Discussion Bam is not safe in Administrator tests

[toil]

That being said, if I'm baam I'm going the irregular way... climb it via Admins and deal with whatever they trow. At this point in the journey Baam is stronger than Zahard.. why not?

I wouldn't put it past SIU to throw us a curveball here, though: part of the hidden floor arc was that the "obvious progression" was just a distraction/"deflection" meant to keep visitors to the hidden floor busy doing pointless activity; to get to "the real quest" you had to do something different.

I could see that foreshadowing "climbing the tower" being some kind of misleading trap, itself, but any guesses what you'd do to go down "the real quest" would only be wild speculation right now...although I think they'd probably involve the middle or outer towers.

Theoretically Zahard should have no reason to fear baam as a fraction of his power can trash him (as someone brought up on the thread), but his fear of baam makes sense when we see it with the same logic of Yu Han Sung speech to Evankell (he can never be immortal, so he doesn't fears death. Immortal rankers lives in fear of losing said immortality). Zahard is scared witless of the probability of losing his kingdom, why gamble and take chances on prophecies.

That said, one other thing that strikes me as odd is that other than Baam, I think there's only Enne for our "children of two great warriors/family heads", right? With one parent being that rebel Gustang, etc., although we don't know how long he's been rebelling.

Makes me wonder a bit if SIU's pursuing a vaguely-Cronus inspired storyline (at least thematically, and even then only vaguely). Doesn't have to be but strikes me as interesting that Garam makes it sound like Enne's parentage was seen as a super-big deal at the time, but then Baam's is presented as a "big deal" only in the informational sense.

 

[kkck]

I wouldn't put it past SIU to throw us a curveball here, though: part of the hidden floor arc was that the "obvious progression" was just a distraction/"deflection" meant to keep visitors to the hidden floor busy doing pointless activity; to get to "the real quest" you had to do something different.

I could see that foreshadowing "climbing the tower" being some kind of misleading trap, itself, but any guesses what you'd do to go down "the real quest" would only be wild speculation right now...although I think they'd probably involve the middle or outer towers.



That said, one other thing that strikes me as odd is that other than Baam, I think there's only Enne for our "children of two great warriors/family heads", right? With one parent being that rebel Gustang, etc., although we don't know how long he's been rebelling.

Makes me wonder a bit if SIU's pursuing a vaguely-Cronus inspired storyline (at least thematically, and even then only vaguely). Doesn't have to be but strikes me as interesting that Garam makes it sound like Enne's parentage was seen as a super-big deal at the time, but then Baam's is presented as a "big deal" only in the informational sense.

One way or the other the endgame has to be climbing the tower. And as far as we know there are basically two ways to do that, either through the conventional test taking or how the family heads did it by taking tests directly from the administrator. I used to think bam would eventually resort exclusively to taking tests from the administrator so as to remain kinda off the grid when it comes to climbing and avoid zahard's rulers and test administrators. But it wouldn't be too strange if there are additional benefits to taking this off the grid approach to test climbing. Maybe aditional perks when it comes to shinsoo contracts for bam's allies? We know contracts grant a fixed amount of shinsoo a regular can use, maybe by going off the grid bam's allies will be granted more and be able to develop beyond what regulars at their floors normally theoretically could.

There are other children from family heads other than enne. Yuri and han had children and iirc the lore suggest they have a feud of sorts over who is the ha family's true heir.

 

[TheMoa]

I wouldn't put it past SIU to throw us a curveball here, though: part of the hidden floor arc was that the "obvious progression" was just a distraction/"deflection" meant to keep visitors to the hidden floor busy doing pointless activity; to get to "the real quest" you had to do something different.

I could see that foreshadowing "climbing the tower" being some kind of misleading trap, itself, but any guesses what you'd do to go down "the real quest" would only be wild speculation right now...although I think they'd probably involve the middle or outer towers.



That said, one other thing that strikes me as odd is that other than Baam, I think there's only Enne for our "children of two great warriors/family heads", right? With one parent being that rebel Gustang, etc., although we don't know how long he's been rebelling.

Makes me wonder a bit if SIU's pursuing a vaguely-Cronus inspired storyline (at least thematically, and even then only vaguely). Doesn't have to be but strikes me as interesting that Garam makes it sound like Enne's parentage was seen as a super-big deal at the time, but then Baam's is presented as a "big deal" only in the informational sense.

the Ha family have the twins too (children of Ari Han and Ha Yurin).
Baam heritage doen't go around as a big deal cuz (almost) nobody knows about V and Arlen, they being original FHs too.

 

[toil]

One way or the other the endgame has to be climbing the tower. And as far as we know there are basically two ways to do that, either through the conventional test taking or how the family heads did it by taking tests directly from the administrator. I used to think bam would eventually resort exclusively to taking tests from the administrator so as to remain kinda off the grid when it comes to climbing and avoid zahard's rulers and test administrators. But it wouldn't be too strange if there are additional benefits to taking this off the grid approach to test climbing. Maybe aditional perks when it comes to shinsoo contracts for bam's allies? We know contracts grant a fixed amount of shinsoo a regular can use, maybe by going off the grid bam's allies will be granted more and be able to develop beyond what regulars at their floors normally theoretically could.

I agree they aren't going to just quit climbing, but just switching from regular to admin tests feels underwhelming. Not a guarantee there's a curveball, but I'd still hope there'd be more of a twist.

One such twist could be that there's more going on in the outer tower than it seems up until now, and that part of the point of the inner tower is to lure all the strong-and-talented away where the interesting things really are. We arguably maybe already have hints of that—Kallavan's crystal, wherever Rak came from—but perhaps the truth is the outer tower is just loaded with powerful relics, forbidden spells, and other useful things?

Alternatively, perhaps Baam not only needs to start taking admin tests, but with more "malicious compliance". Back in the beginning of S2, Mule Love mentioned that a previous slayer candidate—probably Karaka?—had made a point of passing the tests in mocking, subversive ways...and perhaps that's not just FUG being FUG but FUG knowing something secret about the tower (and it just...not working...because the other candidates weren't irregulars?).

Or maybe it makes no difference for Baam, but benefits accrue to any regulars who take the admin tests with him?

Or any other twist layered on top of the switch to admin tests, instead of just "it's admin tests from now on".

There are other children from family heads other than enne. Yuri and han had children and iirc the lore suggest they have a feud of sorts over who is the ha family's true heir.

D'oh, scratch this line of thought, then.

 

[kkck]

I agree they aren't going to just quit climbing, but just switching from regular to admin tests feels underwhelming. Not a guarantee there's a curveball, but I'd still hope there'd be more of a twist.

One such twist could be that there's more going on in the outer tower than it seems up until now, and that part of the point of the inner tower is to lure all the strong-and-talented away where the interesting things really are. We arguably maybe already have hints of that—Kallavan's crystal, wherever Rak came from—but perhaps the truth is the outer tower is just loaded with powerful relics, forbidden spells, and other useful things?

Alternatively, perhaps Baam not only needs to start taking admin tests, but with more "malicious compliance". Back in the beginning of S2, Mule Love mentioned that a previous slayer candidate—probably Karaka?—had made a point of passing the tests in mocking, subversive ways...and perhaps that's not just FUG being FUG but FUG knowing something secret about the tower (and it just...not working...because the other candidates weren't irregulars?).

Or maybe it makes no difference for Baam, but benefits accrue to any regulars who take the admin tests with him?

Or any other twist layered on top of the switch to admin tests, instead of just "it's admin tests from now on".



D'oh, scratch this line of thought, then.

TBH when it comes to bam I don't think it matters too much how he climbs the tower. He already has permission to use shinsoo unrestricted so he doesn't even need to climb to become as strong as he wants.

The tower's history is long and the civilizations within it probably uncountable... So surely there is a lot out there. I am just not sure of how any of it would pertain to the point you were making. Bam could probably spending entire lifetimes just exploring sections of a floor. And even then, climbing the tower would only give bam more freedom to roam around as far as we know. And bam's goal, whatever he may chose to do, is at the tower's top.

Bam could do the malicious compliance thing... but I am not sure it would net him anything in regards to his endgame on what he gets from climbing.

 

[Brian Taboada]

Do you actually have to climb the tower to get to the next floor? I mean this is something we were all led to believe but perhaps there are ways to advance, such as spatial distortion, to higher up floors without actually taking the tests. We know Zahard and friends took the admin tests. But maybe that is only because they lacked the tools to advance, such as a ship with a warp drive. We also know some residents came from higher floors. For example, Baam was born on the 42 floor. Maybe climbing the tower and admin tests will be come secondary to the conflict and therefore bypassed by Baam and friends as it is actually not necessary to advance.

 

[toil]

The tower's history is long and the civilizations within it probably uncountable... So surely there is a lot out there. I am just not sure of how any of it would pertain to the point you were making. Bam could probably spending entire lifetimes just exploring sections of a floor. And even then, climbing the tower would only give bam more freedom to roam around as far as we know. And bam's goal, whatever he may chose to do, is at the tower's top.

Bam could do the malicious compliance thing... but I am not sure it would net him anything in regards to his endgame on what he gets from climbing.

It's only pertinent if SIU introduces a lot of new lore as a way of "going beyond climbing", which he hasn't done yet.

The malicious compliance would only buy him something if we get some new lore or revelation. I thought of it because something about previous FUG slayers taking tests in mocking, subversive ways seemed to "rhyme" a bit with going to the hidden floor and filling up the "evil meter", but it's just speculation.

That said, the outer tower is mysterious to me at a lot of levels. I think SIU's model is that the floor ruler really only controls the "inner tower" part of their floor, and I'm not sure how much attention the administrators pay to the outer parts of their floors, either. This isn't the same as "residents of the outer tower may not know about Zahard", I'm saying "rulers/administrators may not pay attention/care/have influence over the outer parts of their floors".

This mostly gets weird for me in that if "normal people"—e.g. those never chosen to be regulars—are using shinsoo out in the outer tower, then they should need to contract with the floor administrator...but in S1, when contracting is presented it's presented as-if they're expecting most-or-all of the regulars to be hearing about it for the first time.

When we see Ho's flashbacks he's entertaining his fellow villagers with simple shinsoo parlor tricks...was he contracted to use shinsoo? Wasn't he from the outer tower? Maybe it's nothing.

Do you actually have to climb the tower to get to the next floor? I mean this is something we were all led to believe but perhaps there are ways to advance, such as spatial distortion, to higher up floors without actually taking the tests. We know Zahard and friends took the admin tests. But maybe that is only because they lacked the tools to advance, such as a ship with a warp drive. We also know some residents came from higher floors. For example, Baam was born on the 42 floor. Maybe climbing the tower and admin tests will be come secondary to the conflict and therefore bypassed by Baam and friends as it is actually not necessary to advance.

FWIW the 2nd thorn has a spatial abilities and tried to warp Baam out of the hidden floor. It also reminds me of something else on this topic: we see Karaka keeping his heart over in what appears to be more of a "pocket universe" (instead of, like, a secret hideaway you can just...go to...if you know where it is); on the hidden floor the big players (data Zahard and the big breeders) have their main bodies on the doubly-hidden floor and usually only send their projections down into the primary hidden floor.

It's possible Baam can just "travel freely" between being an irregular and having the 2nd thorn/spatial manipulation, but even if not I do think some twist is inbound about where Zahard actually is (all or most of the time).

Beta's situation seems interesting here too in that the rules on "who can be in the regulars area on each floor" seem...relaxed. I get that he mostly hides out in the lighthouse—seems miserable—but that's some pretty weak security (could you smuggle a ranker in the same way? Something has to happen with that Phonsekal Drak guy still hiding out in the ilghthouse!).

 

[kkck]

It's only pertinent if SIU introduces a lot of new lore as a way of "going beyond climbing", which he hasn't done yet.

The malicious compliance would only buy him something if we get some new lore or revelation. I thought of it because something about previous FUG slayers taking tests in mocking, subversive ways seemed to "rhyme" a bit with going to the hidden floor and filling up the "evil meter", but it's just speculation.

That said, the outer tower is mysterious to me at a lot of levels. I think SIU's model is that the floor ruler really only controls the "inner tower" part of their floor, and I'm not sure how much attention the administrators pay to the outer parts of their floors, either. This isn't the same as "residents of the outer tower may not know about Zahard", I'm saying "rulers/administrators may not pay attention/care/have influence over the outer parts of their floors".

This mostly gets weird for me in that if "normal people"—e.g. those never chosen to be regulars—are using shinsoo out in the outer tower, then they should need to contract with the floor administrator...but in S1, when contracting is presented it's presented as-if they're expecting most-or-all of the regulars to be hearing about it for the first time.

When we see Ho's flashbacks he's entertaining his fellow villagers with simple shinsoo parlor tricks...was he contracted to use shinsoo? Wasn't he from the outer tower? Maybe it's nothing.



FWIW the 2nd thorn has a spatial abilities and tried to warp Baam out of the hidden floor. It also reminds me of something else on this topic: we see Karaka keeping his heart over in what appears to be more of a "pocket universe" (instead of, like, a secret hideaway you can just...go to...if you know where it is); on the hidden floor the big players (data Zahard and the big breeders) have their main bodies on the doubly-hidden floor and usually only send their projections down into the primary hidden floor.

It's possible Baam can just "travel freely" between being an irregular and having the 2nd thorn/spatial manipulation, but even if not I do think some twist is inbound about where Zahard actually is (all or most of the time).

Beta's situation seems interesting here too in that the rules on "who can be in the regulars area on each floor" seem...relaxed. I get that he mostly hides out in the lighthouse—seems miserable—but that's some pretty weak security (could you smuggle a ranker in the same way? Something has to happen with that Phonsekal Drak guy still hiding out in the ilghthouse!).

IIRC SIU explained that ho back then could "use" shinsoo because the item he ho had had permission for it. However ho couldn't use shinsoo without the object due to lacking a contract. And eventually of course because ho lacked the talent for it. To be honest the whole thing with outer and inner tower confuses me in general. I have never had a sense of how that actually works in spite of reading about it.

 

[toil]

IIRC SIU explained that ho back then could "use" shinsoo because the item he ho had had permission for it. However ho couldn't use shinsoo without the object due to lacking a contract. And eventually of course because ho lacked the talent for it. To be honest the whole thing with outer and inner tower confuses me in general. I have never had a sense of how that actually works in spite of reading about it.

Ah, I remembered there being a blond-looking female regular with a magic wand item like that, but didn't remember Ho having a similar item. If he also had one another "mystery" solved.

The outer tower I wonder how much thought SIU put into it when he got started, other than as a generic "escape hatch" to allow for there to be things going on in the tower without catching the attention of Zahard and his team.

 

[Ripcord]

Do you actually have to climb the tower to get to the next floor? I mean this is something we were all led to believe but perhaps there are ways to advance, such as spatial distortion, to higher up floors without actually taking the tests. We know Zahard and friends took the admin tests. But maybe that is only because they lacked the tools to advance, such as a ship with a warp drive. We also know some residents came from higher floors. For example, Baam was born on the 42 floor. Maybe climbing the tower and admin tests will be come secondary to the conflict and therefore bypassed by Baam and friends as it is actually not necessary to advance.

Man this whole thread is LIT

I’m so glad to see such lively ToG discussion in here.

I’m pretty sure you need permission from an administrator before they let you go up a floor. I’m not sure if F50 requires you to pass F49’s test to come up or if it’s F49 requires you to pass the test on F49 in order to leave... Since Headon sent Bam up from F1 I am guessing a Regular needs permission to leave a floor to go up.

So in principle Bam could just ask for permission and get it, but these administrators seem to like to know if someone is worthy.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2019 ---

IIRC SIU explained that ho back then could "use" shinsoo because the item he ho had had permission for it. However ho couldn't use shinsoo without the object due to lacking a contract. And eventually of course because ho lacked the talent for it. To be honest the whole thing with outer and inner tower confuses me in general. I have never had a sense of how that actually works in spite of reading about it.

As I understand it, Tower residents live on the Outer area but some can get permission to enter the Middle area. You can’t go up or down in the Outer area, it is completely isolated from all other floors (unless you’re Headon and selecting Regulars.... though he probably moves through the middle area and then goes into the outer area).

The middle area is where residents, Regulars, and Rankers can mingle. Those with permission can go up the Tower in the middle area and it seems anyone can go down.

The inner area is for Regulars only (supposedly). Regulars can go up only with permission. As far as we know, you can only go up in this area.

 

[toil]

The inner area is for Regulars only (supposedly). Regulars can go up only with permission. As far as we know, you can only go up in this area.

AIUI this isn't literally true the way you've written it (unless you go "a ranker is a regular, but also a ranker"). I think the issue for me is that right now there are clearly at least these four "zones" within the tower (listed inner-most to outer-most):

1. "Regular Area": open to regulars; rankers either can't go in or can go in but can't interfere with regulars
2. "Neutral Zone": just outside the "regular area", rankers can do their thing in it (where Yuri & Karaka fought, and where battle @ last station happens)
3. "Labyrinth Zone": the part of the "middle tower" full of twisting passages, stairs going up and down, and so on
4. "Outer Tower": the outer tower as we understand it, vast and largely unexplored/unknown

...and although the "Regular Area" is clearly part of the inner tower and the "Labyrinth Zone" is clearly part of the middle tower, what's going on with the "Neutral Zone" isn't 100% clear to me: is it part of the inner tower? does the "middle tower" start once you're in the "neutral area"?

From what we've seen so far, the "neutral area" comes super-close to the "regular area"—which makes it weird to think of it as being part of the middle tower—but it's not spelled out too clearly one way or the other to my knowledge.

 

[Xeroxed]

I wouldn't put it past SIU to throw us a curveball here, though: part of the hidden floor arc was that the "obvious progression" was just a distraction/"deflection" meant to keep visitors to the hidden floor busy doing pointless activity; to get to "the real quest" you had to do something different.

I could see that foreshadowing "climbing the tower" being some kind of misleading trap, itself, but any guesses what you'd do to go down "the real quest" would only be wild speculation right now...although I think they'd probably involve the middle or outer towers.

Remember the early chapters the tower was pretty much described as a "Wish Engine" that could fulfill your dreams as long as you were willing to face tests that were appropriate for your ambitions. But the more you read the story you find that this is not true. The only thing you can get by climbing the tower seem to be strength and social position. And most of that is created through your own effort while climbing the tower. But what if the original description was actually the truth? Only just like in the hidden floor people are climbing the tower in the wrong way.

Initially only irregulars could climb. The alternative way of climbing were everyone who is chosen by Headon was created by Zahard. Only instead of the administrators testing people they are tested by rankers. And instead of whatever they wish for they can get money, power and status by climbing. Mostly supplied by the Zahard empire.

But Baam who is a real irregular even in power by now should start climbing for real with admin tests. If only because his ambitions to be in conflict with Zahard is so hard that he needs some difficult tests to ease him into the challenge.

 

[Ripcord]

AIUI this isn't literally true the way you've written it (unless you go "a ranker is a regular, but also a ranker"). I think the issue for me is that right now there are clearly at least these four "zones" within the tower (listed inner-most to outer-most):

1. "Regular Area": open to regulars; rankers either can't go in or can go in but can't interfere with regulars
2. "Neutral Zone": just outside the "regular area", rankers can do their thing in it (where Yuri & Karaka fought, and where battle @ last station happens)
3. "Labyrinth Zone": the part of the "middle tower" full of twisting passages, stairs going up and down, and so on
4. "Outer Tower": the outer tower as we understand it, vast and largely unexplored/unknown

...and although the "Regular Area" is clearly part of the inner tower and the "Labyrinth Zone" is clearly part of the middle tower, what's going on with the "Neutral Zone" isn't 100% clear to me: is it part of the inner tower? does the "middle tower" start once you're in the "neutral area"?

From what we've seen so far, the "neutral area" comes super-close to the "regular area"—which makes it weird to think of it as being part of the middle tower—but it's not spelled out too clearly one way or the other to my knowledge.

For the inner area, Rankers can go there with permission but they usually need to have a specific reason for being there (for example a test administrator). Yuri could have been killed for being on 2F if the Administrator didn’t approve. The inner area is entirely meant to be a safe place for Regulars to climb the Tower.

Your “labyrinth” is a part of the middle area which is also the same as your “neutral” zone. We already know the Hell Train goes through the middle and inner areas of the Tower. Technically the train itself is always supposed to be a part of the Inner Tower, even when it passes through the middle area. Regulars are still supposed to be safe from Rankers in the middle area but the rules are more lax and I believe Rankers and Regulars mingle more often here.

 

[toil]

I think what I find confusing and unsatisfying in the way you've laid it out is the lack of a clear boundary between the inner and middle towers. Not saying you're wrong, just that if you're right it's an awkward world SIU's built.

It also seems at risk of being inconsistent if you tug on it. For sake of argument, if (1) the middle area is everything outside of the test grounds and (2) Regulars are supposed to be safe from Rankers in there, it makes the Karaka and Yuri fight hard to parse: it comes across as-if the regulars are at danger of being collateral damage if they step into the fight, but if that's the case...would it be ok for a ranker to just camp out near the train station and snipe regulars for kicks?

Why or why not? If you see what I mean: you can invent some legalistic thing ("manslaughter of regulars by rankers" is OK but "murder" isn't?), but the lack of a clear boundary just seems to invite gamesmanship and rules-lawyering (not necessarily the good kind).

In your take, though, the scenes in early S2 labeled as occurring in the "residential area" would be in the middle tower, I take it?

For the inner area, Rankers can go there with permission but they usually need to have a specific reason for being there (for example a test administrator). Yuri could have been killed for being on 2F if the Administrator didn’t approve. The inner area is entirely meant to be a safe place for Regulars to climb the Tower.

It's also a bit confusing b/c per the wiki, at least, regulars are confined to the inner tower until they reach the 20th floor, after which they can go into the middle area. That said, we only see 1F and 2F in any detail, of course, and even then it's hard to get a sense of scale, but 2F includes residential areas, multiple floating islands, and the actual "ground floor-ish" admin-test area itself.

Your “labyrinth” is a part of the middle area which is also the same as your “neutral” zone. We already know the Hell Train goes through the middle and inner areas of the Tower. Technically the train itself is always supposed to be a part of the Inner Tower, even when it passes through the middle area. Regulars are still supposed to be safe from Rankers in the middle area but the rules are more lax and I believe Rankers and Regulars mingle more often here.

I assume the workshop battle is somewhere in the middle area, then, as were the "residential areas" in early S2 (and thus why Jinsung/Karaka could visit, and so on).

 

[Brian Taboada]

Perhaps you are construing the regular areas to be inclusive of the entire "area of the floor" when in reality it is really just an area with boundaries and a border. We know the Inner Tower is where the selected Regulars climb the Tower. However, as we saw at the train stations (both the final and at the name hut station) the area between the station and the train is not considered a Regular area and a Ranker can attack a regular there. However, both the train and the station were considered regular areas. So I am thinking the whole "inner Tower" is not a regular area but only areas within the "inner tower are. At the alter it was said that killing everyone on the Hell Train would violate the rules of the tower. However, we also saw that the rules dont apply to certain rooms on the hell train, like the room where Baam and Wangan returned to from the Hidden Floor and were confronted by Yuri and Karaka. Then all the rules on the train just disappeared after the hidden floor (as said by Beta). The short of it is this, the areas where regulars cant be harmed by rankers seem to be not whole areas of the tower but little islands and even that might be able to be changed.

 

[Ripcord]

Perhaps you are construing the regular areas to be inclusive of the entire "area of the floor" when in reality it is really just an area with boundaries and a border. We know the Inner Tower is where the selected Regulars climb the Tower. However, as we saw at the train stations (both the final and at the name hut station) the area between the station and the train is not considered a Regular area and a Ranker can attack a regular there. However, both the train and the station were considered regular areas. So I am thinking the whole "inner Tower" is not a regular area but only areas within the "inner tower are. At the alter it was said that killing everyone on the Hell Train would violate the rules of the tower. However, we also saw that the rules dont apply to certain rooms on the hell train, like the room where Baam and Wangan returned to from the Hidden Floor and were confronted by Yuri and Karaka. Then all the rules on the train just disappeared after the hidden floor (as said by Beta). The short of it is this, the areas where regulars cant be harmed by rankers seem to be not whole areas of the tower but little islands and even that might be able to be changed.

The train is rather exceptional. We know it travels in the Middle area as well as the Inner area. I think using the Train as an example is not that great.

It might be easier to understand with respect to the Workshop battle because they didn’t move.

Archimedes stayed on F30 middle area. Rankers and Regulars could mingle here, but Rankers are still forbidden from interfering with Regulars. Rankers can still break the rules (potentially facing consequences) and harm Regulars. This is what the Train is like.

The inner area is rather distinct. The only Rankers allowed there are those with explicit permission from the admin as a supervisor or some other testing role with Regulars. This is why Evankhell would have killed Yuri and Evan for sneaking onto 2F.

We also see this on 20F. There are tons of people in the middle area (including Wangnan and Nia, but Wangnan didn’t realize Lurker and Nia were Regulars). Only the Regulars and Mule (as well as Gusus) were allowed in the inner tower. In fact Regulars had to pay a fee to enter the inner tower at F20. If Regulars failed they had to leave and go back to the middle area.

There is a clear barrier between inner, middle, and outer floors. These places have slightly different rules, but the problem is that some Rankers have Khun’s philosophy: he takes “the rules and makes them mine, that is how you dominate and rule.”

 

[Xeroxed]

@Ripcord
The inner area is much bigger than you think. People live and have business there. When Wagnan met Nia they were both in the inner area and everyone was technically a regular. But not all regulars are climbing and not every regular on a floor are from that floor. There might be people from higher floors that have moved down for some reason. Business or pleasure. What Wagnan had to pay for was retaking a failed test. If it had been his first time it would (probably) have been free.

I also think that places like the Hand of Arlene is located in the Inner Area. Each inner area are probably somewhere between the size of Ireland and the size of France.

Fake edit: Now that I think of it, SIU stated that regulars from below floor 20 were not even allowed to enter the middle area yet as they had not earned that privilege. So they must be living and working in the inner area.

 

[Ripcord]

@Ripcord
The inner area is much bigger than you think. People live and have business there. When Wagnan met Nia they were both in the inner area and everyone was technically a regular. But not all regulars are climbing and not every regular on a floor are from that floor. There might be people from higher floors that have moved down for some reason. Business or pleasure. What Wagnan had to pay for was retaking a failed test. If it had been his first time it would (probably) have been free.

I also think that places like the Hand of Arlene is located in the Inner Area. Each inner area are probably somewhere between the size of Ireland and the size of France.

Fake edit: Now that I think of it, SIU stated that regulars from below floor 20 were not even allowed to enter the middle area yet as they had not earned that privilege. So they must be living and working in the inner area.

No they were in the middle area on floor 20. And Wangnan was surprised that Lurker and Nia were actually Regulars. This means the area can’t possible be the inner area - otherwise Wangnan wouldn’t be surprised. Only Regulars are allowed in the Inner Tower.

In the manwah it stated many Regulars stop and enter the middle area and don’t climb anymore.

 

[toil]

There is a clear barrier between inner, middle, and outer floors. These places have slightly different rules, but the problem is that some Rankers have Khun’s philosophy: he takes “the rules and makes them mine, that is how you dominate and rule.”

On this part I either profoundly disagree or we have incompatible worldviews (meant in a friendly way): my confusion stems from the apparent boundaries between the inner and middle areas being so nebulous—I was expecting more of a visible barrier, at least—which had me wondering if SIU had quietly evolved his concept to introduce at least an informal split between a "regulars-only, and we mean it" part of the inner tower and a surrounding "you have to at least have been a regular to be here, and you have to follow the rules, but it's a bit looser in these parts". I think the source of my confusion—aside from the lack of visible barriers/boundaries, I'd even have accepted floating buoys for what it's worth!—is that during S1 the regulars live in the inner tower, but they apparently live in the middle area from floor 20 onwards (at least typically).

 

[kkck]

I wouldn't have expected actual physical barriers between areas tbh. My idea of floors is more like.... They are just this continent size places with arbitrary geography. Inner, outer and middle areas would make more sense either as established by the empire for the sake of the tower climbing system or something else within floors that affects this. Say, shinsoo concentration within a floor for instance.