Games Cell Game 120 - Dragon Ball Z - Perfect Ending

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Hardy

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First of all, thank you everyone for joining, hope you had fun!

The... blowout we got doesn't leave a LOT to analyse, but I think a lot of what was experimented here was positive. Won't quote much (if at all) because otherwise this post will be never-ending and I kinda wanna get it done already lol.

I wanted a straight up town vs mafia fight, and this way emphasise the nature of the game in a more controlled environment. Everyone had an active role to match the mechanic, but at the same time most were duds to both give highlight to day discussions and make town weaker since all the mechanics were in their favour. This did NOT play like I intended, at all.

-Originally, it was a 5 vs 12 game with 5 weak mafias, but when it became a 16 people game and stuff had to go. Among the different changes and buffs, mafia "lost" their boss and gained a detective to learn the board faster, only for that player to be investigated n2 by a sane detective with different results.........

-4 detectives on the town side with a repeated bad sanity to keep everyone on their toes. Only one was legit.

-One prostitute and one sane doctor to complete the trifecta.

-A naive doctor paired with the hider as masons. Here I was hoping that the doctor would heal a player in the first nights and that the hider would hide on the same target, with potential for a 2x1 kill since the doctor was actually useless. Instead the hider was protected for some reason. I wanted to have them as sort of "best friends", while also keep them doubting in the off chance that one of them was a mafia mason or a lover. I did NOT remember that you PMed the mason party the roles of the entire party, which was way too much information for what I envisioned. Instead I just gave each other their own role, told them who was their partner, and informed them they had no recruiter. It was a middle ground that left me anxious since it did not follow the template at all, but in the end that hardly took a part in the game.

-Pyschiatrist as yet another weak role that would be out there looking for "something". I did not expect the masons to come out d1, so a big part of whatever I was hoping here didn't happen (especially since the game itself was incredibly short).

-Paranoid Spy mostly to add confusion, since everyone was active. I did not know its interaction with Spirit Medium.........

-Spirit Medium (Potato)... originally Freeman (Potato). Town could get an extra lynch and a ton of pressuring through the mechanic, so it was only fair to have a freeman. Having a single passive to confuse town would had been a positive, role wise. But, mechanically, this would have a player NOT going for interactions, which would be extremely odd and also against what I wanted to observe in the game. Instead, I settled with Spirit Medium that is rather inconsequential other than to make nights a bit clearer, maybe. Like I just said, the interaction it has with Paranoid Spy to confirm itself 100% flew over my head and I did not expect mafia to claim passive, so this role was overall a huge regret.
Potato would keep both roles busy in d1 if they wanted to pass it.

-Pirate... I had assumed would grab a dud. Instead they went for the kamikaze meta... needless to say, I heavily regret having this role in this game.

-Janitor was the heart and soul of the game and I fucked it up. I had said several times that investigator is overused, so I wanted it to have a fair chance on its own. It did not get it. Oh well, next time.

-Strongman so that mafia could confidently get rid of whoever they felt was a massive threat.

-Blocker because I wanted this party to be strong.

At one point I considered Mafia Pirate but since it was a party of just 4, with a mechanic that potentially removed killers, and it cannot kill after stealing (I hate this) I went against the idea.
The Mechanics: they were all there to increase engagement. We have a bit of an issue going on where people seem to be afraid of both being pressured and pressuring. The tools we have in our site do not help with this, either, so I think playstyles evolving into this is not unreasonable.

1. Forced first post being a vote: Since we don't have a bot that counts votes, we have a limit of 2 votes per phase. This means that every vote is extremely valuable, and voting for someone seemingly equals to wanting them out of the game. There's hardly any room for error and you cannot really pressure anyone unless the person you suspect has a couple of votes on their back...

... so with this mechanic everyone had 3 votes to play with, and those that screwed up got a penalty instead (which also increases votes and may lower spreads). It wasn't too hard to track since it was always on the first post of the day. Overall, I was satisfied with this mechanic, even if the snowball we saw made it mostly relevant in the first day only. Focusing on that first day: While this also meant that many took long to be part of discussions (since they couldn't post until they voted) there was plenty to discuss in what more often than not is a completely random lynch. Thanks to this mech and the sparrings, the voting wasn't awfully spread either, with 4~ options at EoD with 3 votes on them (in a 16 people game).

2. The Sparrings: used similar mechanics in Harry Potter (10% chance to kill) and Pokémon (extra vote, chance depending on Pokémon chosen, battles earned your "team" a kill). I liked this iteration the most (much more balanced, overall), except for the fact that in Pokémon there was the extra factor that allowed you to choose your mon (but that wouldn't be possible here since I wanted that 20%). With this mechanic we not only got extra votes, but also got to see who cooperated and who didn't. I did expect at least 1 extra lynch done this way, but Yajirobe was too good for you guys.

3. The interactions: while it was a bit of a bummer mechanic, it was really interesting to see how each of you faced it. It was never meant to be strict (I even gave you an example of a simple vote-vote-vote-spar-spar combo, while letting you know that I'd be lenient) and even then many did struggle with it. I think it not only made invisible people more... visible (oh the joy of Day 1 Holt) but it actually greatly helped to let me see patterns in how you guys play. It really evidenced who was actively looking for their enemies and who was either coasting or laying low. Overall, the thread got a healthy amount of posts and the bottom posters averaged more than they usually do, while the town leaders actually didn't write as much as they often do (or maybe didn't even have to, with all the pressuring tools they got).

Overall, while I liked the ideas and execution, having all of them together was too much of a bane for mafia and I should had either been less ambitious or focused more on making this game as smooth as possible for them (and even compensating them further in the role list, as with my freeman example). Town played really well and mafia had big fuck ups but the regret remains. This does prove however how much info a little push can get you, even on the early stages of the game.

Which takes us to the individual performances...
@AnimePigeon our newcomer. It was a delight to have you around, you are very eloquent and clearly do have plenty of experience in games like this one. However, the meta did affect you and, most importantly, this:
Farfalla 4th Det Claim yet more trusts than any claim before them when I'm almost certain, they likely fabricated there Innocent/Guilty's already knowing before hand who is Evil & who must be Good - by being an Evil.

I could be wrong ofcourse, but no one else is pushing this direction.

Will be interesting to see Panda flip to confirm what's going on.

But I don't think we should be having Panda flip.

I hate herd mentalities.
--- Double Post Merged, ---



I'm not sabotaging. It's as simple as we have differing results and you have just killed James.

You're very quick to jump onto the defensive which I find rather strange. I already confirmed yesterday I was targeting DD.

it just so happens you leading a charge on Panda & James dying for me makes you look a hella lot more sus.
You need to remember that, at the end of the day, this is a team game. By rejecting the extremely likely scenario that pretty much everyone was agreeing on, you were becoming an enemy of town. At that point it wasn't "not following the herd", but rather being a contrarian pretty much for the sake of it (and your untrustworthy results). What was there to earn by sparring with Farfalla there, other than making town frustrated? She was pretty much impossible to lynch that day. Could had even spar-killed the town's candidate, then introduced your own after it.

Your night targets seemed to be whoever you suspected the most which is straightforward enough.

-Asako: you overall had a good game, but I felt that in a lot of your posts you brought up good points but then felt short by not explaining them properly. For example, bringing up evidence that supported your Day 1 read on Kakoha comparing his play-style to last game's. It would had gotten the point across much better and left "hints" for comparisons in the future, too. Or another player could had read your comparison and done their own observations. Showing vs telling.

Sticking to healing Farfalla was lame but ultimately the best choice so... props there. I was surprised you didn't protect Holt N2 after bringing up in the middle of the thread that he was the prostitute. Speaking of, why even berate James in the middle of the thread? Mafias do miss posts, and the one townie that needed to have this information was you, the doctor. You can wait until the post-game to dunk on James, you ended up doing the same thing he did. In a game where every bit of information matters, asking yourself "why am I posting this?" is sometimes a positive.

-Brandish: short lived but did give us enough to ponder. You seemingly struggled with the mechanic, as you were one of the few that almost got their role paralysed. You were also rather close to being lynched, with 5 different people placing votes on you and only one of them not being town. Did time-zones get in your way? (I noticed you were mostly active at the start and end of the day).

Or did your masonry with Erin make you too confident on your safety, which eventually led you to spill the beans? Pretty much all your d1 energy went to talking about d1 randomness, interaction baiting and then defending yourself from that suspicious behaviour at EoD.

Healing Erin made very little sense and I do not remember if there was any deep reasoning behind it. I did screw whatever discussion you 2 could had had because I cannot Discord to save my life, sorry.

-DD: much like Brandish, struggled with the mechanic, and was carried by votes and spars to keep his role. You were active enough but would simply not engage in discussions, and town heavily suspected you because of this (even without my list!). You had the most "is this person really interacting, wanting to find scum?" posts of all players. This does keep you unpredictable if people compare behaviours of town dd vs mafia dd, but needless to say everyone knows you can 100% do better. Absolutely no need to claim with a single result either, lol.

-Desin: WHY DID YOU CLAIM PASSIVE WHEN YOU WERE CLEARLY FARMING INTERACTIONS AS A PLAYER THAT USUALLY POSTS LITTLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. AND THEN YOU CLAIM JESUS INSTEAD OF PGO SO THAT TOWN FEELS EXTRA SAFE KILLING YOU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

@Erinyes : another player that had issues with the mechanic. Erin, the way you go back at night to check on everyone's posts clearly shows that you can easily do this during the day, too. I know you were busy, but once you had time to post your day 2 was pretty much limited to "no u" or belittling the efforts of town, while you were comically safe from being lynched anyway. I did not understand why you played your cards so close to your chest for so long in that day either since Brand had been janitored and only town was being affected by not knowing his role.

Like I wrote to Pigeon, this is a team game. If something is upsetting you, take a breather, and then approach the game with a clearer head and show everyone what you are made of. Also, like I wrote to Asako, "why am I posting this?" applies here too. What was there to earn by throwing mud at town?

Sure, showing indignation and maybe some self-righteousness is usually read as green, but if it's not then it's just increasing the tension of a game that can get needlessly heated up.

Try to work on your pacing even if it means taking longer to catch up. Pretty much no one will vote you for "delaying" your views, fight that anxiety lol.

-Farfalla had a great game. Never lazy, really good targeting and analyses, and pressured people plenty even if the mechanics themselves did some work for her. Great call to go for wojak n2 who I felt was very suspected by everyone but "not enough" to use an action on (on top of that I imagine his voting may have painted him as an enemy party of James', who you targeted n1). I do wonder if you would had still gone with Panda if not for finding that post that alerted you, and if not then who and why. All the mechanics fit her except for the fact that she was evidently tense whenever the extra lynch wasn't achieved. Holding bad plays accountable while still remaining positive despite the spilled milk (which could easily end up clouding your views in other games) is the way to go. Gladly, you still had a cool head during the nights, so this is rather nit-picky.

-GB signed up to play.

Needless to say, everyone should had tried harder to save him (himself included). It's better to look suspicious than to lose a member AND look sus anyway (especially since they entered the night outnumbered 12 to 3).

-GrySun also did well. I really appreciated his D1 since he very evidently understood all the subjects and tasks I had for the game. Had an interesting back and forth with Holt in D1. Should work on de-escalating though since telling Holt he was "hurting his own reputation" accomplished nothing other than riling up the person he's discussing with.

Took a backseat once Farfalla became the clear town leader and was mostly supporting her plays (which, as he said, may not be as fun but things were going smoothly and having a ton of posts doesn't really help much either).

aaaaaaaaaaaaa that spirit medium - paranoid spy interaction.

Revealing spy helped the snowball grow bigger and was a good call, regardless of mafia detectiveing you or not (...that only made it better).

-"Oh the joy of D1 @Holt ". Cemented town as a threat from the get-go with very good and genuine interactions. Tried to remain calm despite his big whoopsie voting Brandish (interaction that clearly ended up on a positive note imo for uninvolved "bystanders"), except for the fact that he tunneled a bit on Gry for pointing out something... very fair, and this vote remained there for the rest of d1. From the host's eyes, I thought Gry's train of thought here was pretty clear, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

This also led him to think GrySun had a bit of a vendetta against him which was kinda funny.

Very clearly went back several times to check on the interactions other players had in order to understand each participant's train of thought better and then pressure accordingly if something felt off. I do not know if the mechanics incentivised him in a significant matter or if this is 100% on his own volition after walking into a mafia W last game, but it was really nice all around anyway.

Thirdly you’re being way too standoff-ish unnecessarily. Even with this response, where I’m pointing how somethings you are saying feel off, and you’re retorting by saying to lynch you then. Plus snide remarks about last game or providing info for no reason. Everything you or anyone else says is a claim until proven. Naturally it is up to be debated or how else is the game supposed to be played?
Positive post that I just found looking back and pretty much tells Erin something similar to what I told her... as a host in the post-game.

-James had a weird relationship both with the game and the mechanics. I think that, in principle, he was fine with both but then at some points he may have forced himself a bit too much which didn't come natural at all. He even admitted himself he struggles keeping focus when town and, after a back and forth in d2, "threw the towel" and left the thread. If he had eventually returned with a cool head I think this would had actually been positive, staying out of the thread is not necessarily a mafia move and he could had reorganised his trains of thought in the process.

...but this all became irrelevant because of Farf's results on him and wojak. I was actually looking forward to see how that would had developed.

It was asked before but why even make evident that you suspected Holt was the prostitute? He blocked you, naturally he'd pay extra attention to you the following day and whatever you had written (in a general manner) surely got the point across before you even said that.

EDIT 2: I skipped Kakoha LOL

He didn't get to do much, played a rather simple game and most of his posts are from when he had already decided to kill himself in order to win. I hate you.

Suspecting Farf but absolutely townreading Gry was very odd, tbh. Did that one hint you pointed out bug you that much? Surely you didn't really think she was hinting she had an anti-town role?

-Marm, the final townie in this list that almost lost her role. She was sick d1 but luckily among her 5 posts she had a combo interaction post where she talked to 3 different people. Between her sickness and the fact that the game was a bit on auto pilot with Farf detectiving scums + Gry confirming her, it was never really necessary for her to step up big time.

Was the first person to trust Pigeon afaik and was good at bringing up the newcomer into discussions in what otherwise could had felt like an uninviting surrounding.

@Copy Panda tried really hard and fought bravely despite the fact that it was an uphill battle from very early on. Reading his posts was really interesting since he was bringing up points about a lot of different players, but hardly ever in a direct way, usually avoiding conflict. This led to some situations where he was talking to both everyone and no one, and when pushed aback he conceded really fast (from the top of my head, the Holt interaction in d2). Also, funnily enough, he wasn't even getting interaction points from those posts.

Town panda is much more assertive even if he's in omo mode (omode). His cold furry feet when sparring were only the nail in the coffin.

Edit: I FUCKED UP WHEN I DID THE SWITCH FOR THE N2 KILL. I KILLED HOLT ASAP AND FORGOT TO JANITOR AAAAAAAAA. This removed a good claim for you (although I wonder if people would had suspected you even more for it, since Holt being prostitute was... evident). I expected you to consider claiming investigator (only for someone to say I hate that role), but that didn't happen.

-I was liking @Seraph 's day 1, I think the mechanics may have given him plenty of reasons to be confident putting his thoughts out there, even if it didn't 100% match the leaders'. He unfortunately went afk though and this isolated posting ended up looking unnatural because of the mechanic.

I think you need to work on how your organise your thoughts in your posts, tbh. This is not an issue with your English nor anything like that, but the structure of what you write instead. This actually ends up giving the impression that you are either writing a lot but saying little or flip flopping, even when you are giving your most earnest thoughts.

For starters, being more concise should also do wonders, you are trying to send a message and walls of text do not help anyone. This would be hypocritical of me rn if I actually was expecting you all to read everything, but I know most won't and simply scrolled to their names (and that's kind of the point). Meanwhile, as a player, you are trying to get your entire points across to several different people with different agendas, different availability and coming from different parts of the world.

-wojak also tried hard but was overwhelmed in his welcome to the world of reds. You had this extremely funny interaction with Panda, who was your teammate grasping at straws to make a silly point: he brought up that you barely said "chud". This ended up with you overcompensating like a guy with a micropenis buying a monster truck, and from then on every other post of yours had "chud" in it. Something similar happened when you left a hint later on

didn't want to say more this early but.....how about active?
Why are you phrasing it like a question?! lol

I think this perfectly defines how you approached this game: with a lot of insecurity, which ended up removing any sort of genuineness you tried to convey in your posts. In the last game you were dead set on lynching me and that helped you focus on a target and a wincon, you should go back to that sort of mentality in your next game.

This took like 3 days to write, Tl;dr.

Feel free to question or dispute anything.
 
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GrySun

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The whole situation with sacking Escort would normally make everyone involved in his lynch town, DD included. But with possible third party and weird mafia plays nothing can be fully excluded.
I do not mind leaving DD and Wojak to simmer in their Detective soup until either mafia helps us out by killing or they eventually slip up further, if they are not legit.
 

AnimePigeon

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Is there any way to Isolated and View 1 Players posts on this Forum?

I know some Forums allow you to toggle between the players you want to see the posts of and what not - to allow for easier isolated review.
 

GrySun

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Is there any way to Isolated and View 1 Players posts on this Forum?

I know some Forums allow you to toggle between the players you want to see the posts of and what not - to allow for easier isolated review.
Go to the Mafia Game subforum view, that shows this clickable thread among others. You then press on the postcount next to the thread name. This opens a convenient view of who posted how many times, and the postcount number is clickable again to show them nicely sorted.
 

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Votekill digitaldude

So Kakoha ended up dying? Figured as much when this odd "I'll reveal my Target before dying"-Strat came out.

I kinda feel like it's a little too predictable for us to go right after Desin. Kakoha says he will target him, Mafia/TP kills Kakoha before he can, Town immediatly concludes that Desin must've broken out in a cold sweat from Kakoha's Announcement and wants to lynch him for it.

I mean, i don't trust Desin, but still wouldn't he be the first one to go after Kakoha's death? Unless the TP or Mafia is aiming for that and wants us to lynch a Townie instead? Hmm...guess we'll have to hear from the Man first before making any deciding moves. I'm down to spar against him though for sure, but i'd wait for us all to challenge him until the 2nd Sparring Session and use our first Sparring against whoever else would come to mind for us.

Should still be enough to get Desin dropped if everyone challenges him in the 2nd Session, like that he has Time to respond and we should be able to drop 4 of those Spar/Atk. Marks on him to get him removed afterwards. And we can use the 1st Session to put some heat on some other Competitors that may not have been too vocal.

Why did i vote DD? I don't trust that last minute Det. reveal and i kinda doubt with 2 Det. out in the open that the Pirate and Super Mason would die first but that's me.
There's the possibility mafia just didn't account for Kakoha having a role that could cause suicide.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

The whole situation with sacking Escort would normally make everyone involved in his lynch town, DD included. But with possible third party and weird mafia plays nothing can be fully excluded.
I do not mind leaving DD and Wojak to simmer in their Detective soup until either mafia helps us out by killing or they eventually slip up further, if they are not legit.
If Des at some point gets proved as mafia, then DD was also his vote and he didn't vote it even tho he was around almost till the end.
 

GrySun

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Yes, there‘s a fairly large amount of circumstances that are in favor of DD being town.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Or not in the same team with desin rather
 

AnimePigeon

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Personally, I'm going to give @digitaldude some credit for the time being.

He was correct on GB being Evil - could easily have thrown an ally under the bus for credit, but it's a bold strategy for a Evil Team that likely isn't high in numbers.
 

Seraph

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ERINYES IS GUILTY SHE IS GUILTY!! vote kill erinyes
And your sanity, in case you're actually Det., unproven.

Brandish would've basically incriminated her then.
 

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For what it's worth - I targeted Copy Panda last night
 

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And your sanity, in case you're actually Det., unproven.

Brandish would've basically incriminated her then.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Not rly, she could be a mafia mason and he wouldnt know. But yeah, the result alone means nothing.
Result means nothing, perhaps. Still this implies we need to check Erin in detail. Have her testify what she and Brandish discussed in their mason Pad, reveal her role, etc.
 

Marmalade

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!votekill Desin. Considering the situation regarding Kakoha, it seems like a logical step to do -
Though I am wondering if Mafia could have killed Kakoha directly to frame Desin possibly. Not sure how that'd work priority wise. That theory makes less sense though, suppose that calls for a solo-janitor extra scum party? Desin being not green just seems more likely imo.


--

As for last phase: I genuinely intended on being more active after work, it was a long day and a migraine during my workday. Got only worse when I was home so just posted what I could had lay down after that '-' Still not 100% feeling okay, but at least I can think again. Just hoping it'll stay this way and not go back to what it was yesterday (It's been going up/down since Friday).

But considering this day has just started and I don't have to go anywhere for a few days I'm sure it'll work out somehow ✨
 

Farfalla

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!votekill Desin. Considering the situation regarding Kakoha, it seems like a logical step to do -
Though I am wondering if Mafia could have killed Kakoha directly to frame Desin possibly. Not sure how that'd work priority wise. That theory makes less sense though, suppose that calls for a solo-janitor extra scum party? Desin being not green just seems more likely imo.


--

As for last phase: I genuinely intended on being more active after work, it was a long day and a migraine during my workday. Got only worse when I was home so just posted what I could had lay down after that '-' Still not 100% feeling okay, but at least I can think again. Just hoping it'll stay this way and not go back to what it was yesterday (It's been going up/down since Friday).

But considering this day has just started and I don't have to go anywhere for a few days I'm sure it'll work out somehow ✨
Our deceased super mason didn't like you and you're one of the people that were around enough to trigger the mech and vanish
 

Marmalade

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Also, didn't use my role as that was not useful last night (I will use it tonight, yes this is a hint). I did however potato someone.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Our deceased super mason didn't like you and you're one of the people that were around enough to trigger the mech and vanish
I didn't vanish on purpose though ^^' Idk if you read my whole post. I missed that he didn't like me actually, but skimmed mostly to get here, but was planning on reading older posts anyway
 

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@Erinyes your call for action, share some information from your mason pad, maybe about your primary role please. And anything you knew in regards to Brandish's main role. Perhaps targetting choice/s etc.

Not rly, she could be a mafia mason and he wouldnt know. But yeah, the result alone means nothing.
Is the Mafia Mason a main role or a subrole for the Mafias?

Also, didn't use my role as that was not useful last night (I will use it tonight, yes this is a hint). I did however potato someone.
That being?
 

Asako

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@Marmalade you had the option tho to use your role right, like you got exactly the number and then disappeared that's effy
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Iffy*
 

Farfalla

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Also, didn't use my role as that was not useful last night (I will use it tonight, yes this is a hint). I did however potato someone.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



I didn't vanish on purpose though ^^' Idk if you read my whole post. I missed that he didn't like me actually, but skimmed mostly to get here, but was planning on reading older posts anyway
I did, and I'm not saying you're lying but stories can be made up so I was pointing the pattern out.
Your hints are interesting tho, appreciated.
 

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Tunisia
You gave farfalla the potato?
Why tho, she voted gb that was a mafia, she basically confirmed not red (could be sth else but still not red)
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Unless I'm misunderstanding what farfalla said
 
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