Chapter Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Chapter 253 Spoilers & Discussion

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Because I'm starting to think that chaos might end up being the ultimate villain......

Why ? , what's in the new chapter that implies this ?

 

[Vortigern]

Cool chapter. It seems like Dubs is only touching up the KotA's current weapons with Arthur's blood instead of making entirely new armaments for the group. This makes sense given that he'd have to physically examine Lancelot in order to forge an ST for the guy, and like I've said before it feels too early for Tristan to get an ST right now given the messy state of his powers. The fact that Lancelot is getting a blood-enhanced spear made for him while he's still corrupted suggests that the heroes will probably end up fighting Cath immediately after this current situation has been resolved. Is this where the spear shown in Guinevere's prophecy will come in? Arthur is also now wearing the suit of armor Cath wore in the vision so it looks like the same elements are still going to appear but under different circumstances, which is quite interesting. Excalibur should show up soon too. I've always wanted Lancelot's ST to resemble the spear he crafted in his one-shot so I certainly wouldn't mind if it turns out that the spear in the vision was not foreshadowing his ST after all. The latter weapon could still be important though, because this anti-Chaos property is presumably not limited to just Cath. If any future villain were to get their hands on it then Arthur's life would be in danger. The same thing goes for the Dragon Handle sword if that is the longsword that Dubs mentioned.

Moving on, the Perils training the KotA is a bit weird. Balin said that Cath robbed his henchmen of all their Chaos power so they should be on the level of normal holy knights now. It's a little ridiculous how Nakaba establishes that Chaos-Lancelot is currently stronger than the DK and then follows that up by suggesting the human Perils can train the other KotA to be able to match Lancelot, but I guess this just ties into what I've said about empty hype. Defeating Lancelot is probably going to be way easier in practice than on paper. My feelings on this Peril training session are mixed. It's good that Nakaba is incorporating them into the conflict in some way after how much time he spent on building them up since this way all that development won't have been totally wasted. However, at the same time the three KotA getting their rematch against these enemies that previously defeated them would have worked way better if it had happened during a serious battle instead of in the context of a friendly sparring match, especially when it comes to Percival's entire series long feud with his "father", so this just comes across as a somewhat lackluster method to tie up glaring loose ends.

You could rectify some of the issues I brought up just now by having Merlin set up a magical simulation of some sort that allows the Perils to access their Chaos powers again within that virtual environment. That way the KotA could fight the exact versions of the Perils that Lancelot gave them tips to overcome earlier, which would tie everything together nicely since Lancelot would essentially be helping his comrades with the training they need in order to take him down. As I've said before, I could see Galahad acting as a temporary replacement for Lancelot and fighting Beltreipe whose magic was stated to be a difficult match-up for Percival, Tristan and Gawain. With Galahad things are different because the ability to slice through pretty much anything isn't that useful if you've been robbed of all your senses and don't know where to strike. He's an excellent counter. The other kids can help by giving the KotA tips about their future powers to speed up their growth, which is necessary given that Lancelot has apparently already finished destroying Camelot and should be coming for Britannia sooner rather than later. The good guys don't have much time to prepare for this upcoming battle.

This is unrelated to the chapter but while skimming through the previous thread the mention of Nasiens and Kardeiz having the same pendant caught my eye. It's a relatively common element in stories involving time travel or parallel dimensions that two copies of one entity cannot exist simultaneously, with the interaction of such duplicates often resulting in one or both being deleted from existence. Could it be that the reason why Nakaba postponed the meeting between Percival's kids and their mothers is because that encounter will later be used to establish an important future plot point via their pendants? If Nasiens and Kardeiz having discount spirit spears is critical for their fighting styles then you could achieve the same outcome with just the chains of the necklaces as well while leaving the Chastiefol fragments intact, perhaps because they were temporarily detached for cleaning or whatever.

I think he did. He didn't check Tristan so he and Lancelot must have visited him before the mission.

I disagree. Dubs says that he's going to "refurbish" Tristan's sword, the word meaning to rebuild or to freshen up. That's something you do with an old and worn down weapon, not a brand new one that we haven't even seen yet. And why would Tristan's ST be just a singular sword when he's been dual-wielding this entire time? I think it makes way more sense for Dubs to be referring to the Dragon Handle sword that was recently broken by Ysaie. Dubs will fix and enhance that so that Tristan can go back to wielding two swords again. The Lancelot stuff also reinforces this idea. Remember how excited Dubs was about the idea of crafting a weapon for Lancelot after hearing that his power is too much for normal weapons? If Dubs had already examined Lancelot a few days ago then why is it that he hasn't even started working on this project he was so interested in before? He even has to confirm with the KotA whether a spear would be fine with Lancelot even though he knew exactly what kind of weapons to make for Percival and co. after examining them. Either Dubs hit his own version of writer's block and lost interest in Lancelot's ST or he hasn't even examined the boy yet. My money is on the latter.

 

[Yakkun]

Great chapter!

I still don't understand how Dubs is going to make a Sacred Treasure for Lancelot when he didn't give him a body scan.

Lancelot's power is certainly above the gods, but the problem is that he can't use it without a Sacred Treasure.

He needs a Sacred Treasure to fight at his full power. Without it, he's still a high-Sin-tier fighter.

Also, the Four Evils only defeated the 4KOTA because of the Chaos buff. In their current form, they aren't that strong.



Why ?

Could Merlin use Aldan to transfer Lance's specs? She saw him at her tower.

 

[Covers]

Right, right... Cath explicitly stating that if he had total control over Arthur's strength, he would have total mastery over the power of chaos—meaning he wouldn't need to reclaim the chaos portion from the peligs

But that might be asking too much of your reading comprehension.

--- Double Post Merged, Monday at 10:51 AM ---

Look who is here the guy who can't accept is wrong and still says more stupid things.

Chaos Lancelot > Cath with 100% Chaos as stated in the chapter.

Keep crying.

 

[Capalot98]

I disagree. Dubs says that he's going to "refurbish" Tristan's sword, the word meaning to rebuild or to freshen up. That's something you do with an old and worn down weapon, not a brand new one that we haven't even seen yet. And why would Tristan's ST be just a singular sword when he's been dual-wielding this entire time? I think it makes way more sense for Dubs to be referring to the Dragon Handle sword that was recently broken by Ysaie. Dubs will fix and enhance that so that Tristan can go back to wielding two swords again. The Lancelot stuff also reinforces this idea. Remember how excited Dubs was about the idea of crafting a weapon for Lancelot after hearing that his power is too much for normal weapons? If Dubs had already examined Lancelot a few days ago then why is it that he hasn't even started working on this project he was so interested in before? He even has to confirm with the KotA whether a spear would be fine with Lancelot even though he knew exactly what kind of weapons to make for Percival and co. after examining them. Either Dubs hit his own version of writer's block and lost interest in Lancelot's ST or he hasn't even examined the boy yet. My money is on the latter.

It’s more than likely he examined Tristan and Lancelot off screen and that’s how he’s gonna be able to make them ST. What would be the point of Nakaba giving them these holy grail infused weapons now just to say later on Dubs has to make them another set of weapons because they ones they got weren’t really weren’t ST and this time he wouldn’t have Arthur’s blood because it’s all gonna be presumably used to make these batch of weapons.

Plus if you go back to chapter 5 and see the illustration of the 4 knights before we met them Lancelot is holding a spear and Tristan is holding what looks like a Longsword so this could be a callback to that and Nakabas way of saying these were always gonna be their endgame weapons

 

[Maelstrom Omega]

You can't be serious

I just read the translation again and I guess I was wrong . It’s still a bit confusing for me tho so I’ll just wait for the official release

 

[Yakkun]

I am truly curious what benefits will come from the training with the Perils. They obvs. need anyone at their strongest they can get so perhaps Balin, Gareth and Bors will also chip in and help each other. Bors especially needs something, anything. At least awaken a magic or something.

Back to the Perils and 3 KotA, there are obviously some benefits to gain here still even if the Perils had no chsnce against Lancelot. Lancelot is always a shit benchmark because he low-diffs anyone at this point and even before. So this might be more about mindset and resolve in the end. Still, we might get some really good interactions here and I'm all here for it.

The connections between Bertolepe and Gawain and Ironside and Percival especially. In the latter pairing especially there might still be some tension left although with the way Percival is now I doubt he'd withhold forgiveness in his heart for Ironside despite everything. Still, Ironside has depts to consider and he should do his utmost to earn even a little forgiveness.

That reminds me, with Lancelot now having destroyed Camelot completely, Pellegarde lost his wife and his son both and he might not even have realized it yet. If I feel sorry for any of the Perils, it's him. He may be a scoundrel but at heart he was the best and most upstanding of them. A man who tried to balance loyalty to a fake king while also not forsaking his wife. When he bearhugged Percival like a son this chapter it hit me right in the feels.

 

[Covers]

Still no Lady of the Lake reaction.

 

[Yakkun]

Still no Lady of the Lake reaction.

True. That's rather surprising. I wonder what the plan is for her but Nakaba doesn't give us anything. The last time we saw her do anything was before Cath invaded. Kind of insane.

 

[kkck]

Training with the perils? What's that gonna do? Even if they kept their chaos, which they probably didn't, they wouldn't be proper training buddies for someone who needs to fight chaos lancelot.

 

[Yakkun]

Training with the perils? What's that gonna do? Even if they kept their chaos, which they probably didn't, they wouldn't be proper training buddies for someone who needs to fight chaos lancelot.

Let's be real, no one can adequately prepare anyone for Chaos Lance. No one. This is probably closer to a therapy session than anything else

 

[Covers]

The four perils gonna die like gloxina and Drole against Chaos Lancelot probably?

--- Double Post Merged, Monday at 5:40 PM, Original Post Date: Monday at 5:39 PM ---

Wonder if there will be round 2? Like round 1 goes bad.

 

[kkck]

Let's be real, no one can adequately prepare anyone for Chaos Lance. No one. This is probably closer to a therapy session than anything else

If that... How strong can any of them really be? OG manga GHK level? Maybe they have some insight on chaos but I fail to see how that would be valuable when both arthur and merlin are around.

 

[tdtd1234]

I just realised that the colors of the 4 perils corespond to the colors of the 4 horsemen. I wonder if it means anything.

 

[Mighty Escanor]

Silly me, I had high hopes for new STs, but only one who won't get anything out of it is Gawain! The big dagger's design is just too simple and it's the best for Escanor's use not Gawain's. Sigh!

If by the long sword, Dubs mean the dragon handle with a broken blade, the four of them will now be Dubs made btw.

Cath had never been controlling Chaos nor was he even communicating with her. For Cath, Chaos was simply a will to exist. Lancelot's power and LotL reserve are a greater addition to his partial Chaos ability than the remaining Chaos from Arthur. This chapter doesn't compare Chaos Lancelot with a KoC entity like Arthur himself. However, Chaos Lancelot is literally said to be beyond deities. That's a great PU. Is it finally time for 4kota or at least some of them to enter that domain as well? That would be good news!

Nakaba has found a way to involve 4perils in the confrontation. Knowing their weakness, it's a stupid choice apparently. While I somehow agree that Escanor, Merlin, Mael, and Zeldris are better choices for Gawain and Tristan, Percival's case is different.

He was unable to do anything against Ironside and he controlled him like a puppet. This means our life spirit has lots of room to grow both in knowledge and skills.

It also worth mentioning that even though the 4perils have lost their Chaos abilities, their knowledge, their experience, and their own magic couldn't have been lost. They are great assets for sure.

Good to see DinoEscanor all happy and energetic. I wonder when the brothers meet after all these years. That said I actually love old man Bel's new style. That's so coool!

 

[Yakkun]

If that... How strong can any of them really be? OG manga GHK level? Maybe they have some insight on chaos but I fail to see how that would be valuable when both arthur and merlin are around.

Not gonna lie, it does make me wonder, too. Just how strong are they. Losing against Lance and the Sins repeatedly painted them in a pretty bad light. I wouldn't put it past Nakaba to come up with some random-ass explanation now like "Chaos gave them more raw power but suppressed their true abilities in exchange" or some shit. That would explain away why after going full Chaos we never sawthe likes of Pellegarde and Beltreipe use their flame magic or their insane cutting power respectively. Worreldane and Ironside might be somewhat excempt from this because they are both mages and as a summoner and sorceress they kind of tap into a different pool of abilities but no matter how you turn it, it all feels unconvincing even in my mind.

Another thing that can possibly happen is that they somehow retain a fraction of the powerboost they got from Chaos even after losing its influence. Wouldn't be the first time. Jericho somehow inherited Gustav's magic, Dreyfus did the same thing with Fraudrin's Full Size magic. There have been weirder cases than this scenario. Alternatively, the events of Chaos possession and subsequently getting "healed" from it might have been enough of a trigger to cause magic evolution. This is something that was introduced to us only in this sequel, that magic types either evolve along a potency path or an alternation path. In either case, this could provide a power boost if some of their magics evolved and become more powerful or changed entirely or gained more versatility.

All of that aside, the only other benefit I could see here is combat experience and how that can be handed down to relatively young combatants even if the 4KotA already should be more powerful than the 4 Perils were even with Chaos boost. If you believe in Lancelot's words, at least (I somewhat do but it's not as clear-cut as he has made it out to be back then when he wrecked them in the tournament). So this might come down to teaching them a mindset or some tricks up their sleeves, it is also good practise for them to mix it up between the seven of them so they get to fight opponents that are their natural enemies. Percival is the only one who I can really see coming away with some sort of secret and that is only if Ironside reveals the full circumstances of how he was "made". The category of summoner is a relatively recent addition or at least explanation in this sequel and wasn't really focused on in NNT. Ironside is still the best we know in this discipline and he knows forbidden magic even within that discipline. Although he was chaos boosted, him being able to excert domination over even Percival's life spirit and make him go berserk is impressive. Ironside may teach Percival something about life spirits that no other human being can because he is an expert in this field. Even if that knowledge is perhaps taboo.

As for Arthur and Merlin, they will be otherwise busy. I honestly could see Arthur sharing part of his chaos power (the good stuff this time around) with the 4 Perils so they can get a boost without losing their minds but I don't think Nakaba will do that again because it is just a super cheap repetition and from an in-verse perspective, I think the 4 Perils have enough of chaos shenanigans to last a lifetime. Merlin.... will probably be busy with aiding in a plan and preparing for Lancelot's inevitable arrival. She won't be much involved in training or other personal stuff except perhaps if it pertains to Gawain personally since she is her daughter and there is also some details with Worreldane and Beliaruin I'd love some insight into.

Long text for me to say "I don't know what the 4Perils can bring to the table" but it's gotta be something. Even if its just a symbolic baton pass of them saying "we trust you to handle this but we will give our all in the upcoming fight to atone for our sins, even if it means dying". Beyond that I doubt we can expect much more from them.

--- Double Post Merged, Monday at 6:54 PM, Original Post Date: Monday at 6:12 PM ---

Guys, is this what I think it is

 

[kkck]

Not gonna lie, it does make me wonder, too. Just how strong are they. Losing against Lance and the Sins repeatedly painted them in a pretty bad light. I wouldn't put it past Nakaba to come up with some random-ass explanation now like "Chaos gave them more raw power but suppressed their true abilities in exchange" or some shit. That would explain away why after going full Chaos we never sawthe likes of Pellegarde and Beltreipe use their flame magic or their insane cutting power respectively. Worreldane and Ironside might be somewhat excempt from this because they are both mages and as a summoner and sorceress they kind of tap into a different pool of abilities but no matter how you turn it, it all feels unconvincing even in my mind.

Another thing that can possibly happen is that they somehow retain a fraction of the powerboost they got from Chaos even after losing its influence. Wouldn't be the first time. Jericho somehow inherited Gustav's magic, Dreyfus did the same thing with Fraudrin's Full Size magic. There have been weirder cases than this scenario. Alternatively, the events of Chaos possession and subsequently getting "healed" from it might have been enough of a trigger to cause magic evolution. This is something that was introduced to us only in this sequel, that magic types either evolve along a potency path or an alternation path. In either case, this could provide a power boost if some of their magics evolved and become more powerful or changed entirely or gained more versatility.

All of that aside, the only other benefit I could see here is combat experience and how that can be handed down to relatively young combatants even if the 4KotA already should be more powerful than the 4 Perils were even with Chaos boost. If you believe in Lancelot's words, at least (I somewhat do but it's not as clear-cut as he has made it out to be back then when he wrecked them in the tournament). So this might come down to teaching them a mindset or some tricks up their sleeves, it is also good practise for them to mix it up between the seven of them so they get to fight opponents that are their natural enemies. Percival is the only one who I can really see coming away with some sort of secret and that is only if Ironside reveals the full circumstances of how he was "made". The category of summoner is a relatively recent addition or at least explanation in this sequel and wasn't really focused on in NNT. Ironside is still the best we know in this discipline and he knows forbidden magic even within that discipline. Although he was chaos boosted, him being able to excert domination over even Percival's life spirit and make him go berserk is impressive. Ironside may teach Percival something about life spirits that no other human being can because he is an expert in this field. Even if that knowledge is perhaps taboo.

As for Arthur and Merlin, they will be otherwise busy. I honestly could see Arthur sharing part of his chaos power (the good stuff this time around) with the 4 Perils so they can get a boost without losing their minds but I don't think Nakaba will do that again because it is just a super cheap repetition and from an in-verse perspective, I think the 4 Perils have enough of chaos shenanigans to last a lifetime. Merlin.... will probably be busy with aiding in a plan and preparing for Lancelot's inevitable arrival. She won't be much involved in training or other personal stuff except perhaps if it pertains to Gawain personally since she is her daughter and there is also some details with Worreldane and Beliaruin I'd love some insight into.

Long text for me to say "I don't know what the 4Perils can bring to the table" but it's gotta be something. Even if its just a symbolic baton pass of them saying "we trust you to handle this but we will give our all in the upcoming fight to atone for our sins, even if it means dying". Beyond that I doubt we can expect much more from them.

I mean, they obviously are powerful within a human framework. I don't hold it against them that they've been facing beings that can be scaled against divine beings with dominion over life, death and reality.

I don't think the context with Jericho was that she inherited her brother's magic. Innate magics originate from the user's will, personality and experience. A combination of the familial relation along with the trauma over gustaff's death is likely what awakened jericho's magic. With dreyfus there was indeed some magic transfer nonsense. With chaos the effects are likely completely random and nonsensical as it seems to be in a hierarchy outright above magic (hence why chaos is able to birth an entity with infinite magic).

As far as I can tell arthur does not appear to have that much control over chaos as of now. I would guess some part of the plot should revolve around him reclaiming all chaos.

Hmm, I wonder if the solution here is in some capacity to kill Guinevere... As in, say, killing her temporarily would break chaos' hold over lancelot. I know this manga is all about some romances but if the story was in any capacity good there would be some acknowledgement that killing lancelot and his future wife is a preferable scenario to all magical races along with every bond they share with humanity being removed from the world.

 

[Yakkun]

Hmm, I wonder if the solution here is in some capacity to kill Guinevere... As in, say, killing her temporarily would break chaos' hold over lancelot. I know this manga is all about some romances but if the story was in any capacity good there would be some acknowledgement that killing lancelot and his future wife is a preferable scenario to all magical races along with every bond they share with humanity being removed from the world.

Hmmm.... here is indeed an interesting possibility. If her Caleidoscope allows Guin to see one or several possible futures then rightfully in the Grail Knight timeline, there is a Guinevere who can do the same.

If "our" Guin were to actually die but she is somehow connected to the Guinevere of the Grail Knight future through the abilities of her magic then Lancelot may lose her in the "now" only to be at some point be reunited with a Guinevere in the future. She would technically be a different person but thanks to her magic she may retain all the memories and experiences "our" current Guinevere has had. Early on in the manga Lancelot had a dream of Guinevere as an adult woman in a wedding dress, smiling at him. This could be said Guinevere from the future.


Gods, still. Timeline shit is SUCH. A. HEADACHE!

 

[tdtd1234]

Looks like most people agree that Percival will train with Ironside.

As for Gawain, while the most obvious training is with Worreldane I think learning swordsmanship from Beltreipe will be both more useful (because Gawain has absolutely no skill with the sword) and more interesting because of the connection to Escanor.

For Tristan my best guess is that the focus will be on his base form rather than his Goddess/Demon powers (if the transformations are multipliers then doubling his base power will double his overall power).

 

[kkck]

Gawain does have a sword iirc so perhaps training with Beltreipe makes some sense. Though its weird to think her learning swordsmanship would be of any importance this late in the game.

Maybe worreldane will train tristan. His magic is chaos adjacent so maybe the fact that she consciously used chaos the longest could be of some use.

Percy doesn't really look like he has anything to learn from ironside. I suppose some reconciliation of some sort could make sense.