Hangout Berserk General Discussion Thread

[KiSwordsman]

The only way to explain what Griffith did is because he didn't realize how important Guts was to him. He tried to pretend that it was only because he's "his", another tool he would use to realize his dream (like the rest of the BoH) but he really ended up "loving" Guts (as a friend). That's the only thing that can explain why he fucked up a plan he's been working on for years, he even had to prostitute himself in order to advance that plan. Also when he's rap...I mean having sex with Charlotte, he was thinking about Guts, but not in a sexual way lol. Even when he was about to sacrifice the BoH, he said that only one counted for him, and that was Guts.It's pretty ironic, Guts thought that Griffith didn't see him as a friend, so he wanted to be more and decided to leave to become worthy of Griffith's standards, while Griffith didn't even realize that he started seeing Guts as a friend, his only friend.
Actually this is the work of IoE who made things that way, even if Guts didn't leave and things went smoothly, up to the point that Griffith would have wanted to marry Charlotte, something would have happened that would have forced him to use his behelit. Actually from the looks of it, Griffith wouldn't have been able to marry Charlotte, as long as the old king of Midland was alive, who secretly had the hots for his daughter. So he most likely would have never agreed to marry her to Griffith, and prolly no man for that matter, because he wanted her for himself
In the end my only problem with the movies is that the relationship between the characters weren't as fleshed out as in the manga or even the TV series. Not just the relationships, but the characters themselves. We barely got to know the rest of the BoH that they were aready getting sacrificed, so people wouldn't have felt that sorry for them.
I usually hate Griffith but I admit he's an interesting character, and even now I really don't fully understand what he's after, especially with the latest developments.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I got a response, considering the general inactivity of the section. But yeah, I agree and I understand but at the same time it doesn't really change that it ultimately amounts to Griffith. His words to Princess Charlotte is what led to everything happening the way that it did. And yeah, we could blame it on the idea of evil that claims to have orchestrated the events. However, given the fact that even the God hand claim to not be aware of everything, (Skull Knight interference during the eclipse, being the only reason that guts and Casca are currently alive) it makes me wonder exactly how much the idea of evil has control over things. Plus for storytelling purposes it can't be the God that it claims itself to be, or the idea of God.

I also agree that Griffith is an interesting character, it's the whole reason that I decided to try to empathize with him. Keyword there being try. However, kinda like Jamie Lannister in game of thrones (for me at least), Griffith seemingly helping people, and doing what some might consider good currently does not erase everything he did for the sake of himself. Even ignoring the fact that he sacrificed all those people that looked up to him, let's call them steppingstones to his dream to have his own kingdom. He still forced guts to watch him rape Casca. That's still something he did consciously simply to hurt guts when the entire situation that he found himself in was his fault.

I personally believe that Griffith deserve no redemption, in any fashion. However, I'm positive he'll get it in some way. However, at some point he should acknowledge that everything that happened was on him.

Also, I'm tired of guts getting crapped on. I get there dynamic, everybody is supposed to see guts as some kind of demon or monster that revels in destruction and so on and so forth, while everyone sees Griffith as a savior, an angel. However, The guy really deserves a win once in a while though, I'll be upset if the author tries to pull a "sorry we couldn't fix your girlfriend's shattered mind deal." I mean come on look at his life it's been one shit storm after another. I mean for goodness sake, the guy literally or figuratively depending upon you look at it, went to hell and back. Twice! the guy deserves a win, and I don't think restoring Casca to how she used to be is too much to ask. What will piss me off even more is if it's revealed that Casca did this to herself to escape all the shit that she went through during and the fact that Griffith raped her in front of her boyfriend.

Also, in regard to the movies, I get what you mean but the main purpose would be to condense a lot of that for screen time. So I don't really blame them for that. I mean let's be honest, berserkers been going on for 25 years if my math is right. A movie that captured everything that the manga itself portrayed (even if were just talking about the Golden age) would be unbearably long for anyone outside the fandom to even try to bother to get into. Lol

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Lol yeah no one comes here, only me I guess
Well some people prolly feel that they said all they had to say about the manga, and that they already discussed everything about it, but every once in a while we somehow end up discussing it, even if it's just out of frustration because of the hiatus....

But yeah, I agree and I understand but at the same time it doesn't really change that it ultimately amounts to Griffith. His words to Princess Charlotte is what led to everything happening the way that it did. And yeah, we could blame it on the idea of evil that claims to have orchestrated the events. However, given the fact that even the God hand claim to not be aware of everything, (Skull Knight interference during the eclipse, being the only reason that guts and Casca are currently alive) it makes me wonder exactly how much the idea of evil has control over things. Plus for storytelling purposes it can't be the God that it claims itself to be, or the idea of God

First things first he wasn't aware that Guts was there, so it's not like he said it intentionally to hurt Guts or something. Once again it's a concidence, or to be more precise it was fate that had Guts be there at the moment Griffith said that. Up to that point everyone in the BoH were just tools used by Griffith, and they were prolly aware of that, but they just didn't want to face it. They all gave Griffith their lives so he can sacrifice them for the sake of his dream, even before the eclipse. The part with the kid and the little soldier reflects that. And if I'm not mistaken even Corkus makes that remark. There were hints that Griffith valued Guts, Caska was being jealous of Guts originally because he was closer to Griffith than her who spent so many years with him. So in the end it was unfortunate that Guts had to be there when Griffith said that, but it doesn't change the fact that he didn't see most of the BoH as his equals or his friends,and they may have had a reponsability in their fate because they so easily gave up their ability to think for themselves and allowed Griffith to do as he pleases with their lives, just for the sake of his dream. There's even a parallel that can be drawn between that and the places where they got branded: Corkus was branded on the forehead and he gave up his ability to think/decide for himself, Judeau was branded on his arm and he is the most agile with his hands, Caska was branded on the chest near the heart and in before she was in love with Griffith....and Guts was branded on the neck, usually where you put a leash on a dog. The symbolism of the dog is also present with the beast of darkness who takes the form of a black hound.
The Idea of Evil is in every way superior to the God Hand, it manipulated all the events so that Griffith would be born into the world. And the events of the eclipse are also orchestrated by IoE. Only IoE is all knowing, the God Hand are simply agents of the IoE, they are literally the hand of God in the world, they are able to influence the world by having more humans become apostles. Because they are just agents they must be lesser than IoE, so they can't know everything. IoE is able to see the paths of destiny,the God Hand not really. SK appearing at the eclipse could have also been the work of IoE, or simply because Guts, Caska and maybe even SK are sacrificed they no longer obey the rules of causality, hence the IoE and the God Hand alike couldn't have predicted that they would have survived.
The God in Berserk if it's still canon, is a god born of humanity's wish to have a reason for all the suffering in the world. It is not the typical God creator who created the world and rules it. It is still an omnipotent god, who is able to see the threads of destiny.Depending on how you see it, it can be hax, so I'm thinking that IoE is the closest thing to God in Berserk.

I also agree that Griffith is an interesting character, it's the whole reason that I decided to try to empathize with him. Keyword there being try. However, kinda like Jamie Lannister in game of thrones (for me at least), Griffith seemingly helping people, and doing what some might consider good currently does not erase everything he did for the sake of himself. Even ignoring the fact that he sacrificed all those people that looked up to him, let's call them steppingstones to his dream to have his own kingdom. He still forced guts to watch him rape Casca. That's still something he did consciously simply to hurt guts when the entire situation that he found himself in was his fault.

That's putting it too simply. Griffith raping Caska in front of Guts can be explained in different ways. Yes it can be because he wanted to simply hurt Guts, as he embraces his demonic nature, but it is mostly because Griffith reborn as Femto wants to make sure that he had no feelings for Guts anymore, that he's no longer human. And it looks like it didn't work since he's seen hesitating to kill Guts along with Caska when SK saves them. There is also a popular theory, that Griffith could have known that Caska was pregnant during the eclipse, with Guts child. So he tainted him and seeing as he later used him as his vessel I think there's a good chance he knew. Also before the eclipse the weakened Griffith already tries to do something to Caska, when they're in the cart, so it could be just lust and him trying out his new body. I think it could be a combination of all these, with Griffith wanting to assert that he's not human anymore being the main reason why he did that, as it could later on play a role in his downfall.

Also, I'm tired of guts getting crapped on. I get there dynamic, everybody is supposed to see guts as some kind of demon or monster that revels in destruction and so on and so forth, while everyone sees Griffith as a savior, an angel. However, The guy really deserves a win once in a while though, I'll be upset if the author tries to pull a "sorry we couldn't fix your girlfriend's shattered mind deal." I mean come on look at his life it's been one shit storm after another. I mean for goodness sake, the guy literally or figuratively depending upon you look at it, went to hell and back. Twice! the guy deserves a win, and I don't think restoring Casca to how she used to be is too much to ask. What will piss me off even more is if it's revealed that Casca did this to herself to escape all the shit that she went through during and the fact that Griffith raped her in front of her boyfriend.

Well that's the main plot point. Ever since Griffith came back he was described as the White hawk, some sort of messiah, and this is all to deceive people better when in reality he's the Falcon of Darkness that will bring an age of darkness to the world (prophecy of the Falcon of darkness). Guts with his attitude and him being a "berserker" would easily be mistaken for the Falcon of darkness (as seen with Farnese and her bunch). So it's all a matter of how Guts will be able to rally the humans that are currently in Falconia and all over the world perhaps, who are being deceived by Griffith. I think Guts should start by getting the support of the magical creatures, like the Hanafubuku king, and the rest could be achieved with him saving the people of Falconia, after realizing how horrible of a ruler Griffith is. There's clearly a parallel between his kingdom and that of Gaiseric (he even used the remains of the old capital for Falconia). I don't believe the ending will be good for Guts, at best he could sacrifice his life for the sake of humanity, and become a Jesus like figure. If not then the ending will be bittersweet, with Guts dying,and Griffith realizing his mistake and maybe taking down IoE, and he will die so that he can be reborn to meet Guts again lol.

Miura used a few inspirations like Guin Saga and Devilman , these are old school manga and novels that aren't exactly known for having good endings, especially Devilman. That is why I don't have much hope for Guts, who is just 20 in the books and he's already been through a lot of shit But I would be really happy if he went all Vlad Tepes on Griffith

And regarding Caska to me it's pretty clear that she went insane because she tried to escape all the madness that happened to her. She couldn't face her problems so she lost her sanity, and frankly it's better.If she faces them she might resent Guts, not for leaving Griffith, but because of the child as he tried to kill him. And since he's now Griffith's vessel Guts cannot kill him, as long as he uses the child's body. So maybe it's better if she's not sane, plus she's way more funny like this (I wasn't a fan of pre eclipse Caska).

 

[mangah]

sorry , but does berserk get suspends !? , I even don't remember when was last time I read berserk 337 !?

 

[TheWanderer]

Re: Berserk Chapter 337 Discussion/ 338 Prediction

I have read the interviews. I get it, truly. At the same time, is that not of his own volition? You can see the insane progress of his artwork over all of the volumes. His skill in that regard is without question. We admire it for sure, but we aren't on here discussing his art, we are on here discussing his story. Art can be burned and lost, but we can always tell stories. I appreciate his art, but not so much I wish to see him be a hermit and live in exile to slave away at this just to have an awesome picture that I'll honesly breeze through the first time just to get more story.

This all boils down to what his priorities are. If he doesn't know where the story is going and he has writer's block, I get that. I'd be just as happy with him telling us, which knowing plenty of Japanese men I know that'd never happen. If he is prioritizing his art to the degree his story is not being told, then that's fucked up. It's his to do with as he pleases. He should just understand that in some way it diminishes his work in a way. People give up and forget. We live in a fast paced world and that's just the nature of things. I will always stick around to the end, but I totally get others bailing and forgetting about it. No updates, infrequent releases, the worry he will die before he finishes. That's hard for some to take. So yeah, I get his life kind of sucks, but he sort of made it that way. He owns his work and that is great, but if he runs himself in the ground to do it he's only hurting himself and for me, personally, I'd rather he stop writing altogether and live than to give me a story that makes the man keel over and die.

---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------



Also, on this, I agree. If this doesn't end in my lifetime I will haunt this SoB until he dies. And trust me, I live in California and I drive fast as hell. My life span is already shortened.

Honestly, it's a bit rude to say that about Miura, if he chooses to live his life by taking pride in his art then you shouldn't insult him by calling him a slave to his work. He's doing what he does because he loves it, if he didn't love what he did then he wouldn't try his best to bring out the best pieces to tell his story. Most mangas tend to diminish in artistic quality overtime, the lines get simpler and the level of detail starts to diminish however Miura is one of the few mangaka whom have pushed hard to improve their style and get better and better with age. He wants his work to be a masterpiece and you can't make a masterpiece if you cut corners. While yes we as fans would love to see how this story ends, you have to respect the creator for doing things the way he wants to do it and to say his way of working is wrong is an insult to his creative mind.

 

[Bonefist]

Yes, but masterpieces have an end, and a great one. If he dies before having finished Berserk, another mangaka will take his place, but it will not be Berserk anymore.
It's good to see that he underpins his work with a lot of things, but the story progresses very slowly. The last arc with the Sea God is pretty useless and adds nothing to the story. Just like Rosine's and Jill's one.

I understand why people grumble about that. But an author does what he wants with his work, he doesn't do it for the fans. =P

In fact, we don't even know if he's sick, too tired, or lazy to continue his manga. Let's wait until we've got some news about him.

 

[hassan]

I hate Miura. I just hope there is a will of some sort that contains the ending of the berserk. If not there would be a void left in my heart that will curse Miura till the end of times. No kidding.

Thanks for the correction @ladylula

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I hate muiara. I just hope there is a will of some sort that contains the ending of the berserk. If not there would be a void left in my heart that will curse muira till the end of times. No kidding.

Before you do, you should learn how to spell his name, it's MIURA, not muiara or muira....M-I-U-R-A.

 

[llamapie]

sorry , but does berserk get suspends !? , I even don't remember when was last time I read berserk 337 !?

No. This is normal.

Tis the price we pay for the best manga ever. Regular releases would be too good to be true. Miura (the mangaka) has been writing this manga for I want to say nearly 30 years now. It's only on chapter 337. That being said you can do the math and expect long breaks. Lately it's been pretty bad though. Talking 6 months to a year between chapters. It's worth it, I swear!

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

At this point if the manga doesn't resume by September or October we can expect the hiatus to last a year, just like in 2013 if I'm not mistaken. Which would mean that we would have to wait for a new chapter till 2016. Sad but we can't do much about it.

 

[RaffoBaffo]

At this point if the manga doesn't resume by September or October we can expect the hiatus to last a year, just like in 2013 if I'm not mistaken. Which would mean that we would have to wait for a new chapter till 2016. Sad but we can't do much about it.

Wel, the last Episode is from September, so the Year long Hiatus is almost certain.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Wel, the last Episode is from September, so the Year long Hiatus is almost certain.

Yeah but regarding Miura's schedule, Berserk usually resumes at the beginning of a trimester.In this case it could either be the third of fourth one.Since April is long past, it could either be July or October(the last chapter also came out in October, not September if I'm not mistaken)

 

[Bonefist]

Don't be too pessimistic. Gigantomachia was the reason for which he stopped Berserk in 2013. He was regular by giving one volume per year at this time.

A one-year-hiatus would be very bad both for us and him. An author can't stay away from his story for too long, otherwise he'll fail it.

 

[RaffoBaffo]

Yeah but regarding Miura's schedule, Berserk usually resumes at the beginning of a trimester.In this case it could either be the third of fourth one.Since April is long past, it could either be July or October(the last chapter also came out in October, not September if I'm not mistaken)

Nope, the Episode came out at the end of September, the date listed in the wikia is the date of the Evil_Genius relase.

An author can't stay away from his story for too long, otherwise he'll fail it.

Well, we are now at the ninth month of hiatus.
Not axactly a full year, but still...

Also, the Year-long-Hiatus is almost certain, at this point, 'cause a new Episode in August in nearly impossible, i think.

Our last hope is the next issue, at the end of July.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Nope, the Episode came out at the end of September, the date listed in the wikia is the date of the Evil_Genius relase

I stand corrected, well if my memory isn't too bad it came out in the last issue of September, explains why the chapter was dated in October.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

Don't be too pessimistic. Gigantomachia was the reason for which he stopped Berserk in 2013. He was regular by giving one volume per year at this time.

A one-year-hiatus would be very bad both for us and him. An author can't stay away from his story for too long, otherwise he'll fail it.

We don't know that actually. Miura never specifically said that he took a year break because of Gigantomakhia. Actually he said he had the idea for a long time, so I really don't think it would take him a whole year to develop.
But if we follow your logic maybe Miura is working on something else. He did express his wish to make Gigantomakia a long running series. While it was good, I'd rather he worked on Berserk, then start a new series with mechas if he wants to (that's his wish apparently).

 

[RaffoBaffo]

well if my memory isn't too bad it came out in the last issue of September

Yep, 26 September.

 

[llamapie]

Don't be too pessimistic. Gigantomachia was the reason for which he stopped Berserk in 2013. He was regular by giving one volume per year at this time.

A one-year-hiatus would be very bad both for us and him. An author can't stay away from his story for too long, otherwise he'll fail it.

Ya I actually really liked that short series. Would be awesome if it was a full time manga. Can't have both that and Berserk though. Why does Miura have to be so damn good at this?

 

[Bonefist]

If he makes another one-shot, I'll only give a look. I don't like mecha, so my opinion is already distorted.

His one-shots are good but nothing more. Maybe he wants us to read — understand buy — his one-shots because his name is on it. =O

He's like Inoue, he does two things at the same time, and the main project is on stand-by.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I didn't think Gigantomakhia was exceptional either, it was good at least. I don't feel he should compromise his work on Berserk which will always be his main series by taking huge breaks to develop new series.Maybe when Berserk ends it would feel right but not now.
Miura has only worked on Berserk for a lot of years, for the exception of some collaborations with Buronson way back in the day (when his still had his old art style), so I don't think the comparison with Inoue really stands.
If Gigantomakhia were to become a regular series then yeah maybe we could say that they're similar, but I feel Miura will always excel in the fantasy genre, not so much in the mecha genre. Not that Goura wasn't interesting, it's just that it's not going to appeal to all the Berserk fans.

 

[gnut]

well depends if he brings a dark style to a mecha....i'm not a fan of mecha either but I really enjoyed evangelion.
because of it's dark undertone...i'm sure miura could pull something similar off.

 

[Bonefist]

When I said he's like Inoue, that was for this case. They're peerless drawer and aren't Kazuo Kamimura. They can't produce four hundred pages per month, for two or more series. They have to drag one of their series.

That's actually the case with Vagabond. And let's hope that Miura isn't in this case...