Games Mafia Game 103 - Chainsam Pan: End Game

[Copy Panda]

Spoiler: Here are zhe night actions!

I thank you all for playing! It was an entertaining game to spectate. I hope most enjoyed the gameplay as well! Thank you to my fellow co-host @SirSamuel016 (and briefly @Farfalla) for providing the necessary support and inputs during the game! Once again thank you @Valhalla for the avatars! And most of all, congratulations mafia team (as the kids say nowadays) for copping the W! Also shoutouts to @GB for not speaking the truth once this game!

It was a simple but engaging experience. As you can see, the ???? was just another townie. In hindsight perhaps not as impactful but it was very omo seeing you all speculate over the identity of this mystery role. Unfortunately, in this sterile environment, we didn't get to trial the devil properly, as they both passed quickly. I think in special circumstances the potential is there, it is rather powerful in a more role-heavy comp. There are just enough secondaries for the psychiatrist to put IQ into analyzing their result (a difficult role to play in this game). Bomb's dominant strategy I think was somehow getting the mafia to kill them (feigning devil? ). Freeman... Died uncovered. And also came out quite early. If they had to die, that was probably the best time. The traitors deployed interesting strategies. Very exotic approach. Mafia overall played pretty decent; the first few nights town mislynched and only towards the mid-to-end did non-towns start perishing.

I am curious what you thought of the game and each other's performances! Was town too lazy? Was ???? too spicy? Did non-town play strong enough? Curious what you guys think of such role- and mechanicless comps ~

Once again, thank you, everyone! It was super spicy


​

 

[Lambu]

My vote is not thrown, it has every possible kill intent behind it.
This is called using the vote not throwing it.

Why Gry?

Chapter 1: The Fake Intervention

- His vote on D1 is fake, he stated he will intervene to save seraph and james.

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But his actual vote is completely irrelevant.
He didn't go for a kill, but just moved it to shinobo who nobody was even talking about, they was no reason anybody else would vote her, so he knew she would stay at 2 votes and he also voted last.

He still changed his vote because he felt pressured by this posts.



So he made his useless vote move.

Chapter 2: The Fake Piper

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

One of his first post of the day!



Later in the same post.



This idea that a 3 mafia team would lynch a town as second or third voter (instead of just lucking out with a first placeholder vote) is laughable, he justify it by the reward that if by some miracle the person lynched is Death Miller it will be a perfect move.

First nobody even considered this, did any of you think of this possibility? Sounds like something he tought about in the Night phase as something to misslead town with.

Second it has a 1% chance of success, even if you think of it you won't do it.

Third this goes against my vote analysis that that whole shit show at the end was 100% town doing, mafia is very likely to be among the placeholder voters or if ballsy to make useless Intervention moves like Gry, Gry knew marm wasn't mafia so he tried to put himself in a position where he can say I told you!

He then spends the day arguing with Farfalla.

Chapter 3: The humble scum

I spent all game as usual talking and testing Gry, I do this every game as town.
It will take too long to recite, but the gist of it is:

He handled my attack as expected by ignoring it and he acknowledged that this is normal behavior from me.
(Trying to get on my good side).

Day 2, tatsumaki get killed without a reason.
My explanation is that mafia:
- Was afraid to conflict with ??? possible kill
- Was expecting Farf and Lambu to be suspects for killing Marm
- Killing Farf would put a countdown on Gry's life expectancy (he will have to die next or be suspected).
- Delaying Farf kill, gives him enough days to get to D4 where town throws and Gry is unstoppable.

With farf being very green (as much as you can be in a vanilla game) and Lambu somehow not triggering my scum alarms.
This plan has backfired as it clear Gry is a better kill than Tatsu if mafia doesn't know the roles.

When confronted with the question of how he explains Tatsu being killed over him he says:



He acts like the idea that he should be dead if no doctor is alien, he is very humble it seems xD
While the truth is, we all know that unless we spam body guard or doctor on him, he won't live past N1.

The fact he didn't acknowledge that this put him in a bad light, shows that he is in bad faith.

Chapter 4: The Confrontation

Scum Gry attacked me from D1 until D3 exclusively 2 games ago and got me lynched.

The reason I attacked him first thing in the day, is to see if he will try to do it again, I was ready for it this time.

As expected he saw through my plan and choose the appeasement route.

Saying this is normal Shad and that I look fine and so on, trying to get me to trust him.

Day 2 I confronted him again about being alive.

This time he used the Shad is Obsessed argument.

The same Argument he used 2 games ago to get me killed.

I know for a fact he doesn't believe this idea, he used it as scum to kill me 2 games ago when I attacked him.

He is using it again to say isolate me and make me look like a crazy fan girl to avoid other to follow my request to vote on him.

The fact he hit me under the belt is the sign I was searching for since Day 1 to know for sure he is scum, he fucked up by playing this card, now I'm on him until the end of time.

~

I probably missed a lot of things, but meeting in 5 minutes.

This is a game about feeling and perception and I believe my read on Gry has been always accurate.
If what it takes is for town to throw another game before they start taking me serieusly so be it, I'm completely ok with losing this game, my vote won't budge from him until one of us dies.

The idea that it safe to leave Gry alive until D4 is dumb.

- He is the mastermind of mafia, killing the head should be a priority.
- If he gets to D4 there is no more killing him, he is very used to winning as mafia, if you guys could kill him late in the game he wouldn't be winning so much as mafia!
- We need to lynch mafia, not leave the highest suspect alive and go lynch people with less chance, just because it Gry >.<


~
I voted already, now I just sit back and watch you guys throw as usual xD

Top 10 Best Accusation posts right here.

I can't say I agree from a logical standpoint, but no way in hell I defend Gry after this same situation in Game 100

nah why. clever mafia blends in with town. if lambu is town and gnut as mafia uses his suggestion. makes gnut look less sus.

but i prolly cant mention often enough. i go with my gut feeling

Well according to shino Im some kind of mafia idiot or something, I dont know what to think about it tbh

 

[Farfalla]

Updating my impressions list:

Mazino: [yellow] low post count with 0 engagement, at first I thought it was cause he said he'd be busy but then he just kept saying he had no opinions and it was day 1... showed up now but I'll wait to see how he'll play from now on.
Greg: [yellow] his initial posts felt town to me (careless sharing stuff; gunning what he perceived as fake), but he falls on the Mazino case where we have nothing of real substance at this point to go with... Dropping this cause why not: Greg was very active during the night phase, based on his activity log.
Bel: [orange] don't rly like her defense for not participating, even with the argument that she doesn't like the det plan cause it reveals people and if it doesn't, it gives mafia the time to build a story (which is irrelevant, wtv role devils chose to use, it's likely they'll only come clean later on so mafia have that time nevertheless). Bel is overall an early game passive player that grows more active over time and can be quite assertive as town, so I often let her be until midgame onwards. Don't want her to believe she can always be comfortable and get a pass tho, I'm putting her in orange mostly 'cause I didn't rly like her arguments as I said. Felt crafted over being asked, I can easily be wrong tho.
James: [green] can't see a mafia/traitor/??? lying about being freeman. Yes, a real freeman maybe wouldn't come out so early to challenge him and he could even have lied as town bomb to bait, but I'll leave it as that for now. Wish he was more participative tho, considering he's a sharp player that is fairly trusted now (thinking out loud).
GB: [yellow] imo GB went from playing little with a chaotic take which rang town to me to being completely in the shadows... that chaotic play I remember had him as an active player, just very focused on a few things, but dropping reminders about them all the time. He feels too passive now.
DD: [yellow] feels too passive, imo (not talking about the shout meme, but low engagement). Seems like he was busy during day 1 so there's that, I do like some of his D2 posts tho (as in I agree with some of his statements of appreciate some consideration he raised).
shino: [orange] also feels like avoiding engagement; reforced she wasn't expectating but admitted she wasn't afk in D1 and just didn't want to say stuff (post #310); has been building a case on Lambu but won't rly say why (what was that that you didn't like about the exchange Lambu had with Greg?) - if it's just a feeling, that's fine, but what I recall from Shino is a player that posts lil but challenges people in their actions here and there, that's missing overall so far (and I'm sorry if I've missed a post where you explained it further); just imagine she'd be coming out at this point with more points than just responding to suspicions or focusing on Lambu alone. I'll admit that with Shino and Bel things stem from me being wary of them as well.
Asako: [green] besides James, is the only one that looks fairly green to me, 'cause she's participative, opinionate and I recall scum Asako to be more insecure.
Bia: [yellow] as in neutral (tho I feel better about her than the majority of the rest). Her explanation for why she placed a second vote on Sera felt legit to me (I had checked the votecount back then cause I had the same curiosity as Tatsu, and it was indeed outdated); it felt a bit weird to me how she saw a benefit in just lynching James and would even take the chance of being the last vote on a bomb but huh... can't see why a scum would risk dying this early either. Bia is often mysterious to me but so far she seems more agreeable on than not.

From those players onwards I won't reread everything so feel free to correct what I recall/the impressions I have:
Lambu: [yellow] in D1 he felt like testing the waters to me, now he reminds me more of his angry town self (maybe cause I'm one of the people he's arguing with the most). I don't think he's scum per se but won't put my hand on the fire for him this time, I legit failed to see some of his points, maybe I'm just being asisine and failing to be at his feet tho.
Shad: [yellow] another one I don't suspect per se but can't really vouche for. Some people see him as his chaotic and obstinate town self, but I'm still over the fence if his persistence (on reasons I don't rly agree with btw, even tho I agree with the outcome of it) is a change of take aligned with his nature. So neutral.
Gry: [orange] maybe I'm taking things personal, yes, maybe I'm being paranoid/stubborn; but the collection of points he built on me and HOW he did it (voting me 'as a mediator' after 3 posts; recurrently challenging my vote trying to debunk my reasoning which ain't invalid; taking a ride on Lambs accusation when he knew the meaning of what Lambu was questioning; saying that pointing out that Sera is being inconsistent makes 0 sense; and so on) just rly feels malicious in my PoV (and, again, malicious as in scummy and not offensive); also not a fan of how he 'forgot' about something so basic like sanity in D1 and that he for a long while also felt quite passive to me overall, which ain't the town Marcie image I'm used to.

I didn't backread the post so maybe some things look messy...

 

[Lambu]

Also I need to rest now, need my siesta to recharge batteries. I'll catch up later.

 

[GrySun]

I can't say I agree from a logical standpoint, but no way in hell I defend Gry after this same situation in Game 100

The only factor that‘s the same between this and that game is Shad

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

Updating my impressions list:



I didn't backread the post so maybe some things look messy...

I think you‘re missing Seraph?

 

[Lambu]

Before leaving

Updating my impressions list:



I didn't backread the post so maybe some things look messy...

Agree with most of it, except Asako being Green, she's yellow to me but I dont have anyone in green right now anyway so not a big change.

 

[Farfalla]

I think you‘re missing Seraph?

That's what I get for multitasking. Will add it and repost.

 

[Mazino]

Well according to shino Im some kind of mafia idiot or something, I dont know what to think about it tbh

Before leaving



Agree with most of it, except Asako being Green, she's yellow to me but I dont have anyone in green right now anyway so not a big change.

with this i agree. so maybe now you get shino. everything is possible

 

[Farfalla]

Mazino: [yellow] low post count with 0 engagement, at first I thought it was cause he said he'd be busy but then he just kept saying he had no opinions and it was day 1... showed up now but I'll wait to see how he'll play from now on.
Greg: [yellow] his initial posts felt town to me (careless sharing stuff; gunning what he perceived as fake), but he falls on the Mazino case where we have nothing of real substance at this point to go with... Dropping this cause why not: Greg was very active during the night phase, based on his activity log.
Bel: [orange] don't rly like her defense for not participating, even with the argument that she doesn't like the det plan cause it reveals people and if it doesn't, it gives mafia the time to build a story (which is irrelevant, wtv role devils chose to use, it's likely they'll only come clean later on so mafia have that time nevertheless). Bel is overall an early game passive player that grows more active over time and can be quite assertive as town, so I often let her be until midgame onwards. Don't want her to believe she can always be comfortable and get a pass tho, I'm putting her in orange mostly 'cause I didn't rly like her arguments as I said. Felt crafted over being asked, I can easily be wrong tho.
James: [green] can't see a mafia/traitor/??? lying about being freeman. Yes, a real freeman maybe wouldn't come out so early to challenge him and he could even have lied as town bomb to bait, but I'll leave it as that for now. Wish he was more participative tho, considering he's a sharp player that is fairly trusted now (thinking out loud).
GB: [yellow] imo GB went from playing little with a chaotic take which rang town to me to being completely in the shadows... that chaotic play I remember had him as an active player, just very focused on a few things, but dropping reminders about them all the time. He feels too passive now.
DD: [yellow] feels too passive, imo (not talking about the shout meme, but low engagement). Seems like he was busy during day 1 so there's that, I do like some of his D2 posts tho (as in I agree with some of his statements of appreciate some consideration he raised).
shino: [orange] also feels like avoiding engagement; reforced she wasn't expectating but admitted she wasn't afk in D1 and just didn't want to say stuff (post #310); has been building a case on Lambu but won't rly say why (what was that that you didn't like about the exchange Lambu had with Greg?) - if it's just a feeling, that's fine, but what I recall from Shino is a player that posts lil but challenges people in their actions here and there, that's missing overall so far (and I'm sorry if I've missed a post where you explained it further); just imagine she'd be coming out at this point with more points than just responding to suspicions or focusing on Lambu alone. I'll admit that with Shino and Bel things stem from me being wary of them as well.
Asako: [green] besides James, is the only one that looks fairly green to me, 'cause she's participative, opinionate and I recall scum Asako to be more insecure.
Bia: [yellow] as in neutral (tho I feel better about her than the majority of the rest). Her explanation for why she placed a second vote on Sera felt legit to me (I had checked the votecount back then cause I had the same curiosity as Tatsu, and it was indeed outdated); it felt a bit weird to me how she saw a benefit in just lynching James and would even take the chance of being the last vote on a bomb but huh... can't see why a scum would risk dying this early either. Bia is often mysterious to me but so far she seems more agreeable on than not.
Seraph [orange]: maybe I just hit my annoyance point again; he seemed green to me at first, cause imo scum Sera ain't proactive and won't start a game with a lenghty impression post; but his participation after that can be resumed in a vote process that lacked consistency to me, self comiseration derailment and other types of participation only if pushed.

From those players onwards I won't reread everything so feel free to correct what I recall/the impressions I have:
Lambu: [yellow] in D1 he felt like testing the waters to me, now he reminds me more of his angry town self (maybe cause I'm one of the people he's arguing with the most). I don't think he's scum per se but won't put my hand on the fire for him this time, I legit failed to see some of his points, maybe I'm just being asisine and failing to be at his feet tho.
Shad: [yellow] another one I don't suspect per se but can't really vouche for. Some people see him as his chaotic and obstinate town self, but I'm still over the fence if his persistence (on reasons I don't rly agree with btw, even tho I agree with the outcome of it) is a change of take aligned with his nature. So neutral.
Gry: [orange] maybe I'm taking things personal, yes, maybe I'm being paranoid/stubborn; but the collection of points he built on me and HOW he did it (voting me 'as a mediator' after 3 posts; recurrently challenging my vote trying to debunk my reasoning which ain't invalid; taking a ride on Lambs accusation when he knew the meaning of what Lambu was questioning; saying that pointing out that Sera is being inconsistent makes 0 sense; and so on) just rly feels malicious in my PoV (and, again, malicious as in scummy and not offensive); also not a fan of how he 'forgot' about something so basic like sanity in D1 and that he for a long while also felt quite passive to me overall, which ain't the town Marcie image I'm used to.

 

[digitaldude]

It looks to me as if the Marm lynch came out of James screaming he's freeman. She was the convenient target in the ensuing panic especially with some players who were so sure she was scum pushing for it. It backfired and that's unfortunate.

As for Tatsu, she agreed with James, voted Pom and suspected seraph. So unless one of these 3 panicked I can't see why she would be priority target.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

@Shad am I misunderstanding your argument against Gry? You locked him because he's still alive and that's it?

My vote is not thrown, it has every possible kill intent behind it.
This is called using the vote not throwing it.

Why Gry?

Chapter 1: The Fake Intervention

- His vote on D1 is fake, he stated he will intervene to save seraph and james.

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But his actual vote is completely irrelevant.
He didn't go for a kill, but just moved it to shinobo who nobody was even talking about, they was no reason anybody else would vote her, so he knew she would stay at 2 votes and he also voted last.

He still changed his vote because he felt pressured by this posts.



So he made his useless vote move.

Chapter 2: The Fake Piper

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

One of his first post of the day!



Later in the same post.



This idea that a 3 mafia team would lynch a town as second or third voter (instead of just lucking out with a first placeholder vote) is laughable, he justify it by the reward that if by some miracle the person lynched is Death Miller it will be a perfect move.

First nobody even considered this, did any of you think of this possibility? Sounds like something he tought about in the Night phase as something to misslead town with.

Second it has a 1% chance of success, even if you think of it you won't do it.

Third this goes against my vote analysis that that whole shit show at the end was 100% town doing, mafia is very likely to be among the placeholder voters or if ballsy to make useless Intervention moves like Gry, Gry knew marm wasn't mafia so he tried to put himself in a position where he can say I told you!

He then spends the day arguing with Farfalla.

Chapter 3: The humble scum

I spent all game as usual talking and testing Gry, I do this every game as town.
It will take too long to recite, but the gist of it is:

He handled my attack as expected by ignoring it and he acknowledged that this is normal behavior from me.
(Trying to get on my good side).

Day 2, tatsumaki get killed without a reason.
My explanation is that mafia:
- Was afraid to conflict with ??? possible kill
- Was expecting Farf and Lambu to be suspects for killing Marm
- Killing Farf would put a countdown on Gry's life expectancy (he will have to die next or be suspected).
- Delaying Farf kill, gives him enough days to get to D4 where town throws and Gry is unstoppable.

With farf being very green (as much as you can be in a vanilla game) and Lambu somehow not triggering my scum alarms.
This plan has backfired as it clear Gry is a better kill than Tatsu if mafia doesn't know the roles.

When confronted with the question of how he explains Tatsu being killed over him he says:



He acts like the idea that he should be dead if no doctor is alien, he is very humble it seems xD
While the truth is, we all know that unless we spam body guard or doctor on him, he won't live past N1.

The fact he didn't acknowledge that this put him in a bad light, shows that he is in bad faith.

Chapter 4: The Confrontation

Scum Gry attacked me from D1 until D3 exclusively 2 games ago and got me lynched.

The reason I attacked him first thing in the day, is to see if he will try to do it again, I was ready for it this time.

As expected he saw through my plan and choose the appeasement route.

Saying this is normal Shad and that I look fine and so on, trying to get me to trust him.

Day 2 I confronted him again about being alive.

This time he used the Shad is Obsessed argument.

The same Argument he used 2 games ago to get me killed.

I know for a fact he doesn't believe this idea, he used it as scum to kill me 2 games ago when I attacked him.

He is using it again to say isolate me and make me look like a crazy fan girl to avoid other to follow my request to vote on him.

The fact he hit me under the belt is the sign I was searching for since Day 1 to know for sure he is scum, he fucked up by playing this card, now I'm on him until the end of time.

~

I probably missed a lot of things, but meeting in 5 minutes.

This is a game about feeling and perception and I believe my read on Gry has been always accurate.
If what it takes is for town to throw another game before they start taking me serieusly so be it, I'm completely ok with losing this game, my vote won't budge from him until one of us dies.

The idea that it safe to leave Gry alive until D4 is dumb.

- He is the mastermind of mafia, killing the head should be a priority.
- If he gets to D4 there is no more killing him, he is very used to winning as mafia, if you guys could kill him late in the game he wouldn't be winning so much as mafia!
- We need to lynch mafia, not leave the highest suspect alive and go lynch people with less chance, just because it Gry >.<


~
I voted already, now I just sit back and watch you guys throw as usual xD

Amazing post, maybe it is gry.

 

[Belserion]

I didn't regret my vote (speaking of creating words huh), I achieved my goal (James lived). I just shared that imo Shino would have been better than Marm. I didn't build anything cause what I had on Shino or Marm were very vague - for Shino is that she's jokeful and avoidant which gets me alerted constantly, on Marm it was Lambs campaign. I wouldn't defend Marm as town at that point, just wouldn't defend her as scum either.

Is this what's behind the Gry/Farf/Lambu debates? Because otherwise I'm still a bit lost. Marm was Lynched and flipped Town. James claimed freeman and like Lambu said, he's basically dug his own grave if he's lying. So if we operate under the assumption that James is Town as well, then the argument is basically about the way the votes were changed to save James? To summarise: Farf thinks Gry's reaction to her vote was fake? Lambu thinks Farf was anti James despite her saying she prefers to lynch Marm over Seraph and James? Gry thinks Farf's end of day voting was uncertain and that's makes her suspicious?

As for Lambu/Farf/Seraph, I mean Seraph already said he would save himself. That's what all his justifications against James and not believing him comes down to.

 

[Farfalla]

Funnily enough, even tho I suspect Gry, I don't super agree with some points Shad shared (chapter 1 is flawed cause there had been discussions about Shino - altho I also think that if he'd rather have Shino dead over Marm that much he could have been more proactive about it). And my issue with chapter 3 is just cause I'm one that believe that mafia could have tried to be super safe and avoid wtv doc could be used in N1, so I don't see people 'not being picked in N1' as an issue right now. The other points are interesting, as food for the thoughts.

 

[Shad]

Back from meeting,

I'm happy you guys had fun reading that post, at least no matter who get lynched, we all laughed xD

Wow Shad, now we‘re back to it being cute and funny The main problem with your whole analysis is that you approach everything with „Gry is scum“ in mind from the get-go.You can do this to anyone‘s posts and frame them badly, but doesn‘t change that it falls apart if you don‘t look at it all with „Gry scum“ glasses.
Like, there‘s little I can say here to change your mind since it all assumes way too many things, that are assumed for out of game reasons. I could go through your points one by one and will do so if people other than you want me to, since you‘re too „convinced“ for it to lead anywhere.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

The super short version of what’s flawed:
-chapter 1 ignores all my posts with Pom on switching to someone else(since me switching alone does nothing and I wanted more votes)
-chapter 2 is simply you disagreeing. Mafia in your mind never vote on leading lynch, only when they must save a friend. If that were true this game would be so easy.
-chapter 3 is you not understanding how genius Gry could possibly be left unkilled by mafia on N1, when there‘s endless hypothetical reasons
-chapter 4 is you seeing patterns to old games where there are none. You are obsessed, no better way to describe this sort of focusing over nothing.

I'm not claiming this to be science or that I have a way to know things for sure.
I believe you can take every point I made and give a good reason.

All I can do is list everything I believe hints at you being mafia.
Day 1 you said this isnt a vanilla game and that we do have roles to check you.
Today a Devil died, so it is more of a vanilla game than ever.

I'm not expecting you to vote mafia every day, but I can recognize a town gry when I see it, and I don't see it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022 ---

@Seraph is a player I don't know much about, I mentioned Day 1 that I didn't like the way he phrased his posts.

A mix of trying to survive and making jokes, which reminds me of how mafia people tend to handle deadly situations.

But I can't say for sure if this is just who he is as a person.

You guys should make the call on that, whoever knows him well please explain if this is normal Seraph or no.

 

[digitaldude]

Who fears the doc on night 1 with that many players come on now.

 

[Belserion]

as i told above. with me it was just gut feeling before he voted marm. then after he voted her and the way he voted her made me vote him this day too.
and shinobis view is explained in the quote up there isnt it

My only issue with the gnut situation is that with 5 mins left and not being able to follow the game, he should have voted on someone with no votes instead of attempting to bandwagon. He'd already said he would be busy day 1 so it would have been understandable.

 

[Shad]

My only issue with the gnut situation is that with 5 mins left and not being able to follow the game, he should have voted on someone with no votes instead of attempting to bandwagon. He'd already said he would be busy day 1 so it would have been understandable.

His vote looks to me very inconsequential.

(Desktop only)

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Replay from step 19 to the end, I can find any ill intent in it.
Can you check for yourself and tell me if I'm missing something?

Short version is:
- Only person he could be saving is James, which is a good thing since we all wanted him saved.
- All the last voted happend in the same minute, when I'm mafia I find it really hard to decide what to vote when everybody is voting and votes could be not updated and only few minutes left, I don't see how he would have a plan in the middle of that mess, only obvious plan is save james and that sounds fine.


My main concern from @gnut is that he isn't playing :/

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

I can find any ill intent in it.

Can't*

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022 ---

I'm concerned about GB's vote pattern.

Not sure what he is doing but if he lynches another town, this could be bad, he could be just using his reputation for being motivated by first blood and the fact most people think he is a coin flip to keep lynching town until we finally decide to do something about it.

It not the normal mafia plan but it may works on him.
Since he could get multiple misslynches before stopped.

I get the feeling he is looking to first vote people with a high chance of being lynched.

D1 he voted me, nothing happened then tried again with Marm and it worked.
D2 he jumped on Seraph at the first occasion.

Not saying he is mafia, but if he is we won't be lynching town for 2 days, for now just keep this idea in mind.

 

[Lady pompom]

My vote is not thrown, it has every possible kill intent behind it.
This is called using the vote not throwing it.

Why Gry?

Chapter 1: The Fake Intervention

- His vote on D1 is fake, he stated he will intervene to save seraph and james.

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But his actual vote is completely irrelevant.
He didn't go for a kill, but just moved it to shinobo who nobody was even talking about, they was no reason anybody else would vote her, so he knew she would stay at 2 votes and he also voted last.

He still changed his vote because he felt pressured by this posts.



So he made his useless vote move.

Chapter 2: The Fake Piper

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

One of his first post of the day!



Later in the same post.



This idea that a 3 mafia team would lynch a town as second or third voter (instead of just lucking out with a first placeholder vote) is laughable, he justify it by the reward that if by some miracle the person lynched is Death Miller it will be a perfect move.

First nobody even considered this, did any of you think of this possibility? Sounds like something he tought about in the Night phase as something to misslead town with.

Second it has a 1% chance of success, even if you think of it you won't do it.

Third this goes against my vote analysis that that whole shit show at the end was 100% town doing, mafia is very likely to be among the placeholder voters or if ballsy to make useless Intervention moves like Gry, Gry knew marm wasn't mafia so he tried to put himself in a position where he can say I told you!

He then spends the day arguing with Farfalla.

Chapter 3: The humble scum

I spent all game as usual talking and testing Gry, I do this every game as town.
It will take too long to recite, but the gist of it is:

He handled my attack as expected by ignoring it and he acknowledged that this is normal behavior from me.
(Trying to get on my good side).

Day 2, tatsumaki get killed without a reason.
My explanation is that mafia:
- Was afraid to conflict with ??? possible kill
- Was expecting Farf and Lambu to be suspects for killing Marm
- Killing Farf would put a countdown on Gry's life expectancy (he will have to die next or be suspected).
- Delaying Farf kill, gives him enough days to get to D4 where town throws and Gry is unstoppable.

With farf being very green (as much as you can be in a vanilla game) and Lambu somehow not triggering my scum alarms.
This plan has backfired as it clear Gry is a better kill than Tatsu if mafia doesn't know the roles.

When confronted with the question of how he explains Tatsu being killed over him he says:



He acts like the idea that he should be dead if no doctor is alien, he is very humble it seems xD
While the truth is, we all know that unless we spam body guard or doctor on him, he won't live past N1.

The fact he didn't acknowledge that this put him in a bad light, shows that he is in bad faith.

Chapter 4: The Confrontation

Scum Gry attacked me from D1 until D3 exclusively 2 games ago and got me lynched.

The reason I attacked him first thing in the day, is to see if he will try to do it again, I was ready for it this time.

As expected he saw through my plan and choose the appeasement route.

Saying this is normal Shad and that I look fine and so on, trying to get me to trust him.

Day 2 I confronted him again about being alive.

This time he used the Shad is Obsessed argument.

The same Argument he used 2 games ago to get me killed.

I know for a fact he doesn't believe this idea, he used it as scum to kill me 2 games ago when I attacked him.

He is using it again to say isolate me and make me look like a crazy fan girl to avoid other to follow my request to vote on him.

The fact he hit me under the belt is the sign I was searching for since Day 1 to know for sure he is scum, he fucked up by playing this card, now I'm on him until the end of time.

~

I probably missed a lot of things, but meeting in 5 minutes.

This is a game about feeling and perception and I believe my read on Gry has been always accurate.
If what it takes is for town to throw another game before they start taking me serieusly so be it, I'm completely ok with losing this game, my vote won't budge from him until one of us dies.

The idea that it safe to leave Gry alive until D4 is dumb.

- He is the mastermind of mafia, killing the head should be a priority.
- If he gets to D4 there is no more killing him, he is very used to winning as mafia, if you guys could kill him late in the game he wouldn't be winning so much as mafia!
- We need to lynch mafia, not leave the highest suspect alive and go lynch people with less chance, just because it Gry >.<


~
I voted already, now I just sit back and watch you guys throw as usual xD

Funny convo, but I don’t agree all of this. I really think you overfocused on Gry too much and while I do understand the argument of Gry not pushing more for a shino lynch, I don;t think he could have done much for it considering both there was little time in the DP to get everyone to change opinions plus some others being bent on lynching Marm (and having votes on her already). I sincerely think you wasted your vote randomly while you could have tried to use it more wisely in actual scum, in fact this just makes you look shady in my eyes with an attitude of “Gry didn’t die last night, he’s scum", which is the basis of your whole point against him.

And assuming James is pretty town, I’d like to hear his opinion too on suspects.

I’d rather poke more the quiet ones to talk, @Mazino @gnut @James Rye who do you guys suspect the most and why? Can you share what you think about Marm’s lynch and the night results?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

Also, @GB @shinobi thoughts on those questions I asked above?

 

[Farfalla]

Who fears the doc on night 1 with that many players come on now.

If I was mafia and my team would want to kill, say, Gry, I'd be very vocal against it 'cause it just doesn't look worth it to take the risk of missing a kill.

Short version is:
- Only person he could be saving is James, which is a good thing since we all wanted him saved.

Or Sera, Bia moved her vote from him just 5 mins before the day ended. Greg hadn't voted by then but he did so only 3 mins later, and could be missing a lot of things/move in the game from being away and running.

 

[Shad]

@Lady pompom

Unless you can vouch for him being busy IRL why do you assume he had to wait until last second to vote/intervene, he could have just as well waited until the last second so that he won't be able to coordinate a save on marm.

I liked marm posts and she had 20 of them, above average post count! if asked I would have voted an inactive.

I sincerely think you wasted your vote randomly while you could have tried to use it more wisely in actual scum

You are saying Gry isn't scum and that you will use your vote on an actual scum.

You are very confident in both statements.

You idea that I'm focused on him is just your opinion, if you check my posts i share opinions on a lot of people.

You idea that I'm wasting my vote is just your opinion, from my perspective I used my vote.

Anyway just answering your posts, you do you.

If I was mafia and my team would want to kill, say, Gry, I'd be very vocal against it 'cause it just doesn't look worth it to take the risk of missing a kill

Every devil will prioritize their own survival over Gry's survival, they need to use detective to have something to reveal, the threat of doctor usage was never real, from my perspective I don't see how mafia won't come to this conclusion.

Especially with lambu stating in the open on D1.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

If gry or somebody lynched a mafia day 1 then yes maybe a doctor usage on them would be justifiable.

But useless D1 gry being protected just because he is gry is weak, compare to the other option of using detective.

 

[Lady pompom]

Update from yesterday

-Asako- neutral, pending to green. Her points make sense so far and while she hasn;tbeen actively pulling too many discussions, she’s still commenting.I do feel she was a bit more distant today than yesterday,though,would like to hear her opinion on lynch and her list of suspects. @Asako
- Belserion - She has been commenting more today, and trying to understand things, but I also want to hear more from her,so far I feel neutral about her playstyle, but again she usually plays like this.
- DD - neutral, but he was making interesting points and sharing his opinion about the lynch and night results.
- Farfalla - The whole argument with lambu and her last vote on marm did raise my alarm, so I’m a bit suspicious, but this could just prove Farfy is more town since she’d not risk voting a townie last min if she was mafia.
- GB - Started a lynch on Marm and isn’t particpating much in discussions either besides dropping votes, sounds like prime mafia behavior to me, he’s being random but that could be also just lawl, but he’s suspicious imo.
- Gnut - I genuinely think he was busy and trying t share infor, bt uncle is a seasoned mafia so I won't put my hand on fire.
- GrySun - Neutral, but the fact he didn;t try help a lynch on shino instead of Marm could ean something, still i think he looks like town.
- James - I still have my suspicions, but considering it’d be bad if he just lied about freeman (to town and to him), sounds town to me.
- Lambu - I still will be careful around this bird, but so far Lambu has been acting as town, or at least it sounds like. The only thing I have to hold against him is stirring more the Marm lynch.
- Mazino - Still hasn`t said much and seems to e laying low, which makes me suspicious, if he’s trying to hde something, mafia is probably onto him (if he isn't one of them).
- Seraph - I don‘t see a problem with his posts so far, he was almost lynched but managed to keep his composure still.
- Shad - I don't agree or see the point of him making a whole argumento on Gry based on the fact Gry didn‘t die, he might be convinced Gry is mafiaor want us to believe that, but it does’t bode well to me, even if he's town, I don’t trust him.
- Shinobi - Suspicious, she’s very quiet and despite having 2 votes yesterday she never adressed it or commented much, @shinobi who do you suspect the most currently and why?

When I think about it, Tatsu was talking about people grasping straws to try and find arguments, did you feel calledout, @Shad?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

@Lady pompom

Unless you can vouch for him being busy IRL why do you assume he had to wait until last second to vote/intervene, he could have just as well waited until the last second so that he won't be able to coordinate a save on marm.

I liked marm posts and she had 20 of them, above average post count! if asked I would have voted an inactive.



You are saying Gry isn't scum and that you will use your vote on an actual scum.

You are very confident in both statements.

You idea that I'm focused on him is just your opinion, if you check my posts i share opinions on a lot of people.

You idea that I'm wasting my vote is just your opinion, from my perspective I used my vote.

Anyway just answering your posts, you do you.



Every devil will prioritize their own survival over Gry's survival, they need to use detective to have something to reveal, the threat of doctor usage was never real, from my perspective I don't see how mafia won't come to this conclusion.

Especially with lambu stating in the open on D1.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

If gry or somebody lynched a mafia day 1 then yes maybe a doctor usage on them would be justifiable.

But useless D1 gry being protected just because he is gry is weak, compare to the other option of using detective.

True, just my opinion that he isn't scum, but you have to admit that you suddenly shouting Gry is scum in plain D2 when everyone barely talked looks very, very iffy.

About prioritizing survival, I think you’re missing the point here that even if no one protected Gry last night, it doesn’t change the fact mafia could be afraid of missing a kill, since Gry is a popular target. Tatsu was not really very engaged, but she did pull discussion and agreed with James points, maybe that provoked mafia enough and they were more sure of hitting her than someone else since she didn;t seem like any priority for protection And they hit the jackpot by killing her.

On the other hand, it’s possible that Tatsu death was not from a mafia kill but from an insane doc protecting her and the actual mafia kill failed to sane doc. I don't know who used what last night, but it’s a possibility, and since no one has useful results yet (probably) and hosts never answered to how sanity works, this could have happened.

 

[gnut]

Im here...why are you guys spamming so much in a basically plain vanilla game?
Literally everytime I check here there's 10+pgs...
Also...for those who do not know me....

Tagging me is not going to make me suddenly appear...im a grown man with grown man shit to do...I cant sit online all day and nite....

But im here