Question Are irregulars really from outside the Tower?

[IamEPP]

I was rereading TOG when I come across this Bam & Rachel dialog.
Rachel - I'm going up the tower.
Rachel - I can get to the outer world If I get to the top of the Tower..
If the place they were at that moment wad not outside the Tower and yet Bam is a irregular, are irregulars really from outside de Tower. Even Urek's dream is to go out the Tower. And what about the 13 Great Warriors ? If they are all from the Tower, why aren't they bound by contracts as the other Tower Born People? Am I missing something about ToG universe?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Supposedly, yes. But even Rachel hasn't actually seen the real sky.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some twist on this - maybe multiple ways to be outside the tower (underneath the tower? in another adjacent tower? pocket dimensions? etc)

 

[kkck]

Going by urek and zahard, I'd say yes. Both of them speak of a vast outside in the story. It's bam and rachel whose origin in this regard is somewhat in question. The impression I have is that bam and rachel did come from the outside BUT it's not quite the same place as where zahard and the others come from. Allegedly there is a whole universe out there so it makes sense that people could come from a nearly unlimited number of places.

 

[TheLastMartian]

What if they came from a tower inside of another tower? Towerception.

 

[Jammin]

While I don't think we can really know for sure. My understanding is the an irregular is anyone who wasn't chosen to climb from the outer tower.

By that definition, it doesn't neccisarly have to be somebody from outside the tower. Just someone who wasn't chosen and "Opened the door for themselves". So I guess my answer is that they can be from outside the tower but not always.

 

[kkck]

While I don't think we can really know for sure. My understanding is the an irregular is anyone who wasn't chosen to climb from the outer tower.

By that definition, it doesn't neccisarly have to be somebody from outside the tower. Just someone who wasn't chosen and "Opened the door for themselves". So I guess my answer is that they can be from outside the tower but not always.

Certain explanations given about what an irregular is would indeed permit such a thing but from the context of the story I find this unlikely at best. Under that logic you could also have a regular come from outside the tower as well. Which is a... weird scenario at best.

 

[Shasha23]

While I don't think we can really know for sure. My understanding is the an irregular is anyone who wasn't chosen to climb from the outer tower.

By that definition, it doesn't neccisarly have to be somebody from outside the tower. Just someone who wasn't chosen and "Opened the door for themselves". So I guess my answer is that they can be from outside the tower but not always.

This is what i have always thought to be the case

 

[Jammin]

Certain explanations given about what an irregular is would indeed permit such a thing but from the context of the story I find this unlikely at best. Under that logic you could also have a regular come from outside the tower as well. Which is a... weird scenario at best.

Not really. That's assuming that the tower can invite people from outside. There isn't really any reason to assume it can do that. As it's powers seem very much localized.

 

[toil]

While I don't think we can really know for sure. My understanding is the an irregular is anyone who wasn't chosen to climb from the outer tower.

By that definition, it doesn't neccisarly have to be somebody from outside the tower. Just someone who wasn't chosen and "Opened the door for themselves". So I guess my answer is that they can be from outside the tower but not always.

That's an interesting possible distinction. We appear to have two classes of irregulars: one class starts out powerful (Urek, great warriors, etc.), and one at least starts out at zero (Baam, Rachel, so far). The powerful ones all come from the outside world with sky, stars, and so on, whereas the "start at zero" ones hail from a dark cave.

It could be as simple as "irregular" being unselected (the way you put it), the "default-powerful" status results from being from the outside, and the distinction between our two "irregular-but-not-outsider" examples is Baam has the outside god, and Rachel doesn't.

 

[TheLastMartian]

That's an interesting possible distinction. We appear to have two classes of irregulars: one class starts out powerful (Urek, great warriors, etc.), and one at least starts out at zero (Baam, Rachel, so far). The powerful ones all come from the outside world with sky, stars, and so on, whereas the "start at zero" ones hail from a dark cave.

It could be as simple as "irregular" being unselected (the way you put it), the "default-powerful" status results from being from the outside, and the distinction between our two "irregular-but-not-outsider" examples is Baam has the outside god, and Rachel doesn't.

Well the great warriors were warriors before entering the tower, Urek was said to be chasing Phantaminum who is a really power person so clearly he has to be strong aswell.

Bam lived in a cave his whole life, not practicing martial arts or anything inside the cave either, just being there, we are not even sure if he eats food (have we ever seen Bam eat? Other than Black March ofc).

Wouldn't say it's two different groups, just people with different experiences prior to entering the tower.

Also Regulars are chosen by Headon, while irregulars "open" the door to the tower themselves. I would imagine someone living in the tower could open the door themselves as well but who knows.

 

[cash2088]

I was rereading TOG when I come across this Bam & Rachel dialog.
Rachel - I'm going up the tower.
Rachel - I can get to the outer world If I get to the top of the Tower..
If the place they were at that moment wad not outside the Tower and yet Bam is a irregular, are irregulars really from outside de Tower. Even Urek's dream is to go out the Tower. And what about the 13 Great Warriors ? If they are all from the Tower, why aren't they bound by contracts as the other Tower Born People? Am I missing something about ToG universe?

I think this is a common misunderstanding, the middle portion of the tower is the one in which you need to be either:

1) Selected by headon. (Regular)

2) open the door yourself. (Irregular)

Once in the middle you cannot leave until you complete it by climbing to the top. What Arlene did was escape the middle portion. All the characters we have encountered are from and originated from within the other portions of the tower.

If my understanding is correct.

Hence why Rachel could hypothetically meet Arlene even though she “escaped.” As Rachel wasn’t selected by headon and theoretically was living in a portion of the tower Arlene settled or visited after her escape.

 

[Wha]

Once in the middle you cannot leave until you complete it by climbing to the top.

Cannot leave the middle? Then how did Karaka, Yuri and so on meet with Bam on the train hunt station, since that should be in the inner tower.
Or did you mean something else?

And if it is inside the tower, what about guides? they can go wherever they want.

 

[cash2088]

Cannot leave the middle? Then how did Karaka, Yuri and so on meet with Bam on the train hunt station, since that should be in the inner tower.
Or did you mean something else?

And if it is inside the tower, what about guides? they can go wherever they want.

All within the middle portion of the tower I assumed.

Granted, I could be totally wrong. This just made sense to me given what we have known.

 

[Ripcord]

Not really. That's assuming that the tower can invite people from outside. There isn't really any reason to assume it can do that. As it's powers seem very much localized.

100% I think Headon opens the door. He may be the spirit of the Tower in corporeal form. Or at least it’s official caretaker. Why else can he go anywhere?

I am sure that he knew Rachel and Bam were coming.


Also, irregulars are poorly understood by those that told us about them. They don’t have our perspective. An irregular is someone who is free from contracts in the Tower and this comes from not being born in the Tower (or maybe going out and back in, but that doesn’t seem right I think dying is needed there).

All of them can use shinsoo freely without a contract. Those that were not born in the Tower but were inside when Zahard became king are now restricted by Zahard’s contract. I bet V refused his immortality so he wouldn’t be bound and he could have killed Zahard, but ultimately he failed. All the other ten heads can’t harm themselves or Zahard (since we know Arlene couldn’t kill herself).

Irregulars who arrived after Zahard made his King contract are not bound by it. Kinda funny, I wonder if Bam is actually free to go up a floor without passing a test. What prevents him from doing so? Surely not a contract, unless it’s something you’re bound to by merely entering the Tower.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2019 ---

All within the middle portion of the tower I assumed.

Granted, I could be totally wrong. This just made sense to me given what we have known.

No, you can go to the Outer Tower, Inner Tower, and Middle Tower of any floor you’ve completed. It’s just that anyone who isn’t a Regular is stuck on the floor they’re on. Wangnan was in the middle area when he was being chased by Lurker. Then he went to the inner tower which is where the tests are. Clearly he could go between these two areas freely.

Also, White seemed to have no problem coming back to the inner Tower from the Outer.