Discussion Already Awakened DF?

[Kato756]

Let me say that this is more of a casual discussion, since we still don´t any concrete details on awakenings yet.

With that being said, I have been thinking: While not outright-retconing stuff, Oda has shown us with Haki that he can change some details about past stuff, like the black coloring of Armament: I am pretty sure almost everyone at MarineFord was using it, and so was Sentomaru in that brief exchange of blows with Luffy.

With that in mind, we also know that:
- from Impel Down that the concept of "Awakenig" existed in his mind
- That most awakenings look liked they affect either the area around the user, or in case of Zoans, some sort of buff.


So, what I propose is that we discuss if there were any Awakened fruits in the first part of One Piece History!


So my candidates:

1) Crocodile
The guy can suck the moisture and turn anything around him in Sand (and it should be noted that his fruit is the Sand Sand, not the Dry-Dry), and was the one that first talked about awakening, I think hes a very safe bet

2) Enel.
This is more of a subtle one, mainly because I think he did a very op combo with his Haki.
What are thoughts and movements? Eletric Impulses by the brain.
What does Haki allow you to predict? The above
Combine both aspects with someone who ate the Goro-Goro no mi, and awakened it, and we have someone capable of seensing the eletric impulses of everyone on a VERY big range, and strike then from afar. Also, theres the whole "Destroy the place he came from" we never got any clarity about.

3) Luci and CP9

This is more of a "fake awakening", but considering their bulkier sizes, I assume the effects of Life Control are similar to what the awakening of Zoans does.

 

[BetaRuler]

Croco mebbe, didnt he boast about pushing his fruits mastery to the max? Would certainly be cool to know what awakening for a logia actually does for them.

I also figured mebbe choppers monster form was part awakening, mebbe not fully though as it seems to tire him out instead XD
Also Brooks newer DF powers letting him go roaming around spooky style,,, inb4 sumbody tells me i cant just go and call everything awakening!

 

[MOYcano 0.23]

I honestly believe Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Culverin is impossible without awakening;
His arm is bouncing on mid-air! Shouldn't that count as modifying the environment?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Croc is a given one, always was a big supporter of this theory. Ground Sekko turns the environment in a dessert in a mere second for christs sake.

Chopper i would also go with you, but Enel nah. He needed a catalysator for his big attacks, or atleast build it up over time.

CP9 i dont think so. Kaku just became his fruit to remind you and he was bulky like the others.

I always wanted to know what would Buggys Fruit look like in an awakened state. Could he rearrange everything around him like Law? Or would it just help to create even smaller parts?

 

[kkck]

I have my doubts about crocodile being capable of awakening. We have seen two awakenings recently doflamingo's and katakuri's. Both of them work similarly, they turn their surroundings into their corresponding element so to speak. However the way this works is substantially different from what crocodile does. We have seen crocodile turn stuff into sand however the way he does it is by either absorbing the moisture within it OR by grinding stuff into sand. Basically, crocodile turns stuff into sand by applying his generic ability to it. However he probably can't turn stuff into sand that does not have the potential to be grinded into sand to begin with. For instance, back at ID he turned a door into sand but he didn't turn the metal or bolts in it into sand. If crocodile had been using an awakening at that point then the metal would have turned into sand as well.

If enel had an awakening then odds are stuff around him would turn into electricity. His ability to mix haki and his fruit were indeed a very advanced skill however not evidence of an awakening. Realistically speaking the most likely candidates to awakenings should be top tier people. Enel was strong but he didn't have even the basics of armament down, arguably the most fundamental type of haki altogether. Crocodile did not evidence any haki at all back in the day, he seemed to basically carry himself due to being a competent logia user who fought via dehydrating his enemies rather than fighting them via strength.

The most likely candidates for awakenings are admirals, commanders... It doesn't seem like marco has awakening though he does seem like a prime candidate for it. Awakenings for zoan seem dangerous though, going by the ID guys it doesn't seem like they get to keep their intelligence.

 

[Kato756]

I have my doubts about crocodile being capable of awakening. We have seen two awakenings recently doflamingo's and katakuri's. Both of them work similarly, they turn their surroundings into their corresponding element so to speak. However the way this works is substantially different from what crocodile does. We have seen crocodile turn stuff into sand however the way he does it is by either absorbing the moisture within it OR by grinding stuff into sand. Basically, crocodile turns stuff into sand by applying his generic ability to it. However he probably can't turn stuff into sand that does not have the potential to be grinded into sand to begin with. For instance, back at ID he turned a door into sand but he didn't turn the metal or bolts in it into sand. If crocodile had been using an awakening at that point then the metal would have turned into sand as well.

If enel had an awakening then odds are stuff around him would turn into electricity. His ability to mix haki and his fruit were indeed a very advanced skill however not evidence of an awakening. Realistically speaking the most likely candidates to awakenings should be top tier people. Enel was strong but he didn't have even the basics of armament down, arguably the most fundamental type of haki altogether. Crocodile did not evidence any haki at all back in the day, he seemed to basically carry himself due to being a competent logia user who fought via dehydrating his enemies rather than fighting them via strength.

The most likely candidates for awakenings are admirals, commanders... It doesn't seem like marco has awakening though he does seem like a prime candidate for it. Awakenings for zoan seem dangerous though, going by the ID guys it doesn't seem like they get to keep their intelligence.

Good catch on Croco´s. Maybe it was a "half-awakening", but I still think that at least that ability is a step up the road for him.
His fruit is after all the Sand one, not the Moisture one. It could also be just a minor retcon of Oda´s, just like the black coloring of Haki, since if we go by visual alone that means no one at marineford, including the admirals and white beard, was capable of Hardening, which I find it unlikely

Talking about them, I do wonder if that techinique that WB used that made the whole of Marine Ford and the sea surronding it into some sort of distorted ground was awakening...Considering that it looks like it is taxing (Both doffy and kata waited a while to use them), and that WB was dying, it makes sense for him to only use it once

Agree with Enel

The thing I said about tha CP9 is not that they were awakened per se, but that the Life Control ability of theirs could emulate to a degree the awakening effects for Zoans

 

[Athanor]

I honestly believe Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Culverin is impossible without awakening;
His arm is bouncing on mid-air! Shouldn't that count as modifying the environment?

This has nothing to do with awakening, its just awesome control of his arment haki. To bounce his armes into other directios mid-air, he just hardened his whole arm with one weaker point where it should bounce to. Its just physics, that it bounces where the lowest resistance is and that is where his arment haki is at the lowest level.

This level of control over his arment haki, was also mentioned by joker, when he kicked gear4 luffy, and stated that its hard but still rubbery. Luffy just hardened there his skin, but his inner was unexpected soft, that he could reduce damage to nearly zero and dont have a real recoil by absorbing the attack.

 

[hokageji]

His arm is bouncing on mid-air! Shouldn't that count as modifying the environment?

Rubber bounces off rubber, it doesn't have to be air...

 

[Froppy]

Very interesting discussion I find kkck's arguments really appealing, but I still think Crocodile is a likely candidate. He has also been the first to mention the concept in the series, and his selling point has always been his amazing control of his powers, so I would not be surprised if that were the case. It also opens another interesting question: whether awakening has different levels or whether all awakened users have the same degree of control over their powers. Enel is also an interesting mention I had not thought about before, and Chopper and Brook indeed have advanced a lot in their control of their powers, so maybe they are also on the path to awakening their abilities. The beast jailers were not thaaat strong, so I think it's entirely possible for weaker people to awaken their powers as well. I hope we get that promised explanation from Vegapunk soon

The most likely candidates for awakenings are admirals, commanders... It doesn't seem like marco has awakening though he does seem like a prime candidate for it. Awakenings for zoan seem dangerous though, going by the ID guys it doesn't seem like they get to keep their intelligence.

I actually believe his unusual control of transformation is the most likely candidate for unstated awakening in the early series. Marco has been the only known Zoan user until now who can control at will which parts of his body he wants to transform. We don't know yet, but I think there are great chances that this ability may be a form of awakening, since it does not conform at all to the usual rules of only three fixed forms for all Zoan users. Artificial Zoans have also been shown to allow the transformation of body parts only, but we don't know if their users can control it or not, or even if they have three basic forms at all or if transforming body parts is all that they can do Chopper is probably the one that has come the closest to Marco in terms of controlling the basic effects of his fruit, but he has done so through technology, and I have a feeling that's probably not the case with Marco.

 

[Kato756]

Very interesting discussion I find kkck's arguments really appealing, but I still think Crocodile is a likely candidate. He has also been the first to mention the concept in the series, and his selling point has always been his amazing control of his powers, so I would not be surprised if that were the case. It also opens another interesting question: whether awakening has different levels or whether all awakened users have the same degree of control over their powers. Enel is also an interesting mention I had not thought about before, and Chopper and Brook indeed have advanced a lot in their control of their powers, so maybe they are also on the path to awakening their abilities. The beast jailers were not thaaat strong, so I think it's entirely possible for weaker people to awaken their powers as well. I hope we get that promised explanation from Vegapunk soon



I actually believe his unusual control of transformation is the most likely candidate for unstated awakening in the early series. Marco has been the only known Zoan user until now who can control at will which parts of his body he wants to transform. We don't know yet, but I think there are great chances that this ability may be a form of awakening, since it does not conform at all to the usual rules of only three fixed forms for all Zoan users. Artificial Zoans have also been shown to allow the transformation of body parts only, but we don't know if their users can control it or not, or even if they have three basic forms at all or if transforming body parts is all that they can do Chopper is probably the one that has come the closest to Marco in terms of controlling the basic effects of his fruit, but he has done so through technology, and I have a feeling that's probably not the case with Marco.

Dind´t Drake use just a dino arm?

 

[kkck]

Very interesting discussion I find kkck's arguments really appealing, but I still think Crocodile is a likely candidate. He has also been the first to mention the concept in the series, and his selling point has always been his amazing control of his powers, so I would not be surprised if that were the case. It also opens another interesting question: whether awakening has different levels or whether all awakened users have the same degree of control over their powers. Enel is also an interesting mention I had not thought about before, and Chopper and Brook indeed have advanced a lot in their control of their powers, so maybe they are also on the path to awakening their abilities. The beast jailers were not thaaat strong, so I think it's entirely possible for weaker people to awaken their powers as well. I hope we get that promised explanation from Vegapunk soon

I actually believe his unusual control of transformation is the most likely candidate for unstated awakening in the early series. Marco has been the only known Zoan user until now who can control at will which parts of his body he wants to transform. We don't know yet, but I think there are great chances that this ability may be a form of awakening, since it does not conform at all to the usual rules of only three fixed forms for all Zoan users. Artificial Zoans have also been shown to allow the transformation of body parts only, but we don't know if their users can control it or not, or even if they have three basic forms at all or if transforming body parts is all that they can do Chopper is probably the one that has come the closest to Marco in terms of controlling the basic effects of his fruit, but he has done so through technology, and I have a feeling that's probably not the case with Marco.

Still, it would be a bit of a plot hole for crocodile to bother with dehydrating stuff if he has an awakening which presumably would turn stuff arbitrarily into sand. If he had an awakening then the whole of ID could haven been turned into a desert... He could have taken away magellan's home advantage with one. One way or the other it is weird that crododile did not create more sand using his ability though.

As for marco, the guy is a zoan and a mythical one at that... I honestly have no idea of what oda has planned for him given his apparent lack of a proper hybrid form like pell's. I think there is a chance that given the apparent risks that a zoan awakening carries (at least going by the ID guys it seems like they can lose their intelligence) it is possible marco chooses to not use it. An awakening as the one we have seen so far would be particularly broken on marco though. Marco cna regenerate but only to an extent. With an awakening as the one we have seen he would have increased strength, endurance and stamina, an ideal boost for his fruit. Still, even if he could do that he probably couldn't risk it at marineford given that he was in command.

 

[Kato756]

Still, it would be a bit of a plot hole for crocodile to bother with dehydrating stuff if he has an awakening which presumably would turn stuff arbitrarily into sand. If he had an awakening then the whole of ID could haven been turned into a desert... He could have taken away magellan's home advantage with one. One way or the other it is weird that crododile did not create more sand using his ability though.

As for marco, the guy is a zoan and a mythical one at that... I honestly have no idea of what oda has planned for him given his apparent lack of a proper hybrid form like pell's. I think there is a chance that given the apparent risks that a zoan awakening carries (at least going by the ID guys it seems like they can lose their intelligence) it is possible marco chooses to not use it. An awakening as the one we have seen so far would be particularly broken on marco though. Marco cna regenerate but only to an extent. With an awakening as the one we have seen he would have increased strength, endurance and stamina, an ideal boost for his fruit. Still, even if he could do that he probably couldn't risk it at marineford given that he was in command.

I´d argue that since what we have seen sugests that awakenig is a costly techinique in terms of stamina, being a last resort used to finish off enemies, that Crocodile was in the first situation only using it VERY cautiosly (And if you consider that he defeated Luffy 2 times and was raging that a mere rookie could take him out like that, I find in his character to not use awakening because of Pride), like how post time skip luffy just turns Gear 2 for the duration of his attack instead of always having it on.
On Impel Down, he was being held capitive for a long time, so his stamina could be down.

I am just saying that with the whole retcon of armament haki, Croco is the easiest to give awakenig pre-timeskip.
I can´t help but think that Size Increase could also factor in the Zoan Type awakening.
Considering both the demon guards and Monster Point Chopper, another possible awakening (or close to), it could be that the Zoan Awakening is similar to the Ultra Saiyan Transformation from DBZ: Great Raw Power, but at the cost of moblity.

Considering the fighting style of Marco seemed to be pretty nimble, maybe his awakening form does not help him much?

 

[kkck]

I´d argue that since what we have seen sugests that awakenig is a costly techinique in terms of stamina, being a last resort used to finish off enemies, that Crocodile was in the first situation only using it VERY cautiosly (And if you consider that he defeated Luffy 2 times and was raging that a mere rookie could take him out like that, I find in his character to not use awakening because of Pride), like how post time skip luffy just turns Gear 2 for the duration of his attack instead of always having it on.
On Impel Down, he was being held capitive for a long time, so his stamina could be down.

I am just saying that with the whole retcon of armament haki, Croco is the easiest to give awakenig pre-timeskip.
I can´t help but think that Size Increase could also factor in the Zoan Type awakening.
Considering both the demon guards and Monster Point Chopper, another possible awakening (or close to), it could be that the Zoan Awakening is similar to the Ultra Saiyan Transformation from DBZ: Great Raw Power, but at the cost of moblity.

Considering the fighting style of Marco seemed to be pretty nimble, maybe his awakening form does not help him much?

The manga has not yet evidenced an awakening being all that draining stamina wise. The 4 guys at ID actually gained stamina from it. And doflamingo and katakuri have so far used it rather casually. It is possible that some awakenings have high stamina requirements however we don't have evidence that this would be the case for crocodile. Nor do we even have evidence that crocodile has an awakening.

Monster point chopper can't be an awakening, the thing is caused by the rumble balls... Even if there is a connection due to the rumble balls affecting how the fruit works, it is still a huge stretch to consider chopper an awakened zoan.