Discussion Baam's absolute limit

[Ripcord]

Bam didn't overpower gado though, didn't fight him at all, red t attacked he dodged and calzon held him, gado said he needed to take care of bam before he master red t powers, thorn or not he knew that killing bam was a possibility still, that not someone getting overwhelmed just surprised tbh, bam was a bit shaken by level 2 initial attack, so he concentrate shinwonryu into the blade only, just winging it with all his powers is not gonna let him win.

thorn 2 ignition is either aoe space bursting or spatial control either way, he hasn't practice it or know what it does yet, he surely didn't use it after fully activating it, thorn 1 seem unstable like it's calibrating to bam strength, imagine thorn 2 which he is less familiar with?

Let's be honest bam doesn't really pay attention to the thorns, red t, blue t or bm, all the training he did was base stuff, now he just gonna activate them all and beat kallavan, with no better grasp of his power up's since the train? Having experience and strength of a 3 thousand years is a joke.

The best thing bam has going for him is, that all his powers up are sentient and can do whatever his instincts tell him or they autopilot to save him.

It’s not that Bam’s powers autopilot for him. From the start, he grasped Reverse Flow Control on his own. What happened with Gado was that he seized control of the powers inside him and mixed them together. That is what the white line meant during the fight with data Zahard and that’s what it means now.

Bam is in control, not the powers. This is unlike Zahard who most likely gave in to the power and the power is in control.

 

[zikhali]

Gado overwhelmed Bam with speed IMO not power that is why he had an advantage over Bam, after the thorn release things were a bit even. My guess is Bam can take out Elphathion at his limit not sure about Kallavan

 

[Ripcord]

Gado overwhelmed Bam with speed IMO not power that is why he had an advantage over Bam, after the thorn release things were a bit even. My guess is Bam can take out Elphathion at his limit not sure about Kallavan

I think what this fight showed is that if a Ranker doesn’t take Bam seriously they can be killed. I don’t think Kallavan will make that mistake again. I also don’t think Bam is ready for Kallavan.

One other thing - I still don’t like Bam going after Kallavan here. It’s true that Kallavan beat up Jinsung but first off Jinsung didn’t die. Second, Jinsung asked for that fight to protect Bam and it was a fair fight (except for the Maschenny part). It’s not that I expect Bam to just be ok with it, but it feels petty to me and so against Bam’s past to do this.

When I was in 6th grade I was goaded into punching someone I shouldn’t have. It felt justified at the time, but later I realized I got all caught up in something that wasn’t me. Bam’s situation here feels similar to me.

For Bam, protecting Jinsung shouldn’t even be on his radar. It’s not to say I don’t feel for Bam and want him to get stronger... bleh I just don’t like it.

<End Rant>

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Baam shouldn't save his hostage'd mentor that he ended up being close to? That's not 'like Baam' - saving those close to him?

 

[zikhali]

Bam will try to save everyone no matter what that is why there will always be hostages in this manhwa, I would like for a change for Bam to grow stronger because he wants to not because of a hostage situation. The Kallavan party on the other hand Bam won't be fighting alone, as we saw in the cage its either Isu and Hatsu will infiltrate the wall and find help for Bam from within.

 

[kkck]

I agree with ripcord here. Overall, there are zero reasons for bam to be out hunting kallavan specifically. Bam's objective is to free jinsung, not to be out hunting some asshole who was merely following orders. Bam hunting kallavan seems like a weird turn for bam which the series hasn't really justified. And kallavan even now is just a fanatic who would blow bam if zahard gave the order. The implication so far was that bam needed to defeat kallavan because he was directly in the way of saving jinsung. But in turn what we see now is bam picking a fight with kallavan for a revenge which as far as bam knows won't do jack shit in bam's effort to save jinsung. Add to that the apparent absurdity of evankhel allowing bam to fight kallavan in spite of bam not having finished his training.

 

[zikhali]

Kallavan knows where Jinsung Ha is, so defeat him and find out where they imprisoned Jinsung that's their goal for hunting Kallavan right now

 

[kkck]

I was under the impression that at least the rankers around bam already knew where jinsung is.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Snek guy says he does, but can he be trusted really?

 

[TheLastMartian]

Bam with no thorns = ranker

Bam with one thorn = low end high ranker

Bam with both thorns = high ranker.

Even with one thorn Bam's power reminds people of Guardians. I assume when he gets the third thorn he will be just under FH level and by the end of the series he will probably kill a guardian.


As AFAIK Urek > FH's except for maybe the King.

 

[shaheer]

Urek in my eyes is a tad weaker than Zahard. But not by much in a fight to death i think its 60 40 chance of zahard winning in a fight to death

 

[kkck]

In my eyes urek and zahard are actually equal. I am not sure if it'd make that much sense to me for urek to be substantially stronger than zahard. It's one thing that he wants to keep away from the story's metaplot because he has better things to do and it is another if for him solving everything is but a small side quest he can't be bothered with.

Also, to me a big issue here is how urek keeps up with the family heads if he lacks shinwonryu. At the moment it seems like shinwonryu is one of bam's most significant upgrades even considering some of the stuff in his revolution... I could buy urek not needing revolution in a "I already know exactly who and what I am hence I don't need your fancy saucepans to train" sort of way but shinwonryu isn't something you just get. And from his reaction at seeing bam it seems fairly clear that urek does not have it. I suppose he could have come with yet a third and unique way to manipulate shinsoo.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It seems like the series has hinted that Urek is stronger than Zahard on the way up the tower (i.e., he grows at a faster pace in strength). I think that's almost all but certain.

However, Zahard has unknown amounts of time to continue to grow on him, admin contract(s) that could have a strengthening effect even if Urek can't be stopped 'legally' by them, and other unknowns (tower weapons, spells) that he might have come across before Urek even showed up. And a vast, powerful army, but of course we're talking one on one.

So, as a function of time I think Urek will surpass Zahard - but has he done so yet? I suppose he's in the gap between the strongest FH, Arie, and Zahard.

THOUGH, if he had barely edged out Arie by the time he got to F100 and the former had thousands of years head start as a fellow irregular, Urek's growth must be massive. We know he came in strong, but to be stronger than the strongest FH in less than 50 years is something.

You'd think that growth rate would have blown far past Zahard by now - if it remained constant. Even compared to Zahard's theoretical growth rate.

Unless they kind of.... level off at some point? There's no theoretical ceiling but they can't continue growing at exponential rates forever can they? Perhaps it is more logistic than exponential:

Also, how large a gap between Zahard and Arie must exist? Urek had closed the gap to the later very early on. I don't know why, but I don't expect Zahard and his next strongest companion to have that big of a difference, but maybe that's just the way it is.

 

[TheLastMartian]

It seems like the series has hinted that Urek is stronger than Zahard on the way up the tower (i.e., he grows at a faster pace in strength). I think that's almost all but certain.

I always took it to mean that Urek came into the tower stronger than the FH's.

It's said he was chasing Phanta so he clearly was strong before going in. Maybe he didn't really grow at all and was always the same power level.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I always took it to mean that Urek came into the tower stronger than the FH's.

It's said he was chasing Phanta so he clearly was strong before going in. Maybe he didn't really grow at all and was always the same power level.

Perhaps, but it seems he had growth from the data floor to current, no?

 

[Echizen_Akira]

I always took it to mean that Urek came into the tower stronger than the FH's.

It's said he was chasing Phanta so he clearly was strong before going in. Maybe he didn't really grow at all and was always the same power level.

But shinsoo doesn't exist outside the tower so there has to be a difference, presumably a big one.

Perhaps, but it seems he had growth from the data floor to current, no?

Wasn't Urek so powerful his data was unstable and that's why his sworn enemy self was incomplete?

 

[TheLastMartian]

In my eyes urek and zahard are actually equal. I am not sure if it'd make that much sense to me for urek to be substantially stronger than zahard. It's one thing that he wants to keep away from the story's metaplot because he has better things to do and it is another if for him solving everything is but a small side quest he can't be bothered with.

Also, to me a big issue here is how urek keeps up with the family heads if he lacks shinwonryu. At the moment it seems like shinwonryu is one of bam's most significant upgrades even considering some of the stuff in his revolution... I could buy urek not needing revolution in a "I already know exactly who and what I am hence I don't need your fancy saucepans to train" sort of way but shinwonryu isn't something you just get. And from his reaction at seeing bam it seems fairly clear that urek does not have it. I suppose he could have come with yet a third and unique way to manipulate shinsoo.

Maybe his resistance is so strong that black hole spheres don't really hurt him and his physical ability is above them using shinwonryu for the physical boost.

But shinsoo doesn't exist outside the tower so there has to be a difference, presumably a big one.



Wasn't Urek so powerful his data was unstable and that's why his sworn enemy self was incomplete?

We saw him use one shinso attack in the entire series (against Bam) and it was weaker than his normal punch (against Hell Joe) so I don't think shinso is his strong point.

Sure he can do that warp thingy but i doubt it makes him stronger in a fight against someone who wouldn't die if he did it wrong.

 

[kkck]

Maybe his resistance is so strong that black hole spheres don't really hurt him and his physical ability is above them using shinwonryu for the physical boost.

That kinda just means urek is simply invulnerable. No middle ground or anything. It sounds extreme even by urek standards.

 

[Echizen_Akira]

He used shinsoo against the rankers outside zygena, and he finished off hell joe with a shinsoo blast. And it's honestly debatable that he was unable and therefore wasn't using shinsoo against hell joe. AFAIK it's an assumption, not a fact, because he was unable to fly. But even if he didn't use shinsoo during that fight, there's a big difference between Hell Joe and Arie Hon. As well as regular shinsoo and shinwonryu. And while it's only blog cannon, I assume he used shinsoo when compressing Baek's forest.

You could be right, I just find it highly unlikely he surpasses Arie with physical might alone.

 

[kkck]

I know the data we saw of urek at the hidden floor was compromised but even then to me it does not look like urek was as strong as a family head back them. And it is unlikely that he didn't grow substantially as he climbed and mastered shinsoo. Urek is without a shred of a doubt an insanely powerful shinsoo user, the lore even makes the point that he can perform in any position splendidly.

One thing I do find interesting about urek is that whenever he appears no one has referred to him as being divine or having divine power. In turn when data zahard met his older self he specifically mentions the divinity older zahard had about him. Maybe urek simply doesn't present himself as a divine being or maybe there is something else going on here....