Theory Not a Villain!? Crocodile's Utopia!

[McNuss]

With the formation of Crossguild, Oda has again hinted, that Crocodile fights for some kind of Utopia.

Now what is this Utopia?

A hint lies within the construction of Baroque Works: Each rank is filled with gender parity in mind; there is a male and a female officer at each rank, leading to an alsmost perfect 50/50 man/women ratio in leadership.

Almost because the queer character Bentham can fill in both roles in regards to his special needs.

Now everyone is also familiar with the theory that Crocodile is a trans character himself.
Now what I want to add, there is a huge Batman/DC comics theme behind Croco's organizations, and the movies contemporary to One Piece's release and the planning phase of Crocodile are Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, by flambyoant homosexual director Joel Schumacher.

Have a look at this:

Crocodile: Question mark hook, scrapped idea: riddle master = The Riddler. Also Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction.
Nico Robin: Flower Girl. Mia Wallace from Pulp Fiction, played by Uma Thurman who also plays Poison Ivy. Her story also only really kicks of after she mets Mr. Freeze (Kuzan).
Mr 1: A man of Steel, wants to be a Superhero. Superman, of course.
Mr. 4: Babe Ruth, a real-world Baseball player. Who is also a DC comics character.
Miss Merry Christmas: Gets constantly called a Penguin, the villain from Tim Burton's Batman Returns. Burton is also famous for "A Nightmare before Christmas".
Mr. 5: Lenny Kravitz, who appears on the Soundtrack of Batman Forever.
Mrs Father's Day: Remove the frogs and you get Harley Quinn.
Mr. 9: Twin Bats, Acrobatics. Dick Grayson aka Robin.
Miss Wednesday: The peacock slashers are remiscent of the batclaws used by Batgirl in Batman & Robin.
Karoo: I think Karoo is Batman. I won't explain.

Buggy: Joker
Mihawk: Azrael

Bonus: Shanks: Two-Face
Nami: Catwoman
Zoro: Zoro means fox in spanish, Lucius Fox.

At the start of Batman & Robin, Alfred asks Batman: "Can you return this in One Piece?".

Now if you know Schumacher's movies, they have gay and or queer undertones throughout, and Batman Forever in particular has a very notable "coming out theme"...

Remember what revealed Crocodile's dream of becoming Pirate King? The rainbow color trap.

So yeah, I think "Sir" Crocodile is a trans man who fights for gender equality and LGBTQ rights!
That's his "Utopia", and it is not so bad at all.
He is also the first man who offered Nico Robin, a persecuted woman, genuine protection, and never questioned her one bit despite him claiming to trust no one, and despite him trusting no one else in the very same organization aside from a badger and a vulture. He could have tortured her into teaching him how to read poneglyphs any time, he never did. He bought her luxurious outfits and a nice crocodile car from his casino money, that's what he did.

Staging a rebellion against a monarchy also isn't that bad when you have the right ideals.
Kobra is the one who banished his daughter's lowborn boyfriend to a desert shithole. Crocodile is fighting for LOVE

 

[kkck]

Hmmm, I don't think it's likely that oda has a western perspective on this. Given that he is a japanese man from japan who likely has a japanese take on these issues. Add to that, ivankov has the capacity to change a person's sex so he wouldn't really be a trans man even if he started as a woman and ivankov applied his ability.

 

[McNuss]

ivankov has the capacity to change a person's sex so he wouldn't really be a trans man even

The fruit makes you a Hormone-controlling human. There is nothing in the series that suggests they work beyond the capacity of regular hormones, except that Ivankov can inject high doses for high speed results, or long story short Mr. Zero does not have a penis.

 

[Fox666]

The fruit makes you a Hormone-controlling human. There is nothing in the series that suggests they work beyond the capacity of regular hormones, except that Ivankov can inject high doses for high speed results, or long story short Mr. Zero does not have a penis.

I think the implication is that Ivankov can give people penises and vaginas.

 

[McNuss]

I think the implication is that Ivankov can give people penises and vaginas.

Yeah but this implication does not exist at all since it is nowhere mentioned and penises and vaginas are not to be shown in the series.
This probably just comes down to a lack of knowledge from the readership about how this really works.

It is impossible.

 

[kkck]

The fruit makes you a Hormone-controlling human. There is nothing in the series that suggests they work beyond the capacity of regular hormones, except that Ivankov can inject high doses for high speed results, or long story short Mr. Zero does not have a penis.

They don't work beyond regular hormones? How? It's pretty clear that by real life standards iva's hormones are practically magic over all the BS they do. As for whether a female turned male by iva has a penis, I'd say yes. And here is the receipt:

https://www.sailmanga.com/sites/default/files/manga/9/198480//20220515161954189.jpg

Here you see good old prince bellet saying "it's disappearing" or something to that effect very clearly making the point his penis is vanishing. And presumably turning into a vagina. I am going a tad further... the most likely scenario is that crocodile as a hypothetical former female could impregnate bellet a former male.

 

[McNuss]

Hmmm, I don't think it's likely that oda has a western perspective on this. Given that he is a japanese man from japan who likely has a japanese take on these issues.

Japan isn't isolated but deeply tied to the west, politically, economically and yes also culturally.
In fact, all of what we occupy ourselves here with, not just One Piece is showcasing that so heavily I am wondering you can come to such a conclusion?
Oda occupies himself with media from all around the world and is of legit taste - he understands them thoroughly.

Here you see good old prince bellet saying "it's disappearing" or something to that effect very clearly making the point his penis is vanishing. And presumably turning into a vagina. I am going a tad further... the most likely scenario is that crocodile as a hypothetical former female could impregnate bellet a former male.

Uff.

Taking estrogen as a male will make your penis and balls shrink. A miracle dose from Ivankov that gets you J-Cup tits in an instant would turn the penis into something as small as a thumb.

Why are we even debating this?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

So yeah, I think "Sir" Crocodile is a trans man who fights for gender equality and LGBTQ rights!

Make it a black women and lame.

 

[kkck]

Japan isn't isolated but deeply tied to the west, politically, economically and yes also culturally.
In fact, all of what we occupy ourselves here with, not just One Piece is showcasing that so heavily I am wondering you can come to such a conclusion?
Oda occupies himself with media from all around the world and is of legit taste - he understands them thoroughly.

Why would anyone think this? Sure, japan has ties to the west but it is still one of the most homogeneous and conservative societies on the planet. Politically and socially japan simply has its own shit going on which has nothing to do with western politics, let alone modern left wing views. Fuck, shinzo abe was a literal facist and his party has been in power for over half a century.

Uff.

Taking estrogen as a male will make your penis and balls shrink. A miracle dose from Ivankov that gets you J-Cup tits in an instant would turn the penis into something as small as a thumb.

Why are we even debating this?

It's not really a debate, it's pretty obvious bellet has a vagina as of that point. It's the really obvious implication of that point.

 

[McNuss]

Why would anyone think this? Sure, japan has ties to the west but it is still one of the most homogeneous and conservative societies on the planet. Politically and socially japan simply has its own shit going on which has nothing to do with western politics, let alone modern left wing views. Fuck, shinzo abe was a literal facist and his party has been in power for over half a century.

Japan has international cosmopolitan omegalul megacities you could fly to and have a chat with young people in english.

They wear british school uniforms and western clothes, their architecture is westernized, their music is westernized, they play western sports, the stories we read here right now are all a thoroughly westernized product, from the start - those are not traditional japanese stories.
Their political system is a western democracy and they share the values of the "western value union" such as free speech, free press, basic human rights etc as much as the other countries in that union, they are part of the G7 and western security aliances. The shows Oda grew up with like Vickie were financed with German tax money, and produced for the German market.

Conservative society, yes, also very old. This is a product for the youth we are reading.

It's not really a debate, it's pretty obvious bellet has a vagina as of that point. It's the really obvious implication of that point.

No. That's really not how it works. Just not at all, sorry. He hasn't. Though an Ivankov-enlarged clitoris would probably make for a better effigy than Bellet's micropenis.
And again, why are we even debating that? There is zero relevancy for this story wether Crocodile has a penis or not.

 

[Fox666]

Remember what revealed Crocodile's dream of becoming Pirate King? The rainbow color trap.

Quite sure that's just a way to represent Miss Goldenweek ability of using colors

I don't want to be rude, but it looks like are you kinda of obsessed with certain political topics, and it's kinda of ridiculous


There are zero evidence of Crocodile caring about gender equality, other than being equally willing to beat and kill men and women

Heck, there's zero evidence of Crocodile wanting anything positive for other people, he's willing to commit genocide to stay on power

 

[McNuss]

Quite sure that's just a way to represent Miss Goldenweek ability of using colors

I don't want to be rude, but it looks like are you kinda of obsessed with certain political topics, and it's kinda of ridiculous


There are zero evidence of Crocodile caring about gender equality, other than being equally willing to beat and kill men and women

Heck, there's zero evidence of Crocodile wanting anything positive for other people, he's willing to commit genocide to stay on power

Crocodile is an utopist. The Baroque works officers were the supposed ruling caste of his utopian country. And he made sure there is parity, while also keeping it inclusive for a queer character, just like he himself is hinted to be transgender.

The analysis about the movies and comic characters in question and how they are referenced in One Piece is also sound, and in far too great sum to be coincidental.

Also, I don't want to be rude here at all, but anyone who thinks the topic in question is not part of this story is entirely clueless. I don't need to recap how often it has been featured in this story, and certainly not after WCI and Wano arc.

What I seem to get more and more here is that a lot of people are overtly sensitive when it comes to certain topics. There is no room for sentimentalities in thorough analysis.

And this is not a topic that is occupying me much at all politically, Idk were you are taking that from.

 

[Fox666]

Crocodile is an utopist. The Baroque works officers were the supposed ruling caste of his utopian country. And he made sure there is parity, while also keeping it inclusive for a queer character, just like he himself is hinted to be transgender.

He's more than willing to kill his Baroque Agents...

And they are very much based on power, Mr. 2 just happens to be one of the strongest guys he could find who accepted to work for an unknown leader.

 

[kkck]

Lol, crocodile has less than zero regard for human life. He is an amoral utilitarian that would kill a baby without a second thought if it gets him power. We are talking about a guy whose actions at alabasta would have resulted in the pointless death of tens of thousands of people and then caused untold misery to the survivors.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Lol, crocodile has less than zero regard for human life. He is an amoral utilitarian that would kill a baby without a second thought if it gets him power. We are talking about a guy whose actions at alabasta would have resulted in the pointless death of tens of thousands of people and then caused untold misery to the survivors.

But he is nice to queers, so he is the good guy. Right?

 

[McNuss]

Lol, crocodile has less than zero regard for human life. He is an amoral utilitarian that would kill a baby without a second thought if it gets him power. We are talking about a guy whose actions at alabasta would have resulted in the pointless death of tens of thousands of people and then caused untold misery to the survivors.

In this story, alignment is defined by intention and not by morals. Vegapunk is a good guy because he has good intentions, and despite him conducting the most inhumane experiments and despite him developing atrocious WMD.

Don't get too stuck on terms, tough. You know fully well I want my posts to be engaging, and you should be able to put things into context based on that.

Most of the citizen had fled the capital. The bomb would have annihilated the symbol of the monarchy and all threats to inner security - the loyalist and rebel armies.

Yes, that's kinda utilitarian. It's also the fastest way to achieve lasting peace in the newfound country.

That is if the bomb even had enough power to begin with. End of the day it couldn't even kill a single bird. Crocodile has a soft heart in secret, that resurfaced time and time again in this story.

He's more than willing to kill his Baroque Agents...

And this hey are very much based on power, Mr. 2 just happens to be one of the strongest guys he could find who accepted to work for an unknown leader.

Actually he threw someone who is capable of encasing himself in bulletproof wax into a basin of crocodiles. The guy survived and is now working for Crocodile again, just saying.

I don't know if you are familiar with Mickey Mouse comics, but Crocodile in that aspect is kinda like Flatnose/the Black Phantom, who builds "Saw" (you know the movies) like machines to murder Mickey Mouse, yet always leaves the scene before the deed is done and Mickey can always escape because the apparitions have flaws due to Flatnose's soft heart. The Rain base scene was exactly that. Crocodile was beyond sloppy and never killed anyone on screen.

The latter paragraph has nothing to do with what I've said. Yeah they are based on power. The hierarchic seat based system is actually akin to a politbüro, further crediting Croco's utopist nature.

But he is nice to queers, so he is the good guy. Right?

He is not a villain. Call him an anti-hero if you want, which is also consistent with his role in Impel Down and Marineford.

 

[Fox666]

Actually he threw someone who is capable of encasing himself in bulletproof wax into a basin of crocodiles. The guy survived and is now working for Crocodile again, just saying.

I don't know if you are familiar with Mickey Mouse comics, but Crocodile in that aspect is kinda like Flatnose/the Black Phantom, who builds "Saw" (you know the movies) like machines to murder Mickey Mouse, yet always leaves the scene before the deed is done and Mickey can always escape because the apparitions have flaws due to Flatnose's soft heart. The Rain base scene was exactly that. Crocodile was beyond sloppy and never killed anyone on screen.

Except the thousands of people who died in Arabasta because of him...

And sure, Mr. 3 survived because Crocodile has a soft heart...

The latter paragraph has nothing to do with what I've said. Yeah they are based on power. The hierarchic seat based system is actually akin to a politbüro, further crediting Croco's utopist nature.

?

It's a meritocracy. In Baroque Works, if a lower agents kills the upper one, they get a promotion. Crocodile couldn't care less about Mr. 2 being an Okama.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

He is not a villain. Call him an anti-hero if you want, which is also consistent with his role in Impel Down and Marineford

He was literally the first villain in the grandline.

Its also not just Arabasta. Whiskey Peak had an entire mountain full of graves while being under control if Baroque works.

Also Arabasta was gonna have a queen with Vivi and the entire country loved their royal family before crocs intervention. He literally tried to overtake one of the best and "progressive" kingdoms we have seen so far in one piece.

But jeah. Anti hero.

 

[McNuss]

Except the thousands of people who died in Arabasta because of him...

And sure, Mr. 3 survived because Crocodile has a soft heart...

Yeah whatever. I never said he's a saint. He's the Illidan Stormrage of One Piece, down to transcending into something else for power.

I wonder how many people died through Pacifista, Calm-Belt trespassing Battleships or just what happened in Lulusia? Still no one would call VP a villain, right?

What Crocodile did is far less worse than what VP is doing. End of the day he just abused the problems of a very overpopulated desert island with an incompetent King, who failed to secure authority in his own country despite having a million soldiers or some under arms.

Yeah he could have just beheaded him, problem solved.
He could also have tortured Nico Robin into teaching him how to read Poneglyphs, instead he genuinely hid her from persecution and gifted her the One Piece counterpart of a Mercedes Benz.

He couldn't bear to watch the Marines execute Ace either, despite this playing into his hands of killing Whitebeard, a plan he quickly abandoned once he got into the actual situation.

He is also clearly building up a relationship with Mr. 1 despite him claiming to trust no one and despite his claims to not tolerate failure, he was eager to get his buddy out of prison and with him to the New World.

He was literally the first villain in the grandline.

Its also not just Arabasta. Whiskey Peak had an entire mountain full of graves while being under control if Baroque works.

Also Arabasta was gonna have a queen with Vivi and the entire country loved their royal family before crocs intervention. He literally tried to overtake one of the best and "progressive" kingdoms we have seen so far in one piece.

But jeah. Anti hero.

And stopped being a villain the next time we saw him. Unlike all the other guys, who are still 100% villains, including Buggy.

Arlong is still a villain, Enel is still a villain, CP9 are now CP0, Hody is still a villain, Doflamingo is still a villain, Big Mom is still a villain, Kaido is still a villain.

Crocodile isn't and the only character to pull up such an 180. Because he's never been one. Crocodile is more similar to Luffy than any of the other guys I mentioned above.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Ah yes the old "Sorry i tried to overthrow a government and killed 1000 people while trying to get my hand on a weapon of massdestruction, but now i'm good, since i did it for the queers" card.

But i will bite.

How is Buggy (who is getting bullied by croc and mihawk) more evil then him?