Match Akutsu vs Shiraishi

[Philia]

Akutsu Vs Shiraishi
Who would win??????????????????

 

[floman]

Re: Random Singles Matches

I really like Shirasihi better as a character. If the stats that are shown in the surface area are Shiraishi without the gauntlet on, then it goes to Akutsu for sure. His natural flexibility and his ability to counter attack, I think, would be stronger than bible tennis. Akutsu's unpredictable play style was enough to confuse the Tanegamishima.

Shiraishi who formulates counter attacks against his opponents, would not be able to see through Akutsu's play style. He's just too random for Shiraishi to beat him, when their stats are so close to equal.

On the other hand, if the stats are Shiraishi's stats with the gauntlet on, Shiraishi would win after he takes it off. The change in the weight of the Gold that he was wearing for three years would provide enough power and enough arm speed to outclass Akutsu.

I made an argument before suggesting that the stats in the data book for Shiraishi's with his gauntlet on, however I don't think anyone commented on it so I cannot claim that it is valid.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: Random Singles Matches

Changed thread title and added a poll. It's fine to have multiple threads for multiple discussions.

I made an argument before suggesting that the stats in the data book for Shiraishi's with his gauntlet on, however I don't think anyone commented on it so I cannot claim that it is valid.

I believe they aren't, but I don't remember if Sai has actually ever confirmed it.

That said, removing the gauntlet doesn't increase Shiraishi's leg speed, so he'd still have as much trouble with Akutsu's shots as when he wears the gauntlet I think.

 

[redhairSH]

Akutsu is a lot better than he was in PoT, but Shiraishi's style is perfect tennis. Akutsu plays unpredictable and Shiraishi plays with perfect fundamentals. Even though Akutsu has better stats, that could be because the stats show Shiraishi with the gauntlet on.

Also, stats aren't everything in these matches, as the Revolutionary Brigade vs #12-19 showed

 

[Hardy]

Also, stats aren't everything in these matches, as the Revolutionary Brigade vs #12-19 showed

Well, the Mutsus raped Oishi/Niou (who won just because of a trick, lol), Date/Ban destroyed Kabaji/Kawamura, Mitsuya left Yanagi unconcious, IIRC Kintarou has better stats and he defeated Hakamada, Irie has better stats than Akiba,

In the #11-20 matches, There were only 2 exceptions, and BJK and the new Yips are strong techs.

So yeah, stats matter, unless you're hiding something really strong (and Shiraishi doesn't have it). In fact, as you said, Akutsu's playstyle should counter Shiraishi.

As much as I dislike him, Akutsu should win here.

 

[floman]

Well, the Mutsus raped Oishi/Niou (who won just because of a trick, lol), Date/Ban destroyed Kabaji/Kawamura, Mitsuya left Yanagi unconcious, IIRC Kintarou has better stats and he defeated Hakamada, Irie has better stats than Akiba,

In the #11-20 matches, There were only 2 exceptions, and BJK and the new Yips are strong techs.

So yeah, stats matter, unless you're hiding something really strong (and Shiraishi doesn't have it). In fact, as you said, Akutsu's playstyle should counter Shiraishi.

As much as I dislike him, Akutsu should win here.

I didn't mean that it would counter his playstyle, more that since their stats are so even the difference maker would be play style. Since Shiraishi takes off his gauntlet, his power would increase and his technique would most likely increase (and most likely stamina too).

The only things that wouldn't be effected would be mental and speed like Kaoz mentioned. I think judging based on the magnitude of the weights, it would be enough to beat Akutsu by a narrow margin.

 

[Kaoz]

^Actually, I believe the areas that are boosted when he's removing the gauntlet are Speed and Stamina.

Also @Hardy, Yukimura and Fuwa have the same stat total as well, so it's not necessarily an exception to stats mattering.

 

[Brandnewkid]

Akutsu wins. All Shiraishi has is his Bible (AKA basic tennis) and the Roundtable Shot, which Akutsu can react in time for due to his flexibility. Plus, Akutsu's basic tennis shouldn't be scoffed at either, as he can hit the 10-ball with no problem. We dunno if Shiraishi can do that.

 

[redhairSH]

Well, the Mutsus raped Oishi/Niou (who won just because of a trick, lol), Date/Ban destroyed Kabaji/Kawamura, Mitsuya left Yanagi unconcious, IIRC Kintarou has better stats and he defeated Hakamada, Irie has better stats than Akiba,

In the #11-20 matches, There were only 2 exceptions, and BJK and the new Yips are strong techs.

So yeah, stats matter, unless you're hiding something really strong (and Shiraishi doesn't have it). In fact, as you said, Akutsu's playstyle should counter Shiraishi.

As much as I dislike him, Akutsu should win here.

Oishi/Niou had lower stats, but still won, which helps prove that stats aren't everything

Mitsuya lost to Inui, who has some of the lowest stats of all

I said the 12-19 matches, not 11-20, because I knew Yukimura and Irie had better stats than Akiba and Fuwa

Momo and kenya had lower stats than their opponents and won because of a new technique developed in NPoT, so they still won, which helps prove that stats aren't everything

Akutsu having a natural talent for tennis, being a genius with an unpredictable playstyle actually gives Shiraishi the edge, as that was the same situation when he played Fuji

We haven't seen Shiraishi or Akutsu get serious in a 1 on 1 match in NPoT(except when Ryoga made Akutsu look silly), we've seen them both in doubles, we saw Shiraishi spank 3rd court, and Akutsu get spanked by G10, so we've seen all that Akutsu has to offer, but we haven't seen if Shiraishi has any new techs

 

[Hardy]

Gonna say this, inb4 replies, "the best doesn't always win".

Oishi/Niou had lower stats, but still won, which helps prove that stats aren't everything

Not really. They didn't win because of a tech, they didn't win because of a tennis strategy, they just won because of a trick, almost cheating. They didn't show that they were superior ,and that's what we are looking for here, to know who's better, Shiraishi or Niou. The Mutsus are a better pair than Oishi/Niou, regardless if they lost.

Mitsuya lost to Inui, who has some of the lowest stats of all

Inui's merit in that victory was as big as Mitsuya. He was careless, because he had 67 % chance of winning (or something like that). Again, Mitsuya is better here. And Mitsuya had destroyed 2 people before their match.

I said the 12-19 matches, not 11-20, because I knew Yukimura and Irie had better stats than Akiba and Fuwa

...how convenient, lol.

Momo and kenya had lower stats than their opponents and won because of a new technique developed in NPoT, so they still won, which helps prove that stats aren't everything

I know.

Akutsu having a natural talent for tennis, being a genius with an unpredictable playstyle actually gives Shiraishi the edge, as that was the same situation when he played Fuji

We haven't seen Shiraishi or Akutsu get serious in a 1 on 1 match in NPoT(except when Ryoga made Akutsu look silly), we've seen them both in doubles, we saw Shiraishi spank 3rd court, and Akutsu get spanked by G10, so we've seen all that Akutsu has to offer, but we haven't seen if Shiraishi has any new techs

What? Fuji is predictable as f@ck, all his counters were returnable back then. His improvement is unpredictable, not his moves. It's actually the opposite of Akutsu. In fact, the moment Fuji got a new counter (something unpredictable), Shiraishi lost like 4 or 5 games in a row.

Shiraishi's playstyle is actually the opposite of using special moves, so don't expect anything. And if his databook doesn't say anything new, then I dunno why we should even consider it.

Shiraishi has NOTHING in his favour here. His stats are worse, his playstyle shouldn't be as effective against an unpredictable guy, he has no techs, he isn't good enough to hit 10ao... like seriously, I like Shiraishi and everything, but he has no chance.

 

[redhairSH]

Gonna say this, inb4 replies, "the best doesn't always win".



Not really. They didn't win because of a tech, they didn't win because of a tennis strategy, they just won because of a trick, almost cheating. They didn't show that they were superior ,and that's what we are looking for here, to know who's better, Shiraishi or Niou. The Mutsus are a better pair than Oishi/Niou, regardless if they lost.

Combining Nious ability to turn into one of the Mutsu's with Oishi territory wasn't a trick or cheating(in the NPoT universe), they both used their strengths to come up with a strategy, which is a sign of a good player. They had a superior ability to come up with a mid game strategy - Mutsus use synchro, Niou turns into one, they stop using synchro, Niou becomes Eiji and they use synchro

Inui's merit in that victory was as big as Mitsuya. He was careless, because he had 67 % chance of winning (or something like that). Again, Mitsuya is better here. And Mitsuya had destroyed 2 people before their match.

Inui was able to beat a guy with much better stats by using the data he gathered in the match with Renji and his own determination to win

What? Fuji is predictable as f@ck, all his counters were returnable back then. His improvement is unpredictable, not his moves. It's actually the opposite of Akutsu. In fact, the moment Fuji got a new counter (something unpredictable), Shiraishi lost like 4 or 5 games in a row.

Shiraishi's playstyle is actually the opposite of using special moves, so don't expect anything. And if his databook doesn't say anything new, then I dunno why we should even consider it.

Shiraishi has NOTHING in his favour here. His stats are worse, his playstyle shouldn't be as effective against an unpredictable guy, he has no techs, he isn't good enough to hit 10ao... like seriously, I like Shiraishi and everything, but he has no chance.

Fuji and Akutsu are both natural talents who needed to be defeated to get the motivation to improve. When Fuji played Shiraishi, he had four counters, by the end of the match, he had upgraded the first three, and created the "final counter", which was supposed to be unreturnable. Shiraishi was able to return all 8 of those shots(4 counters, 3 improved versions, 5th counter) in the match. Shiraishi lost some games, but was able to counter everything Fuji was able to come up with.

Shiraishi focuses on the fundamentals, his technique is called perfect tennis, and based on matches we've seen him in, he hasn't faced any shot or technique that he can't figure out how to return during the match.

What Shiraishi has going for him is that he can figure out how to return any tech used against him. As far as the 10 ball thing goes, he might be good enough for it, Tezuka is more skilled than any mser who does have 10 ball but we've never seen him hit it, the only way to know if he can hit 10 ball is if it's used against him and he can't return it

Sanada has 5 ball tech, but he's got better stats than 10 ball tech Akutsu, Sanada has never shown he can hit 10 balls at once

 

[Hardy]

Combining Nious ability to turn into one of the Mutsu's with Oishi territory wasn't a trick or cheating(in the NPoT universe), they both used their strengths to come up with a strategy, which is a sign of a good player. They had a superior ability to come up with a mid game strategy - Mutsus use synchro, Niou turns into one, they stop using synchro, Niou becomes Eiji and they use synchro

...that didn't happen.

All we know is that Niou used synchro with the Mutsus, and that's it. Niou tricked the Mutsus. He and Oishi didn't show to be better. They won? Yes, but that's another topic (I already said this in my last post ).

Inui was able to beat a guy with much better stats by using the data he gathered in the match with Renji and his own determination to win

Did I say that didn't happen? no. But we DO KNOW that Mitsuya was overconfident and, if he had been completely serious or had some data about Inui, he would had won. Mitsuya is better, we know that (...if you don't agree, say why in the tier thread). "The best doesn't always win"(I said this in my last post x2).

Shiraishi focuses on the fundamentals, his technique is called perfect tennis, and based on matches we've seen him in, he hasn't faced any shot or technique that he can't figure out how to return during the match.

What Shiraishi has going for him is that he can figure out how to return any tech used against him. As far as the 10 ball thing goes, he might be good enough for it, Tezuka is more skilled than any mser who does have 10 ball but we've never seen him hit it, the only way to know if he can hit 10 ball is if it's used against him and he can't return it

Sanada has 5 ball tech, but he's got better stats than 10 ball tech Akutsu, Sanada has never shown he can hit 10 balls at once

Actually, Shiraishi said that if Fuji's last shot in their match had been in, he would had lost... so apparently he can't return everything. Same with Kenya scoring 3 times against him using just speed (no special moves).

"What Shiraishi has going for him is that he can figure out how to return any tech used against him" Sadly, Akutsu doesn't have any techs... so, again, how's Shiraishi better?

Also, Shiraishi isn't Sanada nor Tezuka, not even close, lol.

As I said before, if people want to make this a popularity contest I don't mind it, I like Shiraishi way more than Akutsu, but it's just urealistic to think that he's better "just cause". Akutsu has the upper hand here.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

Btw, I dunno why I kept thinking that Akutsu has better stats, they both have 20.

 

[Philia]

I pick Shiraishi. Because he's much more calm. Given enough time I think he'll adjust with Akutsu's style. Once Shiraishi starts dominating its over for Akutsu.

 

[redhairSH]

...that didn't happen.

All we know is that Niou used synchro with the Mutsus, and that's it. Niou tricked the Mutsus. He and Oishi didn't show to be better. They won? Yes, but that's another topic (I already said this in my last post ).

When Niou was Eiji and they were using synchro, they were winning, when Mutsus started using synchro, then Oishi had an idea, and they put it into action

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c061/6.html

Did I say that didn't happen? no. But we DO KNOW that Mitsuya was overconfident and, if he had been completely serious or had some data about Inui, he would had won. Mitsuya is better, we know that (...if you don't agree, say why in the tier thread). "The best doesn't always win"(I said this in my last post x2).

If he wasn't completely serious at first, wouldn't he have started to be once he started losing?

Actually, Shiraishi said that if Fuji's last shot in their match had been in, he would had lost... so apparently he can't return everything. Same with Kenya scoring 3 times against him using just speed (no special moves).

"What Shiraishi has going for him is that he can figure out how to return any tech used against him" Sadly, Akutsu doesn't have any techs... so, again, how's Shiraishi better?

Also, Shiraishi isn't Sanada nor Tezuka, not even close, lol.

As I said before, if people want to make this a popularity contest I don't mind it, I like Shiraishi way more than Akutsu, but it's just urealistic to think that he's better "just cause". Akutsu has the upper hand here.

If akutsu doesn't have any special techs, how would he score on Shiraishi?
Depending on the translation you look up, Shiraishi can also be seen saying that if he hadn't scored that shot, the game would have been tipped in Fuji's favor

Btw, I dunno why I kept thinking that Akutsu has better stats, they both have 20.

really? I was wrong too, I thought Akutsu was better by like 1

 

[Ninomiya]

Depending on the translation you look up, Shiraishi can also be seen saying that if he hadn't scored that shot, the game would have been tipped in Fuji's favor

Yeah there are Translations saying "had that shot gone in... I'd have been in trouble"
But they all imply Fuji would have taken Shiraishi out.
Since after 5thCounter, if Shiraishi cannot return the insane lob that comes after 5thCounter, considering they were at a tie-break, it would have definitely been Fuji's win.
Which is why Kenya comes over to give Shiraishi some assurance that "The winner will win. Right?" or something like that.

If akutsu doesn't have any special techs, how would he score on Shiraishi?

Akutsu is able to hit an Offensive shot from any physical position.
In other words, no matter what awkward position he is on the court, he can hit back a shot that is either a lob or a drop or a strong forehand or backhand regardless.

Akutsu can definitely take points off of Shiraishi the same way Matsudaira/Miyako were in Doubles.

Combining Nious ability to turn into one of the Mutsu's with Oishi territory wasn't a trick or cheating(in the NPoT universe), they both used their strengths to come up with a strategy, which is a sign of a good player. They had a superior ability to come up with a mid game strategy - Mutsus use synchro, Niou turns into one, they stop using synchro, Niou becomes Eiji and they use synchro

Actually its implied Niou stayed as one of the Mutsu's.
Since Mutsu/Mutsu pair would utterly trash Oishi/Kikumaru!Niou Synchro.
Niou Synchro-ing with the Mutsu's means he and Oishi knew everything in their minds and put Niou basically like... 10 steps ahead.
You pretty much can't win a single point if your opponent knows every single place you're trying to hit the ball or how you're going to react a shot in exact detail.

 

[floman]

Yeah there are Translations saying "had that shot gone in... I'd have been in trouble"
But they all imply Fuji would have taken Shiraishi out.
Since after 5thCounter, if Shiraishi cannot return the insane lob that comes after 5thCounter, considering they were at a tie-break, it would have definitely been Fuji's win.
Which is why Kenya comes over to give Shiraishi some assurance that "The winner will win. Right?" or something like that. Akutsu is able to hit an Offensive shot from any physical position.
In other words, no matter what awkward position he is on the court, he can hit back a shot that is either a lob or a drop or a strong forehand or backhand regardless.

Akutsu can definitely take points off of Shiraishi the same way Matsudaira/Miyako were in Doubles.

Shiraishi without the gauntlet would have high enough stats to completely break through the fifth counter. His arm speed increased to the point that Miyako and Matsudaira weren't able to take any points off of him. They found that his leg speed did not increase, however Shiraishi and Akutsu currently have the same speed stat so in that nature they are even.

Before I thought Bible Tennis would be countered by flexible random tennis however, flexible random tennis is also predictable. Akutsu's weak mental strength makes him hit attacks in which he aims at the players body with his power. When Shiraishi increases his swing speed he will be able to see through Akutsu.

Shiraishi's style is that of defeating counters. His service speed was enough to make the third court get caught looking. When they adjusted to his serve, they could only lob it (except the young master purely returned it once). Matsudaira is one stat below akutsu. He is one stat higher in speed and one stat lower in power and technique. I think it is established that Akutsu's power will not overwhelm Shiraishi without the gauntlet. I think Shiraishi pulls ahead on a stat basis and play style-wise they are even.

 

[Kaoz]

Akutsu's weak mental strength makes him hit attacks in which he aims at the players body with his power.

Akutsu's mental is average for a MSer, not terrible. And I don't really know where the second part is from?

Shiraishi's style is that of defeating counters. His service speed was enough to make the third court get caught looking. When they adjusted to his serve, they could only lob it (except the young master purely returned it once).

Matsudaira returned it cleanly as well, the issue was that Akaya unlocked Sane Devil Mode, which resulted in him not getting hit by the returns anymore.

 

[floman]

Akutsu's mental is average for a MSer, not terrible. And I don't really know where the second part is from?



Matsudaira returned it cleanly as well, the issue was that Akaya unlocked Sane Devil Mode, which resulted in him not getting hit by the returns anymore.

Akutsu versus Echizen when Akutsu was provoked he aimed at Echizen's head. If Akutsu loses sight of his mental strength he aims to hurt his opponent (he is also known as a generally violent kid). Shiraishi has increased his swing speed immensely so could therefore return those shots aimed to hurt him.

True it could have been the initial overwhelming, but I still believe in that battle Shiraishi exceeded Matsudaira and Miyako.

 

[Kaoz]

Akutsu versus Echizen when Akutsu was provoked he aimed at Echizen's head. If Akutsu loses sight of his mental strength he aims to hurt his opponent (he is also known as a generally violent kid).

That was certainly true back then, but since Akutsu went through the whole transformation thing in the last match, I don't think it would necessarily be the same now. Also Shiraishi doesn't provoke his opponents nearly as much as Ryoma.

 

[floman]

Spoiler

http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v36/c316/1.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v36/c316/2.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v36/c316/7.html

I really feel like this whole thing was provocation on Shiraishi's part.

Also I didn't think that was his transformation. He was still violent toward Sanada in the match when he kicked him in the stomach. He's still an unconventional ruffian, he just truly enjoys and works at tennis.