Theory A "What if" Theory [Spoiler Ant Arc]

[zzigg]

i've been thinking of other strategies to defeat the king and meany came up to my mind like

Meleoron's Perfect Plan can in turn be used on any person he is in physical contact with

Knov with his teleportation ability offensively. "Scream" allows him to open a portal in midair and wrap it around his opponent. When the portal closes, whatever is caught within is removed from the body.

with those two they can cut off the kings head ...and finish the others easily 100%..true perfect plan

​

any other perfect plans

 

[futurefrog]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

This plan wont work as the King will sense them with his unbeatable En.

 

[zzigg]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

While holding his breath, Meleoron can use an advanced form of his invisibility, becoming not only invisible, but also becoming completely indetectable by scent, contact, or En. According to him, this completely hides his presence to the point where others would simply overlook him inproximity without being consciously aware of it

 

[GingFuriksu]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

I actually thought of this plan a LONG time ago, but I guess that's why Togashi gave Knov that plot device; he was too mindfucked to even get near the Ants.

 

[cipher]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

I actually thought of this plan a LONG time ago, but I guess that's why Togashi gave Knov that plot device; he was too mindfucked to even get near the Ants.

That's pretty much it, you need a minimum of focus and mental stability to use Nen abilities, when you lose that you end up being unable to use your abilities, the same way Goreinu's gorillas vanished after he got scared because of Razor's throw or that Kastro was unable to use his double to stop the cards after he became unstable because of Hisoka.

Ps: can someone tell me why my posts' format becomes a bit weird every time I edit them, I don't know if it's client sided but it seems like it doesn't use all the line and starts only using half of the space available in the line.

 

[zzigg]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

when you lose that you end up being unable to use your abilities

true..you forgot leol too
..but not all the time
we saw him even in his mental condetion he could use his hid and seek ability..but he couldn't counter the ants face to face with the second ability cuz he will screw things up

 

[Phantron]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

You can't detect Meleoron with En because the whole point is that it is not undetectable, it is that you cannot notice you've detected something while Meleoron's using his ability.

Meryem's aura would have no effect on either Novu or Meleoron in terms of fear because Meryem does not use his aura. You can infer his aura is almost permanently in the 'off' mode, not even a 'standby' mode like the Royals, for the simple reason that there is nobody who is a threat to him so why would he need to stay alert? Sure if he even thinks about getting serious Novu would immediately lose all his hair but why would the mighty Meryem need to worry about weak humans? He didn't even get angry when Komugi was wounded. If he was just sitting in his throne like expected, you'd expect him to give off practically no aura because he simply doesn't feel threatened by human beings at all.

If you cannot materialize a weapon that can cut through anything, likewise you cannot have a technique that can arbitarily remove any object from existence. By the series's limitation 'a very sharp object' is the limit you can do and that's not going to have any effect on Meryem.

 

[zzigg]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

'a very sharp object' is the limit you can do and that's not going to have any effect on Meryem.

why it won't affect him??

 

[mousiehamster]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

It's a portal. It warps space. The whole "technological feasibility" thing is a meaningless limitation. It just means impossible things are impossible. However, creating a mini wormhole is apparently scientifically possible in HxH so...yeah. As is materializing biological lifeforms that somehow stops death from obviously fatal injuries (Indoor Fish).

 

[cipher]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

It's a portal. It warps space. The whole "technological feasibility" thing is a meaningless limitation. It just means impossible things are impossible. However, creating a mini wormhole is apparently scientifically possible in HxH so...yeah. As is materializing biological lifeforms that somehow stops death from obviously fatal injuries (Indoor Fish).

Let's not forget that nen doesn't follow the normal rules of reality, it twists them and bends them with the use of conditions and requirement, so it is perfectly possible to obtain a mini wormhole that has a certain limit to what it can cut or that cannot cut through things of a certain solidity, so we can't really tell unless we have a word from Togashi himself on that point.

 

[GingFuriksu]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

Maybe the condition for Knov's ability - Scream is that to use it on an actual person ( because remember, that's not what that ability was intended to do from the beginning ) they have to be either, as strong as you, or weaker? What do you guys think? Because saying that Knov can use that ability on ANYBODY brings up the same argument - You can't create a sword that cuts through everything.

 

[Phantron]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

Maybe the condition for Knov's ability - Scream is that to use it on an actual person ( because remember, that's not what that ability was intended to do from the beginning ) they have to be either, as strong as you, or weaker? What do you guys think? Because saying that Knov can use that ability on ANYBODY brings up the same argument - You can't create a sword that cuts through everything.

Usually 'works on anything' condition itself has a condition that prevents it from being 'anything'. For example Shalunark can control anyone that he can stick an antennae inside, but antennae is made out of material that wouldn't penetrate the carapace of a grunt Ant, let alone Meryem, so unless Meryem was already wounded by someone else there's no way Shalunark's ability would work, but if Meryem was already wounded somehow then it has to be the case that Shalunark can control him if he somehow can stick the antennae in the wound.

But in Novu's case his ability would have no side restriction like that. If it can simply cut through anything then it'd be equivalent of creating a sword that can cut through anything which is never allowed. So to be consistent with powers in HXH it'd have to be equiavalent of a 'very sharp object', which is enough to cut off the head of a grunt Ant but would clearly have no effect on Meryem.

BTW the best strategy to defeat Meryem would be to have Novu teleport Meryem into his pocket dimension with Meleoron's help (this is clearly possible, Pufu in particular was worried about such a possibility), and have a guy waiting inside with a Rose and blow himself up the moment Meryem goes in, and have that room with only one exit that leads to another room in real life that also has a guy waiting with a Rose as backup.

 

[zzigg]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

BTW the best strategy to defeat Meryem would be to have Novu teleport Meryem into his pocket dimension with Meleoron's help (this is clearly possible, Pufu in particular was worried about such a possibility), and have a guy waiting inside with a Rose and blow himself up the moment Meryem goes in, and have that room with only one exit that leads to another room in real life that also has a guy waiting with a Rose as backup.

nice ...but seriously who would sacrifice himself like that...it would be good without sacrificing humans...what about setting the bomb with a timer ..and calculate the time between teleporting the king and the activation of the rose...that would be better.

but if we followed the story..here netero's selfishness will not allow him to let this strong opponent slip through his fingers..he was waiting too long to face such appointment..so he will use the old strategy of keeping the king for himself.

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

they have to be either, as strong as you, or weaker? What do you guys think?

that prety much like it..maybe he has this natural mesureing system...alowing him to know the opponment level In comparison with his own level 'like knukle'

 

[mousiehamster]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

But in Novu's case his ability would have no side restriction like that. If it can simply cut through anything then it'd be equivalent of creating a sword that can cut through anything which is never allowed.

Exactly why can't that be "allowed"? Are black holes real? Yes. A black hole is a singularity with infinite density. It's gravitational attraction is so strong that within a certain distance, even light cannot escape and therefore, nothing can. Anything that gets sucked into a black hole is mashed to infinite density as well. So even scientifically, it's possible for something to "destroy anything."

The whole 'blade that cannot cut through anything' restriction was just used to illustrate that Nen cannot do something that is impossible i.e. it isn't magic. Sadly what is or isn't possible or impossible is very open in HxH. I guess it's scientifically impossible to travel back in time so Nen cannot do that but the limitation is utterly meaningless in a sci-fi universe set in HxH - heck in many sci-fi works of fiction, time travel IS possible.

The only reason why it would be absurd for Novu's ability to work against everything is because it would do infinite damage which seems contrary to the whole risk/reward thing seeing that he could materialize it upon will and the guy would actually be pants-shittingly powerful, even though he was shitting his pants in the presence of Pitou.

 

[GingFuriksu]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

Exactly why can't that be "allowed"? Are black holes real? Yes. A black hole is a singularity with infinite density. It's gravitational attraction is so strong that within a certain distance, even light cannot escape and therefore, nothing can. Anything that gets sucked into a black hole is mashed to infinite density as well. So even scientifically, it's possible for something to "destroy anything."

The whole 'blade that cannot cut through anything' restriction was just used to illustrate that Nen cannot do something that is impossible i.e. it isn't magic. Sadly what is or isn't possible or impossible is very open in HxH. I guess it's scientifically impossible to travel back in time so Nen cannot do that but the limitation is utterly meaningless in a sci-fi universe set in HxH - heck in many sci-fi works of fiction, time travel IS possible.

The only reason why it would be absurd for Novu's ability to work against everything is because it would do infinite damage which seems contrary to the whole risk/reward thing seeing that he could materialize it upon will and the guy would actually be pants-shittingly powerful, even though he was shitting his pants in the presence of Pitou.

I just think that Knov's ability is like a black hole. I mean... you think a normal Human, especially in the Hunter Universe can create an actual black hole !? >.>

 

[futurefrog]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

Did you guys consider that the King could live on without his head? I mean he is an ant.

 

[GingFuriksu]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

Did you guys consider that the King could live on without his head? I mean he is an ant.

Wasn't that the only way you could kill an ant though?

Excluding poisons and shit like that, obviously.

 

[Phantron]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

nice ...but seriously who would sacrifice himself like that...it would be good without sacrificing humans...what about setting the bomb with a timer ..and calculate the time between teleporting the king and the activation of the rose...that would be better.

The whole assault was pretty much a suicide mission anyway so it's not going to be hard to find someone willing sacrifice himself. Your only concern would be what if Meryem could knock whoever you have unconscious before he can set the bomb off (KO someone would prevent even bombs set to trigger on someone's death and Meryem is more than capable of KOing almost anyone). You can't really do a timer because you'd have no idea how long it'd take, if ever, to bring Meryem in. That said you could just throw a canister of the Rose poison in the room a few minutes before fighting, and assuming the poison stays in the air for a reasonable amount of time that ought to be good enough.

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

Exactly why can't that be "allowed"? Are black holes real? Yes. A black hole is a singularity with infinite density. It's gravitational attraction is so strong that within a certain distance, even light cannot escape and therefore, nothing can. Anything that gets sucked into a black hole is mashed to infinite density as well. So even scientifically, it's possible for something to "destroy anything."

The whole 'blade that cannot cut through anything' restriction was just used to illustrate that Nen cannot do something that is impossible i.e. it isn't magic. Sadly what is or isn't possible or impossible is very open in HxH. I guess it's scientifically impossible to travel back in time so Nen cannot do that but the limitation is utterly meaningless in a sci-fi universe set in HxH - heck in many sci-fi works of fiction, time travel IS possible.

The only reason why it would be absurd for Novu's ability to work against everything is because it would do infinite damage which seems contrary to the whole risk/reward thing seeing that he could materialize it upon will and the guy would actually be pants-shittingly powerful, even though he was shitting his pants in the presence of Pitou.

Um he point is that something that does infinite damage cannot be possible AT ALL no matter what the risk is, because if it was possible you'd also be able to have an equally high risk that defends against 'infinite damage' and you'd run into a logical paradox. If you want to go that way Meryem can defend against a black hole by creating an anti black hole given he is more talented than any human alive.

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Did you guys consider that the King could live on without his head? I mean he is an ant.

The Ants have the 'continue fighting while fatally wounded' innate attribute. It doesn't mean they can survive indefinitely without their head. If you cut their head off they will die eventually (in a day or two, like Kite says). They might still be able to bite you with their severed head which is why you still have to be careful even if you decapitated one of them, but they will definitely die eventually. Pitou almost lost conscious from the impact of Gon's fist, showing that Ants still have normal reactions to taking damage, even though their tolerance for damage is extremely high.

 

[IamJacky]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

I think this is a fun theory. Let's suppose that Novu and Meleron are not scared shitless and manage to execute this plan flawlessly, Meryem would still have enough time to react. Of course, he will not sense the two approaching at all, that is up until the moment his head enters a different dimension, by then even with little time there is left before the portal closes, I believe Meryem will be faster to react with just fractions of moment.

Of course that is just my assumption.

I have to agree with the "Sword that cuts through anything" agreement. I mean, a black hole is scientifically possible yes, but it is humanly impossible. There're other Nen abilities that seem humanly impossible, but to create an offensive portal that cuts through anything is just too far fetched IMO.

I think the portal only works on weaker perceived opponents, whom Novu "feels" he's capable of moving.

The dimension he created by the way, are all made of his Nen, within the maximum capabilities of his Nen, I don't think he will be able to "move" Meryem's head into his Nen-created space, and cut off from the rest of Meryem's body. That would have been an impossible task for Novu.

Yeah I know, there aren't anything from the manga to back up my argument, just a thought.

If the portal really cuts off his head then so be it. Hey, maybe he'd still survive because in Meryem 2.0 he can transform his cells; or maybe he just dies and Nen transforms himself into something entirely differently.

Oh and the rose bomb idea. Also I feel that Novu's mind cannot take a rose bomb within his nen-created space. I don't know why, just doesn't feel right for me.

 

[Phantron]

Re: a what if theory.....'' ''spoiler ''ant arc'''''

I think this is a fun theory. Let's suppose that Novu and Meleron are not scared shitless and manage to execute this plan flawlessly, Meryem would still have enough time to react. Of course, he will not sense the two approaching at all, that is up until the moment his head enters a different dimension, by then even with little time there is left before the portal closes, I believe Meryem will be faster to react with just fractions of moment.

Of course that is just my assumption.

I have to agree with the "Sword that cuts through anything" agreement. I mean, a black hole is scientifically possible yes, but it is humanly impossible. There're other Nen abilities that seem humanly impossible, but to create an offensive portal that cuts through anything is just too far fetched IMO.

I think the portal only works on weaker perceived opponents, whom Novu "feels" he's capable of moving.

The dimension he created by the way, are all made of his Nen, within the maximum capabilities of his Nen, I don't think he will be able to "move" Meryem's head into his Nen-created space, and cut off from the rest of Meryem's body. That would have been an impossible task for Novu.

Yeah I know, there aren't anything from the manga to back up my argument, just a thought.

If the portal really cuts off his head then so be it. Hey, maybe he'd still survive because in Meryem 2.0 he can transform his cells; or maybe he just dies and Nen transforms himself into something entirely differently.

Oh and the rose bomb idea. Also I feel that Novu's mind cannot take a rose bomb within his nen-created space. I don't know why, just doesn't feel right for me.

Well if Novu can create a portal that cuts through anything then it is equally possible for Meryem to create a force field that blocks the portal that can cut through anything. In fact it'd be far easier since his base stat is way higher than anybody so it'd take him less effort to create the equivalent of 'anti infinite damage' compared to a human doing 'infinite damage'.

That said Novu can probably create a hole in the ground that teleports Meryem to his pocket dimension, and in there you can have a lot of interesting strategy (indeed this is what Pufu is most worried about). Assuming Novu's ability combos the same way as Knuckles did with Meleoron's, then we can say that the portal itself would be undetectable the same way Potclean is undetectable while Meleoron's ability is active, so Meryem wouldn't be able to avoid what's basically a hole in the ground because he wouldn't be able to sense anything wrong with the ground due to Meleoron's ability.

It's shown that Novu stores all kinds of supplies in his pocket dimension (drinks, books, etc), so I don't see why storing a Rose in there would be a problem. Even if blowing up the pocket dimension somehow harms Novu, we know that they're all on a suicide mission anyway and if you're just trying to get the job done, it's obviously better to blow Meryem up while he's in Novu's pocket dimension, killing whoever set off the bomb + possibly Novu (if the destruction of the dimension affects him), as opposed to blowing up Netero. As long as the pocket dimension is truly isolated space it's perfectly safe to blow whatever you want up in there. As an additional countermeasure, make sure you take Meryem to a room that only has one exit (these rooms exist) and the exit is a spot where you can ambush Meryem again if he somehow gets out of the room (easiest way would be just knock whoever has the bomb unconscious).