Games Cell Game 120 - Dragon Ball Z - Perfect Ending

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Hardy

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First of all, thank you everyone for joining, hope you had fun!

The... blowout we got doesn't leave a LOT to analyse, but I think a lot of what was experimented here was positive. Won't quote much (if at all) because otherwise this post will be never-ending and I kinda wanna get it done already lol.

I wanted a straight up town vs mafia fight, and this way emphasise the nature of the game in a more controlled environment. Everyone had an active role to match the mechanic, but at the same time most were duds to both give highlight to day discussions and make town weaker since all the mechanics were in their favour. This did NOT play like I intended, at all.

-Originally, it was a 5 vs 12 game with 5 weak mafias, but when it became a 16 people game and stuff had to go. Among the different changes and buffs, mafia "lost" their boss and gained a detective to learn the board faster, only for that player to be investigated n2 by a sane detective with different results.........

-4 detectives on the town side with a repeated bad sanity to keep everyone on their toes. Only one was legit.

-One prostitute and one sane doctor to complete the trifecta.

-A naive doctor paired with the hider as masons. Here I was hoping that the doctor would heal a player in the first nights and that the hider would hide on the same target, with potential for a 2x1 kill since the doctor was actually useless. Instead the hider was protected for some reason. I wanted to have them as sort of "best friends", while also keep them doubting in the off chance that one of them was a mafia mason or a lover. I did NOT remember that you PMed the mason party the roles of the entire party, which was way too much information for what I envisioned. Instead I just gave each other their own role, told them who was their partner, and informed them they had no recruiter. It was a middle ground that left me anxious since it did not follow the template at all, but in the end that hardly took a part in the game.

-Pyschiatrist as yet another weak role that would be out there looking for "something". I did not expect the masons to come out d1, so a big part of whatever I was hoping here didn't happen (especially since the game itself was incredibly short).

-Paranoid Spy mostly to add confusion, since everyone was active. I did not know its interaction with Spirit Medium.........

-Spirit Medium (Potato)... originally Freeman (Potato). Town could get an extra lynch and a ton of pressuring through the mechanic, so it was only fair to have a freeman. Having a single passive to confuse town would had been a positive, role wise. But, mechanically, this would have a player NOT going for interactions, which would be extremely odd and also against what I wanted to observe in the game. Instead, I settled with Spirit Medium that is rather inconsequential other than to make nights a bit clearer, maybe. Like I just said, the interaction it has with Paranoid Spy to confirm itself 100% flew over my head and I did not expect mafia to claim passive, so this role was overall a huge regret.
Potato would keep both roles busy in d1 if they wanted to pass it.

-Pirate... I had assumed would grab a dud. Instead they went for the kamikaze meta... needless to say, I heavily regret having this role in this game.

-Janitor was the heart and soul of the game and I fucked it up. I had said several times that investigator is overused, so I wanted it to have a fair chance on its own. It did not get it. Oh well, next time.

-Strongman so that mafia could confidently get rid of whoever they felt was a massive threat.

-Blocker because I wanted this party to be strong.

At one point I considered Mafia Pirate but since it was a party of just 4, with a mechanic that potentially removed killers, and it cannot kill after stealing (I hate this) I went against the idea.
The Mechanics: they were all there to increase engagement. We have a bit of an issue going on where people seem to be afraid of both being pressured and pressuring. The tools we have in our site do not help with this, either, so I think playstyles evolving into this is not unreasonable.

1. Forced first post being a vote: Since we don't have a bot that counts votes, we have a limit of 2 votes per phase. This means that every vote is extremely valuable, and voting for someone seemingly equals to wanting them out of the game. There's hardly any room for error and you cannot really pressure anyone unless the person you suspect has a couple of votes on their back...

... so with this mechanic everyone had 3 votes to play with, and those that screwed up got a penalty instead (which also increases votes and may lower spreads). It wasn't too hard to track since it was always on the first post of the day. Overall, I was satisfied with this mechanic, even if the snowball we saw made it mostly relevant in the first day only. Focusing on that first day: While this also meant that many took long to be part of discussions (since they couldn't post until they voted) there was plenty to discuss in what more often than not is a completely random lynch. Thanks to this mech and the sparrings, the voting wasn't awfully spread either, with 4~ options at EoD with 3 votes on them (in a 16 people game).

2. The Sparrings: used similar mechanics in Harry Potter (10% chance to kill) and Pokémon (extra vote, chance depending on Pokémon chosen, battles earned your "team" a kill). I liked this iteration the most (much more balanced, overall), except for the fact that in Pokémon there was the extra factor that allowed you to choose your mon (but that wouldn't be possible here since I wanted that 20%). With this mechanic we not only got extra votes, but also got to see who cooperated and who didn't. I did expect at least 1 extra lynch done this way, but Yajirobe was too good for you guys.

3. The interactions: while it was a bit of a bummer mechanic, it was really interesting to see how each of you faced it. It was never meant to be strict (I even gave you an example of a simple vote-vote-vote-spar-spar combo, while letting you know that I'd be lenient) and even then many did struggle with it. I think it not only made invisible people more... visible (oh the joy of Day 1 Holt) but it actually greatly helped to let me see patterns in how you guys play. It really evidenced who was actively looking for their enemies and who was either coasting or laying low. Overall, the thread got a healthy amount of posts and the bottom posters averaged more than they usually do, while the town leaders actually didn't write as much as they often do (or maybe didn't even have to, with all the pressuring tools they got).

Overall, while I liked the ideas and execution, having all of them together was too much of a bane for mafia and I should had either been less ambitious or focused more on making this game as smooth as possible for them (and even compensating them further in the role list, as with my freeman example). Town played really well and mafia had big fuck ups but the regret remains. This does prove however how much info a little push can get you, even on the early stages of the game.

Which takes us to the individual performances...
@AnimePigeon our newcomer. It was a delight to have you around, you are very eloquent and clearly do have plenty of experience in games like this one. However, the meta did affect you and, most importantly, this:
Farfalla 4th Det Claim yet more trusts than any claim before them when I'm almost certain, they likely fabricated there Innocent/Guilty's already knowing before hand who is Evil & who must be Good - by being an Evil.

I could be wrong ofcourse, but no one else is pushing this direction.

Will be interesting to see Panda flip to confirm what's going on.

But I don't think we should be having Panda flip.

I hate herd mentalities.
--- Double Post Merged, ---



I'm not sabotaging. It's as simple as we have differing results and you have just killed James.

You're very quick to jump onto the defensive which I find rather strange. I already confirmed yesterday I was targeting DD.

it just so happens you leading a charge on Panda & James dying for me makes you look a hella lot more sus.
You need to remember that, at the end of the day, this is a team game. By rejecting the extremely likely scenario that pretty much everyone was agreeing on, you were becoming an enemy of town. At that point it wasn't "not following the herd", but rather being a contrarian pretty much for the sake of it (and your untrustworthy results). What was there to earn by sparring with Farfalla there, other than making town frustrated? She was pretty much impossible to lynch that day. Could had even spar-killed the town's candidate, then introduced your own after it.

Your night targets seemed to be whoever you suspected the most which is straightforward enough.

-Asako: you overall had a good game, but I felt that in a lot of your posts you brought up good points but then felt short by not explaining them properly. For example, bringing up evidence that supported your Day 1 read on Kakoha comparing his play-style to last game's. It would had gotten the point across much better and left "hints" for comparisons in the future, too. Or another player could had read your comparison and done their own observations. Showing vs telling.

Sticking to healing Farfalla was lame but ultimately the best choice so... props there. I was surprised you didn't protect Holt N2 after bringing up in the middle of the thread that he was the prostitute. Speaking of, why even berate James in the middle of the thread? Mafias do miss posts, and the one townie that needed to have this information was you, the doctor. You can wait until the post-game to dunk on James, you ended up doing the same thing he did. In a game where every bit of information matters, asking yourself "why am I posting this?" is sometimes a positive.

-Brandish: short lived but did give us enough to ponder. You seemingly struggled with the mechanic, as you were one of the few that almost got their role paralysed. You were also rather close to being lynched, with 5 different people placing votes on you and only one of them not being town. Did time-zones get in your way? (I noticed you were mostly active at the start and end of the day).

Or did your masonry with Erin make you too confident on your safety, which eventually led you to spill the beans? Pretty much all your d1 energy went to talking about d1 randomness, interaction baiting and then defending yourself from that suspicious behaviour at EoD.

Healing Erin made very little sense and I do not remember if there was any deep reasoning behind it. I did screw whatever discussion you 2 could had had because I cannot Discord to save my life, sorry.

-DD: much like Brandish, struggled with the mechanic, and was carried by votes and spars to keep his role. You were active enough but would simply not engage in discussions, and town heavily suspected you because of this (even without my list!). You had the most "is this person really interacting, wanting to find scum?" posts of all players. This does keep you unpredictable if people compare behaviours of town dd vs mafia dd, but needless to say everyone knows you can 100% do better. Absolutely no need to claim with a single result either, lol.

-Desin: WHY DID YOU CLAIM PASSIVE WHEN YOU WERE CLEARLY FARMING INTERACTIONS AS A PLAYER THAT USUALLY POSTS LITTLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. AND THEN YOU CLAIM JESUS INSTEAD OF PGO SO THAT TOWN FEELS EXTRA SAFE KILLING YOU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

@Erinyes : another player that had issues with the mechanic. Erin, the way you go back at night to check on everyone's posts clearly shows that you can easily do this during the day, too. I know you were busy, but once you had time to post your day 2 was pretty much limited to "no u" or belittling the efforts of town, while you were comically safe from being lynched anyway. I did not understand why you played your cards so close to your chest for so long in that day either since Brand had been janitored and only town was being affected by not knowing his role.

Like I wrote to Pigeon, this is a team game. If something is upsetting you, take a breather, and then approach the game with a clearer head and show everyone what you are made of. Also, like I wrote to Asako, "why am I posting this?" applies here too. What was there to earn by throwing mud at town?

Sure, showing indignation and maybe some self-righteousness is usually read as green, but if it's not then it's just increasing the tension of a game that can get needlessly heated up.

Try to work on your pacing even if it means taking longer to catch up. Pretty much no one will vote you for "delaying" your views, fight that anxiety lol.

-Farfalla had a great game. Never lazy, really good targeting and analyses, and pressured people plenty even if the mechanics themselves did some work for her. Great call to go for wojak n2 who I felt was very suspected by everyone but "not enough" to use an action on (on top of that I imagine his voting may have painted him as an enemy party of James', who you targeted n1). I do wonder if you would had still gone with Panda if not for finding that post that alerted you, and if not then who and why. All the mechanics fit her except for the fact that she was evidently tense whenever the extra lynch wasn't achieved. Holding bad plays accountable while still remaining positive despite the spilled milk (which could easily end up clouding your views in other games) is the way to go. Gladly, you still had a cool head during the nights, so this is rather nit-picky.

-GB signed up to play.

Needless to say, everyone should had tried harder to save him (himself included). It's better to look suspicious than to lose a member AND look sus anyway (especially since they entered the night outnumbered 12 to 3).

-GrySun also did well. I really appreciated his D1 since he very evidently understood all the subjects and tasks I had for the game. Had an interesting back and forth with Holt in D1. Should work on de-escalating though since telling Holt he was "hurting his own reputation" accomplished nothing other than riling up the person he's discussing with.

Took a backseat once Farfalla became the clear town leader and was mostly supporting her plays (which, as he said, may not be as fun but things were going smoothly and having a ton of posts doesn't really help much either).

aaaaaaaaaaaaa that spirit medium - paranoid spy interaction.

Revealing spy helped the snowball grow bigger and was a good call, regardless of mafia detectiveing you or not (...that only made it better).

-"Oh the joy of D1 @Holt ". Cemented town as a threat from the get-go with very good and genuine interactions. Tried to remain calm despite his big whoopsie voting Brandish (interaction that clearly ended up on a positive note imo for uninvolved "bystanders"), except for the fact that he tunneled a bit on Gry for pointing out something... very fair, and this vote remained there for the rest of d1. From the host's eyes, I thought Gry's train of thought here was pretty clear, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

This also led him to think GrySun had a bit of a vendetta against him which was kinda funny.

Very clearly went back several times to check on the interactions other players had in order to understand each participant's train of thought better and then pressure accordingly if something felt off. I do not know if the mechanics incentivised him in a significant matter or if this is 100% on his own volition after walking into a mafia W last game, but it was really nice all around anyway.

Thirdly you’re being way too standoff-ish unnecessarily. Even with this response, where I’m pointing how somethings you are saying feel off, and you’re retorting by saying to lynch you then. Plus snide remarks about last game or providing info for no reason. Everything you or anyone else says is a claim until proven. Naturally it is up to be debated or how else is the game supposed to be played?
Positive post that I just found looking back and pretty much tells Erin something similar to what I told her... as a host in the post-game.

-James had a weird relationship both with the game and the mechanics. I think that, in principle, he was fine with both but then at some points he may have forced himself a bit too much which didn't come natural at all. He even admitted himself he struggles keeping focus when town and, after a back and forth in d2, "threw the towel" and left the thread. If he had eventually returned with a cool head I think this would had actually been positive, staying out of the thread is not necessarily a mafia move and he could had reorganised his trains of thought in the process.

...but this all became irrelevant because of Farf's results on him and wojak. I was actually looking forward to see how that would had developed.

It was asked before but why even make evident that you suspected Holt was the prostitute? He blocked you, naturally he'd pay extra attention to you the following day and whatever you had written (in a general manner) surely got the point across before you even said that.

EDIT 2: I skipped Kakoha LOL

He didn't get to do much, played a rather simple game and most of his posts are from when he had already decided to kill himself in order to win. I hate you.

Suspecting Farf but absolutely townreading Gry was very odd, tbh. Did that one hint you pointed out bug you that much? Surely you didn't really think she was hinting she had an anti-town role?

-Marm, the final townie in this list that almost lost her role. She was sick d1 but luckily among her 5 posts she had a combo interaction post where she talked to 3 different people. Between her sickness and the fact that the game was a bit on auto pilot with Farf detectiving scums + Gry confirming her, it was never really necessary for her to step up big time.

Was the first person to trust Pigeon afaik and was good at bringing up the newcomer into discussions in what otherwise could had felt like an uninviting surrounding.

@Copy Panda tried really hard and fought bravely despite the fact that it was an uphill battle from very early on. Reading his posts was really interesting since he was bringing up points about a lot of different players, but hardly ever in a direct way, usually avoiding conflict. This led to some situations where he was talking to both everyone and no one, and when pushed aback he conceded really fast (from the top of my head, the Holt interaction in d2). Also, funnily enough, he wasn't even getting interaction points from those posts.

Town panda is much more assertive even if he's in omo mode (omode). His cold furry feet when sparring were only the nail in the coffin.

Edit: I FUCKED UP WHEN I DID THE SWITCH FOR THE N2 KILL. I KILLED HOLT ASAP AND FORGOT TO JANITOR AAAAAAAAA. This removed a good claim for you (although I wonder if people would had suspected you even more for it, since Holt being prostitute was... evident). I expected you to consider claiming investigator (only for someone to say I hate that role), but that didn't happen.

-I was liking @Seraph 's day 1, I think the mechanics may have given him plenty of reasons to be confident putting his thoughts out there, even if it didn't 100% match the leaders'. He unfortunately went afk though and this isolated posting ended up looking unnatural because of the mechanic.

I think you need to work on how your organise your thoughts in your posts, tbh. This is not an issue with your English nor anything like that, but the structure of what you write instead. This actually ends up giving the impression that you are either writing a lot but saying little or flip flopping, even when you are giving your most earnest thoughts.

For starters, being more concise should also do wonders, you are trying to send a message and walls of text do not help anyone. This would be hypocritical of me rn if I actually was expecting you all to read everything, but I know most won't and simply scrolled to their names (and that's kind of the point). Meanwhile, as a player, you are trying to get your entire points across to several different people with different agendas, different availability and coming from different parts of the world.

-wojak also tried hard but was overwhelmed in his welcome to the world of reds. You had this extremely funny interaction with Panda, who was your teammate grasping at straws to make a silly point: he brought up that you barely said "chud". This ended up with you overcompensating like a guy with a micropenis buying a monster truck, and from then on every other post of yours had "chud" in it. Something similar happened when you left a hint later on

didn't want to say more this early but.....how about active?
Why are you phrasing it like a question?! lol

I think this perfectly defines how you approached this game: with a lot of insecurity, which ended up removing any sort of genuineness you tried to convey in your posts. In the last game you were dead set on lynching me and that helped you focus on a target and a wincon, you should go back to that sort of mentality in your next game.

This took like 3 days to write, Tl;dr.

Feel free to question or dispute anything.
 
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Kakoha

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If I get your hint right then killing you might be used to to frame the person you target or?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Given timezones I think @Brandish μ is afk till end of day right?
I won't be giving any more information. my point is that I'm gonna share my target. any conclusions you reach from that is up to you. I won't confirm or deny anything
 

James Rye

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true, I regret missing my second spar :(
but in any case, I'm not that worried about the 5 interactions thing, I think it'll probably get pumped up very quickly when the day is nearing its end.

also, this is my second game here, that you for the welcomes ^^
Your 2nd game at 0 messages? Do you got a new account or is MH just really slow at counting lately?
 

Asako

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Your 2nd game at 0 messages? Do you got a new account or is MH just really slow at counting lately?
FF isn't counted as messages, and he only joined for MG, I'm the one who invited him
 

Kakoha

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did anyone claim passive already?
if no (cauz I don't recall any but maybe I missed something or maybe I forgot) , does anyone have a passive role ?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Your 2nd game at 0 messages? Do you got a new account or is MH just really slow at counting lately?
I'm new at MH too xD
I literally just created an account for mafia game, I still didn't use it for anything else.
 

James Rye

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FF isn't counted as messages, and he only joined for MG, I'm the one who invited him
Okay then, but this guy is here for his first MG, right?


Vote Kill AnimePigeon

That's how you do it right? lol 😂 someone's gotta do an obligatory self-vote.
Like self-voting in your first post ain't something I have seen anyone doing not even a newbie though it seems AnimePigeon entered via DD's invitation as they had a mafia champ game together?

In any case, @AnimePigeon if this is your first Mafia game here, WELCOME and I hope you stay. And please don't suicide vote yourself anymore please.^^
 

Asako

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Nobody claimed passive yet
Also about wojak i need to reread but i believe he said sth else for a hint other than he not vanilla to farfalla when she told him that not a hint

Eh guess need to backread or anyone does the hint list (cough erin cough)
Tho she did say she busy
 

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@AnimePigeon so far I like the way you respond. I see you popped up midway in my conversation with Gry. What are your thoughts?

Same for @Kakoha who seems to have been here for a while. And @Copy Panda who just got back
Thus far my thoughts are that I am liking the Discussions & Content provided by GrySun.

I have a rather null read of DigitalDude & Copy Panda.

The Fact Copy Panda is so hung up on my Self-Vote has be questioning them in my head, as there is simply nothing for me to gain for me to suggest I am open to being killed, other than potentially dissuade NK's from my direction, as why would an Evil Kill a "Easy" Mis-Vote/Mis-Lynch?

So I would argue a Self-Vote could be used as a Gambit to try and guage/read the room and bait Evil into killing someone's else under the pretence I am easier to mis-vote.

Similar to how one may hide some view until the game progresses, given the chance one may share there hand too early and be marked for death.

Still trying to read up and gather more thoughts, no quite used to this platform yet, but I shall get there :)
 

AnimePigeon

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Okay then, but this guy is here for his first MG, right?




Like self-voting in your first post ain't something I have seen anyone doing not even a newbie though it seems AnimePigeon entered via DD's invitation as they had a mafia champ game together?

In any case, @AnimePigeon if this is your first Mafia game here, WELCOME and I hope you stay. And please don't suicide vote yourself anymore please.^^
Noted! :)

Thanks for the warm welcome! 🤗
 

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Nobody claimed passive yet
Also about wojak i need to reread but i believe he said sth else for a hint other than he not vanilla to farfalla when she told him that not a hint

Eh guess need to backread or anyone does the hint list (cough erin cough)
Tho she did say she busy
I have a feeling someone hinted passive but I gotta reread. I found wojak giving another hint at page 3 last post:

didn't want to say more this early but.....how about active?
active with ? it is then.
 

Farfalla

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@Holt, since it was random and you didn't see the voting list, what made you go with Bran specifically? There has to be a criteria behind it, even if random. As in, why was Bran's name the one that popped up?

I voted for a criteria not a person so I'll likely remove my vote from Bran but there is a scenario where this Holt/Bran thing could be a maneouver to make people like me walk away (something that was even said alrdy). "A" scenario, but yeah. Just cause at some point it was asked what could be a reason for a vote like that from Holt. Risky, yes, but the big bolded part you mentioned, Holtie, mentioned that we had 3 votes, so less risky now with some time to work on it. And it's a smart move a player like you could attempt, imo. People are going different ways on what things could be so that alone says something... Won't be pressuring you further much but felt like sharing those 2 cents, and since you were happy about the mech rules, I wonder what's your opinion on other players so far.

@Seraph, can you just elaborate on your sentiment about Gry since you agree with Holt a lot but only spoke by yourself about Asako so far?

I'm still on page 9. Failing at keeping up with my planning session and the game, ugh. Gonna keep reading back.
 

desin24

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Nobody claimed passive yet
Also about wojak i need to reread but i believe he said sth else for a hint other than he not vanilla to farfalla when she told him that not a hint

Eh guess need to backread or anyone does the hint list (cough erin cough)
Tho she did say she busy
I did a page or two ago :)
 

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@Asako

desin claimed passive role, page 11:

Hey there passive role here. Sorry for the slow responses. Long day at work.

Gonna have to catch up now
 

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Well Wojak claimed he ain't a Vanilla Townie:



And that he got a role but honestly that kinda claim, which leaves passive and active open to claim later on day 2, coupled with a call for people to talk about their roles and night actions and then going afk later just screams SUS to me. <.<
Indeed. Seems like trying to keep things open.

@wojak would you be willing to clear up. Given you are one of the highest voted
 

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@Asako

desin claimed passive role, page 11:
you kinda rewrote what desin JUST said xDDD
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

you kinda rewrote what desin JUST said xDDD
but maybe u were just backreading and its just random .. u provided that exact post so that's a thing
 

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@James Rye did you mention alrdy why Wojak even if random (what propted the name and bla bla bla)
A look at the voting polls seeing him at 3rd and having a penalty. I figured by putting Wojak up there with the current two top voted I would get to see more vote changing in the last phase of the game then if it was only a 1 vs 1 about which I had no idea why it came to be plus the penalty could serve as a good excuse for Mafia when they votechange to wojak and wojak dies townie as in "ah man, if only Wojak didn't had the penalty".
 
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