Discussion About multiple Edited Mangas for a single series...

[GGpX]

[eni]The following posts were separated from the Air Gear review thread. [/eni]

It's a manga i thoroughly enjoy and am actually disappointed that more groups aren't Editing it.

Why are you disappointed there aren't more groups doing it?

One group is just fine. They're up to date and do weekly releases.

You don't need to waste tons of people's time (À la Naruto/Bleach) by doing 49459490 Edited Mangas every week while there being only one or two relevant ones.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Air Gear

@sabret00the - Why are you disappointed there aren't more groups doing it?

One group is just fine. They're up to date and do weekly releases.

You don't need to waste tons of people's time (À la Naruto/Bleach) by doing 49459490 Edited Mangas every week while there being only one or two relevant ones.

They are up to date at the moment and never far off at the best of times, but i think more groups would mean more raws, more fans and more choice. not to mention that if you compare Sora Scans versus Kuu, some things are translated differently and that can be important.

 

[GGpX]

Re: Air Gear

More raws? Nope. None of these Manga Editors doing AG scan the stuff themselves, so why would Japanese who are completely oblivious to this and couldn't give two shits about English Edited Mangas make more scans?

More fans? Nope. If fans really like a series, they'll recommend it to even more people, and it's probably not because "20 different Edited Mangas of every chapter have been done XDXDXDXD"

More choice? Sure, but who cares? Leechers don't give a shit about choice. The majority download the first thing they see and that's all they'll need. And if leechers really care, they'll download the fast & shitty Edited Manga and archive the slow, but not as shitty Edited Manga. Everything in the middle is irrelevant, and thus wasting that/those person/people's time. Instead, they should just join one of the groups and help out.

 

[Mooncrow]

Re: Air Gear

Edit: Since my comments were about Air Gear, they don't really fit here any more.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Air Gear

More raws? Nope. None of these Manga Editors doing AG scan the stuff themselves, so why would Japanese who are completely oblivious to this and couldn't give two shits about English Edited Mangas make more scans?

More fans? Nope. If fans really like a series, they'll recommend it to even more people, and it's probably not because "20 different Edited Mangas of every chapter have been done XDXDXDXD"

More choice? Sure, but who cares? Leechers don't give a shit about choice. The majority download the first thing they see and that's all they'll need. And if leechers really care, they'll download the fast & shitty Edited Manga and archive the slow, but not as shitty Edited Manga. Everything in the middle is irrelevant, and thus wasting that/those person/people's time. Instead, they should just join one of the groups and help out.

The raws are released in France on the same week that they're released in Japan. When Binktopia took up Air Gear for a couple chapters, the interest swelled, sometimes it's all about exposure. And you're right, leechers don't give a shit about the choice, but avid followers of the story do. For all i know, your disdain for the manga could come from poor translations, if you get my meaning.

For once I'll have to agree with GG. Oh! can't write to save his life. While Air Gear takes a little longer than Tenjou Tenge to completely jump of the bridge, in the end it takes the same path, from the utterly contrived rape scenes meant to artificially make the reader care, to the nonsensical motivation of the end villains.

The art is beautiful of course, but it's really the only saving grace. I would love to see what would happen if Oh! teamed up with a decent writer for once.

As for the scan group discussion, take it elsewhere please.

We'll see, i don't follow TT in order to have my mind made up about Oh!G, but i do follow Air Gear and i can say that it's far from a case of bad writing. at times i've cursed Ogure out for his writing, but he's neatly managed to dove tail it, maybe not to the quality of Oda but he's done a good job. There are far worse writers out there. At least Oh!G seems to know where he's going with his story, the same really can't be said for the likes of Kishi and Kubo, two of the biggest shonen writers out.

 

[GGpX]

Re: Air Gear

The raws are released in France on the same week that they're released in Japan. When Binktopia took up Air Gear for a couple chapters, the interest swelled, sometimes it's all about exposure. And you're right, leechers don't give a shit about the choice, but avid followers of the story do. For all i know, your disdain for the manga could come from poor translations, if you get my meaning.

Whether there are French Edited Mangas or not is irrelevant. English Edited Mangas don't use French translations (That I know of) and they don't use the French's raws or cleans. So all in all, it doesn't matter.

When Bink picked it up, it didn't make the series more interesting, it just gave temporary attention to the series. A lot of people like Bink. So they see Bink pick it up and think "Oh, they're doing Air Gear too!?". The actual interest in the series was unchanged. The two current Edited Manga groups doing it (Well, 1 now seeing as Kuu is as good as dead) are basicaly unknown & unheard of outside of Air Gear circles and people who know the staff (like me).

And, no, most avid followers also don't care. Ask a bunch of Naruto's or Bleach's avid followers if they read more than 3 different Edited Mangas (Shitty scan -> Bink -> JapFlap/Max7). How many of them read JoeChong's one man, one time Edited Manga of Naruto? A very, very small percentage of people actually notice the existance of JoeChong's Edited Manga, even less read it.

SnoopyCool had good translations. Scum-Scans had good translations (before they changed translators). I didn't bother going further than that, because honestly, the series sucked. I'd much rather look at the raws, with the nice drawings, where I can't understand anything. At least then I'd enjoy it a little.

 

[Mooncrow]

Re: Air Gear

Sorry, apparently I wasn't clear before; take the scan group discussion someplace where it's relevant.

And I'm sorry sabre, I have to disagree. I don't believe that he has any clue at all where he's going, and if he does, his constant thematic contradictions and mis-characterizations become even more egregious crimes.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Air Gear

Whether there are French Edited Mangas or not is irrelevant. English Edited Mangas don't use French translations (That I know of) and they don't use the French's raws or cleans. So all in all, it doesn't matter.

When Bink picked it up, it didn't make the series more interesting, it just gave temporary attention to the series. A lot of people like Bink. So they see Bink pick it up and think "Oh, they're doing Air Gear too!?". The actual interest in the series was unchanged. The two current Edited Manga groups doing it (Well, 1 now seeing as Kuu is as good as dead) are basicaly unknown & unheard of outside of Air Gear circles and people who know the staff (like me).

And, no, most avid followers also don't care. Ask a bunch of Naruto's or Bleach's avid followers if they read more than 3 different Edited Mangas (Shitty scan -> Bink -> JapFlap/Max7). How many of them read JoeChong's one man, one time Edited Manga of Naruto? A very, very small percentage of people actually notice the existance of JoeChong's Edited Manga, even less read it.

SnoopyCool had good translations. Scum-Scans had good translations (they changed translators). I didn't bother going further than that, because honestly, the series sucked. I'd much rather look at the raws, with the nice drawings, where I can't understand anything. At least then I'd enjoy it a little.

Just to be clear, 90% of the raw's that have hit the net post-kuu have come from France. The raws aren't written in French, they're merely released in France.

Basically, i think we have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it's a good series, under exposed and i think the Kuu translations were/are better than the Sora Scans one, which helped the series a lot. I also think the quality of the raws/releases can affect a series.

I like the writing in Air Gear, i like the consistency and the direction. I know a lot of people who bitched during the training arc, because the story went beyond the scope of their imagination. As i've seen it in this thread, people look for reasons to shit on Oh!G and ignore the work. What he's done previously shouldn't matter, the fact is, he's writing a story that flows well and makes sense. You can't fault him for that. Not liking the story is a very different thing from it being a waste of paper.

Sorry, apparently I wasn't clear before; take the scan group discussion someplace where it's relevant.

Please stop trying to order people around. The scan group discussion is relevant, in that interpretation of the events matters. It's like reading Shakespeare in modern English.

I don't believe that he has any clue at all where he's going, and if he does, his constant thematic contradictions and mis-characterizations become even more egregious crimes.

Examples?

 

[eni]

Re: Ideas about Edited Mangas

The posts above where separated from the Air Gear review thread. You can discuss the (multiple) Edited Manga issue here further BUT - no bashing groups, translators and series. You know the rules, guys!

Be nice. Any flaming or bashing and we'll close this topic for good.

 

[fxu]

Correction:

Bink "sort of" picked it up. It was a joint with Kuu-Scans... but seeing as Artie hasn't appeared in a while, I guess the cleans will be laying in the staff forum without a trans.

I rather see one decent group on a manga, than seeing 500 mediocre groups. I also agree that sometimes when groups that are more "out there" pick up a project, they can get more people interested in the series.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

I like to think that if the massive amount of people doing the more mainstream series dispersed a bit we'd see lesser known series like Jaguar or Bari Haken, heck maybe even some seinen like Steel Ball Run get some more scans out.

but as always, i live in ideal world

 

[sabret00the]

Correction:

Bink "sort of" picked it up. It was a joint with Kuu-Scans... but seeing as Artie hasn't appeared in a while, I guess the cleans will be laying in the staff forum without a trans.

I rather see one decent group on a manga, than seeing 500 mediocre groups. I also agree that sometimes when groups that are more "out there" pick up a project, they can get more people interested in the series.

Thanks, i always just assumed that you guys stopped with the lack of public translations available.

I like to think that if the massive amount of people doing the more mainstream series dispersed a bit we'd see lesser known series like Jaguar or Bari Haken, heck maybe even some seinen like Steel Ball Run get some more scans out.

but as always, i live in ideal world

I think this is what it all comes down to. While i like the idea of more than one group taking on a series, [i actually feel it can lead to god complexes and complacency,] i think that if some of the efforts were redistributed then it's make a huge difference. that said, some people manage to rope their friends in based on the series and some people use popular series in order to build a base following for their group.

personally i'd love to see more series out there available for consumption, both Mangashare and Mangaupdates have done a lot for me in getting the word and availability of different series' out, but you get a feeling like it could, given the chance, extend beyond what's currently available. even on mangashare, from what i see, we're only really seeing the same fifteen series' posted up. i'd love to see a lot more, a lot more variety. i'd also like to see some more adult series' (not necessarily ******, though i wouldn't mind if it meant it's bring in other series' too) posted up.

i guess in terms of sites like mangaupdates and mangashare, i feel that the bigger the sites, the more manga to view, then you get more people who were once only naruto/bleach-heads checking out new stuff and pimping their new interests.

if that makes sense, i feel like i just rambled.

---

Great news, looks like Franky House have picked Air Gear up.

 

[wade69]

I hate it when another group picks up a manga thats already being scanlated and has decent quality and releases. Theres no point at all to do it, unless they want to piss the other group off or just try and get more popularity or something like that.

Most speed Edited Mangas = shit anyway. At least with Sora scans there cleans and typeset don't look like they were done in 2 seconds. Competition is pointless and stupid, pretty much saying who has [eni]...not on a kidsfriendly forum, please *edits* [/eni]

 

[eni]

You have a point. When you put work and sweat (and often also money by buying mags and tanks) into bringing a certain series to the fans and than someone else does the same - it's a like a punch in the face and also a waste of resources, imho.

There are plenty of series in need of Manga Editors which are on the same story/art quality as the series with multiple groups. The main concern should be to support the manga/mangaka and not to push the group name (no offense to any specific group). The group - as much as I appreciate the work - is not the center of the Edited Manga, the manga and it's creator is. As long as an active group is working on a series, I agree that there's no need to interfere with their work. In reallife, the manga also have only one publisher.

And also, as for the "stealing popular projects from other groups"-topic: If a group stays steady with the chosen projects and doesn't bitch towards both, manga(ka) and leechers, they'll earn a lot of gratitude just by keeping up with the series from the first to the last chapter - be it mainstream, underground or niches manga. Some have a larger, some a smaller fanbase but who cares? Important is only that the group has fun doing this project, that they're able to support it and bring it to the western fans. Of course, the fun gets spoiled a lot when you see that your work is suddenly taken by others, especially after you grew on a project.

 

[sabret00the]

I get your points but with say SoraScans for example. When Binktopia started doing Air Gear, it was to a higher quality than what was regularly available and as such SoraScans upped their game.

Then you look at the speed scans that have come out recently from FH. No ones saying the quality is a step up, though i do believe they like the fact they've maintained their greys. However seeing the different translations (last week their were two), it helps to provide the readers with a greater insight into the story that can't be faulted.

In my opinion, every manga should have two groups Editing at a minimum and five max. I fail to see how that hurts the community.

 

[Digitalr]

You have a point. When you put work and sweat (and often also money by buying mags and tanks) into bringing a certain series to the fans and than someone else does the same - it's a like a punch in the face and also a waste of resources, imho.

There are plenty of series in need of Manga Editors which are on the same story/art quality as the series with multiple groups. The main concern should be to support the manga/mangaka and not to push the group name (no offense to any specific group). The group - as much as I appreciate the work - is not the center of the Edited Manga, the manga and it's creator is. As long as an active group is working on a series, I agree that there's no need to interfere with their work. In reallife, the manga also have only one publisher.

And also, as for the "stealing popular projects from other groups"-topic: If a group stays steady with the chosen projects and doesn't bitch towards both, manga(ka) and leechers, they'll earn a lot of gratitude just by keeping up with the series from the first to the last chapter - be it mainstream, underground or niches manga. Some have a larger, some a smaller fanbase but who cares? Important is only that the group has fun doing this project, that they're able to support it and bring it to the western fans. Of course, the fun gets spoiled a lot when you see that your work is suddenly taken by others, especially after you grew on a project.

Then what if part of your fun is seeing quite a lot of people download your releases, I can tell you that if another group released it before you.. You'll have a lot less downloads, for some it encourages them to work harder but for others it has the opposite effect.
The Air Gear "case" is a bad example though, as lots of groups "stole" the project from each other...
@wade69 it's clear fh has the better cleans here, Sora should just remove the Japanese text and typeset it. It'll look a lot better. But yeah 90% of fh's projects are "stolen" so arguing with them will get you nowhere.

At least get in touch with the other group and ask if they need help or ask why Edited Mangas have slowed down or are going slow, it's friendlier. Or just find another interesting project... There are thousands of manga out there.

Please don't compare a real life publisher with a Manga Editor, it's flawed in so many ways.

 

[hatsuharupeace]

I actually agree with sabert00the here, about manga having at least two groups scanning it. It actually does help the community somewhat, through:

1. Possible different translations being used, which is always useful when trying to interprete different situations, and especially in manga where the meanings of certain lines have different ways of being interpreted.

2. Quality. Now days, people want scans that are of quality. But of course, there's always the speed factor. The masses naturally download the fastest released scans, to soote their desire to know what happens in that chapter. After downloading that scan, most people would then download the more higher quality scan, mainly for archiving, though some people do wait for the higher quality, just to satisfy their need of manga in good quality.

3. Diverse amount of Edited Mangas out there. Always a good thing.

 

[GGpX]

2. Quality. Now days, people want scans that are of quality.

lol

Most ignorant statement I've read in a long time. Not to mention the rest of your post contradicts it. You essentially post everything I'm going to post below, but trying to make believe that people care about quality.

Majority of the people don't care about quality. They just don't.

If they did, why does SleepyFans, JanimeS, Endless-Abyss and Mahou-X get all of the hits they get? Because they're "quality" releases? Bullshit, it's because they released a chapter of the manga in question first. That's it, that's all.

Why is it SleepyFans' weekly Naruto release threads get 15k+ hits, while JapFlap's weekly Naruto release thread gets in the range of ~1.8k hits?

Because people absolutely love those quality releases, right?

Please. People download the first thing that's out, and only a handful of them care enough to download a version to archive.

3. Diverse amount of Edited Mangas out there. Always a good thing.

No, diverse amounts of different mangas are much, MUCH better than various amount of Edited Mangas for the same thing.

But sure, having 17 Air Gear Edited Mangas is more important than having one or two of those group of people working on a new, unknown manga that may interest people. Nah, that's a horrible idea...

 

[eni]

However seeing the different translations (last week their were two), it helps to provide the readers with a greater insight into the story that can't be faulted.

Possible different translations being used, which is always useful when trying to interprete different situations, and especially in manga where the meanings of certain lines have different ways of being interpreted.

I'm sorry, but I miss the advance here. Just because Japanese is a language were you have to interpret a lot while translating doesn't make it necessary to read it by different translators. If it's a good translator, he will catch the meaning and mood well enough.

Just imagining that I would need to look up any translated comics, books and dubbed movies by different translators to grab the full meaning is tiresome. What a author says can be interpreted often in different ways, yes. Even when you read it in the native language - you yourself can interprete it different in your head. Sometimes books gets re-translated (I remember the issue about the different Tolkien translations here in Germany) for different reason but I don't need to read a manga chapter by X different translators to enjoy it. In fact, many mistakes are being made when translator try to be fast to rival with another group which is a issue with many of the groups that pick up others projects because they're seen as too slow.

Famous example from Naruto: SF translated the 8tails having a seven-bladed sword while every other translator spoke of him haven eight swords. Probably just a typo made in the heat of a fast release but since SF's release was the first, many readers started defending SF's translation which was - looking at the RAWs - simply wrong.

Same with the "Tobi: I am Mandara"-issue we had a few month ago. Even sticking the explanation by an experienced translator about what was wrong in the speedtrans didn't help to whip out the false rumour that was going through the forums for weeks. As GGpX says, people want it fast not the careful done works that take a while longer. That's what eeks me the most when I see a series done by speed- and normal way.

Besides the mistakes, personally, I think that many translations of the same thing confuse more than that they help. Using different terms (often choosed by own taste) - why do I need that? I don't want to have a discussion about a manga and everyone uses different terms, names, spelling just because everyone reads from another translator. Things that get translated by the first (accurate) translator don't need to be 100% right, of course. Everyone can make mistakes. But they set a common standard which I find very important.

Then what if part of your fun is seeing quite a lot of people download your releases, I can tell you that if another group released it before you.. You'll have a lot less downloads, for some it encourages them to work harder but for others it has the opposite effect.

That is simple rivality. How does that help the manga? It's just pushing the group in the foreground. If I care for the manga, what do I need to look at the download statistic? It's fun of course to see that you pleasered many people with your work but more important is doing a good job for the manga.

Please don't compare a real life publisher with a Manga Editor, it's flawed in so many ways.

Why's that?

 

[Reactive]

In my opinion, every manga should have two groups Editing at a minimum and five max. I fail to see how that hurts the community.

Are you out of your mind? There's TONS of new and old unscanlated manga out there, also, TONS of dropped mangas, some for months, some for years, having 2-5 groups per manga would destroy our chances of ever reading some good manga that's out there. So yeah, let's have 2-5 groups do a mostly shitty job on ONE manga, why would they bother with other good stuff that's out there ? There's a big lack of staff members in some groups, we all want more cleaners and typesetters and translators to help us scanlate our stuff and pick up some more and release it as a regular basis. They're just too busy helping out doing the same Edited Manga over and over again.

And as GGpX said, people don't really care about quality, they'll just download the first chapter that's out to satisfy their urge to read the next chapter. I also think that another group should pick up a scanlated manga in case they can do a REMARKABLY better job than the others in a somewhat same amount of time. We don't need 5 variations of translations just because some phrase was a lil off, as eni said, it's tiresome to check all the translations and see which is right anyway. If they want bigger (e)penis, then they can go check their spam in their emails, lots of options there.

Offtopic: As for AirGear, it has a flow and makes sense? The first, like 8 volumes or so were fine, the manga had a pretty decent(ish) plot, but it got ruined more and more to the point where Oh!Great turned the sports manga into a Fantasy-Scifi manga. Next thing I know, fairies will pop out. Actually I haven't been reading it in a while, did they already?

[eni]No bashing the manga, ok? Edited some words out. [/eni]