Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1194 Spoiler Discussion

Ketimatsu

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You were what, 10 at the beginning? It's obvious that you see it with very different eyes now, but the manga it's still the same.
You must have been 60 when it started, you have to be blind to see the manga "is the same". Whatever the judgment of quality we want to have, it has changed in many respects, especially pre/post time skip.
 

NAMELESS

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But why would you need to read hundreds of chapters later down the line if you don't like it?
I want to now the ending.
With all due of respect but do you like torturing yourself? If I don't like something I DON'T watch/read this. So why are you reading One Piece if you don't like it anymore? To have something to complain about? Seriously, if you don't like it DON'T READ IT. It's not like you die or get sick without it. It's not exercises after all, you can live healthy life without One Piece. Espesially if you DON'T like it.
OP still has its moments. I just don't care as much as I used to, and the current arc is boring me out. There are still things that I look forward to seeing, so I stick to it. I wasn't complaining at all.
 

Trip_LLL

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I'd argue One Piece being the same has actually been the biggest problem when pedal hits the metal.
For example:
Luffy's victory is the final victory of the arc.
When both present, Zoro and Sanji will be the final fights, with Sanji typically having his fight before Zoro.
The Monster trio of the past are the monster trio of the present.
Luffy will "lose" and then win, but mostly lose for however long the fight needs to get stretched.
Luffy will always have "down periods" with his powers, to facilitate the above, whether its G3's shrinkage, or G4's Haki cooldown, of G5's general cooldown.
Generally, Nami and Robin won't be brutalized by men in heavy melee the way the needle lady did Nami in Alabasta, and you usually have to hope they are fighting women if you want to see a good smackdown.
Due to Oda's trauma with an editor, he draws pretty women in a very stringent way (sourced from interview.)
Significant portions of an arc will involve running or approaching the enemy when you're Luffy, and Oda uses travel time to keep characters apart.

Metawise, fans always love comparing the New World arcs to the Paradise analogues.

Regarding "differences"
We could say One Piece became different when Oda made the choice to introduce the warlords, as he admitted. The story has massively expanded because of those characters, pulling it away from the version that only had the Four Emperors.

Because of the success of Marineford, Oda has been continuously testing large-scale battles starting in Dressrosa, and then following into Wano. We've also gotten more unique scenarios in between.

Because of the ever-expanding cast of characters, there are more characters required to service than in Paradise. This has led to real problems and we've seen Oda try to solve it, experimenting with the crew split. Right now, it manifests as characters just standing and watching. Still an ongoing challenge.

Because of his desire to beat Marineford, he's focused on getting as many pieces on the board to have as many characters have moments in final war.

Because of One Piece's length, Oda has employed developmental rushing tactics like slamming together fire island and ice island into punk hazard, and slamming together Dressrosa and Greenbit, therein giving us a follow up to the Nolan stuff and so on. (Sourced from interviews)

---

I think on an existential level, if One Piece stayed the same, one could admire the dedication to some former identity, while others might question how that is even possible over 30 extraordinarily turbulent years.
If One Piece changed, some would say it's not what it used to be and might want that, while others would say its natural for something to change as the environment to change.
Practically, at the 30 year mark of continuous release, where you've witnessed the rise of the internet and the sudden exposure to the international market, its impossible to not change.
I sincerely do not believe that anyone here has not changed in some ways. Now imagine the sort of change that a man will go through, meeting his wife who cosplayed his character and experiencing horniness so great he enlarged chest sizes, then his daughters going from infants to college, all while he was still killing himself with alcohol and cigs, and 3 hours of sleep at night, while spending at least 14 hours a week speaking to editors, not counting hours speaking to voice actors and managing the franchise.
There's just some realities that have to be appreciated.
 

marco1701

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You must have been 60 when it started, you have to be blind to see the manga "is the same". Whatever the judgment of quality we want to have, it has changed in many respects, especially pre/post time skip.
I was 22 when it was first published in my country, now I'm 49 and it still gives me the same feelings... And in fact I continued to buy the volumes.
Where is the problem?
 

SanaNeOlm

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But why would you need to read hundreds of chapters later down the line if you don't like it?
Is it that surprising? I read manga to the end despite not liking it much anymore just to know where it ends. Because I was once invested. One chapter when it drops is better than reading it in a bulk when you don't enjoy it much but still want to know where the story goes. Tate no Yuusha comes to mind...
I want to now the ending.


OP still has its moments. I just don't care as much as I used to, and the current arc is boring me out. There are still things that I look forward to seeing, so I stick to it. I wasn't complaining at all.
I don't see it as harshly as you, since OP still gives me enjoyment and a good chuckle here and there (and I'm a sucker for world building and conspiracy type of stories), but I get the sentiment. There're couple books I read or shows I watched which I didn't quite like anymore but still finished just to know the ending. But maybe the weekly release isn't just for you? Drop it and come back to it in a year?

I did that with One Piece anime and being able to binge it when in mood was a nice change.
 

Pirate Queen

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Newest spoilers confirm Mihawk was just remembering Shanks' CoC. The fraud hawk really has none of his own

 

DeadlyBeast

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Oda might ease/dehumanise the death by making them shrivel up into bones like Saturn did. I think that would make it seem less like a killing and more of a slaying (as in slaying a monster, like when zoro killed the dragon in punk hazard)
That could potentially work but not sure Sommers is old enough yet. Saturn was older than should have been normal is why he shriveled up and turned to dust. We didn't see the same happen to Harald.

I feel like we could start to figure things out if we knew why the hearts appear to be machinery, and why machine sounds are associated with someone like Gunko. (When she was controlled, the sound was "bzzt" if I recall, right before Imu took over).
Why does a supernatural pact lead to metal hearts?

I dont know if Oda is actually saying magic and technology are one in the same at sufficiently high levels, but one of the easiest solutions to this would just be to make it so that if the metal heart is destroyed, they get teleported back to where they came from and get their real heart back.
That would have been a great way out of killing but Oda has painted himself into a corner. In the very last chapter Zoro flashback had Loki describing how he killed Harald. If destroying the heart doesn't ki9ll then why is Harald dead? I think they have to maybe take the metal heart to prevent regenerating or truly kill them.
 

costicla

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Can Zoro pull off what Gaban just did? Mountain Eater. Then the answer is no.
Do what, get almost killed and lose an arm? I think Zorro could do that.
 

DeadlyBeast

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I'd argue One Piece being the same has actually been the biggest problem when pedal hits the metal.
For example:
Luffy's victory is the final victory of the arc.
When both present, Zoro and Sanji will be the final fights, with Sanji typically having his fight before Zoro.
The Monster trio of the past are the monster trio of the present.
Luffy will "lose" and then win, but mostly lose for however long the fight needs to get stretched.
Luffy will always have "down periods" with his powers, to facilitate the above, whether its G3's shrinkage, or G4's Haki cooldown, of G5's general cooldown.
Generally, Nami and Robin won't be brutalized by men in heavy melee the way the needle lady did Nami in Alabasta, and you usually have to hope they are fighting women if you want to see a good smackdown.
Due to Oda's trauma with an editor, he draws pretty women in a very stringent way (sourced from interview.)
Significant portions of an arc will involve running or approaching the enemy when you're Luffy, and Oda uses travel time to keep characters apart.

Metawise, fans always love comparing the New World arcs to the Paradise analogues.

Regarding "differences"
We could say One Piece became different when Oda made the choice to introduce the warlords, as he admitted. The story has massively expanded because of those characters, pulling it away from the version that only had the Four Emperors.

Because of the success of Marineford, Oda has been continuously testing large-scale battles starting in Dressrosa, and then following into Wano. We've also gotten more unique scenarios in between.

Because of the ever-expanding cast of characters, there are more characters required to service than in Paradise. This has led to real problems and we've seen Oda try to solve it, experimenting with the crew split. Right now, it manifests as characters just standing and watching. Still an ongoing challenge.

Because of his desire to beat Marineford, he's focused on getting as many pieces on the board to have as many characters have moments in final war.

Because of One Piece's length, Oda has employed developmental rushing tactics like slamming together fire island and ice island into punk hazard, and slamming together Dressrosa and Greenbit, therein giving us a follow up to the Nolan stuff and so on. (Sourced from interviews)

---

I think on an existential level, if One Piece stayed the same, one could admire the dedication to some former identity, while others might question how that is even possible over 30 extraordinarily turbulent years.
If One Piece changed, some would say it's not what it used to be and might want that, while others would say its natural for something to change as the environment to change.
Practically, at the 30 year mark of continuous release, where you've witnessed the rise of the internet and the sudden exposure to the international market, its impossible to not change.
I sincerely do not believe that anyone here has not changed in some ways. Now imagine the sort of change that a man will go through, meeting his wife who cosplayed his character and experiencing horniness so great he enlarged chest sizes, then his daughters going from infants to college, all while he was still killing himself with alcohol and cigs, and 3 hours of sleep at night, while spending at least 14 hours a week speaking to editors, not counting hours speaking to voice actors and managing the franchise.
There's just some realities that have to be appreciated.
This was pretty good summary of what's happened to OP. I think the shift has been both staying the same and repeat past highs using the same formula but at the same time the real world and the scope of the story itself have changed making the repeated attempts not always land well. I personally think Oda needed to dig deeper into the past successes and find what made them work well at their core instead of just trying to repeat the mechanics and hope it will be as well received.

For example Marineford was not well received just because of the size of the combat. What made it work so well was the deep emotional drive, trying to save your brother, fighting your hardest against forces you knew you had no chance against, all the chaos of the battlefield (the first time it was ever done in the story), finally looking like things would work out and then the massive loss where there is profound loss. All future attempts Oda had at this never brought what made it work - somehting very personal to the main characters, something genuinely novel to the story (repeating a big battle isn't novel anymore), and some type of loss that actually hurts. If he hit one to two of those points I think other arcs would have been better.
 

yokoso9999

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You were what, 10 at the beginning? It's obvious that you see it with very different eyes now, but the manga it's still the same.
I'm 1977, so I was twice that. So the eyes are not so different.
 

Bandit99

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I'm 1977, so I was twice that. So the eyes are not so different.
Not to age shame but you’re waaaaaaaay past the demographic for this manga so it’s understandable why you don’t enjoy it as much anymore
 

yokoso9999

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Not to age shame but you’re waaaaaaaay past the demographic for this manga so it’s understandable why you don’t enjoy it as much anymore
You are entitled to your opinion.

Edit: Btw, we in Japan here read Mangas until we die lol. Simply visit one of those BOOK OFF stores, or visit Akihabara, you see geezers everywhere, at times even more than youngsters.
 

Bandit99

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You are entitled to your opinion.

Edit: Btw, we in Japan here read Mangas until we die lol. Simply visit one of those BOOK OFF stores, or visit Akihabara, you see geezers everywhere, at times even more than youngsters.
Oh for sure. But one piece in particular is a shonen which is mainly for teens. There are obviously mangas for older folks
 

The Trinity

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Newest spoilers confirm Mihawk was just remembering Shanks' CoC. The fraud hawk really has none of his own

Wait, that's not how that spoiler reads at all. While it may be true Mihawk doesn't have it, him alerting Zoro to something that doesn't change shouldn't read to you, "but I don't have that it."

Chill and wait young'n. He needs to EXPLICITLY state he lacks it.

I gathered from the spoilers that from all the teachings and info Zoro has received on haki and it's many manifestations (Coc, too), Mihawk's time with Zoro still reigns supreme.

If anything, Mihawk's intimate knowledge of how to use Coc, according the spoilers, seems to me he could very well possess it. It's far too exact/precise in how HK works.
 
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yokoso9999

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You are entitled to your opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Oh for sure. But one piece in particular is a shonen which is mainly for teens. There are obviously mangas for older folks
There is no age restriction or whatsover. Even a Japanese child here enters the ****** section of Animate or any other established Anime shop freely or in company with their parents. You are free to read whatever you desire, regardless of age and gender, just as simple as that. My 10 year old niece from Kumamoto even reads Battle Royale and Gantz lol
 

Bandit99

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There is no age restriction or whatsover. Even a Japanese child here enters the ****** section of Animate or any other established Anime shop freely or in company with their parents. You are free to read whatever you desire, regardless of age and gender, just as simple as that. My 10 year old niece from Kumamoto even reads Battle Royale and Gantz lol
Yeah. Again, I'm not saying you can't read whatever you want. I'm simply saying that these mangas are written with specific audiences in mind, so I can understand why you don't enjoy one piece as much as others would. That's all. Everyone can read what they want lol
 

marco1701

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I'm 1977, so I was twice that. So the eyes are not so different.
Same age, but that means you typed wrong date in your profile, because its written "39" in the forum.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Yeah. Again, I'm not saying you can't read whatever you want. I'm simply saying that these mangas are written with specific audiences in mind, so I can understand why you don't enjoy one piece as much as others would. That's all. Everyone can read what they want lol
And for the same reason I assumed he wasn't enjoying so much... Read OP as an adult gives you different feelings
 

yokoso9999

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Same age, but that means you typed wrong date in your profile, because its written "39" in the forum.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



And for the same reason I assumed he wasn't enjoying so much... Read OP as an adult gives you different feelings
Not real age, just as not real country.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Yeah. Again, I'm not saying you can't read whatever you want. I'm simply saying that these mangas are written with specific audiences in mind, so I can understand why you don't enjoy one piece as much as others would. That's all. Everyone can read what they want lol
You misunderstood me, because you were asking me to give a either-or-question, so my answer was limited to yes and no, so if I was to elaborate, I did enjoy One Piece, otherwise I wouldn't have followed it up for so long, but at some point, you simply ask yourself: What is Oda thinking? Has he lost any motivation? I am sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. Something is simply off, it's not as it used to be anymore.
 

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You misunderstood me, because you were asking me to give a either-or-question, so my answer was limited to yes and no, so if I was to elaborate, I did enjoy One Piece, otherwise I wouldn't have followed it up for so long, but at some point, you simply ask yourself: What is Oda thinking? Has he lost any motivation? I am sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. Something is simply off, it's not as it used to be anymore.
Yeah I agree with you there!
 

costicla

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You misunderstood me, because you were asking me to give a either-or-question, so my answer was limited to yes and no, so if I was to elaborate, I did enjoy One Piece, otherwise I wouldn't have followed it up for so long, but at some point, you simply ask yourself: What is Oda thinking? Has he lost any motivation? I am sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. Something is simply off, it's not as it used to be anymore.
I don't see anyway in which Oda has lost motivation, especially with how much stuff there is in any arc, but hey, that is your opinion.
 
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