Final Acnologia vs. Ignia

[Kiki]

Voting Rules:

• This Battle is a 1 vs 1.
• You may vote for one character in this fight.
• So you voted early and someone/something changed your mind? You can use the 'Change Vote' option to choose again.

Voting and Discussion ends: September 11th, 2022

Characters	Info and limitations
Acnologia	In human form
Ignia	In human form

 

[grey matter]

Acnologia and Ignia are both brute fighters, so I expect them to be relative in physical stats.

Acno is immune to Ignia's magic attacks, but Ignia can still use his magic to defend himself from Acnologia's spells.

Ultimately, being immune to magic is better than not having it. He is also able to regain stamina from environment itself, as well as any residual flames from Ignia's attacks.

Acnologia wins with high-extreme diff. Will be a repeat of Acnologia vs Igneel, except both are in human forms

 

[Darklord#10]

I don't think there's a clear cut winner in this fight, but I'm going with @grey matter here. Acnologia wins extremely high diff

 

[Orphan Prince]

I'm arguing for Acnologia in a high-extreme diff fight for a one handed Acno, around mid-high diff if Acno has both arms. Ignia is a brute fighter, but Acnologia is the same, but a bigger tank likely with better physicals, I'm not fully convinced that DG's are >=Acnologia but are still in the same tier.

There is no magical spell that Ignia can cast that would really do anything to Acnologia which greatly favors him. Ignia needs to keep close distance to Acnologia in order to fight him due to magical attacks being useless, meanwhile, Acnologia himself could create distance and cast devastating spells which could deal massive damage to Ignia and Acno could also eat Ignia's fire to power himself up, every magical attack Ignia throws could only serve to amp Acno and feed him. But, only having one arm would make physical combat more difficult (hence my high-extreme diff for one handed Acno).

Either way, Acno takes this. I'm sure if Ignia was 100% confident he could defeat Acnologia, he would have seeked him out during Alvarez (or even beforehand), the only (in-universe) explanation is that Ignia wasn't as confident as he seemed, and we can assume in the alternate future of Future Rogue's timeline, Acnologia has either killed the five DG's or they remained in hiding.

 

[LaGOAT]

Acno extreme diff

 

[grey matter]

I'm arguing for Acnologia in a high-extreme diff fight for a one handed Acno, around mid-high diff if Acno has both arms. Ignia is a brute fighter, but Acnologia is the same, but a bigger tank likely with better physicals, I'm not fully convinced that DG's are >=Acnologia but are still in the same tier.

I think it would be a high-extreme diff even if Acno had both hands.
Igneel managed to give him one.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have never thought of the implication of Acno having only one arm.
It didn't matter in Alverass, since everyone were one shot material for him. But here, it should make a difference right? Especially given than Ignia is also likely a physical monster (like Natsu and Igneel are, if he is similar to them)

Can Ignia actually win this?
I think missing one arm might even out the advantage from magic immunity, if they are relative in pure stats

@Kiki
Does Acno have both hands, or just one hand?

Either way, Acno takes this. I'm sure if Ignia was 100% confident he could defeat Acnologia, he would have seeked him out during Alvarez (or even beforehand), the only (in-universe) explanation is that Ignia wasn't as confident as he seemed, and we can assume in the alternate future of Future Rogue's timeline, Acnologia has either killed the five DG's or they remained in hiding.

Real explanation is that Mashima pulled these dragons outta his ass lmao.

Acno could smell dragons across a continent, even if they stayed hidden, he would still find out.

Funny thing is, Acno found out Aldoron and destroyed him. But like with Serena, he failed to finish the job. Which doesn't make any sense lol, Acno has the best senses in the world, he would know if someone is truly dead or not

 

[Orphan Prince]

I think it would be a high-extreme diff even if Acno had both hands.
Igneel managed to give him one.

I kindly disagree, I don't think Ignia is equal to Igneel or Acnologia as we have no real proof of this, just statements from people who would have zero information on how strong Acnologia actually was at the time of his death, we have statements from Elfseria who logically shouldn't know how strong Acno was pre RoT and Ignia who is so arrogant that his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt (especially considering he didn't actively seek Acno out, implying that he was hesitant to.)

Yes, I'm willing to give the DG's the benefit of the doubt and place them within the same tier, but I believe they are mid-high diff material for Acnologia (if he has both arms) considering the significant advantage that he has (his immunity, his devastating attacks, his sheer physical strength of tearing through Dragons left and right, we know Ignia can take multiple Dragons at once by scaling alone, but we don't know if he's physically strong enough to rip through them like Acno did 400+ years ago, and he's only grown stronger since then). I've mentioned how difficult doing combat with Acnologia would be and the difficulties he'd face himself if he's one-handed. Acnologia himself can keep distance and throw powerful attacks at Ignia, meanwhile Ignia needs to get in close to Acnologia, and Acno ain't gonna let that happen (especially if he only has one arm). I agree with the high-extreme diff only if Acno only has one arm, otherwise, he takes it high diff at most for me for many reasons.

Ignia can't hurt him magically
Acnologia could deal massive damage to Ignia and has the ability to create distance to avoid pure close quarter combat
Acno could just keep amping himself up by eating Ignia's attacks
Acnologia (in my opinion) is superior in most stats, even if not by an obscene amount

No matter what, Ignia gives Acnologia one helluva fight, though, I just don't think he'd do as good as Igneel.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2022 ---

Especially when there's another timeline where either Acno killed Ignia or Ignia never came after Acno.

 

[Kiki]

Does Acno have both hands, or just one hand?

just one hand

 

[LadyVados]

This fight happened in canon and it was a stomp in the weakest version of Acno’s favour.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2022 ---

Why even have this tournament ? Acno is clearly the strongest character in the verse.

Lol I thought it was Igneel for a second but my second point still stands.

 

[Anime VORTEX]

Acnologia win this match high diff

 

[Dimitri1220]

Acnologia is still the strongest character in the series. Even if you say Ignia has the same stats as him, Acnologia's magic element will give him a massive advantage.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Acnologia and Ignia are both brute fighters, so I expect them to be relative in physical stats.

Acno is immune to Ignia's magic attacks, but Ignia can still use his magic to defend himself from Acnologia's spells.

Ultimately, being immune to magic is better than not having it. He is also able to regain stamina from environment itself, as well as any residual flames from Ignia's attacks.

Acnologia wins with high-extreme diff. Will be a repeat of Acnologia vs Igneel, except both are in human forms

I love this argument. Totally agree with you.

 

[grey matter]

kindly disagree, I don't think Ignia is equal to Igneel or Acnologia as we have no real proof of this, just statements from people who would have zero information on how strong Acnologia actually was at the time of his death, we have statements from Elfseria who logically shouldn't know how strong Acno was pre RoT and Ignia who is so arrogant that his opinion should be taken with a grain of salt (especially considering he didn't actively seek Acno out, implying that he was hesitant to.)

I'm not taking Ignia's statement of him > Acno at face value either, for the same reason you mentioned. It would be in character for Ignia to overestimate himself.
As for Elefseria's statement, yes logically it doesn't make much sense for Elefseria know Acno's full power, but I consider Elefseria's statement as basically the author intent, i.e. that is basically Mashima speaking to us saying that DGs are relative to Acno.


Anyway. We have to start somewhere right?
I think the safest bet is that Ignia is basically Igneel, with some attitude issues. Narratively, seems like Ignia is Mashima's way for showing how Igneel would fare in a series where Acnologia didn't exist and destroy him. There is also no issue with this, since Ignia is Igneel's biological son.

I mean, if you don't think Ignia is as strong as Igneel, then we can't discuss anything lol, because there is no reference.


Let me ask you this:
Igneel vs one handed Acnologia. Who wins?

I think there is a reasonable chance that Igneel might pull it off.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2022 ---

Lol I thought it was Igneel for a second but my second point still stands.

Does it though?
Igneel fought Acno with both hands.

What if the fight started with Acno missing a hand?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2022 ---

Especially when there's another timeline where either Acno killed Ignia or Ignia never came after Acno.

Ehh, pretty sure Mashima didn't pull the DGs outta his ass back them lmao

 

[Orphan Prince]

Let me ask you this:
Igneel vs one handed Acnologia. Who wins?

I think there is a reasonable chance that Igneel might pull it off.

Full powered Igneel likely takes it high-extreme diff, only having one arm heavily restricts Acnologia in physical confrontations with his peers, but his magical immunity/resistance is a heavy advantage no matter who he fights making it more difficult to actually beat him (as long as they're not significantly stronger than him, which, in the verse no one is stronger than him, let alone significantly).

Ignia scales to the two but I'm doubtful he's on the same level, hence, why I said one-handed Acno beats Ignia high-extreme diff while two handed Acno beats him mid-high diff, maybe even mid diff.

Ehh, pretty sure Mashima didn't pull the DGs outta his ass back them lmao

Irregardless of whether Mashima thought of them at that point in time or not, they still exist in the verse, therefore we must assume that in-universe, the DG's were either slain by Acnologia or are still hiding from him.

 

[grey matter]

Full powered Igneel likely takes it high-extreme diff, only having one arm heavily restricts Acnologia in physical confrontations with his peers, but his magical immunity/resistance is a heavy advantage no matter who he fights making it more difficult to actually beat him (as long as they're not significantly stronger than him, which, in the verse no one is stronger than him, let alone significantly).

But Igneel already gave Acno a high-extreme diff with both arms

You don't think this changes for Acno when he misses an arm?

Ignia scales to the two but I'm doubtful he's on the same level, hence, why I said one-handed Acno beats Ignia high-extreme diff while two handed Acno beats him mid-high diff, maybe even mid diff.

What makes you think Ignia is weaker than Igneel?

Irregardless of whether Mashima thought of them at that point in time or not, they still exist in the verse, therefore we must assume that in-universe, the DG's were either slain by Acnologia or are still hiding from him.

I disagree, because author intent also matters.

But fair enough, there isn't a clear cut right answer for this.
We can always just justify it by arguing that Acno could use soul steal hax to no diff them. Igneel was immune in R2 only because he was already affected by that hax to begin with.

 

[Orphan Prince]

You don't think this changes for Acno when he misses an arm?

Honestly, the drastic change in the fight (when Acnologia was knocked out of the sky), Face was activated, I don't find it a coincidence that the moment Acnologia gets knocked out of the sky was the moment Face was activated, it definitely affected him, plus, the moment Face was destroyed by the Parent Dragons Acno got right back up and immediately overpowered Igneel. I think Face fucked with Acno and helped out Igneel. That was the most damage we've seen Igneel give him before taking his arm. I'm doubtful Acno would have been knocked out without Face. Most of the fight was also off panel, the parts we see is Acno no-selling Igneel's initial roar (when Igneel grabbed Natsu and said that his roar didn't do anything to Acno) and Acno getting his arm bitten off along with him being knocked out of the air. Him getting his arm bitten off can be pointed to him being reckless.

But, I think it would be the same diff (in Igneel's favor this time) due to Acnologia being more cautious and careful. Igneel seems to be on his level, but Acnologia had no problem physically engaging. I think a one-armed Acnologia would be more careful and keep his distance which would give Igneel more trouble as Acno is completely immune to his flames and WILL eat them this time around to amp himself up and replenish himself meanwhile, Igneel can get extremely hurt if hit with full powered magical attacks from Acno.

However, if we take Zeref's statement of Acno never being challenged (despite it being after his fight with Igneel), it could be assumed Acno was fucking around with Igneel. I'm not saying he was, I'm saying it could be argued as Zeref himself watched the fight and still mentioned that he wasn't ever challenged (also implying that Igneel didn't challenge him 400+ years ago either), but, by shown feats, Acno>=Igneel, by reliable statements in Zeref (who was watching) Acnologia>Igneel.

What makes you think Ignia is weaker than Igneel?

Simple, Ignia doesn't have any feats backing up his hype and statements. He had a chance to go after Acno, but didn't take it, instead he waited until he was dead before talking shit about being able to kill him, Ignia strikes me as someone who is very arrogant but is all bark when it comes to people tougher than him. even with Selene he needed a cheap shot to beat her rather than defeating her in fair combat. I just don't think he's on the same level as Acnologia and his dad.

I disagree, because author intent also matters.

The author's intent does matter, but, we've only ever had statements saying this from characters who had no idea how powerful Acnologia was even during Tenrou as if any of them got near him, they would have been killed.

 

[Tirl]

the DG's were either slain by Acnologia or are still hiding from him.

Rogue thought that 7 shitty dragons were enough to beat Acno who conquered the world. Rogue was obviously stupid, but still funny

 

[Orphan Prince]

Rogue thought that 7 shitty dragons were enough to beat Acno who conquered the world. Rogue was obviously stupid, but still funny

Rogue, not a very smart guy.

 

[grey matter]

Honestly, the drastic change in the fight (when Acnologia was knocked out of the sky), Face was activated, I don't find it a coincidence that the moment Acnologia gets knocked out of the sky was the moment Face was activated, it definitely affected him, plus, the moment Face was destroyed by the Parent Dragons Acno got right back up and immediately overpowered Igneel. I think Face fucked with Acno and helped out Igneel. That was the most damage we've seen Igneel give him before taking his arm. I'm doubtful Acno would have been knocked out without Face. Most of the fight was also off panel, the parts we see is Acno no-selling Igneel's initial roar (when Igneel grabbed Natsu and said that his roar didn't do anything to Acno) and Acno getting his arm bitten off along with him being knocked out of the air. Him getting his arm bitten off can be pointed to him being reckless.

But, I think it would be the same diff (in Igneel's favor this time) due to Acnologia being more cautious and careful. Igneel seems to be on his level, but Acnologia had no problem physically engaging. I think a one-armed Acnologia would be more careful and keep his distance which would give Igneel more trouble as Acno is completely immune to his flames and WILL eat them this time around to amp himself up and replenish himself meanwhile, Igneel can get extremely hurt if hit with full powered magical attacks from Acno.

However, if we take Zeref's statement of Acno never being challenged (despite it being after his fight with Igneel), it could be assumed Acno was fucking around with Igneel. I'm not saying he was, I'm saying it could be argued as Zeref himself watched the fight and still mentioned that he wasn't ever challenged (also implying that Igneel didn't challenge him 400+ years ago either), but, by shown feats, Acno>=Igneel, by reliable statements in Zeref (who was watching) Acnologia>Igneel.

Yeah, I was wondering if Face did something there as well. It seemed like too much of a coincidence. In fact, that was my initial reaction, I was like yeah Face fucked Acno there.

But, shouldn't Face also technically nerf Igneel the same way as well? I'm not sure if Face can be attributed to what Igneel did.

Fair point about Acno maintaining his distance if a hypothetical one armed Acno fought Igneel.
Logically, yeah. In fact, without CIS, this should be Acno's best bet against a dragon who is relative to him in physical stats, to minimize damage. Just keep the distance, and spam spells. He can also eat earth, air etc, if it ever reaches a point where he is running out of gas.

I think Acno engaging more in physical combat is just his in character demeanor. It's because he wants to kill dragons with his own hand, rather than relying on spells. So, in character Acno probably won't rely on keeping distance in a hypothetical battle, even if he only has one arm, which might cost him the battle. But a no CIS Acno definitely will.

Basically. If there is no CIS: Acno should take it high-extreme diff against Igneel, Ignia etc, even if he only has one arm. Would be mid-high diff if he has both arms.
But in character Acno: wins high-extreme diff against Igneel/Ignia with both arms. Probably loses extreme diff with one arm

I honestly wouldn't consider Zeref's statement at face value.
I don't think Acno or anyone can claim with a straight face that he didn't take a fight seriously, where he got knocked on his ass and lost his arm.

Simple, Ignia doesn't have any feats backing up his hype and statements. He had a chance to go after Acno, but didn't take it, instead he waited until he was dead before talking shit about being able to kill him, Ignia strikes me as someone who is very arrogant but is all bark when it comes to people tougher than him. even with Selene he needed a cheap shot to beat her rather than defeating her in fair combat. I just don't think he's on the same level as Acnologia and his dad.

Didn't Ignia also say that he was gonna fight Acno, but then he "died" in Alverass arc?

Ignia = Igneel is what makes narratively most sense to me. I think this is Mashima's intent with Ignia.

 

[Orphan Prince]

But, shouldn't Face also technically nerf Igneel the same way as well? I'm not sure if Face can be attributed to what Igneel did.

Maybe it didn't nerf Igneel because Igneel was actually a Dragon whilst Acno was a Human turned Dragon.

Basically. If there is no CIS: Acno should take it high-extreme diff against Igneel, Ignia etc, even if he only has one arm. Would be mid-high diff if he has both arms.

Agree here, without CIS, a one-handed Acno takes this with high-extreme diff against Ignia, likely extreme diffs Igneel. Acnologia certainly had the ability to take on Igneel in a mid-high diff if he kept his distance and relied more on spells than focusing more on physical combat.

I don't think Acno or anyone can claim with a straight face that he didn't take a fight seriously, where he got knocked on his ass and lost his arm.

I more think he got knocked on his ass because of Face and lost an arm because of his foolhardiness, with real tactics and using his abilities to his advantage he could likely win around mid diff against DG's & Igneel with both arms.

Didn't Ignia also say that he was gonna fight Acno, but then he "died" in Alverass arc?

He did say that he was going to, but how sure are we that he would have actually seeked out and confronted Acnologia when he already had ample chances to do so? I don't think Ignia had any plans on actually going after Acnologia or he would have done so already. It's easy to say that you'd confront someone and kill them when said person isn't alive for you to be forced to back it up. Plus, as we've seen with Selene, he needs to rely on cheap tactics to get an even fight to go in his favor, that trick wouldn't work on Acno even if he did get distracted.