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Discussion Ancient Kingdom Discussion Thread

Dodgy Dave

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Hey, just wanted to post a quick theory about relationship between the Ds and the Ancient Kingdom.

The D's were the most powerful family in the Ancient Kingdom. The Ancient Kingdom was technologically more advanced than the other nations but couldn't counter the overwhelming numbers of the other nations without destroying the world.

The D's realising that they were facing defeat found a way to reincarnate themselves but only in spirit and not in mind. For this reason they left the poneglyphs with clues to the history and instructions on how to control the most powerful weapons.

Luffy is the reincarnation of Gol D Roger.
"I'm not gonna die, partner" - Rogers last words to Rayleigh.
"He said the same words the captain said" - Shanks to Rayleigh about Luffys words.

When I heard the first quote, initially I though Roger was talking about his legacy. This might still be the case but by this point Roger had read the poneglyphs and if my theory is correct then Roger knew he'd be reborn to finish what he'd started. Luffy then states the same words to Shanks that Roger had said, perhaps unknowing quoting himself.

The above may also be why they smile just before they die, unconsciously knowing that they'll be back.

Secondary theory:
Blackbeard was a D [or 2 or 3 (chimera theory)] who betrayed the Ancient Kingdom for his/their own ends. The Ds were unaware of this before allowing "Blackbeard" to be reincarnated.

All conjecture but then it is just a theory :)
 
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Notice me Escanor senpai

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Re: The Ancient Kingdom

Hey, just wanted to post a quick theory about relationship between the Ds and the Ancient Kingdom.

The D's were the most powerful family in the Ancient Kingdom. The Ancient Kingdom was technologically more advanced than the other nations but couldn't counter the overwhelming numbers of the other nations without destroying the world.

The D's realising that they were facing defeat found a way to reincarnate themselves but only in spirit and not in mind. For this reason they left the poneglyphs with clues to the history and instructions on how to control the most powerful weapons.

Luffy is the reincarnation of Gol D Roger.
"I'm not gonna die, partner" - Rogers last words to Rayleigh.
"He said the same words the captain said" - Shanks to Rayleigh about Luffys words.

When I heard the first quote, initially I though Roger was talking about his legacy. This might still be the case but by this point Roger had read the poneglyphs and if my theory is correct then Roger knew he'd be reborn to finish what he'd started. Luffy then states the same words to Shanks that Roger had said, perhaps unknowing quoting himself.

The above may also be why they smile just before they die, unconsciously knowing that they'll be back.

Secondary theory:
Blackbeard was a D [or 2 or 3 (chimera theory)] who betrayed the Ancient Kingdom for his/their own ends. The Ds were unaware of this before allowing "Blackbeard" to be reincarnated.

All conjecture but then it is just a theory :)
It seems to me that the D are connected to the Ancient Kingdom, if we take into account Corazon's words about them living somewhere far. No one knows where the Ancient Kingdom is,which makes me think that if the Ds lived somewhere before it would be already known. Also them being described as God's natural enemy, and there's the fact that the 20 kingdoms were enemies of the Ancient kingdom... you can connect the dots.
That said so far there was no mention or proof of reincarnation in OP. The closest thing we have is the will, that is not only reserved to the Ds.I think that what Roger meant was that his will is passed on after he dies, because there was a gap in time between Roger's death, and Luffy's birth. Also why Luffy and not his own son? I think that Luffy saying those words to Shanks was just to show us of how similar Luffy is to Roger, unconsciously they both had the same dream, although it's possible that their reasons were different. It definitely shows that Luffy inherited Roger's will, he was well known by then as the PK, he didn't need to know him personally to sympathize with him on that subject. There are other pirates who also share that dream, starting from Crocodile. So I really think Luffy simply inherited Roger's will, which in a way makes him alive, as his legacy is passed on generation after generation.
 
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Kracken

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Re: The Ancient Kingdom

What if the Ancient Kingdom was the ocean? I don't mean the people were fishmen or anything but what if their main home was an island (Raftel maybe) but their whole domain was the sea? It could explain why 20 kingdoms had to gang up on 1 if it were a land vs. sea scenario and why both the ancient weapons revealed so far are sea based (one's a ship and the other's a mermaid who can control seakings). The ship makes sense for a land kingdom but controlling seakings? Why would they have that? If my other theory about the Grandline being artificially created is right then it could be it was created to keep control of the ocean because Marijois (or however you spell it) is built right in the middle of the ocean. If it wasn't there that would be a huge open space. I think it might of been like in the Pirates of the Caribbean where the pirate lords came together and bound Tia Dalma so they could rule the sea. I read a theory the other day that said D. could stand for Davey Jones, who's the devil for sailors. I'm not 100% convinced by it but it's an interesting thought. .
 
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Notice me Escanor senpai

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The ancient Kingdom

[mod=ladylola]Here you can post all your theories about the Ancient Kingdom, but also the Ancient weapons, and things you think are related to them, like the Will of D.[/mod]
 
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Hannibal Psyche

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The Ancient Kingdom and the unconnected dots...

Intro​


There are things I've come to believe which I'll try to elaborate on in detail. So far I've come to believe that the following are related:
  1. Ancient Kingdom
  2. Poneglyphs
  3. Ancient Weapons
  4. The D. Initial
  5. Voice of All Things
  6. Relationship between the D. clan and the Fishmen
Now, the question is how exactly are all these related? Starting with...

Ancient Kingdom​

An Oharan Scholar finds that it's clearly not a coincidence or quite convenient that the timing of the WG's existence is the exact time the Ancient Kingdom was obliterated.

The Ancient Kingdom was wiped out by 20 kingdoms and it's this 20 kingdoms that created what's now known as the World Government. These 20 kings are also known as the Tenryuubito or Celestial Dragons as confirmed by Pappug after Ohara is destroyed.

This Kingdom was known to be powerful, they seemingly possessed knowledge and technology that transcended that of the other nations.
  • The 20 Kingdoms destroyed them and erased any trace of their existence because they found this Ancient Kingdom to be a threat and not just because of their Ancient Weapons, but the ideals they possessed that most likely opposed everything the WG's objective is and they were found to be a threat to their agenda.

Going by Professor Clover's narration, it seems they were a peaceful people and wouldn't it be weird that a Kingdom that possessed Ancient Weapons that could destroy the world were defeated? Based on that, I feel the Ancient Weapons were created during the Void Century (bar Poseidon).

What is rather fascinating is even after the professor had speculated the WG were evil, they only shot him when he was about to name the Ancient Kingdom? Wouldn't it have made more sense to shoot him whilst at least speculating? So, now we know the name of the Ancient Kingdom is a hugely kept secret.
Poneglyphs​

We know from Dr. Clover that the Poneglyphs came into existence only during the Void Century.

These Poneglyphs are indestructible and this implies this Ancient Kingdom were far ahead in technology than any other Kingdom at the time and even now, the WG attempted to destroy them by blowing it up and still failed.

This means anything documented on the Poneglyph must have come exclusively within the Void Century. We know the main job of the Poneglyph is to relay out the truth of the Void Century to those who can read it.

Ancient Weapons​

Ancient Weapons are one of the things found from the Poneglyphs which is why not many people know about them. Anything from within the Void Century is written on Poneglyphs which essentially means anything written on it must have come from that era.
More Proof Spoiler

King Nefertari asks Crocodile where he's heard it from which implies it's not something that's found in any other historical documents or he wouldn't be asking how he heard about it, he'd just have known it's one of the historical documents out there. Implies knowledge about it is only found in the Poneglyphs which implies it was created within the Void Century. Also, it's something that very few people have heard, and Crocodile is one of those few people.

Again, Crocodile has heard, not read about it. Implies it's not something that can be found in any document and this is why he has Robin with him. It also implies it's something he's only heard in rumours that are not commonly heard.

The king denies even having heard about it which further supports that it's not something that's in any historical document and Crocodile even confirms that he most likely heard it from rumours as he implies it's existence and description are dubious which means there's no substantial evidence for it's existence.

He even explicitly says "he knows now" now being the keyword which implies he was previously uncertain but now certain of it's existence thanks to the King and Robin's defensive behaviour and knowledge of the past. So even he knew nothing about it, he was taking a gamble on the authenticity of rumours.

So it really isn't something that's popularly known among people or even in rumours, it's something that's only known to those who can read the Poneglyph, have affiliations with protecting the Poneglyphs or are as discerning as Crocodile to things that are facetious. Only the history of the Void Century is discarded and only the Poneglyphs record this history which implies the Ancient Weapons that were created came from within this era and not any other.

The D Initial​

Just to break things down and to be logical about things, the D. initial is the name of a group of people and it's also usually kept a secret.

One thing to keep in mind is that D. is nothing but an initial and an initial is the first letter of a name:
  • Doflamingo is from the Donquixote family and if his last name were an initial, it'd be a D.
  • Vivi is from the Nefertiri family, if her last name were an initial, it'd be an N.
With that said, it's only logical that since the D. is an initial or the first letter of a name, the question to ask is that what then is the full name that follows this initial? Read on if interested!
Now, people might say D stands for Demon or Daemon or Destiny, but that's only symbolically; those are not names.

The D. means?

D. initial is not fully known and neither is the full name it holds. The D. is a family, but I believe that to mean much more than being blood related. Law and Luffy are not brothers for example, but their initial connects them somehow which we currently don't know, but I will speculate.

Initials in general shouldn't connect people together, for example someone could be called "Michael J. Wallace" and someone else may be called "Duncan J. Donovan", regardless of sharing initial, they're unrelated.

This means the D. is not literally a family name, but a name for something that connects people regardless of being unrelated by blood; so the name has to be something that people can have in common without being related by blood.

I believe the D initial is the first letter to the Country name of the Ancient Kingdom and that's why the D initial is something that is both a secret and a mystery unbeknownst to general citizens of One Piece. That means those with the D initial are from the same country by origin and that's what connects them together.

Voice of All Things (V.O.A.T)​

So far, there are 2 people who have been known to possess the V.O.A.T and that is Monkey D. Luffy and Gol D. Roger.

We know VOAT gives one the ability to read or listen to the inscriptions made on Poneglyphs.

With that said, I believe it's fair to speculate that the VOAT ability is something shared by all those who bare the D. initial.

Another thing that possibly alludes to this is the fact that Roger was also able to write in the Ancient Language, something only people from the Ancient Kingdom can do. So the ability to write in the Ancient Kingdom may also be something shared by those who bare the D. initial.

Hints that the D initial is Kept a Secret​

The WG only hid the D. in Roger's name because people will associate the D. initial with Roger and become curious about it in general.

The WG try as much as possible to hide the existence of the initial or its significance which is why people never knew Luffy was related to Garp despite his Bounty poster saying "Monkey D.".

Even now, people still haven't seen much significance between Ds despite how much they've impacted history in the last 30 years within OP timelines.

Luffy had been tagged a bounty of 300M and people still didn't know Garp and Luffy were related except those that accompanied Garp to Water 7.
So for 20 years and running, people still don't know that their Hero's name (Garp) has the D. initial.

Sengoku knew Roger's name was "Gol D.", but he called him "Gold" in order to conceal the D. initial. If people realized Gold Roger was a D, people would become more curious of Luffy, Ace and Blackbeard and possibly realize these people are somewhat special and this curiousity brings us back to Ponegylphs which is a taboo in OP; since Portgas D. Rouge is not that significant of a character in terms of no impact to history, they had no reason to hide her name so people wouldn't associate much importance with it.

Why is it that no one besides the Celestial Dragons (the most informed people in the world since they're the ones hiding the Void Century) make up fables about the D's eating people whereas no other people from other kingdoms do this? Based on all this, I find it rather compelling that the D. initial is also indeed kept a secret in as much as it can be kept secret.

Lastly, even the Gorosei themselves say the "D." initial is being publicized a bit too much which implies it's a information they try to contain and keep secret.

Relationship between the D. clan and the Fishmen

Finally, I've come to believe that the D. clan and Fishmen have been allies from even before the Void Century. I believe they worked together, the Fishmen possessed obscene strength while the D. clan possessed knowledge that both could use to the benefit of the other.

One scene that makes points to this being a possiblity is the fact that Tom had the Blue-Prints to Pluon, something related to the Void Century and Ancient Kingdom.

Here, we have the Sea kings refer to the help of "that family" in order to fix Noah, something related to the Ancient Kingdom.

We know for a fact it is related to the Ancient Kingdom because:
  • Joy boy wrote on a Poneglyph or left a message. (Something only possible by those from the Ancient Kingdom)
  • He was involved with some business with the Poseidon of that era.
  • That essentially makes Joyboy a part of the Ancient Kingdom and most likely a D and possibly the family that the Sea kings are referring to.
Just random scribbling, but I think one of the things that made this Ancient Kingdom a threat to the 20 Kingdoms that took them down is partly due to some relationship they shared with the Fishmen. The humans have always hated the Fishmen and seemed to not acknowledge them as beings worth treating as equals. The Fishmen seem heavily associated with the Void Century:
  • Joyboy (most likely a D)
  • Poseidon.
  • Being in possession of Pluton's Blue print.
A promise was even made between Joyboy and Poseidon (and Fishmen), so they seem to share a bond that has them taking the world on. Perhaps Joyboy's promise was to take down the WG or have the world recognize Fishmen as a race worthy of being treated as equals with humans or something along those lines.
 
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Ottoman_Pasha

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Wanted to dug out this one after nearly 7 years because we are most probably going to have big revelations in the upcoming chapters.

Professor Clover's manifesto, is going to prove its importance for the whole story. Rather, the whole Ohara incident seems to hold more keys than ever expected.

My theory:
The alliance of 20 kingdoms which supposedly brought down the Ancient Kingdom was not that powerful. They only delivered the final blow. The Ancient K. was in turmoil because of a giant inner conflict caused or related to Joyboy/Nika and slavery. It was doomed. They lost the control over their far superior technology and the devil fruits they created. And the 20 kingdoms, thanks to the immense manpower they had, delivered the final blow. After their demise, only Imu was able to use the technology or the left weapon(s) and subverted the others to his dictatorship. Imu formed the World Government and gave it a face of unity and justice. He manipulated history and acted as the supreme ruler from the shadows. He couldn't monopolize the power of the devil fruits because he wasn't able to figure out or control the random reappearance of the DF. That's why he assigned Vegapunk to create artificial DFs. Blackbeard though, has learned it. But that's another theory...
I believe that the Ancient Kingdom also had ruled over mankind with brute force. But at some point, a hero (Joyboy/Nika) appeared and freed the opressed. This is an ongoing theme which was repeatedly presented (Fisher Tiger) in the story. Luffy is going to be the last and the most important savior.
 

Fox666

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Going by Professor Clover's narration, it seems they were a peaceful people and wouldn't it be weird that a Kingdom that possessed Ancient Weapons that could destroy the world were defeated?
The Ancient Kingdom did not create the weapons



Pluton was built in Water 7:

 
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kkck

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Maybe water 7 was a part of the ancient kingdom? Like a colony or branch? Or perhaps water 7 was moved from somewhere else. In any case if pluto is a ship then it definitely has some insane technology behind it. Something that would rival or best the ancient kingdom. I suppose it makes sense that all parties involved in the ancient war had very advanced technology?
 

Ottoman_Pasha

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On the contrary, it doesn't make sense if all parties had advanced technology. After winning the war and 8 more centuries to develop the OP world should have reached a much higher technology level in comparison to present under the reign of the winners.

Obviously, the winners drew the curtains on the losers and kept the loot for themselves. This makes a lot of sense and very realistically showcases human nature.

Pluton was built in Water 7 yes, but this doesn't mean that the Ancient Kingdom was not involved. It can also be the trigger which caused the conflict within the AK.

I highly doubt that the later World Government party commissioned or directly built Pluton.
 

Fox666

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Maybe water 7 was a part of the ancient kingdom? Like a colony or branch? Or perhaps water 7 was moved from somewhere else. In any case if pluto is a ship then it definitely has some insane technology behind it. Something that would rival or best the ancient kingdom. I suppose it makes sense that all parties involved in the ancient war had very advanced technology?
Apparently Franky could built Pluton by just looking at the blueprints, so I don't think it necessary had super advanced technology

I'm thinking of it like nuclear power... it didn't required some crazy technology, just figuring the basics
 

Ottoman_Pasha

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Apparently Franky could built Pluton by just looking at the blueprints, so I don't think it necessary had super advanced technology

I'm thinking of it like nuclear power... it didn't required some crazy technology, just figuring the basics
Yes but who else besides either of the main powers would possess the resources or authority to built it? There is no random possibility of a third party to obtain such a power and retain unknown in the course of history.
 

kkck

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Apparently Franky could built Pluton by just looking at the blueprints, so I don't think it necessary had super advanced technology

I'm thinking of it like nuclear power... it didn't required some crazy technology, just figuring the basics
but... franky is basically a super genius. The guy exploded at a shityard or something and made himself into a cyborg with random junk he found. It being super technology is not at odds with franky's capabilities.
 

Ottoman_Pasha

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"The Void Century is, as it is called, is the history of a war between this extremely advanced civilization of the past and a group of 20 kingdoms. The 20 kingdoms won the war and later developed the World Government..." "In order to ensure that the ideals of that ancient kingdom could not be passed down, they erased all traces of it from history"
- Vegapunk 01 Shaka

Him emphasizing "extremely advanced civilization" and the opponent only as "a group of 20 kingdoms" is for me the confirmation that only one side was technologically advanced. I'd conclude that all the ancient weapons (or machines) was made by the ancient kingdom.
 
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