Discussion If Sanji deserves Conqueror’s Haki, then Jinbe deserves it too.

[Lord Rayleigh]

@electricmastro Please do the same exercise for Jinbe to justify your claim.

Arguments for Sanji to have King’s Haki

• He is part of the Monster Trio who have always been stated to be out of ordinary and Luffy and Zoro both have it
• He is a wing of Luffy and the wings of Roger both had Haoushoku Haki
• He is born within Vinsmoke family which is the most famous family of conquerors within the North Blue
• He is the only Vinsmoke son who didn’t lose his free will and emotions out of the quadruplets
• He is the only Vinsmoke child who prevented his altered lineage factor genes to activate until Onigashima battle
• He has been constantly fighting Zoro which is a trait characteristic of COC users that tend to fight against each other even within a same organization
• He refuses to beat women even at the expense of his life. Refusal until death is characteristic of a King Haki user
• He has been pretty intimidating and threatening with enemies
• Obvious plot requirement for the late game battles

 

[kkck]

TBH I kinda get the sense that Jinbe is probably too selfless to be a conqueror. I've been trying to nail down who in the story has the qualities of a king and where my mind went is luffy's talk about heroes at Dressrosa. Something something about him not wanting to be a hero because he then has to share his meat while he would rather eat it. I think conquerors are people for whom this makes sense whereas for non conquerors the alternative would be more logical. Conquerors are people who are unapologetically themselves and for the most part put their own interests first. Jinbe in turn is a character who is at his core selfless and his motivations through his life have been selfless.

 

[Buulord]

TBH I kinda get the sense that Jinbe is probably too selfless to be a conqueror. I've been trying to nail down who in the story has the qualities of a king and where my mind went is luffy's talk about heroes at Dressrosa. Something something about him not wanting to be a hero because he then has to share his meat while he would rather eat it. I think conquerors are people for whom this makes sense whereas for non conquerors the alternative would be more logical. Conquerors are people who are unapologetically themselves and for the most part put their own interests first. Jinbe in turn is a character who is at his core selfless and his motivations through his life have been selfless.

I think that’s a great way of looking at it and given the recent chapter, and that is probably part of why Sanji doesn’t have Conquerors Haki now.

 

[electricmastro]

TBH I kinda get the sense that Jinbe is probably too selfless to be a conqueror. I've been trying to nail down who in the story has the qualities of a king and where my mind went is luffy's talk about heroes at Dressrosa. Something something about him not wanting to be a hero because he then has to share his meat while he would rather eat it. I think conquerors are people for whom this makes sense whereas for non conquerors the alternative would be more logical. Conquerors are people who are unapologetically themselves and for the most part put their own interests first. Jinbe in turn is a character who is at his core selfless and his motivations through his life have been selfless.

As if to say Luffy and the others don’t have selflessness too? Or are they just selfish?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2026, Original Post Date: Jul 10, 2026 ---

You seem to be very offended that Sanji likely will be above Jinbei or be considered on an even plane with Zoro again.

Reminds me of when there were people who hated Sanji and made up all sorts of illogical arguments and points against him, years ago.

I’m not offended. I could say the exact same thing about you and it would mean just as much.

So if you hate Jinbe and hate the idea of him having Conqueror because he damages your fanfare of Sanji, then just say it. It’s ok. lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2026 ---

@electricmastro Please do the same exercise for Jinbe to justify your claim.

Jinbe is a knight of the sea, one of Luffy’s big three who held back an Admiral and saved Zoro from Lucci, as well as being positioned as Luffy’s #3.

That’s all you need to know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2026 ---

Well, that is clearly an opinion that Oda would not agree with, especially with what is happening in this current arc. Weather or nor you like the Wings of the Pirate ideea, it is here, reinforced more than ever in Elbaf, not one is gonna replace Zoro or Sanji as Luffy's main combatants.

When did I say Jinbe would replace them?

Does that mean you hold Jinbe up that high in consideration?

Interesting to know…

 

[kkck]

As if to say Luffy and the others don’t have selflessness too? Or are they just selfish?

Without taking it to an absolutist extreme, sort of. Compared to zoro and luffy, jinbe would most likely prefer to share his meat.

 

[electricmastro]

Without taking it to an absolutist extreme, sort of. Compared to zoro and luffy, jinbe would most likely prefer to share his meat.

I mean, Jinbe literally left behind Fishman Island even though it has been ravaged by slavetraders seeking to kidnap fishmen and mermaids to sell as slaves.

From a certain point of view, that looks pretty selfish.

 

[M3J]

I’m not offended. I could say the exact same thing about you and it would mean just as much.

So if you hate Jinbe and hate the idea of him having Conqueror because he damages your fanfare of Sanji, then just say it. It’s ok. lol

But you're the one who brought up Sanji. No, "if Zoro has it then Jinbei should too! " but "If Sanji has it, then Jinbei should as well!"

 

[Battle Wolf]

You know, to have a conqueror haki you should at least want to conquer something, that's what Gaban said do Sanji.

Zoro wants to be the biggest swordman in the world, Sanji wants to find all blue (still lack of will to it, as not fighting woman, that's why he still don't have it), and Jinbe? He only wants to follow Luffy cause Ace asked him to... To me, he still lack of an real goal he want to achieve so he can conquer it and develop conqueror haki.

 

[kkck]

An idea I've occasionally entertained is that maybe the framing given by the story about the rarity of conqueror haki might be wrong. So far the story treats it as something innate or something you are born with. Which might seem to be the case to be the case on a subject which hasn't been studied scientifically. Or perhaps simply can't be studied. But I wonder if conqueror haki is like all haki, everyone is simply born with it. But the actual rarity is not people being born with it but rather having the right frame of mind to ever use it. In effect it wouldn't change the amount of people who can use it but it's a dramatically different context from not being able to use it simply because you weren't born with it.

 

[Tonix]

It would make sense for him to have it, but he’s also just kind of been content to be subservient to someone else his whole life and doesn’t seem to really have a goal.

All the other Strawhats are working towards something, but Jinbei is just kind of there backing them up. What’s his dream?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's not a matter of deserving, King's Haki is genetic.
It's like saying that because someone is 6 feet tall, this other person "deserves" to be 6 feet tall too.
Genetics are not deserved, you get what you get, King's Haki is the same.

 

[Tonix]

It's not a matter of deserving, King's Haki is genetic.
It's like saying that because someone is 6 feet tall, this other person "deserves" to be 6 feet tall too.
Genetics are not deserved, you get what you get, King's Haki is the same.

We haven’t seen anything to suggest that CoC is genetic. Boa’s sisters don’t have it. None of Sanji’s family has it. The only one of Big Mom’s kids shown to have it was Katakuri.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

We haven’t seen anything to suggest that CoC is genetic. Boa’s sisters don’t have it. None of Sanji’s family has it. The only one of Big Mom’s kids shown to have it was Katakuri.

Garp says so he was born with it too. It suggests it is genetic... you can't have something that is attributed to birth if it isn't genetic.

Again, he's the son... why does that matter? Because it's genetic. No one says you're the son/child of someone without it meaning genetics. "Like father like son" - the son is like the father not out of choice, but due to genetics.

"the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" is an idiom that also refers to inheriting something from a family member. Again, implying genetics.

The reason why you can't TRAIN to have King's Haki is because you're either born with it or not.

Armament and Observation is something that everyone can do, only there are different levels of talent, and this is why some people never use it because they never get trained to learn to use it, nor do they have a high aptitude for it.

It's like being tall enough to be an NBA player. You can't choose or train to be 6 foot 6, you're either born to be that tall, or not. Why? Genes. Like Haki, you can't choose to be 6 foot 6 anymore than you can choose to be a King's Haki user.

There's a lot that suggests if not outright telling us it is genetic, seems you just missed the cues.

We haven’t seen anything to suggest that CoC is genetic. Boa’s sisters don’t have it. None of Sanji’s family has it. The only one of Big Mom’s kids shown to have it was Katakuri.

It's like saying that because your father is 6 foot 4, and you're 5 foot 8, that tall genes don't run in the family because "YOU" didn't get to be tall. The genes are there, it just didn't show up for you.

Boa's sisters not having it is irrelevant, it just means they didn't win the genetic lottery, Hancock did, that's the point. That's how genes work. You don't choose what genes you get from your parents.

Go figure, Katakuri has it, his MOTHER also has it, that's how genetics work. He inherited it... doesn't mean everyone in the family will also inherit it too.

Something being genetic doesn't mean EVERYONE in the family line will have it, it just means the gene is there. It's something that can express itself potentially every time a child is born.

There are people who look EXACTLY like relatives from 80 years ago (e.g. great great grandparents), why? Genes. It may have skipped multiple generations, but genes don't disappear, they just either appear or do not in a family member.

There's a reason why King's Haki is 1 in a million and not something that can be trained - Genes work exactly like that.

This is why the WG wanted to kill Ace, because Roger was the strongest King's Haki user and became the Pirate King, they feared that if they let Ace mature further, he'd awaken his King's Haki as far as Roger did and find the One Piece.

There's no other explanation either for why Kings' Haki isn't something you can train, but the others can be.

 

[Tonix]

You know you can just admit you’re wrong instead of doubling down and highlighting panels that don’t actually prove the point you’re trying to make right?

Why are you always so hellbent on making a fool of yourself?

 

[kkck]

Hmm, there's probably some wiggle room for whether CoC is genetic or not considering it's sheer rarity. Something like people just assume you are born with it over how few people have it when in reality the key to it is having the disposition of a king. However even on the off chance this is the case I wouldn't expect the manga to actually tackle this. It seems like such a marginal change to go from "you have to be born with conqueror haki" to "you need a state of mind only one in a million people have to use conqueror haki". Maybe SBS stuff.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You know you can just admit you’re wrong instead of doubling down and highlighting panels that don’t actually prove the point you’re trying to make right?

Why are you always so hellbent on making a fool of yourself?

They prove I am right, you just have to be delusional to say otherwise in front of evidence. Take your own advice bud.

What about being "born" with something doesn't prove King's Haki is something you're either born with or not? It's ironic how you lose the ability to comprehend English when it's convenient.

Even if you don't believe it, you said there was "NO HINT"... well the Manga said "Born with it too"... if that's not a hint at the very least, you're simply making a fool out of yourself. Again, displaying your inability to understand words when it's convenient.

And I have had words with you before, I don't comment on your ignorant comments to prove anything to you, it's so others can see the evidence for themselves rather than choose to stay proudly ignorant.

 

[Tonix]

They prove I am right,

They don’t.

Picking and choosing certain panels and then having fun coloring them in while you ignore everything that contradicts the argument you’re trying to make doesn’t make you right.

You might be a masturbator, but you’re not the master debater you think you are.

 

[Core D. Roy]

omfg you're both equally wrong- we only know two certain things: the capability of unlocking conqueror's haki CAN be genetic, but it does absolutely require the 'disposition of a king'. Until we get a real concrete answer about what CoC actually is Rayleigh's explanation was vague enough that Oda left room for it to not necessarily be some genetic absolute, just that it's more likely for characters whose parents can use it that they too are capable

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

omfg you're both equally wrong- we only know two certain things: the capability of unlocking conqueror's haki CAN be genetic, but it does absolutely require the 'disposition of a king'. Until we get a real concrete answer about what CoC actually is Rayleigh's explanation was vague enough that Oda left room for it to not necessarily be some genetic absolute, just that it's more likely for characters whose parents can use it that they too are capable

It is genetic, it's why you can't train to have it unless you already possess it or were born with it, There is no other explanation for it.
It's not a personality thing, anyone can develop a personality.... one can be brainwashed into "kingly disposition" whatever that is supposed to mean. It wouldn't be one in a million to possess Haki if all it required was being an arrogant asshole - it's why people think Crocodile should have it.
When people say "this character should have King's Haki", they're just saying he's arrogant, or he's charismatic, or wouldn't be a subordinate to someone else - we've all seen none of this accounts for King's Haki - we have them in the Navy too.

And just being born with it also doesn't mean you will be able to use it.
Like Rayleigh said, everyone has Observation and Armament Haki, but not everyone in life will ever use it because they don't have the talent to learn it.
Some even train their entire lives and never get to use it, simply due to talent.
It's a matter of being born with first of all, and then there is the level of talent that will determine if they can unlock their latent talent to begin with, how much training it will take to master it, and how strong it can become.

This disposition of a king thing is a non-factor, all that means is people who are great at things or have talent to do things others can't tend to be arrogant. This is why At Amazon Lily, Gloriosa said "someone with King's Haki would bow so easily?"; it has nothing to do with disposition, it's to do with the association about those who are born with great power or simply possess great power.

There's no such thing as unlocking King's Haki, you either are born with it, or are not - and again, Garp said he was born with it - that much no one can deny no matter how much they want to.

No one in their right mind can say genetics wouldn't explain why some people have it, or don't have it. Until you have some other explanation from the Manga, then go ahead and please provide the evidence.

but it does absolutely require the 'disposition of a king'

Complete wrong, Katakuri? What disposition is this? Eating Donuts?

What Gaban was saying to Sanji is most likely to do with a confidence thing, Sanji has issues accepting himself due to his lineage and is probably holding himself back subconsciously.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I'm not reading any of that before the thing about Katakuri, I already answered every argument you made, you just can't not do an elaborate "nu uh!" if you disagree with something.

Complete wrong, Katakuri? What disposition is this? Eating Donuts?

He's functionally the captain of the crew, he is The Big Brother.