Shounen Air Gear by Oh! Great

suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

she's not shredding the wall every time she visits. she's training/practicing. just like kiric is doing pressure training. heck, everyone in the a-t world is getting ready for the gst, so practicing or creating tricks would be expected, moreso as it draws closer to the tournament. if you read into the next chapter, you'll see that after talking with kiric she goes up/down the tower again.

she is the one who destroyed the wall... but she is only doing it right now for practice. she wouldn't wreck a wall just for stopping by obviously.
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

so your saying that for practice, she is making gapping holes (that i dont even belive she is capable of making) in the sides of the sleeping forest elevator shaft, the base of operations for sleeping forest. and you think kilik is ok with that?

my point is that judging from the picture the size of the damage is immense. much bigger than the slide we see her do on the next page so im pretty sure thats not the cause. also if you look at her reaction when she passes it up in mid fall she gives it a very ominous glance as it there is some important story behind it.

so thank you suarhnir for your opinion but i dont think its the right answer.
 

suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

for the life of me, this is a shounen manga. things are usually over the top, and physics are exaggerated if there is any mention of real world physics in play. ringo is a king level rider and a grav kid (who has trained for a long time), so why is she suddenly unable to perform such a feat?

kiric came out of his training room and greeted ringo right in front of her 'work'. if he had a problem, he would have addressed it at least in passing. also, much of the tower is useless in terms of what sf uses for the gst (which is only the elevator itself and anything else connected to it to make it run). koga does a good number on their base (not to the degree that ringo was in the tower) but they also hold back a bit cause it is their school (which is used by other people too). the point of having a base (as stated in the early chapters of ag) is a place to practice that won't be used by outsiders.

and how often do we ever see the picture of some action from a distant standpoint... its more visually dramatic in showing something close up but it ends up cutting some of the action/effects out. and ringo's 'reaction' to the earlier destruction is a telltale sign of 'this is the bar i must surpass/reach'.

current sf has been guarding the tower for the past 6 years. it only opens up its doors during the gst and even sora was smart enough to leave the tower alone for the last 6 years until his side was ready. the gst battle takes place in the elevator/'forest' not the tower leading up to it. kiric's rebellion to old sf had their battle take place up top, not even inside the tower and even extended into the clock tower area (the factory; ttt's base).

aside from those few scenes of seeing the destroyed wall, can you find any mention or showing of a battle that wasn't kiric's rebellion to old sf, or official gst match anywhere in the story that i have missed. because i've looked/read through my set of japanese tankoubans for ag a few times, and i have not come across anything of any battle outside of the ones i've mentioned (which none of them didn't even go near to the part of the tower that ringo is practicing on).

ps- which reminds me, i need to get back on finishing those tankouban summaries.
 

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suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

wow, i love mythbusters but i don't have cable and didn't think to look online (like youtube). okies, so pennies can't kill you, but it can sting you. while it doesn't do much more than leaving a small nick/sting, it does leave something (it slightly chipped the concrete and asphalt).
 

conn-man

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

current sf has been guarding the tower for the past 6 years. it only opens up its doors during the gst and even sora was smart enough to leave the tower alone for the last 6 years until his side was ready. the gst battle takes place in the elevator/'forest' not the tower leading up to it. kiric's rebellion to old sf had their battle take place up top, not even inside the tower and even extended into the clock tower area (the factory; ttt's base).

aside from those few scenes of seeing the destroyed wall, can you find any mention or showing of a battle that wasn't kiric's rebellion to old sf, or official gst match anywhere in the story that i have missed. because i've looked/read through my set of japanese tankoubans for ag a few times, and i have not come across anything of any battle outside of the ones i've mentioned (which none of them didn't even go near to the part of the tower that ringo is practicing on).
that was basically why i was asking in the first post about the wall, i hadnt seen it metioned anywhere else either, so it must be something that we dont know about so my main intention was to get people talking about it because it was mysterious to me.

about when kilik took on everyone else in sleeping forest, now thats somehting to consider. you cant say that we really know any details from that day, how do you know the fight didnt take place in the elevator shaft? now i have my primary theory for this, its an old scar from the days of when the former sleeping forest kings turned on each other. so yes, i still think your wrong.
 

suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

that was basically why i was asking in the first post about the wall, i hadnt seen it metioned anywhere else either, so it must be something that we dont know about so my main intention was to get people talking about it because it was mysterious to me.

about when kilik took on everyone else in sleeping forest, now thats somehting to consider. you cant say that we really know any details from that day, how do you know the fight didnt take place in the elevator shaft? now i have my primary theory for this, its an old scar from the days of when the former sleeping forest kings turned on each other. so yes, i still think your wrong.
oyos

kiric didn't take on old sf by himself. the battle is shown in the grav kids flashback arc. kiric was aided by om, gabi, the head-wrapped guy, and the chick in the bulky suit. rika and ine didn't partake in that battle. the battle is shown to take place at the entrance/surface of the tower and inside the factory. its aftermath is witnessed earlier in the series in rika's flashback in which she finds everyone on the surface. simca finds sora in the factory, and nike jumps in to attack kiric right after that. it never got into the tower.

and i was answering your earlier question about what caused the damage on the wall. from my knowledge and references on air gear, there is no battle of which you are hoping to find that had caused those rips in the tower walls. it was simply ringo practicing her trick, because she knows how dangerous sora and genesis is and needs to up her game by pulling off something of that magnitude.

and once again, this is a shounen manga. a sports/fighting shounen manga. i will start referencing random series just to prove how over the top and exaggerated things can get, even if its already acceptable in the series' established rules/physics. that you won't at least consider that ringo is capable of such a feat makes it sound like you're either sexist or fanboy/girling a different character in ag and downplaying anyone else in defense of your favoritism.

you are the one who asked, i gave an answer with examples and references. you won't accept it, so why don't you go look for the evidence you are searching for to explain the destroyed wall. i may have missed/overlooked something, but you need to find it and show it to me before i think otherwise. and keep in mind, i often go back to reread random chapters, and as far as reading the whole series up to date in order, i've done that 4 times already, and working on a 5th.

ps- if you would like to continue debating this, let's take it to pms since i think we've annoyed/scared enough people with this banter.
 

conn-man

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

and keep in mind, i often go back to reread random chapters, and as far as reading the whole series up to date in order, i've done that 4 times already, and working on a 5th.

ps- if you would like to continue debating this, let's take it to pms since i think we've annoyed/scared enough people with this banter.
yes you make a good point that there isnt anything else right now to tell us what it could be, but for now i have to guess that its something we dont know about.

im sorry i dont think your answer is right and im sorry you dont think im right either, but hey, people disagree a lot. i myself have only read though about 2 1/2 times.
 

suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

i usually stick with established facts as presented in the story. my ability to speculate into all of the what ifs/else is so pathetic i really just let other people do the real theorizing. though theories are are more plausible when they have examples or some evidence.

anyways, i was wondering of the chances for koga to 'awaken the wind in their hearts' on some of the members of genesis? i think almost every team (or at least a key member) they've fought against has been inspired/reinspired by koga/ikki.
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

i usually stick with established facts as presented in the story. my ability to speculate into all of the what ifs/else is so pathetic i really just let other people do the real theorizing. though theories are are more plausible when they have examples or some evidence.

anyways, i was wondering of the chances for koga to 'awaken the wind in their hearts' on some of the members of genesis? i think almost every team (or at least a key member) they've fought against has been inspired/reinspired by koga/ikki.
Well the only powerhouses we know about that would be on the Carrier in Genesis are Nike, Orca and Nue.

Im thinking maybe Orca or more probably Nue will change sides. Nike is still such a beast. I think hes the rider to show the most defense/hitpoints to date. He pretty much just tanked the whole Apollon Road and then laughed it off with no seeming injuries whatsoever.

Forgetting all other factors Agito with Fang Regalia and Aeon with Flame Regalia matched up against Nike you would still get the impression he is stronger...:o
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

Well the only powerhouses we know about that would be on the Carrier in Genesis are Nike, Orca and Nue.

Im thinking maybe Orca or more probably Nue will change sides. Nike is still such a beast. I think hes the rider to show the most defense/hitpoints to date. He pretty much just tanked the whole Apollon Road and then laughed it off with no seeming injuries whatsoever.

Forgetting all other factors Agito with Fang Regalia and Aeon with Flame Regalia matched up against Nike you would still get the impression he is stronger...:o
actually this is like a 2nd to my theory in the battle pair http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55845&page=2 well ikki is gonna do the face to face vs nue (remember since the begining nue want to cross ATs with Ikki) :D
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

^ Im not really sure how O!G is going to handle the battle on the carrier.

If Om and Mikan were to somehow join Koga in the battle on the Carrier I can maybe see them power through the GC/military/navy personnel and then do some gangin up on Nike. I always wanted to see an Orca vs Om battle too. Killer Bubbles galore!!!

Otherwise there will have to be a lot of unconventional tactics/events once again by Koga to somehow get Rika and Gorgon Shell back safely. Nike is like the one Oustanding obstacle on that carrier, looking at his past battles, hes versed Kiric, Spitfire, Aeon, Yoshi and come out on top.

I dont see O!G making him a pushover for Koga and thus not sure how they can take him down while still justifying his Beastly status/rep he has among the fans, thus my suggestion that Nue might team up with Koga to try and balance it out, though it would be interesting to see Ikki verse Nue. However a regalia-less Ikki 1vs1 with Regalia wearing King kind of seems mismatched.
 
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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

You can't really give Nike Kiric or Yoshitune. In Kiric's case he was exhausted from his battle with Sora and was on the defensive the entire time. In Yoshi's case well we know what happened there. I'm not saying Nike is a punk or anything he was not considered the strongest King in Genesis for no reason. But if you look at his record two of his opponents were already on the ropes when he attacked them.
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

You can't really give Nike Kiric or Yoshitune. In Kiric's case he was exhausted from his battle with Sora and was on the defensive the entire time. In Yoshi's case well we know what happened there. I'm not saying Nike is a punk or anything he was not considered the strongest King in Genesis for no reason. But if you look at his record two of his opponents were already on the ropes when he attacked them.
oyos

i second this. kiric and yoshi were attacked by nike only after they've been in some intense fighting with someone else, when nike was at full strength. i would actually give kiric or yoshi the upper hand if they were fighting against nike at full strength. nike is considered the strongest king in genesis (before sora's return) but yoshi is hell of a lot smarter than nike and probably would have won through strategy even though he can't overpower nike. it was also mentioned that nike was not up to the level that old sf was (nike wasn't considered a king level rider before he claimed the gem regalia), so kiric could have very easily won against nike if it was an even fight.
 
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Kazu-Sama

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

I agree. Nike, good as he may be, can't take the original SF or Yoshi.

Nue will turn, the only reason he's still fighting for Sora is an empty promise.

:O Aeon/Kazu vs Nike?!?

To see who's the better flame King, Kazu or Spitfire???
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

nike is considered the strongest king in genesis (before sora's return) but yoshi is hell of a lot smarter than nike and probably would have won through strategy even though he can't overpower nike. it was also mentioned that nike was not up to the level that old sf was (nike wasn't considered a king level rider before he claimed the gem regalia), so kiric could have very easily won against nike if it was an even fight.
uhm, Nike is recognized as the strongest in genesis...i doubt he would be recognized as such even by the other kings if yoshi could beat him...

i mean, he was literally toying with spitfire and aeon...

as for him not being recognized as a king back then, i always though it was more of a matter of him not even being in japan, and thus everyone forgot about his existence, rather than him not having the skills...
 

suarhnir

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

oyos

being called the strongest, doesnt necessarily mean the best. yoshi is hardly the 'strongest' of genesis' kings, but that doesn't mean he can't think of a way to beat nike.

the old sf forgetting about him because he was in america and him not being a 'king' level back then are not related like that. he was in america and so old sf forgot about him and didn't expect him to show up so suddenly. then his level was regarded as someone who wasn't up to king level as a rider. nike likely didn't partake in a-t as much as old sf (just doing the military stuff, and did a-t only moderately), and only after beating kiric in revenge did nike start working on getting up to level.
 

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

^ Well Nike and Sora are both Kings of Deception...

Since it was Soras idea to form Sleeping Forest I find it highly likely that he sent Nike to America so that the others would forget about him, while Nike built up connections in America and trained his AT skills higher.

From the get go Sora built SF to eventually challenge Kiric so his right-hand man - Nike, would have known that Sora was going to fight Kiric and would be training to be around the level of SF members just without a regalia.

If you look at the flashbacks to Sora vs Kiric you can see that while Sora was lying in a pool of his own blood, Kiric didnt have so much as a scratch on himself. Id say even bloodlusted, Nike would at least have to be low-tier SF level to literally rip Kiric's wheels from under his feet! lol
 
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Kazu-Sama

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Re: Air Gear: Hangout

I think, as good as Kilic is, you're over-estimating his ability by saying he can beat Sora without getting so much as a hit on him in return...

I'm not saying Nike is weak, quite the opposite, but he wasn't up to Kilic/Sora level back then... Yoshi was completely out, he wasn't even wearing regalia, so that win doesn't count...
 

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