Tower of God Chapter 563 Spoilers & Discussion

[Big-Bird]

https://void-scans.com/tower-of-god-chapter-563

@Demonspeed veuillez épingler

 

[Demonspeed]

Canon : Z princess receive Z's power.
Since when Z's power is limited to physical ability ?
Not to mention that this assumption is retarded.

Can you remind me where the specifics of Blood Fusion have been stated? Data Zahard himself said that the Princesses get 10000 times the physical abilities of an average Human thanks to his blood. AFAIR, it has never been stated that it increases all their other abilities. Not to mention that Zahard himself is a Fisherman and he is mostly known for his insane physical abilities. It's not like the Princesses get blond hair or Golden Shinsoo when they get his blood.

AFAIR, Blood Fusion allows the Houndborns to develop new special abilities.

 

[Turtle hunter]

In regards to zahard's power which the princesses get, the manga has only been specific in regards to them getting bodies thousands of times stronger than normal people. IIRC it's never said anything regarding shinsoo control. I don't think it's impossible they get other stats boosted but at the moment there's no further evidence to go on. It'd be interesting if this came with zahard's own shinsoo attributes (the golden needle or perhaps the gold element and a needle) but zero evidence of that so far. That said, even if there's nothing more this is still a rather overwhelming boost to begin with.

The reason they body is spoken so much about , is because it is the most flashy thing and most people would die under one punch from them and wouldn't have the chance to see they shinsoo skill .

Think about it , most people thought and speak about Yuri body , but her shinsoo affinity skill are far scarier than her physical prowess .


I mean you do realize that when princess fight they use SHINSOO reinforcement which use shinsoo right ?

Also why would Zahard blood only affect the body ?

All GF family children get a overall boost in all they domain , but zahard would just ignore they other attribute and only boost they body ? Even Yeon family who are not direct children of a irregular still got overall boost .

At high level what matter the most isn't even you body , it is how you use you shinsoo or attribute , if zahard princess got only a boost in strength wouldn't that leave they shinsoo capacity ? Why was Yuri rose shower able to instantly destroy Karaka while her body couldn't even touch him after that one punch ? Why is Maschenny spear skill are what is spoken about .

If you what you guys said was true , then princess would be facing Baam situation but with they body having superior prowess and they shinsoo being barely able to keep up in fire power .

But it isn't the case princess at high level are now for they skill and shinsoo ability , Maschenny for her spearmanship , hagipherione for her swordmanship , yuri strongest attack is rose shower .

 

[hblock]

Can you remind me where the specifics of Blood Fusion have been stated? Data Zahard himself said that the Princesses get 10000 times the physical abilities of an average Human thanks to his blood

Not physical ability, just durability, does it mean that his blood only enhances their durability (not their speed nor their muscle strength) ? Context. He made the statement after witnessing Mas' pushing her insane durability to the limits.

AFAIR, it has never been stated that it increases all their other abilities

The princesses inherit Z "power" not just "physical power". This much is canon.
And as I said earlier, thinking the opposite defies common sens, this alone is an argument on its own.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

From what we know it's basically an infusion of his DNA. As such they should get any boost they'd get from being his actual kid, same as any other GF DD.

It just doesn't affect their innate abilities and appearances because those are already formed prior to infusion.

In any event it hasn't been officially ruled in or out, but logically it should boost all around to include going further than just body hardening.

 

[hblock]

Not to mention that Zahard himself is a Fisherman and he is mostly known for his insane physical abilities

And his insane shinsu control/potency.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It's not like the Princesses get blond hair or Golden Shinsoo when they get his blood.

I'm counting on something like this with Adoru, if she's not a clone or something.

Maybe she got a double dose.

Maybe she's a prince daughter (like the Captain, a Z clone).

 

[Vali x lucifer]

I am in the camp of Zahard power making princesses stronger overall, like would Gustang of all people come up with a process to turn girls into just tanks with lacking shinsu abilities once pushed to the limit ? Besides, your body strenght and durability should influence how much shinsu you are able to handle

 

[Turtle hunter]

Can you remind me where the specifics of Blood Fusion have been stated? Data Zahard himself said that the Princesses get 10000 times the physical abilities of an average Human thanks to his blood. AFAIR, it has never been stated that it increases all their other abilities. Not to mention that Zahard himself is a Fisherman and he is mostly known for his insane physical abilities. It's not like the Princesses get blond hair or Golden Shinsoo when they get his blood.

AFAIR, Blood Fusion allows the Houndborns to develop new special abilities.

Didn't you read Baam vs Zahard ? or Yuri vs Karaka .

They most potent attack were either powerful weapon or shinsoo skill .

You argument is basically most people saw Zahard with his body , hence Zahard most definite traits is his body .

Zahard vs baam disprove you point .

Enryuu is a spearman does it mean he isn't a beast as a fisherman or any other position ?

Both princess have impressive shinsoo ability who can keep up with they body and also got huge shinsoo reservoir .

for example data Maschenny reservoir , ability to manipulate shinsoo are terrific .

In the end everything come down to shinsoo , the reason why zahard is so strong is not because of his body but because he is gifted by shinsoo , princess don't escape that rule .

If they didn't get a boost in shinsoo ability , they power would be inherently flawed and limited , because you body strength can only take you so far .

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2023 ---

And his insane shinsu control/potency.

Data Zahard shinsoo abilty were more impressive that his physical ability .

He literally shinsoo attack " cosmos " capable of rivaling ranker or advanced ranker power .

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I am in the camp of Zahard power making princesses stronger overall, like would Gustang of all people come up with a process to turn girls into just tanks with lacking shinsu abilities once pushed to the limit ? Besides, your body strenght and durability should influence how much shinsu you are able to handle

This is a good point. Even IF it's only a physical boost (unconfirmed), then that physical boost should create a deep enough well for them to develop a massive shinsoo reserve compatible or commensurate to the stronger body.

 

[Turtle hunter]

This is a good point. Even IF it's only a physical boost (unconfirmed), then that physical boost should create a deep enough well for them to develop a massive shinsoo reserve compatible or commensurate to the stronger body.

I think it is just a cope to deny the shinsoo advantage that GF children posses .

 

[kkck]

The reason they body is spoken so much about , is because it is the most flashy thing and most people would die under one punch from them and wouldn't have the chance to see they shinsoo skill .

Think about it , most people thought and speak about Yuri body , but her shinsoo affinity skill are far scarier than her physical prowess .


I mean you do realize that when princess fight they use SHINSOO reinforcement which use shinsoo right ?

Also why would Zahard blood only affect the body ?

All GF family children get a overall boost in all they domain , but zahard would just ignore they other attribute and only boost they body ? Even Yeon family who are not direct children of a irregular still got overall boost .

At high level what matter the most isn't even you body , it is how you use you shinsoo or attribute , if zahard princess got only a boost in strength wouldn't that leave they shinsoo capacity ? Why was Yuri rose shower able to instantly destroy Karaka while her body couldn't even touch him after that one punch ? Why is Maschenny spear skill are what is spoken about .

If you what you guys said was true , then princess would be facing Baam situation but with they body having superior prowess and they shinsoo being barely able to keep up in fire power .

But it isn't the case princess at high level are now for they skill and shinsoo ability , Maschenny for her spearmanship , hagipherione for her swordmanship , yuri strongest attack is rose shower .

Welp, and also because pretty early in the story we were specifically told zahard's power increased their physical prowess thousands of times. As I said, I don't rule out it doing more but at the moment there's not that much evidence of that.

Yuri's shinsoo affinities are unclear as of now. Given her pedigree odds are she has multiple of them going on at a given time. Imagine the absurdity of a prime ha princess not having the shinsoo attributes the ha family are known for. It's obviously not as showy but it's extremely likely that in the end yuri's primary asset in battle is her reinforcement.

Karaka's reaction to taking a punch from yuri was more or less "holy crap I am going to die". I am not sure of what you mean by yuri not being able to touch karaka. Karaka literally inflicted zero damage through that fight. Not figuratively, literally zero damage. Yuri's health bar at the start of that battle was the same at the end of the battle.

As for the bold part.... no? An exceptionally strong physical body is something which the story so far has framed as one of the choice things to have for fights. For context, take kallavan's first fight with white at the wall of coexistence. White at this point was at least stronger than conventional rankers, probably in the low end of high rankers (and not even that low). And even then kallavan simply took his attacks without using any shinsoo reinforcement whatsover. As in, kallavan's unreinforced bare body is so absurdly powerful it can eat attacks from high rankers. Another instance to consider: Kallavan vs jinsung. Jinsung prepares his ultimate floral butterfly (one of the strongest forms of shinsoo control and reverse flow control in the story so far), kallavan eats it (presumably he was using his own reinforcement here though) and he still walks it off simply because he is that tough (and in fairness because killing high rankers is tricky at this point).

Of course, reinforcement is important here but how this works is that your innate physical strength stacks with your reinforcement. It's not the case that reinforcement > physical strength, that's plain nonsense. if anything, the series has consistently shown that those with exceptionally strong bodies are difficult to deal with for wave control types of all people.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2023 ---

This is a good point. Even IF it's only a physical boost (unconfirmed), then that physical boost should create a deep enough well for them to develop a massive shinsoo reserve compatible or commensurate to the stronger body.

The series has never made the point that you need a strong body to hold or control shinsoo. Start of season 2 bam could hold control 4-5 bangs and use pretty strong reinforcement, putting him ahead of almost every regular at the time, and his body was still pretty much as durable as wet paper (by tower standards). Shinsoo is not stored in the body for fights. Heck, the only fighter in the story so far to store shinsoo anywhere is bam via the loops and even then he doesn't store it in his body.

 

[Demonspeed]

Not physical ability, just durability, does it mean that his blood only enhances their durability (not their speed nor their muscle strength) ? Context. He made the statement after witnessing Mas' pushing her insane durability to the limits.


The princesses inherit Z "power" not just "physical power". This much is canon.
And as I said earlier, thinking the opposite defies common sens, this alone is an argument on its own.

I love the world building and random bits of information we got through SIU's blog posts. If you are used to read battle shonen of course you'd think that Zahard Blood boost most of their stats.

I did as well and I have always wanted to know the specifics. But Data Zahard gave a very specific number against Maschenny and didn't only talk about durability. He said that their bodies are stronger.

Plus we have more evidence that it boosts their physical stats overall in the story with Baam saying that it's hard to keep up running with Androssi when he isn't using Shinsoo when they were running away from Karaka for example. It's the only other example I have in mind right now but I am sure I can find more if I reread.

When I get precise information like that I stick to the facts. Surely you don't believe that it gives them 10000 times the Shinsoo Control, Resistance, weapon mastery of an average person, in addition to Golden Needle Shinsoo as well? Or that it allows them to reach Irregular tier?

Because it would be beyond ridiculous especially since he doesn't pick average joes to begin with. So, unless we learn more, with what we have heard, I have no reason to believe that it boosts everything else. Especially when we know what is Zahard's main trait. If we are following our headcanons in discussions we won't go anywhere.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Welp, and also because pretty early in the story we were specifically told zahard's power increased their physical prowess thousands of times. As I said, I don't rule out it doing more but at the moment there's not that much evidence of that.

Yuri's shinsoo affinities are unclear as of now. Given her pedigree odds are she has multiple of them going on at a given time. Imagine the absurdity of a prime ha princess not having the shinsoo attributes the ha family are known for. It's obviously not as showy but it's extremely likely that in the end yuri's primary asset in battle is her reinforcement.

Karaka's reaction to taking a punch from yuri was more or less "holy crap I am going to die". I am not sure of what you mean by yuri not being able to touch karaka. Karaka literally inflicted zero damage through that fight. Not figuratively, literally zero damage. Yuri's health bar at the start of that battle was the same at the end of the battle.

As for the bold part.... no? An exceptionally strong physical body is something which the story so far has framed as one of the choice things to have for fights. For context, take kallavan's first fight with white at the wall of coexistence. White at this point was at least stronger than conventional rankers, probably in the low end of high rankers (and not even that low). And even then kallavan simply took his attacks without using any shinsoo reinforcement whatsover. As in, kallavan's unreinforced bare body is so absurdly powerful it can eat attacks from high rankers. Another instance to consider: Kallavan vs jinsung. Jinsung prepares his ultimate floral butterfly (one of the strongest forms of shinsoo control and reverse flow control in the story so far), kallavan eats it (presumably he was using his own reinforcement here though) and he still walks it off simply because he is that tough (and in fairness because killing high rankers is tricky at this point).

Of course, reinforcement is important here but how this works is that your innate physical strength stacks with your reinforcement. It's not the case that reinforcement > physical strength, that's plain nonsense. if anything, the series has consistently shown that those with exceptionally strong bodies are difficult to deal with for wave control types of all people.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2023 ---

The series has never made the point that you need a strong body to hold or control shinsoo. Start of season 2 bam could hold control 4-5 bangs and use pretty strong reinforcement, putting him ahead of almost every regular at the time, and his body was still pretty much as durable as wet paper (by tower standards). Shinsoo is not stored in the body for fights. Heck, the only fighter in the story so far to store shinsoo anywhere is bam via the loops and even then he doesn't store it in his body.

Shinsoo, whether exogenous or endogenous, has to be controlled through a medium that is the physical body.

While 5 or so baangs might be a big deal for a wet paper towel body, it's reasonable to expect that's his limit. Further, that even if he had the willpower to control more, that, say, 9000 baangs would have very well been too much for his frail body to handle.

It's also notable that shinsoo strength seems to grow same as body strength, and the two are certainly related by virtue of being submerged in increasingly dense shinsoo and training/simply breathing in it.

Does that have to be a 1:1 growth rate? Of course not, but neither *probably* quickly outpaces the other until the lesser is more developed.

Baam as a measure for anything isn't a good source though. So much does and doesn't apply to him that would or wouldn't others bc irregular.

 

[kkck]

Shinsoo, whether exogenous or endogenous, has to be controlled through a medium that is the physical body.

While 5 or so baangs might be a big deal for a wet paper towel body, it's reasonable to expect that's his limit. Further, that even if he had the willpower to control more, that, say, 9000 baangs would have very well been too much for his frail body to handle.

It's also notable that shinsoo strength seems to grow same as body strength, and the two are certainly related by virtue of being submerged in increasingly dense shinsoo and training/simply breathing in it.

Does that have to be a 1:1 growth rate? Of course not, but neither *probably* quickly outpaces the other until the lesser is more developed.

Baam as a measure for anything isn't a good source though. So much does and doesn't apply to him that would or wouldn't others bc irregular.

I would argue what you are suggesting here is simply not consistent with what we have seen in the story or how SIU has framed combat in the story or how specks work in the story. Shinsoo control and physical strength are independent stats, throwing a point into one does not affect the other. During the hell train there was an instance where bam was said to be growing stronger too fast for his own good... and he resolved that via revolution which took 2 months total, not nearly enough to give him that big a boost to his physical strength. It's simply not the case that shinsoo control grows along physical strength. As far as the story has told it's entirely feasible to be garbage at one and a monster at the other.

 

[Vali x lucifer]

Shinsoo, whether exogenous or endogenous, has to be controlled through a medium that is the physical body.

While 5 or so baangs might be a big deal for a wet paper towel body, it's reasonable to expect that's his limit. Further, that even if he had the willpower to control more, that, say, 9000 baangs would have very well been too much for his frail body to handle.

It's also notable that shinsoo strength seems to grow same as body strength, and the two are certainly related by virtue of being submerged in increasingly dense shinsoo and training/simply breathing in it.

Does that have to be a 1:1 growth rate? Of course not, but neither *probably* quickly outpaces the other until the lesser is more developed.

Baam as a measure for anything isn't a good source though. So much does and doesn't apply to him that would or wouldn't others bc irregular.

@kkck
Baam has basically unlimited shinsu at his disposal, having a frail body was the bottleneck and still is to some extent. There's a reason why Evankhell ordered him to go without thorn or black march but instead focus on a hellish training, refining basic skills. In the 2 years of training his body improved a ton and his power spiked as well. Sure some Hansung advanced shinsu techniques training was involved too, but the core of the training that allowed Baam to grow so much was Evankhell pushing his body to the limit. Rankers bodies are insanely strong compared to Regulars and the shinsu they can handle is also on another league. There is no way physical training or body strenghtening doesn't make a person stronger both with and without shinsu. That's my read at least

 

[kkck]

@kkck
Baam has basically unlimited shinsu at his disposal, having a frail body was the bottleneck and still is to some extent. There's a reason why Evankhell ordered him to go without thorn or black march but instead focus on a hellish training, refining basic skills. In the 2 years of training his body improved a ton and his power spiked as well. Sure some Hansung advanced shinsu techniques training was involved too, but the core of the training that allowed Baam to grow so much was Evankhell pushing his body to the limit. Rankers bodies are insanely strong compared to Regulars and the shinsu they can handle is also on another league. There is no way physical training or body strenghtening doesn't make a person stronger both with and without shinsu. That's my read at least

But... when has the story at any point made the case that a frail body held back bam's shinsoo control? Bam's physical strength has definitely improved but that's simply because he has trained it and having a stronger body simply makes him a more effective combatant. And bam's shinsoo isn't exactly unlimited. In regards to conventional shinsoo combat, bam is as limited as anyone else. His maximum shinsoo is simply his maximum amount of bangs times the shinsoo each bang has. Where his blessing kicks in is that his shinsoo control isn't reduced when he controls more shinsoo so he can control 50 bangs as well as 1 bang. Which via YHS's training bam learns to abuse via the self sustaining loop that stores shinsoo and he can carry around indefinitely with no drawbacks.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I would argue what you are suggesting here is simply not consistent with what we have seen in the story or how SIU has framed combat in the story or how specks work in the story. Shinsoo control and physical strength are independent stats, throwing a point into one does not affect the other. During the hell train there was an instance where bam was said to be growing stronger too fast for his own good... and he resolved that via revolution which took 2 months total, not nearly enough to give him that big a boost to his physical strength. It's simply not the case that shinsoo control grows along physical strength. As far as the story has told it's entirely feasible to be garbage at one and a monster at the other.

Again though, using Baam as a metric to apply to what's typical in the tower doesn't work.

Regardless, we tend to see stronger characters with similarly stronger shinsoo attacks.

There doesn't seem to be any examples of one lagging behind to the point that basically all their points are in one stat only.

Logically, both should grow fairly linearly, and steadily.

There's also the shinsoo-rich environment connection.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2023 ---

But... when has the story at any point made the case that a frail body held back bam's shinsoo control? Bam's physical strength has definitely improved but that's simply because he has trained it and having a stronger body simply makes him a more effective combatant. And bam's shinsoo isn't exactly unlimited. In regards to conventional shinsoo combat, bam is as limited as anyone else. His maximum shinsoo is simply his maximum amount of bangs times the shinsoo each bang has. Where his blessing kicks in is that his shinsoo control isn't reduced when he controls more shinsoo so he can control 50 bangs as well as 1 bang. Which via YHS's training bam learns to abuse via the self sustaining loop that stores shinsoo and he can carry around indefinitely with no drawbacks.

Nah, @Vali x lucifer is right. Baam has had unlimited access by virtue of being an irregular. He just couldn't control it. Why not? If not the frail body then what? What exactly IS the bottleneck? Because we have known Baam as a glass cannon for a while.

As his body has hardened, his shinsoo punches have gotten stronger, no?

Is that coincidental?

 

[King Dryst]

As far as Zahard goes, I bet he'd still kill Baam if he found it necessary. Even if he was made a LPB. I think he's humoring Rei. And, yes, I think they might be playing the game against each other a bit. Nothing too antagonistic, at least on the surface.

He just knows or is strongly convinced that Traumerei is doomed to fail with this enterprise of his. What harm in letting him try? Zahard gets his dirty work done basically for free, with the highly unlikely potential to reap even greater success if Traumerei does pull this off somehow and neutralizes Baam as a menace to the Tower's peace. On the other hand, refusing to let him take his shot would have only sown acrimony between them.

In the end, Traumerei fights Zahard's war for him and the situation with Baam is no different than it would have been otherwise. As far as he believes. What could happen is that Baam somehow flips Traumerei and this becomes an enormous fail for Zahard.

 

[O_n_Sly]

There’s nothing to prove that the twins are even strong. If they were they would have taken care of Endorsi themselves but instead choose the weasel move and had her fight Kaiser! Who knows how many times they tricked their enemies into the NHS before!

 

[Vali x lucifer]

But... when has the story at any point made the case that a frail body held back bam's shinsoo control? Bam's physical strength has definitely improved but that's simply because he has trained it and having a stronger body simply makes him a more effective combatant. And bam's shinsoo isn't exactly unlimited. In regards to conventional shinsoo combat, bam is as limited as anyone else. His maximum shinsoo is simply his maximum amount of bangs times the shinsoo each bang has. Where his blessing kicks in is that his shinsoo control isn't reduced when he controls more shinsoo so he can control 50 bangs as well as 1 bang. Which via YHS's training bam learns to abuse via the self sustaining loop that stores shinsoo and he can carry around indefinitely with no drawbacks.

The point is, what actually happens in a situation where Baam can't create another bang because he reached his limit ? If he has no problem handling multiple bangs at once and administrators don't give him a limited quantity ?
Also we have 0 cases of Rankers being unable of acting as wave controllers, since we know Rankers can use every position. Everywhere we look there seem to be a correlation between physical strength and shinsu power, of varying degree obviously but a correlation nonetheless.