Discussion The Fight You Want To See That'll Never Happen

[Core D. Roy]

Mine is King vs. Katakuri. I know Oda portrayed Big Mom and Kaidou as relative equals but it also feels like it applies to their respective #1's. I doubt he did this directly on purpose but in a protracted fight, I honestly feel like King and Katakuri would stalemate the exact same way their captains did.

Katakuri has a huge haki advantage, but! He'd likely have to learn CoC infusion on the fly the same way Zoro did (which I'm 100% sure Katakuri could do, but I'm not sure if he has the same ridiculous stamina Zoro has), and we saw that sheer speed is a weakness of futuresight (although it might have been moreso the unpredictability of Python's wacky angles disrupting Kata's futuresight).

Likewise King has a huge biological advantage with lunarian physiology just being like the New World equivalent of upping the stakes as fishmen were described in East Blue. Much like the CoC infusion thing it'd be a learning curve for Katakuri to figure out the lunarian gimmick but I'm pretty sure he'd figure it out a *lot* faster than most Dumb Dork upper-tiers like Zoro.

 

[M3J]

Xebec vs. Luffy
Roger vs. Luffy

Akainu vs. Xebec

 

[kkck]

TBH I want mihawks and shanks to officially and conclusively settle their rivalry. And then for zoro to defeat the winner. I suppose something like this happening is not too impossible though.

A more impossible matchup which I'd want for power scaling purposes is doflamingo vs anyone in the sweet commanders or the all stars.

King vs katakuri would be fun but I think people vastly overestimate katakuri and his foresight. Not that it isn't a powerful ability but a fighting in katakuri's tier would simply be able to manage it. Add to that, king is a much dirtier fighter, has absurd lunarian physiology which allows him to switch between absurd defense and absurd speed. Zoro won but part of his victory was due to to his haki getting to a point where even in defense mode king was dodging attacks. Nothing we saw from katakuri during WCI arc appears to be enough to get through king's defense mode.

 

[Core D. Roy]

A more impossible matchup which I'd want for power scaling purposes is doflamingo vs anyone in the sweet commanders or the all stars.

Doffy is smack dab in the middle of the hardest mfers in the series to powerscale. I do put him square between King and Queen though. Queen's dirty tricks just ain't gonna cut it against Doffy but King is just overwhelmingly fast and powerful in a way I can't imagine Doffy dealing with very long.

King vs katakuri would be fun but I think people vastly overestimate katakuri and his foresight. Not that it isn't a powerful ability but a fighting in katakuri's tier would simply be able to manage it. Add to that, king is a much dirtier fighter, has absurd lunarian physiology which allows him to switch between absurd defense and absurd speed. Zoro won but part of his victory was due to to his haki getting to a point where even in defense mode king was dodging attacks. Nothing we saw from katakuri during WCI arc appears to be enough to get through king's defense mode.

I feel the same about people underestimating Katakuri. Luffy only managed to claw his way up to Katakuri's level by spontaneously learning futuresight as a counter to futuresight, which King almost certainly isn't doing. King's lunarian gimmick is only as strong as his enemy is imperceptive, and if Zoro was able to figure it out mid-fight there's zero reason to believe Katakuri won't figure it out even faster, even without futuresight. The only real question mark I can see for the win condition is if Katakuri has the actual firepower to finish the job, though it doesn't seem like Katakuri is particularly monster-durable outside of his defense mode.

Idk, how many characters have we seen without futuresight fight a character *with* futuresight and walk away victorious? It's an absurd advantage, only somebody clearly higher up in S-tiers would be able to comfortably tackle Katakuri I think. Unless they're somebody like Caesar whose ability is exactly as effective as the author needs it to be any given moment

 

[kkck]

Doffy is smack dab in the middle of the hardest mfers in the series to powerscale. I do put him square between King and Queen though. Queen's dirty tricks just ain't gonna cut it against Doffy but King is just overwhelmingly fast and powerful in a way I can't imagine Doffy dealing with very long.



I feel the same about people underestimating Katakuri. Luffy only managed to claw his way up to Katakuri's level by spontaneously learning futuresight as a counter to futuresight, which King almost certainly isn't doing. King's lunarian gimmick is only as strong as his enemy is imperceptive, and if Zoro was able to figure it out mid-fight there's zero reason to believe Katakuri won't figure it out even faster, even without futuresight. The only real question mark I can see for the win condition is if Katakuri has the actual firepower to finish the job, though it doesn't seem like Katakuri is particularly monster-durable outside of his defense mode.

Idk, how many characters have we seen without futuresight fight a character *with* futuresight and walk away victorious? It's an absurd advantage, only somebody clearly higher up in S-tiers would be able to comfortably tackle Katakuri I think. Unless they're somebody like Caesar whose ability is exactly as effective as the author needs it to be any given moment

hmmm, assuming I am understanding your table correctly there's a few characters I don't agree with. Yassop and queen being beneath doflamingo would be a big one. I am sure enel will have a powerup but as he was at skypeia (no competence at armor haki) I can't imagine him holding a candle to even middle of the road fighters in the new world. Obviously when he gloriously returns he will be power scaled to the new world. Magellan I see as a toincoss. His overall combat capacity was not even high enough to overwhelm pre time skip luffy. But since his ability is poison and that can't be fought of with physical strength, haki or sheer balls he can potentially kill anyone. What he did to BB's crew he could probably do to kaido or big mom. Jozu being all the way down at B is a travesty. Marco, jozu and vista are some of the few folk in the planet who can hold back an admiral at full power for any amount of time. The 3 of them need to be above king and katakuri. Comfortably at that. This is a point i've made in other threads but the most likely scenario is that WB's commanders stand out significantly from that of kaido or big mom. From a power scaling perspective the new world saga confirms over and over that admirals are on par with yonko. They are veritable monsters with powerful fruits and supremely skilled at martial arts and haki. To actually grasp the sheer, abject insanity of the marineford war it's better to imagine the marine's side as having 3 kaidos rather than 3 admirals. That's what the WB pirates fought while not even having the home field advantage. I would also maintain that cracker easily outperformed doflamingo when fighting gear 4 luffy. Luffy commented on cracker's particularly powerful haki at the time. Let alone that luffy's gear 4 speed was enough to overwhelm doflamingo but cracker was able to fight luffy in CqC while being basically a glass cannon.

There's no doubt that luffy won against katakuri through copious amounts of BS via numerous powerups in a single fight. However with king the reasoning for the fight is different, he is simply strong.

 

[Tonix]

I don’t think King really has a chance against Katakuri. Luffy and Zoro being kind of equals in strength went out the window after the timeskip. Luffy was much stronger than Zoro by WCI and just barely clawed out a win against Katakuri. King struggling and losing to a weaker opponent makes me think he’s not really on Katakuri’s level.

Kaido and Big Mom might have been equals, but the Big Mom pirates would dunk on the Beast pirates in a straight up fight. Especially if they were fighting on WCI.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2026, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2026 ---

The never going to happen fight I’d like to see is Boa vs Smoothie, or just any serious fight involving one of them.

 

[kkck]

Zoro won against king because his nonsensical haki training with enma gave him the capacity to momentarily punch (erh, slash) at the yonko level. Zoro was just plain stronger than king.

 

[white_light]

Maybe I'm massively overrating future sight but I kinda don't see a win condition for King in a fight against Katakuri. I don't see Zoro win against Katakuri either for similar reasons.
Interestingly enough, I could see current Sanji win against Katakuri because he's way better equipped to deal with him, mainly because he's starting to become the fastest man alive. lmao

 

[kkck]

Zoro wins against katakuri pretty easily: He slashes really hard and katakuri gets slashed. Futuresight is not necessarily a prerequisite to win against katakuri, the guy just got powercreeped during wano as far as the monster trio is concerned.

 

[white_light]

Zoro wins against katakuri pretty easily: He slashes really hard and katakuri gets slashed. Futuresight is not necessarily a prerequisite to win against katakuri, the guy just got powercreeped during wano as far as the monster trio is concerned.

Okay but, how is Zoro gonna hit a dude who avoids hits like Luffy's armament haki gatlings by being a pseudo mochi logia through future sight? Zoro can't use future sight like Luffy and I doubt he could ragebait Katakuri into not using it.

This is like how Zoro can't just 'slash harder' at Buggy.

 

[kkck]

Okay but, how is Zoro gonna hit a dude who avoids hits like Luffy's armament haki gatlings by being a pseudo mochi logia through future sight? Zoro can't use future sight like Luffy and I doubt he could ragebait Katakuri into not using it.

This is like how Zoro can't just 'slash harder' at Buggy.

It's not quite the same because buggy is literally invulnerable to slashes. It's not even futuresight that makes katakuri a pseudologia, his fruit works like most logia but with mochi. His futuresight just allows him to carefully dodge attacks. The original admirals do this as well.

Wano simply was a huge powercreep arc for the strawhats. When the arc started G4 luffy got speedblitz by kaido and taken out in a single hit. Later on in the arc base luffy was able to trade blows with kaido in base form. Zoro is a characters that scales closer to admirals than he does to kaido or big mom executives. And we have seen how big such a breach can be. Kaido was a massive threat to the strawhats forces in the event luffy was defeated. Aramaki took out kaido's forces and the scabbards in a day. Kuzan wrecked an entire island in big mom's kingdom by himself. Zoro has some wonky nonsense when it comes to his full power but it's still closer to yonko than to lesser executives like kaido's or big mom's. Even lucci was content to merely stall zoro. Even for speed feats you can look at lucci... Who has a fruit that is excellent and speed and zoro didn't struggle with it at all.

 

[white_light]

Hm, still can't see it. And honestly I think you are overrating Zoro quite a bit.

Though I do hope Katakuri comes back some day because I wanna see how he holds up in general when he gets some juicy modern powercreep.

 

[WILDCARD 1 7]

since we're talking about King and Katakuri I think we can throw a Rob in there as well. Not saying he'll beat but I think you can make a case for it.
Then there's the obvious ones like (prime) old gen vs current new gen ( Roger vs Shanks, Akauinu vs Garp or Sengoku, Dragon vs Xebec) and battle of Luffy's dads (Dragon vs Shanks) Loki vs og emperors.

 

[kkck]

Lucci was able to survive quite a few hits from G5 luffy so to me he seems stronger than king or katakuri. No idea of how he holds up against, say, marco though.

 

[Tonix]

Lucci was able to survive quite a few hits from G5 luffy so to me he seems stronger than king or katakuri. No idea of how he holds up against, say, marco though.

I’m not sure that’s an adequate thing to use as a power scale. G5 Luffy has never one shot anyone (or at least not anyone important enough for me to remember.)

It was a very clearly one sided fight which Luffy was very clearly never in doubt of winning.

Lucci has been put on Smoker and Crocodile tier now. Just a former enemy who used to be scary but now poses no any real threat.

 

[Core D. Roy]

since we're talking about King and Katakuri I think we can throw a Rob in there as well. Not saying he'll beat but I think you can make a case for it.
Then there's the obvious ones like (prime) old gen vs current new gen ( Roger vs Shanks, Akauinu vs Garp or Sengoku, Dragon vs Xebec) and battle of Luffy's dads (Dragon vs Shanks) Loki vs og emperors.

The problem with Lucci is that he has zero utility outside the six whatever moves, he's just fast and strong and easily provoked. King and Katakuri have toolsets- and mindsets- that set them WAY apart in a 1v1 situation, even though otherwise I do technically have Lucci right next to them. He's just a bad matchup for most higher tier fighters, any gimmick is better than no gimmick brawler unless you're like Roger/Garp/Rocks/Harald-level.

 

[WILDCARD 1 7]

The problem with Lucci is that he has zero utility outside the six whatever moves, he's just fast and strong and easily provoked. King and Katakuri have toolsets- and mindsets- that set them WAY apart in a 1v1 situation, even though otherwise I do technically have Lucci right next to them. He's just a bad matchup for most higher tier fighters, any gimmick is better than no gimmick brawler unless you're like Roger/Garp/Rocks/Harald-level.

Actually you could argue those traits are exactly why I'd be a good matchup for these two.
As for mindset he actually is highly intelligent as he broke down G2 Luffy just off sight.
But really it's just I want to see how his rather simple Awakening would handle their more unique abilities King specifically. Besides we would find out if Kings lunarian abilities make for his lack of awakening (I remember that conversation that when Rob showed his awakening but the beast pirates hadn't)

 

[Tonix]

The problem with Lucci is that he has zero utility outside the six whatever moves, he's just fast and strong and easily provoked. King and Katakuri have toolsets- and mindsets- that set them WAY apart in a 1v1 situation, even though otherwise I do technically have Lucci right next to them. He's just a bad matchup for most higher tier fighters, any gimmick is better than no gimmick brawler unless you're like Roger/Garp/Rocks/Harald-level.

I mean, Sanji just moves really fast and kicks really hard but he seems to do ok.

Lucci undoubtedly got stronger during the timeskip but he just didn’t get strong enough and everyone else got more of a power up. I think he would have easily beaten most of the other Super Novas besides Bonney and Law due to their busted DF’s, but now I think he would only be able to stomp Hawkins, because Lucci wouldn’t hesitate over the voodoo dolls, and maybe beat Drake and Bege with very high effort. Even Coby would probably be able to give him a run for his money now.


Lucci got hit hard with the Smoker treatment. They both went from Oh shit it’s HIM status to Oh it’s just him status.

 

[kkck]

Rokushiki is a whole ass martial art. Saying he has little utility is because he only uses it is like saying zoro has zero utility because he only uses swords. Considering Lucci was able to actually take hits from luffy and held his own against zoro for a bit I'd rate him in the ballpark or higher than king/katakuri.

 

[Tonix]

He was able to take some hits from Luffy and didn’t immediately get taken out by Zoro but he wasn’t really able to do anything to either of them and all it took was Sanji pissing Zoro off for Zoro to take him out before walking away from the fight uninjured, which he didn’t do against King and I doubt he could do against Katakuri. Lucci seems to be a bit under YC/Warlord/Super Nova but definitely above VA right now.

He definitely loses to the monster trio and Jimbei, but he’d have to put in actual effort to beat the rest of the Strawhats too.

Given how Usopp can apparently just shoot mini nukes now, I’d bet on him if he got to prep time it like he did for his duel with Luffy. And Nami has Zeus now. Both of them just need to not die long enough to get one shot in. Nami has her mirages for that and Usopp has his legendary ability to take a beating and get back up.

Franky has his actual iron body, his mech, and his new super cola, so that’s kind of a toss up.

Speed doesn’t matter to Robin as we saw with Cavendish, so it comes down to if she’s strong enough to hurt him.

Chopper I think would be a draw or high dif win for Lucci.

Brook I think loses because he doesn’t really have anything to counter Lucci. He’s fast but he’s not Sanji fast, and he’s a good swordsman but he’s not Zoro good, and his DF powers aren’t a good matchup.