Games Mafia Game 107 - ACNH: The ManHel Tale - Game End

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Farfalla

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Aight, here are the game infos (setup and actions):
IDAffiliationPrimary RoleSecondary RoleSanityPlayer
1TownDetectiveInsaneMadNat
2TownSpySaneBrandish
3TownDoctorSaneAsako
4TownBansheeGB
5TownNecromancerShad
6TownPsychiatristBaka Taichou
7TownProstituteEvil3ye
8TownBulletproofLambu
9TownMorticiandigital
10TownPsychiatristHolt
11TownProsecutorLady Pompom
12Third PartySanta ClausKat
13Town/MafiaPirateTraitorJames Rye
13Town/MafiaNobleTraitorCrescent
15MafiaMafia DetectiveSirSamuel
16MafiaStrongmanGrySun
17MafiaMafia EscortCopy Panda
18MafiaPirateMarmalade
GIFTS LIST

❄ Brewster's Gift "Drink it hot or give it up." (Hot Potato)
The Hot Potato explodes at the end of a day designated by the host before the start of the game, killing the player holding it. The holder of the Hot Potato doesn't know when it will explode, but he can pass it to another player at night, separately from any night ability he has. This passing can't be blocked. If the holder gets killed, the Potato explodes killing both the holder and the killer; if the holder is lynched, the Potato [dies with him].
❄ Kicks' Gift "You never know how things might turn out." (single-use Bar Keeper redirect)
One player ends up being the drunkest and uses his night action on a random player.
❄ CJ's Gift "A night cruise is a good way to catch night fish." (single-use Mafia Detective)
The Mafia Detective has the ability to investigate one player per Night and learn the player's Role. Only he is told the role of his target via PM. Whenever the Mafia Detective's investigation ability is performed, he cannot be chosen to go for a kill on the same night.
❄ Wisp's Gift "Tah-Dahh!" (this player's votes are worded as "Ho ho ho" during the next day)

❄ Jingle's Gift "Isn't this the best time of the year, kid?" Mandatory 5th Gift
(Santa Clause: this gift allows the game to go on. At the end of the game, Santa wins with the other winning party. Happy celebration ;)



Now first lemme thank @Erinyes for her massive participation in the game. At first, I got the November slot to host alone, and she asked me to join and I'm so happy she did! She's not only a very curious and interested person so we had a very nice and easy time discussing our ideas, but she also has the strength and endurance of a lion... I was often dead while we were hosting, but Erinchi followed everything and kept the game organized. She barely slept @.@ And that's a testimony I really needed to share with you all, 'cause her dedication and calm deserve lots of appreciation.

Also thanks @Hardy and @Vandred for double-checking the game mech (and in Poop's case, the comp as well) and giving us your honest thoughts, so we could try to present a game that would be fair and entertaining to people.

And finally, even tho some other points were addressed already, I'd like to thank all the players, from the heart. I know this game was too soon because of my availability due to local holidays, and I know you guys were tired - which for sure didn't improve during this time lol. So I really need to commend you all, because you guys were either putting in a lot of time and effort inside the game, analyzing and discussing nonstop, or in the deadpad - you guys also got no rest. As hosts, that's the biggest kind of feedback we could get: to have you guys really onboard. Some moves were questionable, but no one can't say any of those teams weren't trying... it's only natural that drained people will make some mistakes, so to me that's another sign of the praise you guys deserve.

Quick comments about the game that I've mentioned in the deadpad already: in general, the idea with the mech was to add a simple new function (and we tried to map beforehand the main game new considerations we'd need to have it in place) but that could allow a new set of strategical moves to be exploited - now I would reconsider the priority we used since we realize it would have been more adherent to people's preference. The game also had 2 Traitors 'cause Pirate is a VERY weak mafia that can suicide and lose the ability to kill later on, so we wanted to give them better odds (lemme say it one more time in here that the notion that means town had 2 extra people to lynch is wrong, first because town had 2 killing tools in the Prosecutor and the Banshee, and second because they don't need to eliminate unrecruited traitors to win). It had 2 Psys 'cause even tho we wanted mafia to have better chances to recruit, that didn't mean we wanted them to recruit BOTH, so town had more chances to find at least one on the other hand (even if one role would get erased eventually), and at the same time the role could cause some confusion that mafia could exploit. The Mortician came in place to trace stuff like Santa and fake claims/transfers regarding any role/action that got "buried" - imo it's more effective than the SM because it can target antitown and spot unknown stuff that could still be in-game; it was a late game resource that had good chances of being effective with the role transfer mech. The Necromancer was also in there for its recycling capabilities since we'd have roles being lost, and in this setup it would be less OP than it usually is, since his options would still be reduced. The Santa was there for extra fun, imo, since the role could still be used even if the OG player and their wincon was gone: two gifts - that we expected to be the last ones - were clear signs that there was a Santa in-game in case it would fly by too successfully - and even that was just to cause some ruckus since the last gift allowed the game to go on after Santa would win - which to me it's a needed measure so we won't have sudden major frustration with an unexpected game end (I do understand why the game usually has to end when Santa is in it, so people don't ignore the role, but in this case we saw an opportunity to play around that and fix the issue regarding that); Santa's other gifts were there to provide some extra spice but unfortunately, as you can see in the night actions, I made a mistake while processing GB's action with the Hot Potato. GB got blocked by Evil when he tried to pass it to James and I overlooked it that the passing can't be blocked. It would have been simple to fix it during the day by PMing the both of them if Bran didn't spy on GB and, coincidentally, Sam hadn't claimed the exact same action and outcome. After discussing with some people, we reached the conclusion that the attitude that would cause the least interference and damage to a bigger number of players would be to just remove the Hot Potato from the game and inform that to GB, which is what we did.

GG mafia, you fought the long battle and won! GG town, it's never easy to be on the more clueless side, trying to put pieces together. GG Santa cause Santa is always fun~
 

Copy Panda

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You do realize the lambu only got killed so that I look sus, no matter what I claim? The mafia will then just 'oh yeah, the bird knew he gonna claim that and contest, so the evil killed the lambu so he cannot, sus!'.

But well assessment of everyone being a sus. We have to pick a poison here, but carefully.

I will later make a list of which death today will be most beneficial, but share you're thoughts too, WITHOUT LOCKING OUT.
I'm not gonna lock in this situation, and anyone who does is compromising town flexibility and thus worthy of scrutiny. And I will, but tbh I have to think about it a bit more. Putting my thoughts about you aside, between Holt, GB and the two spies I honestly don't immediately know how to proceed atm.

> Comp-wise, I'm thinking it's possible that maybe Santa was going to distribute secondaries that would exist aside from traitor and lover, but I still find it hard to believe that we'd need two (legit) psychs for that. The reason is that even if they'd continuously identify who has secondaries, we can still only lynch one player at a time. And unlike a sane det, the results don't necessarily indicate allegiance. And while Holt is actually coming off to me as pro-town, he's also an excellent player. But then again an excellent player wouldn't claim second psych I think... So it's strange to me.

> The Jinx-Holt thing was also very odd, Holt said 'oh you secondary' and she just... casually admits to it? Really, I don't understand. I think it's because she's a mafia noble lover (with Holt being Psy TSC then?), while James is the mafia lover or sth? This theory is a good fit for the current situation, since you need very few axioms for it to be true.

> Similarly, two sane spies that somehow have overlapping actions (I cannot stress enough how statistically exotic it is that two separate players would target the same people with the same role with roughly the same reasoning even). That relates to GB as well, who still has not claimed anything despite two spies giving him a hard time

The problem with this whole scenario is simple: they cannot ALL be non-town. Or, alternatively, they are separate factions, but it can't be sth like Mentor or we'd have noticed already.

So my best guess is that Jinx-Holt-James is the lover core (with Jinx potentially pretending to be TSC to avoid being lynched, as she's sitting on the strongest role out of 3 probably). And then Jinx is mafia with.... Bran/GB/DD/You (2 out of these)? Maybe someone is SS that is causing Nat and DD to be duds? The thing is, SS should have been noticed by now I think, and if Nat was targeted first by SS, DD would have popped her. Maybe Nat is being steered by mafia? But there are so many more suspicious players and situations, esp. the lover core, that I'm reluctant to even consider the possibility she's playing and winning 5D chess against us
 

digitaldude

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Could jinx be the traitor she always places a noble vote on a random person, maybe thats her team mates?
 

Copy Panda

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Its possible but if she'd be recruited she'd instantly be outed? Maybe one day she could get away with 'I forgot' but if we make her vote and she can't, we'd know she compromised
 

Copy Panda

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Anon votes were placed on Sam, you and Brandi in that order soo...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Ah you saw already lmao
 

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OK ragazzi, let's get to the bottom of this (blocked) claim situation.

Scenario 1 - one or more is a liar.

-Nat, only detective, no counter claim, however two spy counter claim. perhaps a duble det setup possible. Nat never produced any results that are of worth to not confirm/incriminate anyone. Easy to say thar she was just lying about it from the start.
-digitaldude, mortician claim that got pirate and this action didn't succeed. Could be lying from the start as he also never produced any result. With the blocked pirate claim he lying about the target and he actually maybe stole the role of the me.
-GB, only said it because two spy claimed he didn't do anything. before he didn't even say anything of worth to conclude a role, so super easy to fabricate a fake block.

Scenario 2 - we have a Escort in Mafia, hidden Prostitute and an unclaimed gift

If I try to make sense of it the Town would have blocked the sus GB. The other two claimed investigative roles, they would have never been blocked by town. That means, that the Escort and the unclaimed gift are either from same team or gift went to the town lover and they could coordinate to block the other investigator. This would implicate the Panda somewhat, because Kat incriminated him to receive a gift but not talk about it. The other gift went to James, so that would be same team as the Escort. We don't know if it is temp secondary role gift or not, but according to holt that cannot be the case. Still I would say for the Holt the investigation target it a good Panda. @Holt


@Copy Panda "only townie" -
Any comment on what Kat said about you? The evil and the Shad ask for the statement. 🎤
 

Copy Panda

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Why are you so concerned with the words of a non-town? Especially in her death throws? You understand that her enemy is town, not mafia, right? Since she only has to survive rather than eliminate mafia? Her singular goal is to instigate mislynches, avoid blockers and survive as long as needed.

For the record, I have received no gifts, though I will say that since Daws' Christmas game, I think Santa can now distribute gifts that aren't primaries (stuff like "gift of blocked target" or "gift of always guilty"). So maybe she wasn't lying that she targeted me, though I honestly doubt that as well, as I noticed nothing
 

Evil3ye

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For scenario 1 the GB can easily be the mafia, for 2 if he is indeed now aware of Town Prostitute he's now afraid when he says the results, someone will jump him. He already played save with the night 3 result reveal after the two spies said that. lol

But I think we need to maybe consider kill the James or the Jinx today, a red or a blue, unless you guys want to make a little bit of a risk and lych the GB -> hopefully get two in one, a red-blue.

My case is not super solid, but in my headcannon it makes sense.


The pros of James lynch:
- certain mafia
- other mafia will be 1 to 1 in with the lover-mafia, they will have hard time decide target
- bigger non killing TP, so maybe our Prostitute has higher chance to save from kill

The pros of the Jinx:

- certain TP
- her double vote cannot screw the town that obvious, when we are a little undecided
- she has less time to be full member and align even at night

The pros of the GB
- certain mafia
- probably better role than james, unless he is the mafia psychiatrist now
- could also be a lover, so cash in double

What you think?
 

Evil3ye

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what do you mean our prostitute?
The GB claims to be blocked 🤷‍♂️ is the scenario 2 setup.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Va bene, suggested order by Evil:

D4 lynch the GB
-> even if he is not the mafia lover, we have by D5 following: 5 town, 3 lover, 1 mafia

D5 lynch the Jinx
-> by D6 we have following: 4 town, 2 lover, 1 mafia

D6 lynch the James
-> by D7 we have following: 3 town, 2 lover (here is crucial that the jinx is dead by then)

D7 should be town win.

This could only backfire, if the GB is a townie, but what are the odds. 🤡

--- Double Post Merged, ---

Opinions please

@digitaldude 🎤

@Copy Panda 🎤

@Shad 🎤

@SirSamuel016 🎤

@Holt 🎤

--- Double Post Merged, ---

@Brandish μ 🎤

@MadNat 🎤

--- Double Post Merged, ---

Va bene, suggested order by Evil:

D4 lynch the GB
-> even if he is not the mafia lover, we have by D5 following: 5 town, 3 lover, 1 mafia

D5 lynch the Jinx
-> by D6 we have following: 4 town, 2 lover, 1 mafia

D6 lynch the James
-> by D7 we have following: 3 town, 2 lover (here is crucial that the jinx is dead by then)

D7 should be town win.

This could only backfire, if the GB is a townie, but what are the odds. 🤡
I found a mistake. in this order we will have a vote parity with the non towns. I take everything back. Today it must be the Jinx.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

@digitaldude if you are really the town, don't die on a recruit, or the citta is doomed.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

OMG THE JINX WILL GIVE HER VOTE ROLE TO THE TOWN LOVE OMG
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Are we already the doomed??
--- Double Post Merged, ---

OHHH NOT IF WE GUESS HER OBVIOUS FOOL! HAHA TAKE THAT THE JINX HAHAHA
--- Double Post Merged, ---

And what the fuck this set up, we had 1 mislynch and 1 townie suicide and we on the brink of city destruction. These third party games are the nuts!
 

SirSamuel016

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The GB claims to be blocked 🤷‍♂️ is the scenario 2 setup.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Va bene, suggested order by Evil:

D4 lynch the GB
-> even if he is not the mafia lover, we have by D5 following: 5 town, 3 lover, 1 mafia

D5 lynch the Jinx
-> by D6 we have following: 4 town, 2 lover, 1 mafia

D6 lynch the James
-> by D7 we have following: 3 town, 2 lover (here is crucial that the jinx is dead by then)

D7 should be town win.

This could only backfire, if the GB is a townie, but what are the odds. 🤡

--- Double Post Merged, ---

Opinions please

@digitaldude 🎤

@Copy Panda 🎤

@Shad 🎤

@SirSamuel016 🎤

@Holt 🎤

--- Double Post Merged, ---

@Brandish μ 🎤

@MadNat 🎤

--- Double Post Merged, ---



I found a mistake. in this order we will have a vote parity with the non towns. I take everything back. Today it must be the Jinx.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

@digitaldude if you are really the town, don't die on a recruit, or the citta is doomed.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

OMG THE JINX WILL GIVE HER VOTE ROLE TO THE TOWN LOVE OMG
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Are we already the doomed??
--- Double Post Merged, ---

OHHH NOT IF WE GUESS HER OBVIOUS FOOL! HAHA TAKE THAT THE JINX HAHAHA
Jinx as TSC counts as Town until she's found her lovers right? She never did say she found them iirc, but I could be wrong 🤔

GB could be Mafia Lover, but any of him, James, Panda, Jinx are a good lynch currently imo.
 

Evil3ye

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Jinx as TSC counts as Town until she's found her lovers right? She never did say she found them iirc, but I could be wrong 🤔

GB could be Mafia Lover, but any of him, James, Panda, Jinx are a good lynch currently imo.

She is not a Town, she cannot win with Town. And not lynch her now will mean we risk a coinflip loss if the anti-towns stack their roles on a town, then RIP. Is that want you want sus Sam, hmmmmm????

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And doomsday vote parity is already tomorrow if the Jinx lives. She must be put on stack D4.
 

SirSamuel016

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She is not a Town, she cannot win with Town. And not lynch her now will mean we risk a coinflip loss if the anti-towns stack their roles on a town, then RIP. Is that want you want sus Sam, hmmmmm????
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And doomsday vote parity is already tomorrow if the Jinx lives. She must be put on stack D4.
It definitely isn't. I don't like letting GB squirm free given how he's been all game but if Jinx has to be the lynch to save town then Jinx has to be the lynch.
 

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It definitely isn't. I don't like letting GB squirm free given how he's been all game but if Jinx has to be the lynch to save town then Jinx has to be the lynch.
Keep in mind that if you choose to keep investigating him he can probably be the Mafia Psychiatrist now, given if Baka cooperated. So if his target is alive, means nothing.
 

Brandish μ

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There's too much juice on digitaldude (Pirate, then block). The easy way to think of it is both those actions are to protect mafia Sam from being condemned, as mafia did not factor in Mortician during their risky approach with Kat. The cunning alternative is that mafia is framing town Sam with mafia digitaldude at the helm.

I find it extremely unlikely both Sam and digital are town. One is town, the other mafia. I'm somewhat stuck in the mud about which is town. But considering the numbers, if one is mafia, how many of James/GB/Cres etc can be mafia?
 

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There's too much juice on digitaldude (Pirate, then block). The easy way to think of it is both those actions are to protect mafia Sam from being condemned, as mafia did not factor in Mortician during their risky approach with Kat. The cunning alternative is that mafia is framing town Sam with mafia digitaldude at the helm.

I find it extremely unlikely both Sam and digital are town. One is town, the other mafia. I'm somewhat stuck in the mud about which is town. But considering the numbers, if one is mafia, how many of James/GB/Cres etc can be mafia?
Lucky for you you are the Spy and can follow one of the on N4.

The Mafia are now 3, with one also being a lover. then we have Jinx and a townie lover. GB and James being both mafia leaves one mafia out of the three lynch candidates, so it can very well be between digital and Sam.

What we do not know is who is the Lover from town, and who is the lover from Mafia. James cannot be lover according to Holt.
 

Evil3ye

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Have you made your claims? Or should I lock you??

Did you look at the numbers, you foolish penguine. I will not claim today, it is irrelevant if I claim. The Jinx must go if the Town want a chance at winning.
 
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