TV House of The Dragon

[M3J]

Yes Aemond. That was such a weird scene, unless I'm forgetting something that showed he had humanity

 

[xi0]

The queen just happens to run into a random wing while flying around? I suppose it's technically not impossible but those odds seem pretty damn long even if she was around the area her kid died. The wing would have fallen god knows where in the ocean.

Most things would wash to shore, Luke was killed above Storm's End so it wouldn't necessarily be that farfetched maybe.

I would think he wouldn't be gone for the rest of the season, so will we get some scenes in Oldtown?

I haven't read much of anything from set spies or whether it would even happen this season but my guess is Otto is how we'll be getting scenes in order to establish Daeron rather than him just randomly showing up at Bitterbridge or whenever they decide to make him relevant. I found it a bit odd that they mention him now but not mention he's a dragonrider.

He did say it while out of his mind, but Alicent doesn't know that, and based on what we've seen from her, she truly does believe it was a message that he changed his mind to Aegon. I see it as the opposite, since she didn't put Aegon on the throne for her own selfish reasons, but because she thought that was what Viserys actually wanted, and thus can be justified.

Idk, the entire portrayal of the Greens thus far seems very intentionally aimed at making them the most hypocritical group of people on Westeros. Perhaps my memory is failing me in regards to how important the prophecy might be to her but I can't really see that being the case unless it actually comes up again. Alicent believes Aegon should be on the throne she is her son and she resents Rhaenyra, and they planted the seed of resentment even before the timeskip. Perhaps it'll come up again but I have serious doubts that she will present it in a sincere way. It'd be merely a convenience to justify her actions.

He told her stories that he was told, some of which had information she ended up using later on. Regarding dragons, the only thing we're told he taught her was them eating burnt meat. And while the stories for the most parts do support the idea that it's genetic, there's enough little things to suggest there has to be an additional factor, such as how several of the eggs never manage to be hatched.

If I'm not mistaken, dragons eating cooked meat is the only thing revealed to us the readers regarding what Viserys knew about dragons and for all we know that might not even be special knowledge at all really. Assuming he knew anything of value besides things that might be commonly known is a mistake IMO, she would have thought about these things more and it sort of goes against GRRM's writing style. But I won't belabor the point.

I think the implication with unhatched eggs is the absence of magic. Remember, Dany pretty much hatched her eggs via blood magic, "only death can pay for life". Perhaps that's how it worked back in these times as well, but it was very clearly protected knowledge and lost to history. Otherwise you wouldn't have Aerion Brightflame drinking wildfire or the kinds of things implied about the Tragedy of Summerhall with Aegon V.

But if you want way more detail than I can recall on my own right now regarding the genetics theories, here's the start of a video series on it -


The summary being that the gene required to be a dragonrider is X and in order to hatch dragons you need XX, implying that only women can do it. It's a bit of a thought experiment but most of the details in the story kind of line up if you are willing to assume those 2 things. It's farfetched but like I mentioned in another post, several of GRRM's previous works focus on genetics and this kind of thing so it's not necessarily completely out of left field.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2024, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2024 ---

What's the other brother's name, the one-eyed brother of Aemon? I forgot. It was weird to see him show remorse and regret, I always thought he was a bit fucked up and psychopathic even from a young age.

The show very clearly showed that killing Luke wasn't Aemond's intention, regardless of how cartoonishly villainous he comes off

 

[terdes]

Returning of young Rhaenyra were great to me

 

[Rikudou King]

Was expecting a talk to happen further down the line, but I do enjoy their interactions. Aegon antagonizing seems foolish when he has so few powerful allies, but I guess we'll see what happens. And curious if these dreams are gonna have an effect on Daemon's future actions.

I haven't read much of anything from set spies or whether it would even happen this season but my guess is Otto is how we'll be getting scenes in order to establish Daeron rather than him just randomly showing up at Bitterbridge or whenever they decide to make him relevant. I found it a bit odd that they mention him now but not mention he's a dragonrider.

I'm assuming it's simply because his dragon should be young, and therefore he's technically wouldn't be considered a dragonrider. Similar to how Rhaenyra's younger children aren't really considered dragonriders even though they have dragons.

Idk, the entire portrayal of the Greens thus far seems very intentionally aimed at making them the most hypocritical group of people on Westeros. Perhaps my memory is failing me in regards to how important the prophecy might be to her but I can't really see that being the case unless it actually comes up again. Alicent believes Aegon should be on the throne she is her son and she resents Rhaenyra, and they planted the seed of resentment even before the timeskip. Perhaps it'll come up again but I have serious doubts that she will present it in a sincere way. It'd be merely a convenience to justify her actions.

While the Greens as a group is portrayed this way, they're clearly trying to make things somewhat balance using Alicent. Before Viserys died, she acknowledged Rheaenyra as the future queen and they had made peace, and while she put Aegon on the throne, she showed she wanted to avoid bloodshed. And of course, the recent episode showed she truly believed it and despite learning the truth and wanting to avoid war, she's powerless to do anything to stop events. That said, I would argue that the only real hypocrites are Otto and Cristen from what we've been shown.

If I'm not mistaken, dragons eating cooked meat is the only thing revealed to us the readers regarding what Viserys knew about dragons and for all we know that might not even be special knowledge at all really. Assuming he knew anything of value besides things that might be commonly known is a mistake IMO, she would have thought about these things more and it sort of goes against GRRM's writing style. But I won't belabor the point.

I think the implication with unhatched eggs is the absence of magic. Remember, Dany pretty much hatched her eggs via blood magic, "only death can pay for life". Perhaps that's how it worked back in these times as well, but it was very clearly protected knowledge and lost to history. Otherwise you wouldn't have Aerion Brightflame drinking wildfire or the kinds of things implied about the Tragedy of Summerhall with Aegon V.

But if you want way more detail than I can recall on my own right now regarding the genetics theories, here's the start of a video series on it -


The summary being that the gene required to be a dragonrider is X and in order to hatch dragons you need XX, implying that only women can do it. It's a bit of a thought experiment but most of the details in the story kind of line up if you are willing to assume those 2 things. It's farfetched but like I mentioned in another post, several of GRRM's previous works focus on genetics and this kind of thing so it's not necessarily completely out of left field.

I can see that being the case, the dwindling magic making it harder and harder to hatch dragons. And yeah, while that theory probably has more thought put into it then GRRM did, I can see something like that being the case.

 

[terdes]

RIP Raynes and Meleys. Great scene and epic scene it was! I hate Aemond more!

 

[Franz]

 

[Rikudou King]

Even though I knew it was coming, it was still quite sad to see. And as much of a horrible person he is, it was kind of cute seeing Aegon interact with Sunfire.

 

[kkck]

So how did these events play out in the book? I am beginning to find it strange that vhagar is pretty much a ninja dragon. You'd think a dragon the size of a small castle would struggle to sneak up on folk.

 

[Rikudou King]

So how did these events play out in the book? I am beginning to find it strange that vhagar is pretty much a ninja dragon. You'd think a dragon the size of a small castle would struggle to sneak up on folk.

Pretty much the same, except Aegon and Aemond were in on the plan together and attacked at the same time while Rhaenys was distracted killing the soldiers on the ground. And true, though I believe the implications are suppose to be that Aemond was already there hiding in the woods, where no one would expect a dragon to attack from.

 

[kkck]

Pretty much the same, except Aegon and Aemond were in on the plan together and attacked at the same time while Rhaenys was distracted killing the soldiers on the ground. And true, though I believe the implications are suppose to be that Aemond was already there hiding in the woods, where no one would expect a dragon to attack from.

hmmm, my comment was more on how vhagar pretty much manages to sneak up on other dragons. As in, vhagar manages to beat rhaenys' dragon to the castle AND attack from below.

 

[Franz]

So how did these events play out in the book?

Meleys attacks Sunfyre by biting him in the neck and at that point Vhagar attacks from above, smashing all three to the ground.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2024, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2024 ---

Pretty much the same, except Aegon and Aemond were in on the plan together and attacked at the same time while Rhaenys was distracted killing the soldiers on the ground. And true, though I believe the implications are suppose to be that Aemond was already there hiding in the woods, where no one would expect a dragon to attack from.

It must be said that the fact that Aemond only attacks after Aegon is in the clutches of Rhaenys' dragon is suspicious to say the least. It's one thing to let the king play bait, but it's another to let the king be in danger like that. This is not a prudent strategy. Then there are Aemond's words about the crown being better on him...


In the series everything is more explicit, while in the book it can actually seem like it's an accident.

 

[Rikudou King]

hmmm, my comment was more on how vhagar pretty much manages to sneak up on other dragons. As in, vhagar manages to beat rhaenys' dragon to the castle AND attack from below.

Vhagar would have already been there, hiding in the woods. And he got the jump on her due to her fighting Aegon, though given what she did later, even if she saw him ahead of time, she likely would have stayed and attempted to take him down.

It must be said that the fact that Aemond only attacks after Aegon is in the clutches of Rhaenys' dragon is suspicious to say the least. It's one thing to let the king play bait, but it's another to let the king be in danger like that. This is not a prudent strategy. Then there are Aemond's words about the crown being better on him...

In the series everything is more explicit, while in the book it can actually seem like it's an accident.

Not really, seems clear Aemond was aiming for Aegon in the first place given he completely ignored Rhaenys after the initial strike. Aegon wasn't even suppose to be there, remember, he was told to stay back in King's Landing. This whole set up was what Criston and Aemond were talking about a few episodes ago. But after the incident at the brothel, Aemond is pretty much done with Aegon.

 

[M3J]

The show very clearly showed that killing Luke wasn't Aemond's intention, regardless of how cartoonishly villainous he comes off

Okay? He still came off as psychopathic and messed up in the first season as a kid, which is why I'm surprised he's shown remorse and regret.

RIP Raynes and Meleys. Great scene and epic scene it was! I hate Aemond more!

I like Aemond a bit better after seeing how clever he can be

 

[terdes]

I like Aemond a bit better after seeing how clever he can be

agree Aemod is clever. His high Valyrian was great.

 

[xi0]

And curious if these dreams are gonna have an effect on Daemon's future actions.

They will imo, and it'll be seen as the reason why Daemon ends up doing what he ends up doing, rather than him being the "boring" dutiful prince in the book.

I'm assuming it's simply because his dragon should be young, and therefore he's technically wouldn't be considered a dragonrider. Similar to how Rhaenyra's younger children aren't really considered dragonriders even though they have dragons.

He should have a young dragon, but Sunfyre should have been much smaller than he is as well, so I doubt they'll pay attention to this IMO. Given how large Melys is compared to Vhagar, Sunfyre should barely be ridable IMO. I think they'll shirk these kind of logical details for the sake of the story since everyone is much older than they should be.

Daeron is 7 years younger than Aegon II in the book, so it's not exactly the same as Rhaenyra's younger children. Daeron and Jace are born in the same year, so I wouldn't be surprised if they make Daeron similar in age to his brothers for the sake of the plot. Maybe Luke's age at most. But idk, Jace and Luke are only a year apart in the source material and that didn't seem to be the case in the show really.

While the Greens as a group is portrayed this way, they're clearly trying to make things somewhat balance using Alicent. Before Viserys died, she acknowledged Rheaenyra as the future queen and they had made peace, and while she put Aegon on the throne, she showed she wanted to avoid bloodshed. And of course, the recent episode showed she truly believed it and despite learning the truth and wanting to avoid war, she's powerless to do anything to stop events. That said, I would argue that the only real hypocrites are Otto and Cristen from what we've been shown.

It doesn't matter if she wanted to avoid it, not expecting it after what she did is insanely foolish. Her being more directly involved in putting Aegon on the throne instead of Criston Cole makes her character more "sympathetic" maybe, but it also makes her look like a moron IMO. Circling back to our previous convo about her motives, we now know she had no idea about a prophecy either, so her motivation was entirely self interest. Mind you I don't really like Rhaenyra's motivations being the prophecy either, as it's leaving her a bit whitewashed potentially. Will have to see how they handle the upcoming events and whether they really want to paint her in a bad light the way they have no issue doing with Daemon. I just think painting the two female main characters as being far more cautious than they were is kind of trite and boring, though I understand it creates more nuance to the conflict.

Otto this season compared to last season is a bit of an oddity. In the first season he applauds Alicent going after Rhaenyra with a knife, but this season he's supposedly seen as the voice of reason and would never condone a plot to kill Rhaenyra using Arryk...? It's kind of nonsensical.

So how did these events play out in the book? I am beginning to find it strange that vhagar is pretty much a ninja dragon. You'd think a dragon the size of a small castle would struggle to sneak up on folk.

Rhaenys is ambushed, all 3 dragons are tied in a knot in the air, crash to ground and Sunfyre+Aegon are crushed. Aemond being a full-blown kinslayer is kind of a departure from the source. Not that it isn't believable since most of the sources are pro-Green and don't really go out of their way to paint them as the bad guys.

Okay? He still came off as psychopathic and messed up in the first season as a kid, which is why I'm surprised he's shown remorse and regret.

In what way did he come off as a psychopath as a kid? I think you're confusing him with Aegon

 

[M3J]

In what way did he come off as a psychopath as a kid? I think you're confusing him with Aegon

No, because Aemond has one eye, and the things that led to him getting slashed by Luke or one of his siblings.

 

[Rikudou King]

They will imo, and it'll be seen as the reason why Daemon ends up doing what he ends up doing, rather than him being the "boring" dutiful prince in the book.

I know the end results, but I'm curious if this will result in new/non-book events happening. So far they have delayed and mixed around events, and it doesn't seem like the taking of King's Landing will happen anytime soon. With the emphasis on the prophecy and magic, I would if we will be given more overt examples.

He should have a young dragon, but Sunfyre should have been much smaller than he is as well, so I doubt they'll pay attention to this IMO. Given how large Melys is compared to Vhagar, Sunfyre should barely be ridable IMO. I think they'll shirk these kind of logical details for the sake of the story since everyone is much older than they should be.

Daeron is 7 years younger than Aegon II in the book, so it's not exactly the same as Rhaenyra's younger children. Daeron and Jace are born in the same year, so I wouldn't be surprised if they make Daeron similar in age to his brothers for the sake of the plot. Maybe Luke's age at most. But idk, Jace and Luke are only a year apart in the source material and that didn't seem to be the case in the show really.

My presumption could be wrong, but I was assuming he was between 10 and 12, given he must have been born and raised during the timeskip period between episode 6/7 and episode 8. And I'm guessing they're continuing with the idea that the dragons grow fast to adulthood. Afterall, didn't Dany's dragons reach a huge size in under a decade?

It doesn't matter if she wanted to avoid it, not expecting it after what she did is insanely foolish. Her being more directly involved in putting Aegon on the throne instead of Criston Cole makes her character more "sympathetic" maybe, but it also makes her look like a moron IMO. Circling back to our previous convo about her motives, we now know she had no idea about a prophecy either, so her motivation was entirely self interest. Mind you I don't really like Rhaenyra's motivations being the prophecy either, as it's leaving her a bit whitewashed potentially. Will have to see how they handle the upcoming events and whether they really want to paint her in a bad light the way they have no issue doing with Daemon. I just think painting the two female main characters as being far more cautious than they were is kind of trite and boring, though I understand it creates more nuance to the conflict.

Otto this season compared to last season is a bit of an oddity. In the first season he applauds Alicent going after Rhaenyra with a knife, but this season he's supposedly seen as the voice of reason and would never condone a plot to kill Rhaenyra using Arryk...? It's kind of nonsensical.

I take it more as naive, because she was trying to honor what she thought Viserys last wishes were, shown in direct comparison to Otto and the councils' plotting. Well we saw she mistook the meaning of the prophecy to be about her Aegon, and when informed that was wrong, it did make her start regretting her actions to the point of looking for more information and lashing out at Aegon. And while there is a bit of whitewashing, I think the point is to enhance the tragedy of events. It's a lot more meaningful when something bad happens to someone trying to do the right thing, then something bad happening to someone being selfish.

I believe Otto's issue was merely sending a single knight. When he gave a similar order, he wanted a team of knights to do so, because obviously it would increase the odds and it wouldn't just be Rhaenyra who would have to be eliminated. If her sons and Daemon weren't dealt with too, then the fight for the throne would continue even with her death.

 

[terdes]

Btw the connection between Aegon and his dragon is so strong. Love it in the last episode. And Alys Rivers with Daemon reminds me the Witcher with Yenifer. lol

 

[xi0]

No, because Aemond has one eye, and the things that led to him getting slashed by Luke or one of his siblings.

I mean, his crime was claiming Vhagar and being a sniveling little bitch with Daemon's daughters. But that's it. Not necessarily anything "psychopathic" imo.

I know the end results, but I'm curious if this will result in new/non-book events happening. So far they have delayed and mixed around events, and it doesn't seem like the taking of King's Landing will happen anytime soon. With the emphasis on the prophecy and magic, I would if we will be given more overt examples.

Idk, I just hope his dilemma and apparently aspirations to take Rhaenyra's crown isn't what takes the place of the drama with Nettles. I imagine there will be more non-book stuff happening if major events involving him aren't happening until season 3 at least.

My presumption could be wrong, but I was assuming he was between 10 and 12, given he must have been born and raised during the timeskip period between episode 6/7 and episode 8. And I'm guessing they're continuing with the idea that the dragons grow fast to adulthood. Afterall, didn't Dany's dragons reach a huge size in under a decade?

Given that they haven't bothered to mention him by name until now, I'm not necessarily certain that he must be between 10-12. For the sake of his role in the story him being closer in age to Jace makes more sense IMO. I think they just kind of fucked up acting like he didn't exist until now, not sure.

I take it more as naive, because she was trying to honor what she thought Viserys last wishes were, shown in direct comparison to Otto and the councils' plotting. Well we saw she mistook the meaning of the prophecy to be about her Aegon, and when informed that was wrong, it did make her start regretting her actions to the point of looking for more information and lashing out at Aegon. And while there is a bit of whitewashing, I think the point is to enhance the tragedy of events. It's a lot more meaningful when something bad happens to someone trying to do the right thing, then something bad happening to someone being selfish.

I believe Otto's issue was merely sending a single knight. When he gave a similar order, he wanted a team of knights to do so, because obviously it would increase the odds and it wouldn't just be Rhaenyra who would have to be eliminated. If her sons and Daemon weren't dealt with too, then the fight for the throne would continue even with her death.

Alicent is quickly becoming a character that I sort of resent. The actress is great, but her writing is kind of abysmal.

Her lashing out at Aegon felt very forced IMO. It kind of came from nowhere and seemed to only exist to push Aegon to do what he did with Sunfyre. The things she said about the people he should take council from made no sense. We already know for a fact that she doesn't respect Cole or Aemond's "wisdom" and they haven't earned their positions at all either. We know Aegon is a moron, but her words there were equally nonsensical. While the battle scene was mostly great, the events that led up to it really fall apart under closer scrutiny.

 

[terdes]

today's episode were good. Baella was so good. Like her line. Daimon and his coward visions And I like Rhaenyra this season. About greens Alicent were great.