Quarterfinal Aladdin vs. Reinhard van Astrea

[Kiki]

​

Battle Phase

• You are allowed to vote for one champion.
• After 3 days, the champion with the most votes will proceed into the next round.
• In case of a tie, a staff pick will break it.
• There will be no additional restrictions. A character will have access to all of his/her abilities according to the lore.

 

[Valhalla]

Last hurrah i guess

... but like all the epic matches in media it always boils down to this

so i gotta make it epic right
well here you go

​

So, there is no way around it, Reinhard is too broken to beat with any conventional means. Interestingly enough this is the first time i came across this character and actually picked up Re:Zero from my watch list (finally).

So how do i beat someone that cant be beaten, well make him forfeit. To do this i will really have to stretch the details, talk possibilities, maybe even play semantics, and do something that is completely out of Aladdin's character but all in the realm of possibilities. All the Magi fans can quote me on everything i just said and tell me im wrong and i will accept it. If the rules tell me i cant do it, i will accept it, and if this does not work i will accept defeat because there is no way to beat Rein.

SO ....

​

Why cant Rein absorb mana/magoi from Aladdin even if we equalize the verses. Simple, magicians from magi work a bit differently than usual magicians. Every magician in the magi verse has magoi in their body, and they use said magoi to command the rukh with a formula which creates a natural phenomenon, a natural element. Rein would definitely be able to completely cripple an ordinary magician in the magi verse, but a MAGI is a completely different ball game. As long as the multiverse exist, a MAGI has an infinite supply of mago via the RUKH. The RUKH is the natural phenomenon that builds the multiverse and that resides in the Rukh World. A magi is loved by the rukh and the rukh will always supply him with magoi, infinitely, or as long as his body can take it. Rein absorbs mana/magoi, from my understanding he cant absorb the very essence of the multiverse. So this is how Aladdin will counter the Vortex imo.

Now onto my FINAL HIDDEN promised EXODIA CARD. As long as the Sacred Palace and the Magi System exist, Aladdin is basically immortal. The moment he dies, the rukh will guide him to the Sacred Palace, and after that UGO, the Omnipotent GOD of the Magi World (basically the author of the Magi story) will constantly send him back in three ways:

• reincarnating and reappearing in a new body with all his previous knowledge, like the magi Yunan​
• transferring the soul to a different compatible body with all the previous knowledge and power, like the magi Scheherazade​
• or just being born again as a baby, like the magi Judar (not a spoiler, since this is what we saw in his memories during his stay at the village, and before he was abducted by Al-Thamen)​

So if Aladdin dies, his essence and soul will return to the Sacred Palace and Ugo will return him back. Why is that important to know. Well it goes hand in hand with the second part of the HIDDEN EXODIA CARD. Unlike the other magi, Aladdin is a special existence from a higher world, called Alma Torran. He is Solomon's Avatar and Ugo serves him as his protector. Because of his important existence in the very first chapter Ugo said to Aladdin that if he so wished for he can rule as god however he likes, eternal life, wealth etc. but Aladdin refused, because thats not Aladdin's character. The one wish Aladdin wanted, was for friends and going on a journey. That was it. Throughout the story, that is what Aladdin valued the most and he would never betray his ideals, despite the fact that he could have become an omnipotent GOD. Sinbad called him out on that in the very final arc. If he so wished for it, he could just go to the Sacred Palace via Solomon's Wisdom and rewrite the universe however he liked.

Here is where Solomon's Wisdom comes into play. SW is the most broken thing Aladdin has and the only thing that can do anything against Rein. But not as an attack, but the very thing it stands for, which is connecting Aladdin to the Rukh World and the Sacred Palace. If Aladdin goes against everything he stands for, disregards everything he believes in, he would use Solomon's Wisdom to connect to the Sacred Palace and can use its power to basically become the author of the story, just like Ugo, Sinbad and David. Righ then, the verse will become fiction to him. With the Sacred Palace under his control, he could rewrite Rein's soul and destiny and make it so that he, Aladdin, is the entity of his worship and the reason of his existence. Rein would thus forfeit without him even knowing. A character from a story cant beat its author. Unless Rein is immune to Nagatsuki Teppei's order. If he is ill drop my hat lol

So if by any chance, Rein kills Aladdin before he activates SW, its still a potential win for Aladdin. Why? Because the essence of Aladdin will go to the Sacred Palace either way. And after that, if we disregard Aladdin's character, Ugo would realize his wish of becoming god and taking control over the Sacred Palace. Here is an interesting question. Can souls or mere essences of rukh do that? Of course they can. Its what Sinbad did. A mere soul made Ugo give up the control over the Sacred Palace.

And that is IT, that is the only possible way of Aladdin winning against Rein. If this does not work, then i may as well forfeit right here and now. Same as if the Magi fans deny this possibility. I will accept it, but its all in the story. Like the saying goes, the devil is in the details. But consider also this, if this is accepted Aladdin wins the tournament. With this, Aladdin has a sure win condition whether he lives or dies.

Enjoy


Oh and i forgot. Why cant Rein absorb Aladdin's barrier. Easy. Aladdin's Borg Al Samm, or mama borg as i like to call it, cant be penetrated by gods like Sinbad or Solomon. And during the final battle a far weaker barrier that stretched out through part of a continent was holding down the Angels of the Sacred Palace. The angels on impact absorb rukh and erase existence, yet Aladdin's borg withstood it while holding down thousands of angels at once. Aladdin's borg is another one of the three broken haxes he possess.

​

 

[Nie Li]

Haxes, haxes everywhere.

 

[Valhalla]

Its the top 8 there are gonna be haxes that are borderline criminal lol

Im off to sleep. Been a very busy day at work ... on a freaking friday, and then making this to give some enjoyment to this battle. Im done lol ...
@Lambu starting season 2

 

[Nie Li]

Its the top 8 there are gonna be haxes that are borderline criminal lol

Im off to sleep. Been a very busy day at work ... on a freaking friday, and then making this to give some enjoyment to this battle. Im done lol ...
@Lambu starting season 2

Your campaigns with manga panels are the best. Totally worth the effort.

 

[GrySun]

No way Lambu can beat that right?

 

[SonOfDaws]

Last hurrah i guess

... but like all the epic matches in media it always boils down to this

so i gotta make it epic right
well here you go

​

So, there is no way around it, Reinhard is too broken to beat with any conventional means. Interestingly enough this is the first time i came across this character and actually picked up Re:Zero from my watch list (finally).

So how do i beat someone that cant be beaten, well make him forfeit. To do this i will really have to stretch the details, talk possibilities, maybe even play semantics, and do something that is completely out of Aladdin's character but all in the realm of possibilities. All the Magi fans can quote me on everything i just said and tell me im wrong and i will accept it. If the rules tell me i cant do it, i will accept it, and if this does not work i will accept defeat because there is no way to beat Rein.

SO ....

​

Why cant Rein absorb mana/magoi from Aladdin even if we equalize the verses. Simple, magicians from magi work a bit differently than usual magicians. Every magician in the magi verse has magoi in their body, and they use said magoi to command the rukh with a formula which creates a natural phenomenon, a natural element. Rein would definitely be able to completely cripple an ordinary magician in the magi verse, but a MAGI is a completely different ball game. As long as the multiverse exist, a MAGI has an infinite supply of mago via the RUKH. The RUKH is the natural phenomenon that builds the multiverse and that resides in the Rukh World. A magi is loved by the rukh and the rukh will always supply him with magoi, infinitely, or as long as his body can take it. Rein absorbs mana/magoi, from my understanding he cant absorb the very essence of the multiverse. So this is how Aladdin will counter the Vortex imo.

Now onto my FINAL HIDDEN promised EXODIA CARD. As long as the Sacred Palace and the Magi System exist, Aladdin is basically immortal. The moment he dies, the rukh will guide him to the Sacred Palace, and after that UGO, the Omnipotent GOD of the Magi World (basically the author of the Magi story) will constantly send him back in three ways:

• reincarnating and reappearing in a new body with all his previous knowledge, like the magi Yunan​
• instantly transferring the soul to a different compatible body with all the previous knowledge and power, like the magi Scheherazade​
• or just being born again as a baby, like the magi Judar (not a spoiler, since this is what we saw in his memories during his stay at the village, and before he was abducted by Al-Thamen)​

So if Aladdin dies, his essence and soul will return to the Sacred Palace and Ugo will return him back. Why is that important to know. Well it goes hand in hand with the second part of the HIDDEN EXODIA CARD. Unlike the other magi, Aladdin is a special existence from a higher world, called Alma Torran. He is Solomon's Avatar and Ugo serves him as his protector. Because of his important existence in the very first chapter Ugo said to Aladdin that if he so wished for he can rule as god however he likes, eternal life, wealth etc. but Aladdin refused, because thats not Aladdin's character. The one wish Aladdin wanted, was for friends and going on a journey. That was it. Throughout the story, that is what Aladdin valued the most and he would never betray his ideals, despite the fact that he could have become an omnipotent GOD. Sinbad called him out on that in the very final arc. If he so wished for it, he could just go to the Sacred Palace via Solomon's Wisdom and rewrite the universe however he liked.

Here is where Solomon's Wisdom comes into play. SW is the most broken thing Aladdin has and the only thing that can do anything against Rein. But not as an attack, but the very thing it stands for, which is connecting Aladdin to the Rukh World and the Sacred Palace. If Aladdin goes against everything he stands for, disregards everything he believes in, he would use Solomon's Wisdom to connect to the Sacred Palace and can use its power to basically become the author of the story, just like Ugo, Sinbad and David. Righ then, the verse will become fiction to him. With the Sacred Palace under his control, he could rewrite Rein's soul and destiny and make it so that he is the entity of his worship and the reason of his existence. Rein would thus forfeit without him even knowing. A character from a story cant beat its author. Unless Rein is immune to Nagatsuki Teppei's order. If he is ill drop my hat lol

So if by any chance, Rein kills Aladdin before he activates SW, its still a potential win for Aladdin. Why? Because the essence of Aladdin will go to the Sacred Palace either way. And after that, if we disregard Aladdin's character, Ugo would realize his wish of becoming god and taking control over the Sacred Palace. Here is an interesting question. Can souls or mere essences of rukh do that? Of course they can. Its what Sinbad did. A mere soul made Ugo give up the control over the Sacred Palace.

And that is it, that is the only possible way of Aladdin winning against Rein. If this does not work, then i may as well forfeit right here and now. Same as if the Magi fans deny this possibility. I will accept it, but its all in the story. Like the saying goes, the devil is in the details. But consider also this, if this is accepted Aladdin wins the tournament. With this, Aladdin has a sure win condition whether he lives or dies.

Enjoy


Oh and i forgot. Why cant Rein absorb Aladdin's barrier. Easy. Aladdin's Borg Al Samm, or mama borg as i like to call it, cant be penetrated by gods like Sinbad or Solomon. And during the final battle a far weaker barrier that stretched out through part of a continent was holding down the Angels of the Sacred Palace. The angels on impact absorb rukh and erase existence, yet Aladdin's borg withstood it while holding down thousands of angels at once. Aladdin's borg is another one of the three broken haxes he possess.

​

Got my vote. Easy. I don't even like Aladdin all that much, especially compared to Solomon, but I've got mad respect for this campaign.

 

[Lambu]

It started

Best regards @Valhalla777 , legendary battle without doubt. o/

Last hurrah i guess

... but like all the epic matches in media it always boils down to this

so i gotta make it epic right
well here you go

​

So, there is no way around it, Reinhard is too broken to beat with any conventional means. Interestingly enough this is the first time i came across this character and actually picked up Re:Zero from my watch list (finally).

So how do i beat someone that cant be beaten, well make him forfeit. To do this i will really have to stretch the details, talk possibilities, maybe even play semantics, and do something that is completely out of Aladdin's character but all in the realm of possibilities. All the Magi fans can quote me on everything i just said and tell me im wrong and i will accept it. If the rules tell me i cant do it, i will accept it, and if this does not work i will accept defeat because there is no way to beat Rein.

SO ....

​

Why cant Rein absorb mana/magoi from Aladdin even if we equalize the verses. Simple, magicians from magi work a bit differently than usual magicians. Every magician in the magi verse has magoi in their body, and they use said magoi to command the rukh with a formula which creates a natural phenomenon, a natural element. Rein would definitely be able to completely cripple an ordinary magician in the magi verse, but a MAGI is a completely different ball game. As long as the multiverse exist, a MAGI has an infinite supply of mago via the RUKH. The RUKH is the natural phenomenon that builds the multiverse and that resides in the Rukh World. A magi is loved by the rukh and the rukh will always supply him with magoi, infinitely, or as long as his body can take it. Rein absorbs mana/magoi, from my understanding he cant absorb the very essence of the multiverse. So this is how Aladdin will counter the Vortex imo.

Now onto my FINAL HIDDEN promised EXODIA CARD. As long as the Sacred Palace and the Magi System exist, Aladdin is basically immortal. The moment he dies, the rukh will guide him to the Sacred Palace, and after that UGO, the Omnipotent GOD of the Magi World (basically the author of the Magi story) will constantly send him back in three ways:

• reincarnating and reappearing in a new body with all his previous knowledge, like the magi Yunan​
• instantly transferring the soul to a different compatible body with all the previous knowledge and power, like the magi Scheherazade​
• or just being born again as a baby, like the magi Judar (not a spoiler, since this is what we saw in his memories during his stay at the village, and before he was abducted by Al-Thamen)​

So if Aladdin dies, his essence and soul will return to the Sacred Palace and Ugo will return him back. Why is that important to know. Well it goes hand in hand with the second part of the HIDDEN EXODIA CARD. Unlike the other magi, Aladdin is a special existence from a higher world, called Alma Torran. He is Solomon's Avatar and Ugo serves him as his protector. Because of his important existence in the very first chapter Ugo said to Aladdin that if he so wished for he can rule as god however he likes, eternal life, wealth etc. but Aladdin refused, because thats not Aladdin's character. The one wish Aladdin wanted, was for friends and going on a journey. That was it. Throughout the story, that is what Aladdin valued the most and he would never betray his ideals, despite the fact that he could have become an omnipotent GOD. Sinbad called him out on that in the very final arc. If he so wished for it, he could just go to the Sacred Palace via Solomon's Wisdom and rewrite the universe however he liked.

Here is where Solomon's Wisdom comes into play. SW is the most broken thing Aladdin has and the only thing that can do anything against Rein. But not as an attack, but the very thing it stands for, which is connecting Aladdin to the Rukh World and the Sacred Palace. If Aladdin goes against everything he stands for, disregards everything he believes in, he would use Solomon's Wisdom to connect to the Sacred Palace and can use its power to basically become the author of the story, just like Ugo, Sinbad and David. Righ then, the verse will become fiction to him. With the Sacred Palace under his control, he could rewrite Rein's soul and destiny and make it so that he is the entity of his worship and the reason of his existence. Rein would thus forfeit without him even knowing. A character from a story cant beat its author. Unless Rein is immune to Nagatsuki Teppei's order. If he is ill drop my hat lol

So if by any chance, Rein kills Aladdin before he activates SW, its still a potential win for Aladdin. Why? Because the essence of Aladdin will go to the Sacred Palace either way. And after that, if we disregard Aladdin's character, Ugo would realize his wish of becoming god and taking control over the Sacred Palace. Here is an interesting question. Can souls or mere essences of rukh do that? Of course they can. Its what Sinbad did. A mere soul made Ugo give up the control over the Sacred Palace.

And that is it, that is the only possible way of Aladdin winning against Rein. If this does not work, then i may as well forfeit right here and now. Same as if the Magi fans deny this possibility. I will accept it, but its all in the story. Like the saying goes, the devil is in the details. But consider also this, if this is accepted Aladdin wins the tournament. With this, Aladdin has a sure win condition whether he lives or dies.

Enjoy


Oh and i forgot. Why cant Rein absorb Aladdin's barrier. Easy. Aladdin's Borg Al Samm, or mama borg as i like to call it, cant be penetrated by gods like Sinbad or Solomon. And during the final battle a far weaker barrier that stretched out through part of a continent was holding down the Angels of the Sacred Palace. The angels on impact absorb rukh and erase existence, yet Aladdin's borg withstood it while holding down thousands of angels at once. Aladdin's borg is another one of the three broken haxes he possess.

​

Before anything else, I've got to say the edit was superb Im pretty sure seeing those two fighting is OoC in itself lmao but makes it as epic.

First, I was kind of surprised with the similarities between conceptual ideas of Magi and Re:Zero being close in some aspects. Like the universe existing for a supernatural "object" that keeps existence together and the like.
Also the Palace of Solomon being shown as a Library and the Pleiades Watchtower holding the same trait as a portal towards the Hall of Memories (one spectrum of Od Laguna). I feel like Re:Zero took a lot of inspiration from different stories and it wouldnt surprise me if Magi was one of them.

After looking at Aladdin's skills I knew that the only thing that could mess with Reinhard would be Solomon's Wisdom as, if we set them both on a common ground, its greatest asset is rewriting one's soul or fate. Basically the most effective weapon he could raise against Rein since in terms of raw combat strength and defence its in the red head's favour (too haxy defensive abilities, respawn and conceptual destruction).

Now that raises the question:
Would Soul Manipulation or Soul Erasure work on Reinhard?
I stand for what I said in the Hangout thread days ago, it will not work and there are feats for that.


In Arc 6 of the story, Subaru&Co wander into the Pleiades Watchtower. Basically the Abode of the Great Sage and the place where Satella is sealed. In there they encounter the spirit of Reid Astrea, the first Sword Saint that fought Satella 400 years ago. The Dragon Sword of Reinhard is named "Reid" after its first master, the guy is basically the incarnation of a God of War and his descendants were granted the Blessing of the Sword Saint.

The thing is, for reasons I wont elaborate, Gluttony entered the Tower and tried using his Authority of Name Erasure on Reid's Spirit in order to eliminate his concept and take his memories.
This power consists in erasing the Od/soul's information, rewriting the very existence of the target and making them cease to exist in all possible ways: its like you never existed, the entire past and present is rewritten to fit that person's "disappereance". No one will even remember the victim, you get the concept of your Soul eaten = you are nothing, and were always nothing. Insane.
Only a fragment of the victim's soul remains in Od Laguna itself. Since it works as a crystal refracting all reality, a tiny bit of the information resides there as an ultimate resistance but thats about it.

And well, yeah, it didnt work on Reid's Spirit. The "Sword God" avatar cannot have their soul rewritten or erased. On the contrary, after Gluttony devoured Reid's Soul the Spirit just took over the Sin's body and vanished its soul instead (lol)

It has been established that Reinhard is considerably more powerful than Reid, more blessed by Od Laguna than him and when using the Reid Sword he becomes virtually unstoppable for he's enabled to eliminate anything. Reinhard is the incarnation of All of the Universe's efforts to make the invincible avatar. His only bounds are his own morals and the protection of the people. Once into combat without no casualties involved he's the Strongest Hero.

^Reinhard casually destroying the world to then reconstruct it to how it was before the calamity. Just Rein things...


Not going to lie, Aladdin is extremely haxy and its a worthy opponent for Rein in a vs. Solomon's Wisdom is capable of messing with 95% of the top characters of most series. Rein just belongs to that uncommon 5% that possess antihax even on Soul and Fate level (that arent Supreme author gods or Creators).

And yeah, he nerfs himself in his own world cause, unlike other series that I dont want to point out (...yeah...), releasing an attack that can destroy a continent will kill *cough* a lot of people.

^Reinhard casually blowing up a church for hitting Regulus a bit too hard (huh).

If there are any questions regarding Reinhard and theorical methods to take him down I will answer gladly o/

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2021 ---

@SonOfDaws you didn't even wait for me to post, shame on you, shame!

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@Valhalla777

 

[Valhalla]

It started

Best regards @Valhalla777 , legendary battle without doubt. o/



Before anything else, I've got to say the edit was superb Im pretty sure seeing those two fighting is OoC in itself lmao but makes it as epic.

First, I was kind of surprised with the similarities between conceptual ideas of Magi and Re:Zero being close in some aspects. Like the universe existing for a supernatural "object" that keeps existence together and the like.
Also the Palace of Solomon being shown as a Library and the Pleiades Watchtower holding the same trait as a portal towards the Hall of Memories (one spectrum of Od Laguna). I feel like Re:Zero took a lot of inspiration from different stories and it wouldnt surprise me if Magi was one of them.

After looking at Aladdin's skills I knew that the only thing that could mess with Reinhard would be Solomon's Wisdom as, if we set them both on a common ground, its greatest asset is rewriting one's soul or fate. Basically the most effective weapon he could raise against Rein since in terms of raw combat strength and defence its in the red head's favour (too haxy defensive abilities, respawn and conceptual destruction).

Now that raises the question:
Would Soul Manipulation or Soul Erasure work on Reinhard?
I stand for what I said in the Hangout thread days ago, it will not work and there are feats for that.


In Arc 6 of the story, Subaru&Co wander into the Pleiades Watchtower. Basically the Abode of the Great Sage and the place where Satella is sealed. In there they encounter the spirit of Reid Astrea, the first Sword Saint that fought Satella 400 years ago. The Dragon Sword of Reinhard is named "Reid" after its first master, the guy is basically the incarnation of a God of War and his descendants were granted the Blessing of the Sword Saint.

The thing is, for reasons I wont elaborate, Gluttony entered the Tower and tried using his Authority of Name Erasure on Reid's Spirit in order to eliminate his concept and take his memories.
This power consists in erasing the Od/soul's information, rewriting the very existence of the target and making them cease to exist in all possible ways: its like you never existed, the entire past and present is rewritten to fit that person's "disappereance". No one will even remember the victim, you get the concept of your Soul eaten = you are nothing, and were always nothing. Insane.
Only a fragment of the victim's soul remains in Od Laguna itself. Since it works as a crystal refracting all reality, a tiny bit of the information resides there as an ultimate resistance but thats about it.

And well, yeah, it didnt work on Reid's Spirit. The "Sword God" avatar cannot have their soul rewritten or erased. On the contrary, after Gluttony devoured Reid's Soul the Spirit just took over the Sin's body and vanished its soul instead (lol)

It has been established that Reinhard is considerably more powerful than Reid, more blessed by Od Laguna than him and when using the Reid Sword he becomes virtually unstoppable for he's enabled to eliminate anything. Reinhard is the incarnation of All of the Universe's efforts to make the invincible avatar. His only bounds are his own morals and the protection of the people. Once into combat without no casualties involved he's the Strongest Hero.

^Reinhard casually destroying the world to then reconstruct it to how it was before the calamity. Just Rein things...


Not going to lie, Aladdin is extremely haxy and its a worthy opponent for Rein in a vs. Solomon's Wisdom is capable of messing with 95% of the top characters of most series. Rein just belongs to that uncommon 5% that possess antihax even on Soul and Fate level (that arent Supreme author gods or Creators).

And yeah, he nerfs himself in his own world cause, unlike other series that I dont want to point out (...yeah...), releasing an attack that can destroy a continent will kill *cough* a lot of people.

^Reinhard casually blowing up a church for hitting Regulus a bit too hard (huh).

If there are any questions regarding Reinhard and theorical methods to take him down I will answer gladly o/

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2021 ---

@SonOfDaws you didn't even wait for me to post, shame on you, shame!

I thought i would be asleep by now but been watching season 2

So here is me kinda shooting myself in the foot, but F it.
Yeah about the author stuff regarding god Ugo, one could also consider it a play on semantics from my side, but its still has merrit.
As the creator of the Magi world, the observer of fate and the one that controls it for that particular world, he considered himself as an omnipotent author, and trust me with good reason, but if i were to equalize the verses, i guess he would be something akin to the god of the Re:Zero world or maybe this Od Laguna thing (for some reason i could not find that much information about it, but oddly enough Ugo and Od Laguna have a similar role for their "kings"). If his authorities over the verse cant really influence Rein's actions then Aladdin with Solomon's Wisdom and the Sacred Palace probably wouldnt either. He could affect the rest of the universe, but i guess Rein would notice that since with Reid he would resist it i guess.

After that its just a loop, no matter how many times Aladdin comes back to life, Rein can do the same and will eventually win all his rounds.
Sadly Aladdin is no Sinbad and he cant ascend to an even higher layer. BUT, big BUT, i guess i will leave it to the people to decide which god is stronger or higher in the hierarchy, and which authorities outrule the other.

Interestingly enough, despite all that Rein will still stay in character lol, but Aladdin on the other hand, to do everything i mentioned, and to pose a threat to Rein, he would need to go apeshit and out of character


You mentioned something in the hangout thread, about Rein and Homura being the strongest left, i disagree imo the strongest characters that are left are fighting right here and now actually that Alesiter guy looks more scarrier than Homura in terms of power if you ask me, at least thats the impression i got from Hermit's campaigns

 

[Brandish μ]

Alladdin gets my vote due to Natsu salt the canon panels Val presented.

 

[Shinigami769]

voting aladdin because its a joke the other guy got by alucard.

 

[Lambu]

Im starting to wonder how much people will actually care about the discussion and VS itself...
Idk guys, I loved Val's campaign but I thought this was about the battle and debating who wins.

Anyway,

I thought i would be asleep by now but been watching season 2

So here is me kinda shooting myself in the foot, but F it.
Yeah about the author stuff regarding god Ugo, one could also consider it a play on semantics from my side, but its still has merrit.
As the creator of the Magi world, the observer of fate and the one that controls it for that particular world, he considered himself as an omnipotent author, and trust me with good reason, but if i were to equalize the verses, i guess he would be something akin to the god of the Re:Zero world or maybe this Od Laguna thing (for some reason i could not find that much information about it, but oddly enough Ugo and Od Laguna have a similar role for their "kings"). If his authorities over the verse cant really influence Rein's actions then Aladdin with Solomon's Wisdom and the Sacred Palace probably wouldnt either. He could affect the rest of the universe, but i guess Rein would notice that since with Reid he would resist it i guess.

After that its just a loop, no matter how many times Aladdin comes back to life, Rein can do the same and will eventually win all his rounds.
Sadly Aladdin is no Sinbad and he cant ascend to an even higher layer. BUT, big BUT, i guess i will leave it to the people to decide which god is stronger or higher in the hierarchy, and which authorities outrule the other.

Interestingly enough, despite all that Rein will still stay in character lol, but Aladdin on the other hand, to do everything i mentioned, and to pose a threat to Rein, he would need to go apeshit and out of character


You mentioned something in the hangout thread, about Rein and Homura being the strongest left, i disagree imo the strongest characters that are left are fighting right here and now actually that Alesiter guy looks more scarrier than Homura in terms of power if you ask me, at least thats the impression i got from Hermit's campaigns

Isn't Ugo a Djinn tho? I mean, as far as Im concerned he was a Magi under Solomon's command, Solomon being the Magi that got closer to God status.
As far as Im concerned its: God that set the Magi Universe > Solomon (Greatest Magi) > David/Sinbad > Aladdin. Aladdin ascended a step at the end of the manga tho.

Just curiosity btw, Im not versed in Magi and I need education.

Also yeah, its kind of what we discussed in the Hangout thread. The major problem for Aladdin is that Reinhard can just restore himself if Aladdin tries rewriting something about him, he can wish for the Divine Blessings to come back and take the upper hand again.
If Aladdin was a villain he might be unable to win the battle but could "win the war" by eliminating everyone and everything that Reinhard swore to protect, basically make him lose his purpose as a Hero, but this is a battle between the characters and Reinhard would not allow it.

Besides I do think character personality matters. We judged Gilgamesh couldn't defeat Madara because we all know he wouldn't start a battle by spamming his strongest Noble Phantasms and use them to its best efficiency. If Aladdin has to go extremely out of character to show some resistance I dont think its legit. I would say that Aladdin forfeits and then both go get some coffee at the closest shop


Btw I do think that Aladdin is very close there, Im only basing my thought of Homura being higher for being theorically on pair with Madoka. Aleister is a counter to magic in general so thats why he's so op in his universe, but I dont think he's higher than Aladdin either if he goes all out, just my opinion tho.

 

[Valhalla]

Isn't Ugo a Djinn tho? I mean, as far as Im concerned he was a Magi under Solomon's command, Solomon being the Magi that got closer to God status.
As far as Im concerned its: God that set the Magi Universe > Solomon (Greatest Magi) > David/Sinbad > Aladdin. Aladdin ascended a step at the end of the manga tho.

Spoiler

Yeah ill have to get into some spoiler territory to explain this.
Yep, Ugo was a magi from Alma Torran that served Solomon. After the god of Alma Torran was overthrown Solomon became the god of Alma Torran, but because of this, something happened to that world and it became almost uninhabitable. Ugo then used the power of the dimension where the previous god of Alma Torran resided and he created a completely new universe. That universe became the Magi world, and the dimension that Ugo used became the Sacred Palace. With the power of the Sacred Palace Ugo also became a djinn.
In the Magi verse there is a hierarchical ladder between the universes. Each higher universe views the universe below it as fiction. So:
Sinbad's Quill (Il Illah) < Magi verse ( god Ugo ) < Alma Torran (god Solomon) < next universe (next god) .... and so on while each god dictating the one below it

Aladdin and Ugo are both from Alma Torran. Since Aladdin is Solomon's son, Ugo considered him his master and offered him his place to rule the Magi verse, but eventually Aladdin refused him and just wanted to go on adventures, and he didnt want Ugo as a master but as a friend. There is a very cool panel in the manga of Aladdin reading the story of Magi before Ugo sent him there. It basically depicts how Ugo, from Alma Torran, views the Magi verse that he created and is still creating it and managing its rules.

 

[Lambu]

Ohh ok now I get it. Its a Dimension inside another dimension that is also inside another dimension. Like a Matryoshka doll

 

[Valhalla]

Ohh ok now I get it. Its a Dimension inside another dimension that is also inside another dimension. Like a Matryoshka doll

Yep, there is no end to it and each universe has its horizontal different dimensions and countless alternate realities.
Im still not versed with Re:Zero lore, or a series like Umineko and similar ... but from what ive read thus far, Magi has one of the most complex and expansive verses ive seen in manga

 

[Purity of Magi]

 

[Lambu]

Yep, there is no end to it and each universe has its horizontal different dimensions and countless alternate realities.
Im still not versed with Re:Zero lore, or a series like Umineko and similar ... but from what ive read, Magi has one of the most complex and expansive verses ive seen in manga

Yep its quite intriguing to say the least.

Re:Zero is a bit different in this case. Od Laguna is like the "Control Room" kind of thing that keeps all existence and its multiple dimensions there. Its like a lightbulb that irradiates light, giving form and being to anything, and what everything in Re:Zero is its just the refraction of that light.
Beings with Authorities (Witches) can distort the refraction and go against the original "design" imprinted by the lightbulb.

Thats why if you go to The Pleiades Watchtower you can just read the book of someone's life and obtain all its memories, experiences and basically become that person (you go very very insane as a result).

Its a different concept for a Universe. We only know that Satella can even move in different full fledged Universes like ours (Modern Japan) and drag a living person into a completely different one with no Soul or reincarnation involved (no Truck-kun).
This means she's a thing outside the Re:Zeroverse, yet she cannot defeat Reinhard as he is the very manifestation of Od Laguna's powers to resist those Authorities.

So I dont think we can place Od Laguna inside any of the "dolls" if you know what I mean. Its just a different structure.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2021 ---

Magi whats your opinion on the VS?

 

[Purity of Magi]

or a series like Umineko and similar ... but from what ive read thus far, Magi has one of the most complex and expansive verses ive seen in manga

Let me just say this in a simple way without much spoilers behind.

Spoiler: Gajeel if you open this its your own risk

The higher up beings within the Magi verse (in this context I am talking about the Magi story as a whole including the hierarchy), would be seen by the higher up beings (The two/three voyager witches (Lambda, Bern, Piece) and Featherine (who even looks down upon those voyager witches)) in Umineko as nothing more, but a chess piece.

Spoiler: this mere sentence is really... spoiler so open it if you do not mind to get spoilers

(Note: mind you, they themselves are not even part of the Umineko story. The Umineko story/verse is for them nothing more but a gameboard that they use to ease their boredom + only if ''your'' story is interesting enough to be noticed by them lol).

That aside, yes, Magi has a powerful franchise due to the hierarchy that exist in the Magi verse.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2021 ---

Magi whats your opinion on the VS?

Hmmm.. it kind of depends actually. In what point of view do you want me to look at this battle? Are we talking about facts here what both characters do have or are we going beyond that (as in Aladdin counting on Ugo for example) and the likes? Imo, I think it should be looked upon with what the characters have as their own feats rather taking say trasncedent character into the play that turned themselves into a deity (feels kinda like a third party getting involved).

I have to think a bit more about it.. because, if say I will disregard that, Aladdin still has Solomon's wisdom (which is particulary connected to the abilities that Solomon himself has, he is Solomon's proxy after all), meanwhile Reinhard does have his blessing which he got from Rein (is this correct or was it a different name? I forgot XD) and can wish whatever he wants within his verse (is this correct again? I might even gonna read Re:Zero soon lol).

Hmmmmm.....


If say what I just said right now is all the truth/correct than my answer would be.................



'3'




*To be continued*

 

[Valhalla]

Interesting about the third party help
Aside from the phoenix powers, does Reinhard need to wish for it to get it, or will Od Laguna automatically give him the blessing without him even asking.
This goes back to what i said about Aladdin disregarding his own character. If Od Laguna gives on request, a completely different and arrogant Aladdin can do the same and ask Ugo for any wish after he reaches the Sacred Palace. I do agree with Magu, its a very questionable thing on Aladdin's side, but not in the realm of not being possible imo
And like Sinbad said, with Solomon's Wisdom he can go to the Sacred Palace and play god as well.