Spoiler Akatsuki no Yona Spoiler & Chapter Discussion

[eni]

Hi! I'm a bit late to the fun, because I took a small break from MH

@Trjpyo Plus, there's a difference of putting in gore because the story needs it (and Zeno's story does need it) versus putting gore in because you think it's edgy or cool.

I agree so much with you. Gore in horror or mature stories can be cool just visually, but it is rare when it manages to actually contribute to the plot beyond being an artistic choice. AnY isn't that graphic to me, but that's because I'm reading horror josei/seinen too. In Zeno's case, it really adds emotionally to the character development throughout the story, not just "well that's his power, let's slice him up a little" or "shoujo boy looks cool when he's suffering".
It feels needed and also justified to show it. I also like that it's over the edge for "typical" shoujo, yet not too much. The overall feeling is still shoujo. Although, in the best tradition of early Kaori Yuki or Clamp styled hybrid/mature shoujo with proper action (shounen) elements and no fear of bloody scenes.

 

[Trjpyo]

I want people to read my stories for the plot and/or characters, not because they think that lots of blood is fun.

I’ll try it from your perspective... would i read AnY for the plot/characters? — NO.
The main chara doesnt even have a goal(even when we’re concluding) and that adds to the weakness of the plot. Even the probable conflict of the subplot(the kai arc) has become weak.
When the author declared in the first few arcs that the main chara doesnt have a goal yet(even now), she’s sending the message to the readers that they just sit back, relax and entertain themselves with the fast paced action of the subplots or enjoy the slow burn romance. It certainly was entertaining but the main plot is still up in the air.
Lets talk conflict. I dont know about you, but i see the kai arc conflict and the xing arc conlict similar in terms of kouka just resorting to war instead of a diplomatic solution first. Can u call it strong conflict when the problem is just to get the gray character to considering talking first to which he agrees on the spot? That is weak.

If i were AnY’s author, i’d let my readers focus on other entertaining aspects to distract them from the weak plot/chara and pray they dont notice it.

Gosh, I feel like i’m in high school doing book report. This is why i prefer to just immerse myself in the story and let it do its job of entertaining me.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

The main chara doesnt even have a goal(even when we’re concluding) and that adds to the weakness of the plot. Even the probable conflict of the subplot(the kai arc) has become weak.

I actually think Yona not having a main goal makes the manga more charming. It's not your typical revenge story where she wants to kill her dad's murderer.

Because she wanders around, we find out more about Kouka. If this was a revenge story, it would just be her being obsessed about Soo-Won and taking him down, which would be boring.

Plus Yona has side goals, to help wherever she goes.

This sort of atypical manga might not be everyone's cup of tea though, so I don't blame you. Maybe you would have preferred more direction and action from the start but I rather like this open world style, with the main plot being driven forward every now and then.

 

[Aniela]

Gosh, I feel like i’m in high school doing book report. This is why i prefer to just immerse myself in the story and let it do its job of entertaining me.

Well, I'm sorry that considering characters and plot is so hard for you. I'll again note that if you don't care for them, there're plenty other stuff you can read/watch. "Castlevania", for instance, was received pretty well lately, even though there's nothing but gore in that series.

And I'm not saying that AnY plot is perfect. But it's decent, especially if we forget about the Xing Arc. But adding in gore for the sake of adding gore wouldn't make it better, and I dare say, it would make it worse.

 

[Trjpyo]

Well, I'm sorry that considering characters and plot is so hard for you.

‘Course its hard. Every reader wants to stick around and not immediately resort to the trashbin. Thank god AnY’s author has other means of entertainment(funny antics, gore in shoujo etc.) coz nobody wants to waste their time on poor plot and aimless characters.

 

[Aniela]

‘Course its hard. Every reader wants to stick around and not immediately resort to the trashbin. Thank god AnY’s author has other means of entertainment(funny antics, gore in shoujo etc.) coz nobody wants to waste their time on poor plot and aimless characters.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem that it's "every reader", seeing how many people even just on this forum are interested in discussing AnY's characters and plot. Nobody else also complained there wasn't enough blood, guts, and gore. So it'd seem you're in the minority here, not the other way round.

 

[Trjpyo]

I actually think Yona not having a main goal makes the manga more charming. It's not your typical revenge story where she wants to kill her dad's murderer.

Because she wanders around, we find out more about Kouka. If this was a revenge story, it would just be her being obsessed about Soo-Won and taking him down, which would be boring.

Plus Yona has side goals, to help wherever she goes.

This sort of atypical manga might not be everyone's cup of tea though, so I don't blame you. Maybe you would have preferred more direction and action from the start but I rather like this open world style, with the main plot being driven forward every now and then.

Being open-ended is entertaining which is why its a good distraction to use when the main plot is still ??? in the authors head. I’m not complaining bec i was very entertained by it.
But i tell you this, the moment yona finally realizes her goal( if she ever will), thats the time when you can judge that some subplots or character developments are unnecessary and overall best left out or some missing.
Which is why in picking up a new manga i dont go birds eye view first bec it takes the fun out of it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---

I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem that it's "every reader", seeing how many people even just on this forum are interested in discussing AnY's characters and plot. Nobody else also complained there wasn't enough blood, guts, and gore. So it'd seem you're in the minority here, not the other way round.

In this forums alone, there’s only about less than 10 of us who discuss plot and characters who make recurring visits. Maybe the rest of the fans just enjoy it purely for entertainment without having to critique every now and then. No one wants to feel like they’re back in high school doing book reports and explaining themselves. This is a work of fiction whose purpose is to entertain after all.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

‘Course its hard. Every reader wants to stick around and not immediately resort to the trashbin. Thank god AnY’s author has other means of entertainment(funny antics, gore in shoujo etc.) coz nobody wants to waste their time on poor plot and aimless characters.

Being open-ended is entertaining which is why its a good distraction to use when the main plot is still ??? in the authors head. I’m not complaining bec i was very entertained by it.

It actually depends on what you see as "plot". If plot for you is Yona's end goal, then that becomes the plot. Plot for me is how she grows as a person and finds a family in the dragons, Yoon and Hak. Plus the characters in this manga are very well etched compared to other shoujos. I wouldn't mind a whole shoujo of her just wandering about honestly.

This is a work of fiction whose purpose is to entertain after all.

Well analysing is entertaining too and stimulating to an extent.

 

[Aniela]

In this forums alone, there’s only about less than 10 of us who discuss plot and characters who make recurring visits. Maybe the rest of the fans just enjoy it purely for entertainment without having to critique every now and then. No one wants to feel like they’re back in high school doing book reports and explaining themselves. This is a work of fiction whose purpose is to entertain after all.

I guess you've never been to tumblr. But it's totally beside the point. Gore =/= entertainment. To many people, it's the opposite. What's entertaining for you, wouldn't work for everybody. Demanding it on the basis you deem it entertaining when it doesn't fit the story's aesthetic is just a notion I cannot comprehend. You being disappointed with the lack of blood and guts doesn't change that the brief confrontation between Keishuk and Shin-ah was one of the best panels in the manga for many chapters.

 

[@Aylinn]

The main chara doesnt even have a goal(even when we’re concluding) and that adds to the weakness of the plot. Even the probable conflict of the subplot(the kai arc) has become weak.

Well, I think that Yona’s only goal for now is to help the country\people with her dragons. Obviously it is not something she can keep doing endlessly, especially if the dragons are not supposed to live long, but there is some goal for the time being. Admittedly, she is rather passive about it and more likes bumps into problems than anything, so I cannot say your criticism is completely unjustified.

Anyway, I hope that Keishuk will have a good chat with Yona, just like he had with Tea-jun, which will make her think.

 

[Trjpyo]

I guess you've never been to tumblr. .

You mean that cesspool of spoilers where they just like and reblog what they like? Are u sure it isnt just us who have tumblrs who are doing that?

Anyway, I hope that Keishuk will have a good chat with Yona, just like he had with Tea-jun, which will make her think.

I wonder when’ll that be. They ran away again and with the 2nd wave of invasion will probably distract keishuk.

Gore =/= entertainment. To many people, it's the opposite. What's entertaining for you, wouldn't work for everybody. Demanding it on the basis you deem it entertaining when it doesn't fit the story's aesthetic is just a notion I cannot comprehend. You being disappointed with the lack of blood and guts doesn't change that the brief confrontation between Keishuk and Shin-ah was one of the best panels in the manga for many chapters.

Yeah... and dont just jump the gun and assert poor plot and aimless characters bec that also isnt for everybody. Its bringing up the very reasons i would consider dropping it instead.

 

[@Aylinn]

I wonder when’ll that be. They ran away again and with the 2nd wave of invasion will probably distract keishuk.

I wonder too. At least Keishuk right now is in a great position to bring huge problems for Tea-jun. Keishuk was told by the servant that the people in the room are Tea-jun’s guests and then he saw the dragons with which Yona is told to be travelling. Why not interrogate people and look for evidence of treason right on the spot?

At least I hope that once in a while our protagonist will fall into a trap, from which obviously they will have to get out one way or another, or that they fail in achieving something at least once in a while and have to deal with consequences.

Making a narrow escape from the antagonist is an ok device, but overusing it not a good idea. It will get boring quickly.

 

[Trjpyo]

At least I hope that once in a while our protagonist will fall into a trap, from which obviously they will have to get out one way or another, or that they fail in achieving something at least once in a while and have to deal with consequences.

Making a narrow escape from the antagonist is an ok device, but overusing it not a good idea. It will get boring quickly.

Trap sounds good but it has to be done outside kouka that way the dragons will be vulnerable. Staging it anywhere within fire, water, wind tribes or hiryuu castle is a bad idea. With that i wonder if keishuk or that kuervo guy is gonna get to them first.

 

[Aniela]

Yeah... and dont just jump the gun and assert poor plot and aimless characters bec that also isnt for everybody. Its bringing up the very reasons i would consider dropping it instead.

And again you write like you're the only person reading this manga that counts. The reason I bring up tumblr is because there are plenty of fans out there, discussing the plot and the characters in many ways and at many angles. And I've yet to see someone demand gore, beside you. I suppose that if they're some fans who like gore and read AnY, they simply leave it to stories that support this kind of edgy aesthetics. So again, seems you're in the minority.

And honestly, if gore is why you're reading this manga, I'm surprised you haven't dropped it already. There wasn't much gore to begin with. Even with Zeno's Arc, the author went for obscure black stains of blood to cover up Zeno's wounds so no flesh or bones were seen. The one exception was the moment he got his teeth exposed, and it was so shocking precisely because it was the only shot that was so gore-y. In the end, the author went for minimum of gore that was needed for that story line and that allowed her to bring out the most emotion from her readers.

I wonder too. At least Keishuk right now is in a great position to bring huge problems for Tea-jun. Keishuk was told by the servant that the people in the room are Tea-jun’s guests and then he saw the dragons with which Yona is told to be travelling. Why not interrogate people and look for evidence of treason right on the spot?

At least I hope that once in a while our protagonist will fall into a trap, from which obviously they will have to get out one way or another, or that they fail in achieving something at least once in a while and have to deal with consequences.

Making a narrow escape from the antagonist is an ok device, but overusing it not a good idea. It will get boring quickly.

I suppose a part of why I like this chapter is also that I'm not sure which way the author will decide to have the plot go. She has a few ways now. She might show Keishuk's further actions - of which I'm curious myself - but she might also let him brew for a while and skip to Yona and co. instead. Or to Kai empire. And many more. So, I guess we'll live, we'll see.

 

[Trjpyo]

And again you write like you're the only person reading this manga that counts. The reason I bring up tumblr is because there are plenty of fans out there, discussing the plot and the characters in many ways and at many angles. And I've yet to see someone demand gore, beside you. I suppose that if they're some fans who like gore and read AnY, they simply leave it to stories that support this kind of edgy aesthetics. So again, seems you're in the minority.

In tumblr i can only see 15 people who seriously discuss plot/characters, and a number of those are from this forum. The rest just like and reblog content (memes, pics or whatever). 15 is a far cry from a majority.

And honestly, if gore is why you're reading this manga, I'm surprised you haven't dropped it already. There wasn't much gore to begin with. Even with Zeno's Arc, the author went for obscure black stains of blood to cover up Zeno's wounds so no flesh or bones were seen. The one exception was the moment he got his teeth exposed, and it was so shocking precisely because it was the only shot that was so gore-y. In the end, the author went for minimum of gore that was needed for that story line and that allowed her to bring out the most emotion from her readers..

Take a look at the previous page, i’ve enumerated the top 3 things why i keep going back to this manga despite your overestimation of its plot and characters.

 

[Aniela]

In tumblr i can only see 15 people who seriously discuss plot/characters, and a number of those are from this forum. The rest just like and reblog content (memes, pics or whatever). 15 is a far cry from a majority.

Even if (and you'd seriously have to prove it, there's way more than 15 people out there), it doesn't change the fact that you're the only one demanding gore. There's no reason to claim that this statistic sample is bad. Regardless of how many silent fans are out there, you can't prove that they would want more gore. So even if it's 1 vs 15, you're still the minority. But I guess statistic's hard too, eh?

It also doesn't change the fact that gore wouldn't make this story any better.

But well. Keep waiting for that which you won't get.

 

[Trjpyo]

Even if (and you'd seriously have to prove it, there's way more than 15 people out there), it doesn't change the fact that you're the only one demanding gore. There's no reason to claim that this statistic sample is bad. Regardless of how many silent fans are out there, you can't prove that they would want more gore. So even if it's 1 vs 15, you're still the minority. But I guess statistic's hard too, eh?

You’re the one who brought up the tumblr thing so its on you to prove it. Let me assure you my skill set is wide coupled with a number of creative pursuits that im not so engrossed with book reports and statistics. There’s more to look forward to after school i assure you.

It also doesn't change the fact that gore wouldn't make this story any better.
.

Still holding on to ‘advancing the plot’ eh? Give me a heads up when the plot/chara finally has direction/goal and i can tell you which subplots, chara dev, elements, etc. are unnecessary, best left out or missing.

 

[Aniela]

You’re the one who brought up the tumblr thing so its on you to prove it. Let me assure you my skill set is wide coupled with a number of creative pursuits that im not so engrossed with book reports and statistics. There’s more to look forward to after school i assure you.

Still holding on to ‘advancing the plot’ eh? Give me a heads up when the plot/chara finally has direction/goal and i can tell you which subplots, chara dev, elements, etc. are unnecessary, best left out or missing.

Nope, sorry, you're the one who brought the stupid-ass "gore makes everything better" thing up. I'm simply claiming that you're in the minority. And believe me, I know there's plenty of fun stuff to do after school. You'll have time to experience them when you grow up, I'm sure.

And "making story better" doesn't equal "advancing plot", so. But IMO, gore would make this story so much, much worse. Less entertaining, if you like this word more.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

Give me a heads up when the plot/chara finally has direction/goal and i can tell you which subplots, chara dev, elements, etc. are unnecessary, best left out or missing.

But I don't understand your point here. Yona didn't have a goal of revenge she had a goal of finding the dragons first to ensure Hak stays alive, once found she had a goal of helping out Kouka. Now obviously she will be pushed to make another goal - take the crown or not take it and help Soo-Won defeat Kai.

Isn't this much better than a linear revenge story? This manga was never a revenge story from the very start. That would have been totally boring and there are so many revenge stories out there. Because of this very point I find this manga superior to many others. Also let's not forget that the antagonist, Soo-Won, is a grey character. It's not all black and white and that's interesting for me.

Sub plots - which btw not sure what you are calling sub plots because everything here seems important to me (maybe because I love all the scenes with the Happy Hungry Bunch) - are also pivotal to a manga to give it a wholesome shape. All the plots and side stories so far just build up the intrigue to the grand reveal at the end. What's the point of a linear story where everything is revealed in 30 chapters? AnY would not have been this popular if that was the case. Like Imagine Yona becoming emo like Sasuke or something lol - and want to keep taking revenge. She would have been unbearable.

 

[SamuelDean]

Em..Maybe we should not forget that Yona is 16 years old? And everybody else besides Jae ha is still pretty young. So...I think it is more plausible that she has no aim, but I would prefer it.

And yes like @Mini_kinkin has said: The subplots have a purpose. Often they are used by the mangaka to clarify certain situations ( our imagination of the bond between Yona, Hak and Soo Won is nourished by the occuring flashbacks. There would be not such a great emotional turmoil ( even among the fans) without adding further flesh to the bond between them. I mean in the first chapter Soo Won cuts the bond...so the options are limited)

or introduce new elements into the story.
I mean it was good that Min Soo was reintroduced in the chapter before he appeared again, since many fans might have forgotten about him. He was a person that appeared only at the beginning for 2 chapters!
Also Ogi a person of one of the "subplots" played later an important role inside the main story...