunt station...

 

[hblock]

Except she mostly has? So far only the most dangerous regulars around have presented even a semblance of a threat. She was probably stronger than bam up until the name hunt station...

She didn't fodderize Varavarg whe she should've, she couldn't fodderize Elaine, she was running away against the giant solider (with Thron Baam and Hansung fighting alongside her) in the hidden floor, similarly, she couldn't fodderize the demon of truth and evil and was struggling against a mere champion villain who specializes in defense.
If she was on the strong side of the princesses, she should've handled all of these situations neg diff.

 

[kkck]

She didn't fodderize Varavarg whe she should've, she couldn't fodderize Elaine, she was running away against the giant solider (with Thron Baam and Hansung fighting alongside her) in the hidden floor, similarly, she couldn't fodderize the demon of truth and evil and was struggling against a mere champion villain who specializes in defense.
If she was on the strong side of the princesses, she should've handled all of these situations neg diff.

Varagav was an user of a workshop item that made him invulnerable. And even then androsi won the fight without a scratch on her through her wits.

Elaine at the name hunt station was the single most skilled regular of her class. And probably quite more skilled than even regulars above her (which is different from her being stronger than someone specifically). On top of that she had every advantage the floor afforded her along with expensive probably ranker level equipment and BS skills (fenryl) that earned her a spot as a princess. I don't see why this should be a fight that androsi should win easily. And even then, through the arc the implication was that androsi could actually take on kaiser if she managed to fight her again (which the circumstances prevented her from doing).

Androsi being weaker than mascheny, definitely one of the stronger princesses around just in general, is not an indication that androsi is a low tier princess or anything of the sort. I would also make another case here: When aguero and rak learned their shinsoo attributes aguero only managed a half assed ice spear and rak only managed rock manipulation but not a rock shield. Basically even half assing a shinsoo attribute gives you a pretty big boost. Mascheny was using some capacity of lightning spear at the time (though less solid looking than eduan's lightning spear) and ascensio at least was extremely competent at using his spear, essentially netting them both at least a portion of the boost at the time. We also see how aguero performed against floor test monsters before bam fought zahard and his performance is vastly improved. It's not a stretch that shinsoo attributes leveled the field for androsi at this time.

 

[hblock]

Varagav was an user of a workshop item that made him invulnerable. And even then androsi won the fight without a scratch on her through her wits.

Which is oughtright irrelevant, we know that he isn't comparable to folks like Asencio or Icardi when they were arround his floor. A strong princess would've one shotted him, Blood Tamara or not.

Elaine at the name hunt station was the single most skilled regular of her class.

Not only the twins are arguably far stronger than her but being the top 1 reg is irrelevant consdering it's rare to meet a regular with the potential to become a top 300 HR, including the top regs of each class.

Androsi being weaker than mascheny

Not just weaker, cannon fodder. You need an army of Endorsis to stand a chance against D-class Mas' in base. Heck, even Data Asencio would fodderize her based on their respective feats. So yeah, she's a low level princess.

 

[kkck]

Which is oughtright irrelevant, we know that he isn't comparable to folks like Asencio or Icardi when they were arround his floor. A strong princess would've one shotted him, Blood Tamara or not.


Not only the twins are arguably far stronger than her but being the top 1 reg is irrelevant consdering it's rare to meet a regular with the potential to become a top 300 HR, including the top regs of each class.


Not just weaker, cannon fodder. You need an army of Endorsis to stand a chance against D-class Mas' in base. Heck, even Data Asencio would fodderize her based on their respective feats. So yeah, she's a low level princess.

We have zero context regarding how strong ascensio or mascheny were at floor 29. There's zero reason for us to think they could have one shot varagaf through blood tamara essentially 15 floors before from where they were at during the hidden floor arc.

but... why? Because of their anima? There's no certainty the anima would guarantee a victory over androsi or even net them an easy victory.

That completely ignores my post but ok.

 

[hblock]

We have zero context regarding how strong ascensio or mascheny were at floor 29. There's zero reason for us to think they could have one shot varagaf through blood tamara essentially 15 floors before from where they were at during the hidden floor arc.

We know how strong he was compared to Endoris in the same floor. He'd fodderize her, which means he'd fodderize Varavarg'. Iirc, Endorsi put some damage into him after kicking him from high height, Asencio's firepower was shown to be much higher and could be unleashed from any range (flysing fish).

but... why? Because of their anima? There's no certainty the anima would guarantee a victory over androsi or even net them an easy victory.

The fact that you're looking into such details implies a comparability between Endorsi and Kaiser. A strong princess wouldn't even consider Kaiser an opponent and would just casually walk on her as if she was nothing.
As I said in my previous post, if you need an army of D-class Endorsis to bease D-class Mas' in base, then it's pretty obvious that Endorsi is low level princess and that's by being generous.

 

[kkck]

We know how strong he was compared to Endoris in the same floor. He'd fodderize her, which means he'd fodderize Varavarg'. Iirc, Endorsi put some damage into him after kicking him from high height, Asencio's firepower was shown to be much higher and could be unleashed from any range (flysing fish).


The fact that you're looking into such details implies a comparability between Endorsi and Kaiser. A strong princess wouldn't even consider Kaiser an opponent and would just casually walk on her as if she was nothing.
As I said in my previous post, if you need an army of D-class Endorsis to bease D-class Mas' in base, then it's pretty obvious that Endorsi is low level princess and that's by being generous.

Roughly? that still doesn't translate into ascensio being able to foderize anyone 15 floors earlier. We don't even know if he had the same techniques 15 floors earlier. You are making up convenient stuff to defend something which isn't even remotely defensible. Your imaginary headcannon ascensio might as well foderize the actual zahard and impregnate enne with his flying fish spear technique.

But... we saw androsi and one of the twins fight. Nothing about the confrontation indicated androsi was at a disadvantage. Neither of the princesses pushed the other. So.. if not her anima then what are you basing this on? Certainly not their on screen performance.

 

[King Dryst]

She was probably stronger than bam up until the name hunt station...

Man, I'm well known for ragging on Baam and even I wouldn't call him as pathetic as this.

 

[hblock]

Man, I'm well known for ragging on Baam and even I wouldn't call him as pathetic as this.

Considering the amount of struggle he had against Kaiser, I'd say both of them were comparable in the NHS, which means Baam only became comparable to Endorsi after completing the 1st step of revolution, just prior to the Dallar show (since he didn't grew much between these two arcs).

--- Double Post Merged, May 28, 2022, Original Post Date: May 28, 2022 ---

Roughly? that still doesn't translate into ascensio being able to foderize anyone 15 floors earlier. We don't even know if he had the same techniques 15 floors earlier. You are making up convenient stuff to defend something which isn't even remotely defensible

Let me guess, you're going to arbitrarilly speculate that Asencio was somehow far weaker in the 30th floor (because you want) and take it as a face-value just in attempt to justify Endorsi's (and Baam's friends in general) pathetic showing in the HF ?

Your imaginary headcannon ascensio might as well foderize the actual zahard and impregnate enne with his flying fish spear technique.

I don't use headcanon, I use feats and statement purely, nothing more nothing less. My whole reasoning is based on the performances of everyone in the data floor, in which case, eveyone in Baam's team (Baam included prior to revolution) was far weaker than any of the Khun trio on the same stage.