Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

He went from being weaker than Blueno to beating Kaku in the space of a few hours. That’s like what a ten-fold strength increase. He’s not far off.

He is, by alot actually. Because Luffy went from being weaker to CP9 agents to soloing Lucci who was many times stronger than Kaku

 

[LadyVados]

many times stronger than Kaku

That’s a straight-up lie.

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[Pirate Queen]

That’s a straight-up lie.

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Lucci is much stronger that Kaku. Are you joking?

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And Zoro is close to Yamato level and she would put up a good fight against an Admiral. Not wi. However

 

[LadyVados]

Lucci is much stronger that Kaku. Are you joking?

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And Zoro is close to Yamato level and she would put up a good fight against an Admiral. Not wi. However

Not several times tho.

Besides I’m pretty sure you have Water 7 Luffy well above Water 7 Zoro too so Lucci and Kaku’s relative power levels does not say anything about Luffy and Zoro’s relative growth rates.

Exactly Zoro would put up a good fight against an admiral which means he’s close enough to one to beat them with a mid-fight powerup.

He’ll get bashed up for a few chapters then put on his bandanna and have a Mihawk flashback then power up and beat Kizaru.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Not several times tho.

Besides I’m pretty sure you have Water 7 Luffy well above Water 7 Zoro too so Lucci and Kaku’s relative power levels does not say anything about Luffy and Zoro’s relative growth rates.

Exactly Zoro would put up a good fight against an admiral which means he’s close enough to one to beat them with a mid-fight powerup.

He’ll get bashed up for a few chapters then put on his bandanna and have a Mihawk flashback then power up and beat Kizaru.

Putting up a good fight doesn't mean beat. Zoro loses 10/10 times against an Admiral currently

 

[LadyVados]

Putting up a good fight doesn't mean beat. Zoro loses 10/10 times against an Admiral currently

Based on his current power level yes but he grows during fights and breaks his limits like any shonen hero character.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro is stronger than Rooftop Luffy and Kizaru is weaker than Kaido.

No he isn't.

Why would you think Zoro is anywhere near Luffy's level now?

Luffy was at commander-level at the beggining of Wano, and got one-shot by Kaido. Then Luffy went to fight Kaido one-on-one, while Zoro is now at commander-level.

Which is to say, currently there's an abyss between Luffy and Zoro.

Eh Buggy vs Nami is interesting too since Buggy’s buggy balls could beat G2+ level opponents.

Buggy is still an East Blue level pirate

He went from being weaker than Blueno to beating Kaku in the space of a few hours. That’s like what a ten-fold strength increase. He’s not far off.

First, why is that a 10x increase? We are given their numerical powerlevels, Kaku has 2-3 times Blueno's Douriki.

And why couldn't Zoro defeat Blueno before? Blueno was already having trouble blocking Sanji's kicks with his Tekkai back in the train.

Lastly, Blueno has a tricky Devil Fruit, which cannot be measured numerically. In practice, Blueno was close to Kaku's level because of his hax ability.

 

[LadyVados]

Luffy was at commander-level at the beggining of Wano, and got one-shot by Kaido. Then Luffy went to fight Kaido one-on-one, while Zoro is now at commander-level.

Oh sorry I forgot

 

[Fox666]

Yonko commanders are a handful in the world

 

[LadyVados]

Yonko commanders are a handful in the world

So you think Post-Onigashima Luffy was sub-Yonko commander level ? Since Kaido clearly did not consider him one of the handful of the very strongest.

 

[Fox666]

So you think Post-Onigashima Luffy was sub-Yonko commander level ? Since Kaido clearly did not consider him one of the handful of the very strongest.

I don't understand your point.

Luffy only discovered how to use Haki infusion when he was already on Yonko level.

Zoro managed to use it at commander-level. Although it was partially due to Enma's power.

 

[LadyVados]

I don't understand your point.

Luffy only discovered how to use Haki infusion when he was already on Yonko level.

Zoro managed to use it at commander-level. Although it was partially due to Enma's power.

Except Kaido literally said that only the strongest people can use AdCoC.

Also 1010 Luffy being Yonko level is wank.

 

[Fox666]

Except Kaido literally said that only the strongest people can use AdCoC.

Also 1010 Luffy being Yonko level is wank.

How many people stronger than King are there in the world? 30? I think that classifies as one of the "strongest"

Kaido himself compared Luffy to Shanks, Rocks, etc.

 

[LadyVados]

How many people stronger than King are there in the world? 30? I think that classifies as one of the "strongest"

Kaido himself compared Luffy to Shanks, Rocks, etc.

He then said Luffy wasn’t one of the handful of the very strongest !

 

[john ellis]

an admiral could lose to zoro quite regularly maybe 3-4/10 times depeds how much Zoro gets out of the fight Zoro is easily YC1+ I'd put him in the same level of beckman "probably" could be yonko under different circumstances. EOS Zoro is atleast yonko level, and were in the final saga so it's certainly possible 4 zoro beating yonko level opponents going forward.

 

[Pirate Queen]

an admiral could lose to zoro quite regularly maybe 3-4/10 times depeds how much Zoro gets out of the fight Zoro is easily YC1+ I'd put him in the same level of beckman "probably" could be yonko under different circumstances. EOS Zoro is atleast yonko level, and were in the final saga so it's certainly possible 4 zoro beating yonko level opponents going forward.

This is cap

 

[kkck]

Hmmm, I don't think zoro can necessarilly aspire to a high win rate against an admiral as he is (with 4 out of 10 being quite high all things considered). Zoro can indeed fight at the yonko level... for a time. But he has several limitations.

1.- Zoro's peak is something which as of his last fight lasts a fairly short time. He doesn't have the haki to sustain his maximum haki output yet. For yonko in turn this output is something they do casually. This also ties into his conqueror haki cladding which emma seemingly facilitated.

2.- Observation haki. There's at least two instances during the marineford saga which evidences admirals are capable of katakuri like dodging. We saw kuzan avoiding an attack from WB and we saw sakasuki precisely dodging attacks from marco and vista. While we have no confirmation, it's a fact that issho fights solely by perceiving his surroundings with haki. He is an exceptionally strong candidate for also having foresight. "hawkeyes", zoro's ultimate goal and almost definitely an honest to god yonko level fighter probably is a solid candidate for this skill as well.

Zoro is probably more of a threat to admirals than kaido's calamities all things considered but at the admiral tier you probably can't afford to have the admirals edge you out on advanced haki skills. And back at marineford we saw all 3 admirals use haki projection (which zoro has) and at least two probably use foresight. Zoro probably needs foresight (unless he learns whatever shenanigan shanks has to counter foresight) and needs more consistency with armor haki and cladding with which he is probably still on the rookie side of the curve.

 

[LadyVados]

Hmmm, I don't think zoro can necessarilly aspire to a high win rate against an admiral as he is (with 4 out of 10 being quite high all things considered). Zoro can indeed fight at the yonko level... for a time. But he has several limitations.

1.- Zoro's peak is something which as of his last fight lasts a fairly short time. He doesn't have the haki to sustain his maximum haki output yet. For yonko in turn this output is something they do casually. This also ties into his conqueror haki cladding which emma seemingly facilitated.

2.- Observation haki. There's at least two instances during the marineford saga which evidences admirals are capable of katakuri like dodging. We saw kuzan avoiding an attack from WB and we saw sakasuki precisely dodging attacks from marco and vista. While we have no confirmation, it's a fact that issho fights solely by perceiving his surroundings with haki. He is an exceptionally strong candidate for also having foresight. "hawkeyes", zoro's ultimate goal and almost definitely an honest to god yonko level fighter probably is a solid candidate for this skill as well.

Zoro is probably more of a threat to admirals than kaido's calamities all things considered but at the admiral tier you probably can't afford to have the admirals edge you out on advanced haki skills. And back at marineford we saw all 3 admirals use haki projection (which zoro has) and at least two probably use foresight. Zoro probably needs foresight (unless he learns whatever shenanigan shanks has to counter foresight) and needs more consistency with armor haki and cladding with which he is probably still on the rookie side of the curve.

We saw Luffy learn foresight mid-fight. I think Zoro could do the same if he were to ever fight an opponent with FS. He copied Kinemon’s Firefox style by just seeing him use it, learnt Haki on the fly mid-fight, figured out a way to counter Ohm, figured out King’s weakness. He’s a battle genius like Luffy or Goku and has broken his limits to win against superior opponents before.

 

[grey matter]

Based on his current power level yes but he grows during fights and breaks his limits like any shonen hero character.

Honestly Oda can do this if he chooses to lol. He can have Zoro fight Kizaru

Zoro certainly wouldn't need anywhere near the jumps Luffy made against Kaido.

Zoro is really just one powerup away from becoming a solid Yonko/admiral level character.
Current Zoro is already that tier for the few minutes he can sustain KoH mode.

 

[Pirate Queen]

We saw Luffy learn foresight mid-fight. I think Zoro could do the same if he were to ever fight an opponent with FS. He copied Kinemon’s Firefox style by just seeing him use it, learnt Haki on the fly mid-fight, figured out a way to counter Ohm, figured out King’s weakness. He’s a battle genius like Luffy or Goku and has broken his limits to win against superior opponents before.

Without Enma, Zoro's haki would not be were it currently is. That is a fact. While he worked very hard to master Enma and should be praised for it, if he was a battle genius like you claim he wouldn't have needed a "training tool" to help him unlock ACoC.

Zoro would have unlocked it eventually but it was a huge shortcut for him.

Without Enma I doubt he would have defeated King