I do too but keeping my optimism up is one of the last threard still bringing me back to the manga itself, so...
Keep up the good "In"fight.
Ur overthinking this buddy. Even if there wasn't In Gyo would obviously still exist because it has more to do with just focusing nen to your eyes. I really think he just did it to make it so nen users couldn't just see everything with nen and would actually need something like gyo in the eyes to help them and be useful in nen fighting.
I'm sorry but how does knuckles ability ruin the Nen system? If anything it made it more understandable than ever before. Sure I can see why assigning "power levels" to ppl when it comes to nen capacity can be problematic but I don't see how that ruins Nen. And even then you really only have to worry about the numbers when Knuckle is actually fighting, with everyone else you can just infer their power without numbers.
I'm telling you it has to be mental suppression the same way you mentally contain your aura with Ten.
Have you read the title of this thread?
LOL.Have you read the title of this thread?
It's irrelevant bcuz we can't know how it works until togashi tells us, so there's no point except just to guess.Have you read the title of this thread?
"Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works"
Ok, I believe you Senpai
, you've read it. But I disagree with you on this; they are relevant, because it was told that one is an application of the other.
Ok and we have given you multiple examples on how In possibly works so whats the problem?"Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works"
What Togashi told us is there too. We're just discussing the missing links if things doesn't fit. I don't see what is wrong with that.
Ok, I believe you Senpai
That is true (Kou, Ryuu, Little Flower etc. use Gyou), but there are two questions still left unanswered; Why Gyou in eyes breaks In? Why should there be a specific application of Gyo in the eyes in the first place if En can break In too?
I believe this to be too much. Suppress your opened pores like they are closed? Isn´t that actually closing them? I think you are overreaching too much to justify the In faults.
Well, it is not Knuckle´s ability per se, but the concepts that came to existence with it. Potential aura, actualized aura, characterizing Nen with numbers, attributing numerical values to attacks - this it what I am talking about (but hardly all). The numbers in other fights are not directly referenced but are still there, hell the whole "you can´t tell who wins in Nen fight based on their aura alone" is the number system in a nutshell
You keep saying that we don´t know how it works, but seeing your explanations isn´t it better to follow Occam´s Razor (simplest explanation being the best - In is wrong)? Anyway, how does that work on a conjured self-sustainable object that is cut off from you and has no aura to begin with? - THIS is the issue I am targeting.
That would be fine and well if it weren´t for In being application of Zetsu AND why In works on conjured items - THIS is where "how" becomes the vital piece of puzzle. Reading recent pages gives me the impression that "HOWS" are incredibly relevant.
I won´t speak for others but as for me; your conjectures on the subject were somewhat lacking in reliability. Basically they failed to convince me. Let me reiterate my gripes with In again.
Hum, you're right about it. Regarding that, I still believe Togashi totally fucked up at first with Nen. Not like messing on purpose, more like it wasn't that strong the idea on his head yet.Ok, I believe you Senpai
Conjured item are still made of aura. "Solid" aura if you want, but is still aura. And it's not about "not seeing them" but not being able to feel as it's actually aura.
You and Ener9y are prying into this too hard, it's almost like you are out to prove togashi is a fool for In and are just not paying attention to reason. You say that Gyo "breaks" In but that's a poor choice of words. Remember in the Heavens arena when Zushi used gyo he could only see some of Hisoka's strands while Killua could see more, which proves that there are different intensities to both (which further supports the mental suppression theory).
In is only an advanced application of Zetsu because it uses the same principal (dull/suppress) but doesn't actually use Zetsu physically (the act of closing pores) which is why it must require mental control like Ten.
If conjured items are solid aura as you say, then you can see them through with Gyou or even bare eyed provided you have Nen pores awakened. In Kortopi´s/Killua´s case had Killua used Gyou he would have seen the real hideout, which is bad in a hindsight, because Ryodan knew Killua and Gon knew Nen, so why would they use conjuration that would be seen through? Also if he had In on the conjured items, then the items would be invisible, since when Kurapika placed In on his chains then the chains themselves became invisible. This leads me to believe that Conjured items are not a solid aura. You change your aura into a material thing, albeit with special abilities.
In isn´t bad per se, but the origins and the execution of it are sorely lacking. If there are levels of Gyou (which, going by the example you use, there most definitely are), then how are they differentiated? By the amount of aura gathered in the eyes (imagine Meruem focusing all of his aura, probably in millions, into his eyes), or the quality of the aura (I think we had this kind of discussion before), then how do you determine the said quality of aura? Then this leads to a valid reasoning that there must be levels to "In", but then again why would Hisoka use an "In" that can be seen through by a Nen user with a minimal amount of skill/experience?
Mental suppression is okay, but Zetsu is closing your nodes, how does that translate into changing the visibility of your aura? The Zeno example is bad, the hostility lowering is connected to the enmity, spiritual side of Nen not a technical one. Zetsu for the n-th time is not dulling your aura, it is closing off your nodes, which RESULTS in not leaking your aura outside, it does not change the property of your aura that is inside you.
I think they sai they have a bad feeling about that scythe, which doesn´t necessarily pertain to Nen. If Conjured items project an aura of the user then when does that item run out of said aura? Remember the discussion Ryodan had about Chain user´s ability? The whole thing would be moot because with just one Gyou, or even without it since the nen users can naturally see aura with no In on it, the nature of the ability would be made apparent. Hell, if the aura projecting were true, then Machi would have seen the aura as Uvo was being kidnapped by Kurapika!
Let me pose you a simple question; If Gon gathers 500 aura in his fist and Netero gathers 500 aura in his fist, provided that the force of the punching motions are the same, which attack would be stronger? About forgetting the principals of Nen, I was talking about you, you can´t simply disregard the inner working of Nen at your convenience - since you said that we should disregard them at unrelevant times.
If the In doesn´t use Zetsu physically then why is it considered an application of Zetsu, since THE ONLY THING ZETSU DOES IS CLOSING YOUR NODES, the dulling part is just your delusion, the quality of the aura is unchanged when in Zetsu, it just doesn´t come out - this is still unanswered in 4 pages! Well all Nen is controlled mentally, there is a spiritual influence but not control.
This paragraph doesn't make any sense. How are you able to see thru a conjured object with gyo? You can only see it with gyo if it's invisible you don't see thru it, unless it's invisible with In and you don't use gyo. I'm confused as to what point you were trying to get across here.
Different levels of gyo are solely determined by how much aura you put around your eyes (and probably if you were using ren or ken), but if you put all of it it wouldn't be gyo anymore it would be kou. Anyway that's not even necessary seeing how you don't need much to see thru In if you are skilled enough. They main reason to even use In is to throw off the fools who don't use gyo all the time in a fight, and there are apparently a lot of them. Hell even Gon and Killua never used gyo that often until biscuits training.
http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Nen#Zetsu
I'm sorry but what? Conjured items do project the users aura like when Uvo felt the intense aura within kurapika's chains but that doesn't prove kurapika was a conjurer. He could have been either a manipulator or conjurer. We know for a fact that Uvo felt the aura in kurapika's chains and Gon and Killua definitely felt the aura of the scythe. They aren't gonna say it's dangerous just because he whipped out some regular scythe.
Well all nen does is increase your own physical attributes so if they punch at the same speed, with the same amount of aura then it will either cancel out or maybe whoever is physically stronger will overpower the other. Who knows really, I think old netero post med is probably physically stronger than gon so he would win but i doubt he would do much damage with that weak of an attack.
For the millionth time it uses the CONCEPT of Zetsu to mentally suppress the users aura, NOT THE PHYSICAL APPLICATION. That is why its an ADVANCED application of the CONCEPT of Zetsu. I've given you the same answer plenty of times and you are just ignoring the facts when they are right in front of your face.
see through [Object]!= see [Object] through. Basically with Gyou one should see the aura of the conjured item, or even with bare eyes provided they have nen pores awakened, if the conjured items have aura as you say.
Gyou in the example of Zushi was still Gyo even if he concentrated all of his aura in his eyes. Kou is more than Gyou with all your aura. What does "skilled enough to see through In" entail? How much of aura one needs to gather in the eyes to see through In? Why Zushi couldn´t see all the threads but Killua and Gon could?You didn´t address that or anything.
I told you Zetsu closes nodes, don´t confuse the meaning of Kanji with the actual usage. Zetsu doesn´t change the property of your aura, it just stops it from leaking out. Zetsu doesn´t suppress your aura in any way at all. You still didn´t address anything.
Uvo didn´t sense any Nen at all from the chains. He was caught by Kurapika and he couldn´t break the chains at all. At that point he should have felt the aura, if the chains had any, which he didn´t. Then when the rematch comes, he says that the chain user must have infused the chains with some incredible Nen, since he couldn´t break them. Yet again you didn´t address anything.
The winner would be Netero. All Gon has going for him is the Enhancer quality of his aura. On the other hand Netero´s aura has been commented to have an unreal quality of it (by a very experienced Hunter Morel/Morau nonetheless). It is like going with a bronze sword against a steel sword. The shapes and the volume are the same, but the quality of the material is vastly different. The said quality of the aura is not represented in the numbers, which is the first fault of the number system Togashi uses.
For the n-th plus one time Zetsu doesn´t suppress the aura at all. If Zetsu would change the property of one´s aura (dulling, suppressing, what have you), then that would be Transmutation. I do know from the functional standpoint that Zetsu "hides" the aura, but it is not the effect of Zetsu, but the result. I've given you [the definition of Zetsu] plenty of times and you are just ignoring the facts when they are right in front of your face. Also you didn´t address anything. Are you even reading my posts? I provide counterexamples to your points which show inconsistencies in your statements, yet you leave them unanswered, which actually leads me to believe you have nothing to disprove them or something.