Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1196 Spoiler Discussion

[Rein Avara]

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[armycat23]

All this conqueror's haki bullshit, when I'd be happy just having one instance of Nami with some armament haki having a decent one-on-one with someone, anyone. (Not saying Nami should start punching things, but to up her defence stats with coa while keeping her climatact for the offense.)

At this late stage in the game the enemies are "top of the world" in power. What would even be the point of giving her armament haki now? Who would she even fight and win against that would be a top fighter and worthy of the time to read?

The last "real" 1-on-1 fight she had was vs kalfa. Frankly, I don't recall anybody not wanting that fight to hurry up and end so that other fights would occur.

There's nothing wrong with some characters having a role as support or just fighting cannon fodder. Nami's never been a true fighter. She's a survivalist, in more ways than one.

 

[baditz]

People do not seem to comprehend what CoC stands for actually.
One thing every CoC share is their unbound drive to live and live as themselves, undying resolve to themselves.
However chivalrous one may be, if he is willing to throw his life away without a fight to keep it, his good nature and intentions are worthless, as you just allow others to step over you.
This is basically Sanji, and this is what I did not pay much attention to. He was always willing to throw his life away because he has always been, it seems, suicidal. Iva seems to be the only one who saw that and that is what Sanji is afraid - to see someone past his good intentions mask and see what lies underneath.
The moment Sanji will completely refuse to die and will own himself and his fault to a tee, when he will accept his German lineage, he will unlock CoC.

That is why every top tier in OP must have CoC - only those with such gear to them can climb to the top.

Yeah in OP all CoC user have big egos, being King itself mean to have ego to be only in top.

 

[HereNThere]

This was probably one of the better ways for Oda to recontextualize the problamatic aspect of Sanji's 2 year training and the resulting "gag". So, hey, kudos for it.

As for the chapter...I mean, I love it. Not much else I can say. It's great character work and, as I expected, puts a cap on Sanji development since WCI.

That's why I'm not upset about how Sanji awakens his SKH. I'm not looking at this as singular instance of him remembering Iva's lesson. I'm looking at his entire arc. The chapter pretty much spells it out. This realization would not have happened if Sanji had not addressed his trauma with his family. Sanji reacts incredibly poorly when he thinks about his family during his training. But now that's not the case. Iva manifesting as Sanji's "nightmare" instead of his father basically confirms he has moved on from them. And without him being in denial regarding them, he can finally take Iva's words to heart.

All that said, Oda's lack of focus on the other Strawhats is pretty awful, lol. Sanji and Brook got crazy focus and Robin got a bit of shine with Saul, so my three faves were treated well this arc.

 

[NAMELESS]

Great chapter. My prediction is that Sanji will unlock COC for a brief moment in his finisher move after getting beaten to a pulp, similar to Zoro cutting steel in Alabasta.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sanji having all this character development is strange given the fact that other strawhats, even Luffy, aren't getting near this level of attention.

I'm not surprised Oda didnt have Sanji unlock CoC right away. There's still hope he unlocks an equivalent power up but not holding my breath.

CoC really is the worst power up equalizer among Top Tiers...

 

[kkck]

Eh, I don't outright dislike the chapter but this feels too contrived. Is this self love stuff even that adjacent to having a strong sense of self? How much could have kaido really loved himself? Big mom was capable of cladding and yet her mental health was non existent. Iva's words don't seem to even touch on conqueror haki in quite the same way as mihawk's did. This forced therapy session feels like it should be fairly unimportant stuff for someone with a genuine kingly disposition.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 7:35 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 7:33 PM ---

This was probably one of the better ways for Oda to recontextualize the problamatic aspect of Sanji's 2 year training and the resulting "gag". So, hey, kudos for it.

As for the chapter...I mean, I love it. Not much else I can say. It's great character work and, as I expected, puts a cap on Sanji development since WCI.

That's why I'm not upset about how Sanji awakens his SKH. I'm not looking at this as singular instance of him remembering Iva's lesson. I'm looking at his entire arc. The chapter pretty much spells it out. This realization would not have happened if Sanji had not addressed his trauma with his family. Sanji reacts incredibly poorly when he thinks about his family during his training. But now that's not the case. Iva manifesting as Sanji's "nightmare" instead of his father basically confirms he has moved on from them. And without him being in denial regarding them, he can finally take Iva's words to heart.

All that said, Oda's lack of focus on the other Strawhats is pretty awful, lol. Sanji and Brook got crazy focus and Robin got a bit of shine with Saul, so my three faves were treated well this arc.

Am I missing something? This feels pretty consistent with how oda has featured okama kingdom, ivankov and sanji's training.

 

[Prince13333]

@Federicoxxx @Trip_LLL @Prince13333

We all aknowledge the mid-fight epiphany being a classic, and I'm down for it (time constraints and all) but let us not kid ourselves: I'm talking about how it's being handled.

We've had plenty of Sanji character development in the post-timeskip, and this deep rooted trauma thing has been set up, so no problems there. The way Sanji overcomes it is what's ridiculous, at least going by the spoilers: there's no catharsis, no event that allows him to process and change his mindset... He doesn't even make any realization, at least so far, he just decides he's gonna stop devaluing himself.

I do hope this gets fleshed out a bit more and I'm being overly dramatic about the initial stages of the power-up, but so far it's a big "wtf?".

Eh, I don't outright dislike the chapter but this feels too contrived. Is this self love stuff even that adjacent to having a strong sense of self? How much could have kaido really loved himself? Big mom was capable of cladding and yet her mental health was non existent. Iva's words don't seem to even touch on conqueror haki in quite the same way as mihawk's did. This forced therapy session feels like it should be fairly unimportant stuff for someone with a genuine kingly disposition.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 7:35 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 7:33 PM ---

Am I missing something? This feels pretty consistent with how oda has featured okama kingdom, ivankov and sanji's training.

you know you like them breakdance kicks.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That last Sanji panel is so good. Telling a CD his head is too high, lol.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

Nothing else matters in this chap.

PS: Confirmed for the last pirate battle with Teach to be a Davy Back Fight. It's impossible for him to beat a crew with 3 people stronger than a marine admiral with Haoshoku usage in it.

--- Double Post Merged, Today at 7:31 AM, Original Post Date: Today at 7:20 AM ---

I can't say why, but I think the next chapter is going to be about Usopp getting CoC.

Loving the idea, as i said in my previous post... but first, we need a new flashback, a Lily's one when they find out the content of the chest, another one with Imu's memories, and then Usopp at Boin for him to awaken Haoshoku because he needs to recall what it feels to pursue your dream for yourself and not someone else's.

 

[KilgoreTully]

I can't help but wonder if Tim Curry's death affected how Oda wrote this chapter. I'm sure Oda wouldn't change his overall plot, but it's a hell of a coincidence that Curry died on August 25, just when this chapter would be in the early works.

For those who don't know, Iva is based on Curry's arguably most famous character, from the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show. The movie has a wacky cult following that get dressed up and rowdy for midnight showings at indie theaters. They throw stuff at certain points, dance, yell things in response to certain lines, and all sorts of lunacy. Iva's okama are basically a reference to this fandom, which has a ton of LGBTQ folks who celebrate the movie for being so liberating and encouraging people to let their freak flags fly...and love themselves.

Sanji's flashback this chapter being relatively long compared to Zoro's equivalent, and really drilling into Iva's most important lesson being "love thyself", makes me think Oda was, consciously or not, putting in a little extra as a tribute.

 

[aster4jaden]

At this late stage in the game the enemies are "top of the world" in power. What would even be the point of giving her armament haki now? Who would she even fight and win against that would be a top fighter and worthy of the time to read?

The problem for me is it was stated every Vice Admiral and about have the base two Haki, then most Pirate Crews top officers have Haki users and then you have the Strawhat Crew and atleast 6 of its members (I'm including Usopp because nothing has really happened with his Observation Haki) can't use Haki where it as been stressed Haki is important to survive the New World after the Time Skip.

 

[wing_gundam]

This was probably one of the better ways for Oda to recontextualize the problamatic aspect of Sanji's 2 year training and the resulting "gag". So, hey, kudos for it.

As for the chapter...I mean, I love it. Not much else I can say. It's great character work and, as I expected, puts a cap on Sanji development since WCI.

That's why I'm not upset about how Sanji awakens his SKH. I'm not looking at this as singular instance of him remembering Iva's lesson. I'm looking at his entire arc. The chapter pretty much spells it out. This realization would not have happened if Sanji had not addressed his trauma with his family. Sanji reacts incredibly poorly when he thinks about his family during his training. But now that's not the case. Iva manifesting as Sanji's "nightmare" instead of his father basically confirms he has moved on from them. And without him being in denial regarding them, he can finally take Iva's words to heart.

All that said, Oda's lack of focus on the other Strawhats is pretty awful, lol. Sanji and Brook got crazy focus and Robin got a bit of shine with Saul, so my three faves were treated well this arc.

Idk I mean as much as i undestand what Oda's doing and Sanji can have progression, getting CoC from loving yourself while Zoro has been prepared to sacrifice himself no problem since day 1:

- willing to accept he lost from Mihawk and willing to accept death;
- willing to chop off his legs when sealed by Mr 3.
- taking all of luffy's pain from the fight with Moria with a high chance of death

Plus every one of his fights has been to the utter limit - he even saw death in Onishigama. He's reopened his wounds numerous times in order to fight as hard as he can in order to win.

How is that he loves himself more than Sanji already?

Even Luffy has sacrificed his body / defense since the beginning (punching through Don Kreig's spike armour) - it's that exactly the strength of will we've been talking about?

 

[monkey D luffy]

Idk I mean as much as i undestand what Oda's doing and Sanji can have progression, getting CoC from loving yourself while Zoro has been prepared to sacrifice himself no problem since day 1:

- willing to accept he lost from Mihawk and willing to accept death;
- willing to chop off his legs when sealed by Mr 3.
- taking all of luffy's pain from the fight with Moria with a high chance of death

Plus every one of his fights has been to the utter limit - he even saw death in Onishigama. He's reopened his wounds numerous times in order to fight as hard as he can in order to win.

How is that he loves himself more than Sanji already?

Even Luffy has sacrificed his body / defense since the beginning (punching through Don Kreig's spike armour) - it's that exactly the strength of will we've been talking about?

But thats all within his confidence in himself, which sanji lacks. Also, Onigashima was the first time Zoro sustained damage in the new world, every other fight was a curbstomp

 

[XXGenesis]

Mixed, feelings for things I already stated. As I suspected I don’t t love this execution of Sanji’s trauma . Lmao, guess it does answer my question as to why is Sanji receiving so much damage from a bum? While Zoro is on cruise control..

So again, my Oda glaze is limited. I don’t like his execution on a few things!! Not horrible or bad ideas, just its execution is poor imo. Where he shines brilliantly in other areas

 

[kkck]

Looking back at when kuma spread the strawhats around... it continues to be almost too weirdly specific where he sent them. Like, he also immediately saw through sanji and sent him to where they could help with his weakness. Did he really have the foresight for this? Him having it sounds almost like the same amount of BS as it being random. I suppose it can't be random but this is still BS.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The problem for me is it was stated every Vice Admiral and about have the base two Haki, then most Pirate Crews top officers have Haki users and then you have the Strawhat Crew and atleast 6 of its members (I'm including Usopp because nothing has really happened with his Observation Haki) can't use Haki where it as been stressed Haki is important to survive the New World after the Time Skip.

To be fair, the SH crew isn't structured like an organisation which most crews are. Most crews have a hierarchy and responsibilities to lead other subordinates. Luffy's crew don't have subordinates, there is no hierarchy, there is just role. Even Luffy isn't the most important person in the crew, it's literally a group of friends on a journey.

I think the reason why Oda has the SHs with a Grand Fleet and all these allies is so that the crew can be like this, have their own adventures, no responsibilities over some portion of territory and subordinates, they're literally all friends just supporting each other.
The New World requiring Haki is more for the monster trio + they have their allies, and I think the rest are just there to just be them. This is partly what makes the SH crew unique. They just aren't a Pirate crew in the practical sense, they're literally no different to people on a cruise who just happened to become friends, and coincidentally bumping into Pirates and fighting them which makes others see them as Pirates.
They're the worst Pirate crew in the series because they don't act like Pirates.

If SHs and BB Pirates fought, I don't expect Nami to have a serious opponent, I'd imagine someone else would fight just like in Wano where the scabbards were the ones fighting the commanders, the monster trio fought the highest ranks, and the rest of the crew were literally just support. Hyogoro did more than even Usopp, Nami, Brook, etc.