Chapter Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Chapter 255 Spoilers & Discussion

[Yakkun]

There should be a dedicated powerscaling thread, because EVERY chapter discussion ends up like this.

Definitely. It is tiresome how every week ends up the same

 

[Capalot98]

Nothing matches the quality of Dubs-made weapons.

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 6:50 AM, Original Post Date: Friday at 6:42 AM ---

We literally have examples of the gods themselves being able to make weapons that are on par with Dubs-made weapons. None of the fairy kings spirit spears were made by Dubs, they were all made by the sacred tree but Kings spirit spear Chastiefol is still considered a st. Excalibur wasn't made by Dubs, it was given to the first human wielder by the lady of the lake so either she made it or chaos made it.

So Chaos being able to transform Ysaye’s spear into something on par with a dubs made weapon is entirely possible but since your so set on pushing your agenda and headcanon you don’t wanna admit that

 

[Avalоn]

We literally have examples of the gods themselves being able to make weapons that are on par with Dubs-made weapons. None of the fairy kings spirit spears were made by Dubs, they were all made by the sacred tree but Kings spirit spear Chastiefol is still considered a st. Excalibur wasn't made by Dubs, it was given to the first human wielder by the lady of the lake so either she made it or chaos made it.

So Chaos being able to transform Ysaye’s spear into something on par with a dubs made weapon is entirely possible but since your so set on pushing your agenda and headcanon you don’t wanna admit that

Broo, don't ruin his headcanon

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

We literally have examples of the gods themselves being able to make weapons that are on par with Dubs-made weapons. None of the fairy kings spirit spears were made by Dubs, they were all made by the sacred tree but Kings spirit spear Chastiefol is still considered a st. Excalibur wasn't made by Dubs, it was given to the first human wielder by the lady of the lake so either she made it or chaos made it.

So Chaos being able to transform Ysaye’s spear into something on par with a dubs made weapon is entirely possible but since your so set on pushing your agenda and headcanon you don’t wanna admit that

It's clearly not on par with Nanashi's sword; otherwise, Hazy Moon would have shifted to a darker shade.

This isn't headcanon—it's literally what happened during Lancelot's fight against the Four Evils.

Why isn't Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon as dark as the one he manifested against the four evils ?

 

[tdtd1234]

It's clearly not on par with Nanashi's sword; otherwise, Hazy Moon would have shifted to a darker shade.

This isn't headcanon—it's literally what happened during Lancelot's fight against the Four Evils.

Why isn't Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon as dark as the one he manifested against the four evils ?

That's circular reasoning.

Dark Hazy moon is stronger because it uses a Dubs weapon and a Dubs weapon is stronger because it turns Hazy moon dark.
When someone challenges one statement you use the other despite it relying on the first.

So I'm chalenging both statements: Dark Hazy moon isn't stronger and Dubs weapons aren't unmatched.

 

[Capalot98]

It's clearly not on par with Nanashi's sword; otherwise, Hazy Moon would have shifted to a darker shade.

This isn't headcanon—it's literally what happened during Lancelot's fight against the Four Evils.

Why isn't Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon as dark as the one he manifested against the four evils ?

I like how you just glossed over the first part of my comment and weren’t even gonna admit that you were wrong about no other weapon being on par with the ones Dubs makes when that’s clearly not the case lol.

As far as the dark hazy moon, your the only one that puts so much emphasis on that and over analyses it to the point where you’ve convinced yourself that because it was dark that one time that automatically means that’s the strongest version of Hazy moon and it can only be used by a weapon made by Dubs even though neither of those things were ever stated in the story. There’s literally no proof or evidence to back up what your saying but because your so convinced your right you keep going around spreading your theory about it like it’s a fact and it can’t be challenged when that’s not true.

For all we know the hazy moon turning dark could just be something that only happens when he uses “the moon of eighteen” and has nothing to do with what weapon is being used just that specific skill. It could be because Lancelot took in 4 different chaos amped attacks and mixed them together for his attack. Or it could’ve just been an artistic choice by Nakaba that one time lol. Point is there’s many different ways you could explain it, maybe there is some importance to it and we just don’t have the reasoning for it yet or it’s possible it means absolutely nothing at all. Maybe you will be validated in the future and it’s confirmed it was dark because of Nanashi sword but as of right now there is no confirmed reasoning for it so everything you say about it is just headcanon until proven otherwise

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

That's circular reasoning.

Dark Hazy moon is stronger because it uses a Dubs weapon and a Dubs weapon is stronger because it turns Hazy moon dark.
When someone challenges one statement you use the other despite it relying on the first.

So I'm chalenging both statements: Dark Hazy moon isn't stronger and Dubs weapons aren't unmatched.

No, the dark-colored Hazy Moon is stronger because it functions differently from the standard light-colored one.

If you look closely, pre-timeskip Lancelot and Chaos Lancelot share the exact same Hazy Moon color.

However, when Lancelot channels it through Nanashi's sword, the ability takes on a dark coloration.

The only logical explanation for this visual shift is that it represents an advanced, more powerful version.

This is also backed up by their descriptions: while the light-colored version is described as a "Mighty River" (Taiga), the dark-colored version is depicted as a "Vortex" or spiral (Uzumaki).

 

[tdtd1234]

No, the dark-colored Hazy Moon is stronger because it functions differently from the standard light-colored one.

If you look closely, pre-timeskip Lancelot and Chaos Lancelot share the exact same Hazy Moon color.

However, when Lancelot channels it through Nanashi's sword, the ability takes on a dark coloration.

The only logical explanation for this visual shift is that it represents an advanced, more powerful version.

This is also backed up by their descriptions: while the light-colored version is described as a "Mighty River" (Taiga), the dark-colored version is depicted as a "Vortex" or spiral (Uzumaki).

Many people have told you they think the color comes not ftom Dubs' sword, but from the magic of the 4 perils mixing with Lancelot's and yet you continue to insist the only posible explanation is that the color signifies strength.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

I like how you just glossed over the first part of my comment and weren’t even gonna admit that you were wrong about no other weapon being on par with the ones Dubs makes when that’s clearly not the case lol.

As far as the dark hazy moon, your the only one that puts so much emphasis on that and over analyses it to the point where you’ve convinced yourself that because it was dark that one time that automatically means that’s the strongest version of Hazy moon and it can only be used by a weapon made by Dubs even though neither of those things were ever stated in the story. There’s literally no proof or evidence to back up what your saying but because your so convinced your right you keep going around spreading your theory about it like it’s a fact and it can’t be challenged when that’s not true.

For all we know the hazy moon turning dark could just be something that only happens when he uses “the moon of eighteen” and has nothing to do with what weapon is being used just that specific skill. It could be because Lancelot took in 4 different chaos amped attacks and mixed them together for his attack. Or it could’ve just been an artistic choice by Nakaba that one time lol. Point is there’s many different ways you could explain it, maybe there is some importance to it and we just don’t have the reasoning for it yet or it’s possible it means absolutely nothing at all. Maybe you will be validated in the future and it’s confirmed it was dark because of Nanashi sword but as of right now there is no confirmed reasoning for it so everything you say about it is just headcanon until proven otherwise

I didn't gloss over it; I'm telling you that you're wrong.

Chaos cannot create weapons on par with Dubs's craftsmanship—at least not the Chaos in Cath's possession.

While the original Chaos might be capable of it since it literally created everything, Cath certainly cannot.

Furthermore, the core issue with Lancelot isn't the weapon's durability.

Because his magic is limitless, no ordinary weapon can withstand his infinite power, no matter how durable it is.

That is exactly why even Nanashi's sword shattered when he used Shining Road.

What Lancelot truly needs isn't just a durable weapon, but a Sacred Treasure forged by Dubs with a special ability that allows him to fully channel and draw out his infinite magic.

Additionally, you are wrong. There is textual evidence proving that the dark version is stronger.

Nanashi described the light version as a "Mighty River" (Taiga), whereas Gawain described the dark version as a "Vortex" (Uzumaki).

This proves it isn't just a cosmetic color change; they have entirely different descriptions because a vortex's stream is inherently more powerful than a mighty river's stream .

Many people have told you they think the color comes not ftom Dubs' sword, but from the magic of the 4 perils mixing with Lancelot's and yet you continue to insist the only posible explanation is that the color signifies strength.

The Idea that the color shift stems from Chaos or absorbed attacks has already been debunked multiple times.

Take Chaos Lancelot, for instance: he is literally containing most of Chaos, yet his Hazy Moon remains light-colored.

Furthermore, even when the demons recently hurled a massive ball of darkness at him, the color didn't change at all.

 

[tdtd1234]

The Idea that the color shift stems from Chaos or absorbed attacks has already been debunked multiple times.

Take Chaos Lancelot, for instance: he is literally containing most of Chaos, yet his Hazy Moon remains light-colored.

Furthermore, even when the demons recently hurled a massive ball of darkness at him, the color didn't change at all.

What he did against the 4 perils is absorb vast quantities of foreign magic. Now chaos is a part of him so there isn't anything foreign to absorb, it's his power.

As for the indura attack he didn't absorb it he repelled it with his own magic, you can see the remnants of the attack bounce off.

 

[Capalot98]

I didn't gloss over it; I'm telling you that you're wrong.

Chaos cannot create weapons on par with Dubs's craftsmanship—at least not the Chaos in Cath's possession.

While the original Chaos might be capable of it since it literally created everything, Cath certainly cannot.

Again your just picking and choosing what parts of a comment you wanna respond to based on what you think you could argue and yet your still wrong. The sacred tree is confirmed to be able to make weapons on par with Dubs weapons with its spirit spear and the sacred tree is weaker than Chaos. Therefore if the sacred tree is capable of that then Chaos for sure is able to as well even if it’s not at full power since it’s still stronger then the gods it created.

Not only that you never addressed Excalibur which is another weapon not made by Dubs but still on par with the weapons he makes. Since it was the key needed to awaken Arthur as the king of chaos we can only assume it was made by Chaos or the lady of the lake so again your wrong

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Again your just picking and choosing what parts of a comment you wanna respond to based on what you think you could argue and yet your still wrong. The sacred tree is confirmed to be able to make weapons on par with Dubs weapons with its spirit spear and the sacred tree is weaker than Chaos. Therefore if the sacred tree is capable of that then Chaos for sure is able to as well even if it’s not at full power since it’s still stronger then the gods it created.

Not only that you never addressed Excalibur which is another weapon not made by Dubs but still on par with the weapons he makes. Since it was the key needed to awaken Arthur as the king of chaos we can only assume it was made by Chaos or the lady of the lake so again your wrong

What do Spirit Spears and Excalibur have to do with Ysaye's Spear?

Don't get me wrong; I would have believed that Cath's Chaos could create a weapon on par with Dubs's craftsmanship,

but the problem is that the story has clearly shown it cannot.

Again, this brings us back to the color shift of the Hazy Moon.

If Chaos Lancelot had displayed a dark Hazy Moon, I would have agreed with you that Chaos is capable of creating weapons on par with Dubs.

However, that simply isn't the case , Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon is still the same light colored version so there's no reason to believe his spear is on par with Dubs made weapons.

 

[Capalot98]

What do Spirit Spears and Excalibur have to do with Ysaye's Spear?

Don't get me wrong; I would have believed that Cath's Chaos could create a weapon on par with Dubs's craftsmanship,

but the problem is that the story has clearly shown it cannot.

Again, this brings us back to the color shift of the Hazy Moon.

If Chaos Lancelot had displayed a dark Hazy Moon, I would have agreed with you that Chaos is capable of creating weapons on par with Dubs.

However, that simply isn't the case , Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon is still the same light colored version so there's no reason to believe his spear is on par with Dubs made weapons.

You literally said “nothing matches the quality of Dubs-made weapons” the first comment I made addressed that point first showing you that your wrong and there are confirmed weapons in universe not made by Dubs but still on par with his and then I went on to your dark hazy moon head cannon.

The gods being able to make weapons on par with Dubs leads into them also being able to transform already made weapons to be on par with his.

Also I remember a while ago when you had another head cannon theory that somehow Chaos was sentient and could communicate with its host even though that was never shown. When I and others challenged you on that said Chaos hasn’t been shown to talk to Arthur or Cath you response was just because it hadn’t been shown to “yet” doesn’t mean your theory was wrong and it could still happen in the future. So I’ll use your logic and respond to your comment by saying just because we haven’t see Chaos Lancelot use a dark hazy moon “yet” doesn’t mean he can’t at all and we see him do it in the future.

(But knowing you even if Chaos Lancelot does use Ysayes spear to show the dark hazy moon you glaze so much you’ll still probably try to find some way to debunk it and say it’s not the same as the one used with Nanashis sword and is weaker)

 

[Rikudou King]

He didn't use it all this time though. His Magic is Ominous Nebula.

Do you mean we didn't see him have it active, cause from past examples it just seems like a passive ability, or do you mean we haven't seen it in effect, because this would really be the first situation since the original series where it could be shown. And yeah, his innate magic is Ominous Nebula, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have an additional ability. That was the case before, and several other characters have additional abilities with their innate magics.

All that said, this really only matters if Nakaba intends for this to be anything more then a brief conflict. Zeldris still having that ability would be the most logical excuse to justify an extended fight against current Lancelot.

 

[Demon Lord18]

Why isn't Chaos Lancelot's Hazy Moon as dark as the one he manifested against the four evils ?

Let's set the record straight. Lancelot uses his Shining Road against Nanashi, and the color of his magic remains normal. You could argue that he was holding back, so let's move on to the next example.

Lancelot uses his Shining Road against the Chaos fragment and releases so much magic that his sword actually breaks. Even so, the color of his magic remains normal.

The only time his magic changed color was when he combined his attack with that of the Four Evils. And, coincidentally, among the types of magic used in that combination was one that changed the color of Percival's aura to a shade identical to the one we see at the tip of Lancelot's sword.

 

[Covers]

It's useless and waste of to try and change his opinion we only have to wait until Lancelot true ST.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Let's set the record straight. Lancelot uses his Shining Road against Nanashi, and the color of his magic remains normal. You could argue that he was holding back, so let's move on to the next example.

Lancelot uses his Shining Road against the Chaos fragment and releases so much magic that his sword actually breaks. Even so, the color of his magic remains normal.

The only time his magic changed color was when he combined his attack with that of the Four Evils. And, coincidentally, among the types of magic used in that combination was one that changed the color of Percival's aura to a shade identical to the one we see at the tip of Lancelot's sword.

You do realize you're comparing two different things here , right ?

You're comparing Hazy Moon's external manifestation with Shinning Road.

I can show you many examples of characters having different colors for their different attacks.

Anyway , this back and forth is pointless and I'm getting tired of it.

We just have to wait and see when Lancelot gets his ST , then I'll take my win

--- Double Post Merged, Saturday at 9:45 AM, Original Post Date: Saturday at 9:33 AM ---

I don't know if any of you watch Bleach, but in Episode 43 of TYBW, the Soul King—who is essentially the god of the verse—is said to have the powers of Chaos, which is black in color.

What's interesting is that the Soul King suffered the exact same fate as Chaos in 7DS: he was sealed away by his own creations.

But let's go back to Chaos itself. Apparently, Chaos is a recurring concept in mythology.

It's the idea that before order was established and reality began to form, creation existed in a wild, unformed state known as Primordial Chaos or the Primordial Sea.

So, if Chaos is a thing in 7DS/4KOTA, what if Order is also a thing and we just don't know it yet?

The dynamic between Chaos and Order is incredibly common in fiction , Dark and Light , Yin and Yang...etc

What I'm trying to say is: what if The Great One represents Order in this dynamic?

I've theorized before that the Great One might be the life spirit of Chaos, since Chaos was the first life to exist , they're essentially like twins.

What do you guys think?

 

[Demon Lord18]

You're comparing Hazy Moon's external manifestation with Shinning Road.

So you're saying that The Moon of Eighteen is the external manifestation of Hazy Moon? Come on, man, don't be ridiculous.

 

[Mighty Escanor]

@Mountain-Photo-165 , I'm honestly curious as to how this idea of a dark hazy moon came to your mind and why you insist on it so much.

I can somehow see your mental image. For you, a dark aura is kinda sprayed/emitted from the tip of the sword which grabs the attacks of the four perils. And you see that darker aura as the dark hazy moon.

I can't understand why you actively ignoring the simplest explanation that makes much more sense? That the darker shade in those page was an artistic choice to distinguish the spatial slashes of Beltriepe and as a whole, what you call the dark hazy moon is a collection of attack techniques being sucked/absorbed by the tip of Lancelot's sword?

A single unidirectional movement of the mix of their attacks towards the sword is the explanation that's both simple and comprehensive. Compared to a bidirectional interaction in which the sword sends magic outward to grab that of four perils, and then move them toward the sword.

And even if you are right, why this much insistence? Like talking about it in many discussion threads on various platforms?

I'm not making jokes or trolling, I'm genuinely curious my friend.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Let's see if Lancelot can no-diff Zeldris tomorrow or if he will struggle.

After all, Escanor—in his 'The One' state, which is physically equal to the Demon King—managed to no-diff Zeldris.

He nullified his Ominous Nebula with a single chop and nearly killed him with just one finger.

Therefore, if Lancelot can't do sometthing similar , it proves he isn't at or beyond Demon King level; he would still be around Ban's level.

Keep in mind that Escanor accomplished this while Zeldris possessed the power of the Demon King, which granted him immunity to magical attacks.

If Lancelot fails to no-diff this version of Zeldris, or even struggles against him, it would be truly embarrassing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sunday at 12:39 PM, Original Post Date: Sunday at 12:13 PM ---

And even if you are right, why this much insistence? Like talking about it in many discussion threads on various platforms?
I'm not making jokes or trolling, I'm genuinely curious my friend.