Best Manga Overall

[ashher]

@amida i probably didn't make myself clear enough. 'definitive' means 'having an universal/empirical definition/meaning'. The word 'best' does have an 'empirical meaning/definition'. Which is being 'superior in quality'. Hence its 'definitive'. But since the very process of determining quality is 'subjective', 'determination of what is best' is subjective as well. Lets take your example of 1+2=3...in this case the subjectivity from the 'process of measuring quality' is usually removed by making 'observational truth' the only standard of quality. But if we add other standards, say for example 'imagination' and 'popularity'...the whole thing becomes different and therefore 'best' answer may become something else. Lets imagine that 'quality' is a thermometer...then 'best' would be its 'definitive' highest point. But the thermometer itself is subject to different type of scale, thereby changing the value/determination of the highest point as well...but the idea/definition of 'highest point' is absolute...hence definitive. That is why 'best' is a 'definitive' term...but its determination is 'subjective'. To make it even simpler...if one of your friend says 'fight club is the best movie' and someone else says 'titanic is the best'...both of them claiming the same thing about two different movies. That their claim is the same means that 'best' has an empirical meaning...but the difference in actually what they call 'best' means that its determination is relative/subjective.

 

[shinsengumi]

in philosophy, they use the word, "favorite", for aesthetical judgements.
"Best" is defined as empirical, it's measurable/absolute
"Favorite" is not defined as empirical, but rather as nomative, as in it's a value judement, which is relative.
It's impossible to know who's the BEST musician/artist but, it's very possible to know who's the most FAVORITE musician/artist

you must have noticed that this is not a philosophical discussion right ? you shouldnt take "word definitions" to extreme literallity here .because based on your definition ; neither "best" nor "favourite" fits here since some people already made comments like " my favourite is X but the best is Y " and picked different names

best is only measurable as long as there are set conditions , like ; "best guitar player" cant be known but "best in speed" is measurable and can be found out . "best manga" cant be known but "best manga overall" is at least measurable , yet still indefinite and far from being absolute
"overall" refers to "most balanced" where you should even rule out your favourite one if it lacks in some aspects . while its measurable , no way it is absolute because everybody takes the average value of all aspects according to their personal tastes and make their final decision based on what they prioritize

 

[Amida]

again for any aesthetical judgement (arbitrary/relative/subjective/opinionated), the word philosophy uses is FAVORITE, as Best is defined as absolute/exact ("yes"/"no" or "is"/"is not").

Yes, but this is not a philosophical debate, so there's no real need try and differentiate the difference between favorite and best, because in the modern language the two are nearly always interchangeable, unless in philosophy or other fields of academia.

@amida i probably didn't make myself clear enough. 'definitive' means 'having an universal/empirical definition/meaning'. The word 'best' does have an 'empirical meaning/definition'. Which is being 'superior in quality'. Hence its 'definitive'. But since the very process of determining quality is 'subjective', 'determination of what is best' is subjective as well. Lets take your example of 1+2=3...in this case the subjectivity from the 'process of measuring quality' is usually removed by making 'observational truth' the only standard of quality. But if we add other standards, say for example 'imagination' and 'popularity'...the whole thing becomes different and therefore 'best' answer may become something else. Lets imagine that 'quality' is a thermometer...then 'best' would be its 'definitive' highest point. But the thermometer itself is subject to different type of scale, thereby changing the value/determination of the highest point as well...but the idea/definition of 'highest point' is absolute...hence definitive. That is why 'best' is a 'definitive' term...but its determination is 'subjective'. To make it even simpler...if one of your friend says 'fight club is the best movie' and someone else says 'titanic is the best'...both of them claiming the same thing about two different movies. That their claim is the same means that 'best' has an empirical meaning...but the difference in actually what they call 'best' means that its determination is relative/subjective.

Best is definitive in the means that it has a definition. But the definition of the word is not definitive. Hence my argument above.

The problem I gave is definitive in all aspects, from how it is solved to the answer. You can take others opinions on it, but there is only one true answer, so if you go by definition, "correct" would be the word one should use, not "best", since it's purely subjective, and I could say 55 is the best answer to 1+2 because I think it is the best. As a said above, the modern language uses "best" in many ways, shapes, and forms, and shouldn't be debated in such depth unless applying it to a specific field. You're attempting to relate philosophical meanings of "best" to a non-philosophical event.

 

[benelori]

Yes, but this is not a philosophical debate.

That's true enough...though maybe the examples should be related to manga or particular titles, so that this can be on topic again.

 

[ashher]

@amida i agree with you when you say 'best' is a word used in different forms and meanings. But that is exactly what i was trying to point out as a WRONG thing to do. 'Best' shouldn't be mistaken for 'correct'(your example) or 'favorite'(which many voters tend to do in this sort of poll) or 'popular'. Its a definitive term and it should be used as such. And its defintion is certainly definitive(it wouldn't have been a definition otherwise). I've showed that, and and i've also showed that the application is what is subjective.

---

@benelori you did give us a better presented arguement in favor of OP by bringing in the 'violence and gore' factor. But still it boils down to the same question of what parameter you should value more when you are trying to judge quality of an art...'popularity' or 'others'. 'gore' is but a literary option for a writer. Use of it in berserk makes it uncomfortable to many readers, you said...which basically means that it brings down points in 'popular acceptance/ audience range/popularity' scale. But when 'gore' is used well, it can raise score highly in 'storytelling' department, as is the case with Berserk. So which one should you value more when you are trying to decide on 'best'?

 

[shinsengumi]

^ you are just failing to see the hidden phrase in the tittle which is "for you" or "in your opinion"
as in "Best Manga Overall for you" / "best manga overall in your opinion"
you are the only one to chose the parameters you will value while you decide the best . 2 pages of off-topic discussion over the usage of "best" is way too too much , you should leave it at that already

*************

i think FMA deserves to be the number 1 at least for now , until others are also completed and a better overall judgement can be made

 

[saladesu]

Let's leave the discussion of what constitutes or defines "best" aside, any further debate on the definition of "best" and the like is off-topic. Let's discuss what we, personally think is the best manga overall~

I agree with you, shinsengumi, FMA is my personal favourite/best at least for now. Of course it gets plus points for being completed, thus I have a better picture of it as a whole. I feel it gives me the whole package - food for thought (philosophical thinking, deep story), action, emotional investment, comedy, continuity of story and evidence of forward planning and foreshadowing...

While I am a huge fan of One Piece as well, I would still have to say that FMA wins this with its deeper story and ability to touch people greatly, and appeal to almost anyone. Even my 50+ year old mother loves FMA I also really like that Arakawa-sensei had a real goal in mind and built her manga around it and didn't let it drag longer than it needed to be. She is the one who should say "keikaku doori" (just as planned), because she really did plan it all out from the start.

Spoiler: Possible spoilers for some FMA battles

For example, she knew from the start that she wanted to make an extravagant battle of the Mustang vs Lust battle (in which Lust dies), and she then decided that she needed to give Mustang a subordinate who smokes (and thus would have a lighter).

And for that reason, Jean Havoc was created It was not something she randomly pulled out of nowhere, something fairly uncommon when it comes to drawing manga.

 

[jorped]

Until 3 weeks ago i would say withouth any doubt that the best manga was Naruto. But as i alreay pointed something happened three weeks ago and that was that i started reading One Piece and i really enjoyed it. its different from Naruto cuz in my oppinion the plot is not so good but i think it also is more funny and in the current time althought this was the first week that i had to wait for a new chapter i think that i enjoyed more this week reading One piece than Naruto .

If i could choose 2 i would choose both Naruto and One Piece but as i can only choose one i will choose Naruto cuz although in the current moment isnt being in my oppinion so good as what i was expecting in the overall is awesome.

 

[destiny4ever]

For this award category my vote was between Fullmetal Alchemist, Berserk and Death Note. Since I couldn’t vote for all three I had to make the list shorter; I decided to eliminate Berserk. The manga is amazing so don’t get me wrong, but I eliminated it because it hasn't ended yet and the way a story concludes is something important for me. Now that leaves me with two series: FMA and DN. Both are incredible series, but sadly (and I’m embarrassed to say this) I haven’t finished reading/watching Death Note.

Spoiler: Death Note

After L died I lost some of my motivation and interest in the series and I stopped reading/watching Death Note. However, I do plan on finish this series and I plan to do it soon.

Since I don’t know how Death Note ends, I couldn’t vote for this manga. Now regarding FMA, I did read the whole manga and I enjoyed reading it a lot, from the very beginning until the very end, so that is why I’m voting for FMA for this category.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Best Manga Overall Announcement!

The results are in for the first Manga Awards Ceremony (2010) at long last! The moment you have been waiting for, has finally arrived! [Drum rolls]

But first, our thanks. We thank everyone for their participation in nominating, voting, discussing, critiquing, and suggesting ideas for future Awards Ceremonies. This wouldn't have been possible without the hard work of the staff and most importantly our cherished members and loyal fans of manga!

but secondly, let's review of how we got to the winner(s) of the Best Manga Overall Category.

Spoiler: The nominations and their "vote counts"

Total “Votes” = 61

1. One Piece with 14 “votes”
2. Fullmetal Alchemist with 12 “votes”
3. Berserk with 5 “votes”
4. Naruto with 4 “votes”
5. Death Note with 3 “votes”

Kuroshitsuji with 2 “votes”
Psyren with 2 “votes”
I”s with 2 “votes”
D. Gray Man with 2 “votes”
Yotsuba with 1 “vote”
Kekkaishi with 1 “vote”
Doraemon with 1 “vote”
Harukana Machi-E with 1 “vote”
Claymore with 1 “vote”
Vinland Saga with 1 “vote”
Hunter x Hunter with 1 “vote”
Dragon Ball with 1 “vote”
Great Teacher Onizuka with 1 “vote”
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind with 1 “vote”
Tegami Bachi with 1 “vote”
Yu Yu Hakusho with 1 “vote”
Guyver with 1 “vote”
Blame with 1 “vote”
Slam Dunk with 1 “vote”

and now, the winners from the Staff's choices:

Spoiler: The STARs' (Manga Editors, Translaters, Artists, and Reviewers) choice of winner(s)

One Piece

Spoiler: The Moderators' (Red, Blue, Green, and Pink) choice of winner(s)

Fullmetal Alchemist

and finally, what you all have been waiting for, Ladies and Gentlemen, the Members' winner choice [Drum rolls]:

Spoiler: The winner of Best Manga Overall

 

[ashher]

I'm proud of those who like naruto. Glad that we can be fair in our judgement. But more importantly, what happened to Berserk? Its unbelievably sad to see such class getting shunned like this.

 

[saladesu]

I guess its a matter of having a smaller readership... More people read shounen than seinen - just look at the number of posts (or threads, or even sections) in the Shounen section of MH compared to the Seinen section. Sad as it may be, shounen somehow seems to draw more fans and gets more attention in general.

I personally have yet to read Berserk (I am going to... Soon), so I can't comment on it. I love both One Piece and FMA a great deal, but I went with FMA simply because it's such a complete package. Not because it's a completed manga, but because of all its different aspects and facets that made it such a good manga. Action, comedy, heartwarming-ness, philosophical life questions, romance... FMA really had it all, imo. It made me sad to see that the gap between OP and FMA was so big. Well, at least FMA won the Staff vote :3

 

[salam-daim]

yeah, we have a lot of manga better than the big 3, but competition between the big 3, one piece win by large margin ....

 

[M3J]

The problem is that the Big 3 are mainstream; many people who read one of those manga tend not to know of others. Big 3 can be seen as the manga to introduce others to the world of manga, and you usually have new readers that have either read the Big 3 or prefers it over other manga, not to mention wanting to be loyal. If I had not gotten into Naruto and Yu Yu, I'd have most likely voted for Dragon Ball since it was naruto that got me interred in manga.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

I'm proud of those who like naruto. Glad that we can be fair in our judgement. But more importantly, what happened to Berserk? Its unbelievably sad to see such class getting shunned like this.

It's really a Shonen focussed community here, just like pretty much everywhere. Seinen don't really make it into top lists of overall sells etc. anywhere. Probably it's still that manga really are mainly read by younger people than that.

However, that Berserk and Death Note (yep I know that Death Note is a Shonen, don't worry) ended up so low surprises me a little, especially for Death Note which is pretty much a classic.