Discussion Blackbeard without a Devil fruit

Fox666

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IMHO I also think the Yonko are overrated. People talk like the Whitebeard pirates were evenly matched against the Marines and Shichibukai.

In reality the Shichibukai may have caused far more causalities for the Marines than the Whitebeard pirates side (Jinbe risking his life for them, Hancock dispatched several Pacifistas and Blackbear destroyed the Headquarters). And if you consider each of the 43 allied pirate crews as on par with one of the Whitebeard 16 divisions, that would mean their power was multiplied.

Now about Thatch. Truth is we know even less about him than about Shanks. But we have seen his fellow division commanders in a battle with the world's elite and they fared quite well.
Are the lesser division commanders very powerfull? Supposedly they weren't having an easy time against the Vice-Admirals or Pacifistas. And Moriah who was defeated by Luffy fair and square was fighting one of the commanders, so it's no surprise that Blackbeard defeated one of them.
 
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Coby

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I've thought about this issue for quite a while and I have a hypothesis about both Shanks and Blackbeard.

Oda has portrayed Shanks as a reliable and trustworthy character (by saving Luffy the main protagonist at the cost of his arm, and by going out of his way and warning Whitebeard of Blackbeard's plan). Now I mention this because I absolutely believe everything Shanks stated in his monologue to Whitebeard is all 100% true.

Lets analyze what was posted by Zehahaha
Shanks: Whitebeard...I've gone through many battles and suffered various wounds, but what aches now is this one! This isn't a wound from adventures, nor did I get this from Mihawk; Your man "Blackbeard" Teach was the one who inflicted this wound! And it's not like I was careless.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here Whitebeard!? He's been waiting for a chance...he didn't take a position of a captain or make himself known; all this time, he's been hiding in the shadow of the famous "Whitebeard!" - and now he's gained "power" and started to take action.
We learned during the Marineford arc that Blackbeard could have been the second division commander of WB's crew, but turned down the opportunity. We also know that Sengoku the fleet admiral of the marines, had never heard of Blackbeard when Laffitte nominated him for the position of Shichibukai. Shanks is accurate in stating that he's been hiding in the shadow of Whitebeard, and with his new "power" (referring to his devil fruit which we saw in action a chapter later) he was ready to take action (which he did by capturing Ace and invading Impel Down). That second part of Shank's monologue is completely true! Blackbeard in the end did go after Whitebeard's position and has in fact conquered for the most part a lot of his old territory.

Now if we go back and look at the first part of Shank's monologue we have no reason to believe he is lying about anything there as well. Shank's wasn't caught off guard by Blackbeard and his scar does in fact hurt him. While we don't know when exactly Shank's received his scar (Oda is doing his best to hide this from us) I believe the reason it is being kept secret is because there is more to the Shanks and Blackbeard relationship (i'll explain what I mean by this later in my post).

For now I believe Blackbeard has always been strong. We know that Blackbeard is aware of Haki. Specifically, we know he has observation haki. For example, he's able to sense Luffy's strength in Mock town and is perplexed by his simple bounty of 30 million beli at the time. He also knew a confrontation between Bellamy and Luffy would occur inside the bar. It would not be a stretch to say that Blackbeard is aware of the other forms of Haki as well, seeing as he was on WB's ship for more than a decade, but the question is why don't we see him use CoA or conqueror's?

My hypothesis is that Blackbeard is so in love with his Yami Yami no Mi powers that in the first half of the series he decided to only use his devil fruit abilities and not use haki at all. Blackbeard had finally obtained his beloved devil fruit after so many years of searching for it, that all he would do is just use his is Yami Yami no mi powers and avoid using haki all together (perhaps to experiment with the positives and negatives of his devil fruit).

Going back to Shank's I believe there is more to his relationship with Blackbeard. Shank's is known as the captain of the Red Hair Pirates and is known as Red Haired Shank's. Yet, Shank's jolly roger has no emphasis on his red hair, but on the scars given to him by Blackbeard. Interestingly enough the Jolly Roger Shank's uses has been around since the beginning when he was still wearing the strawhat (one would think his Jolly roger would include the strawhat since it is an important heirloom). I think the reason Shank's scar hurts him is because he might have respected Blackbeard a lot at one point (perhaps even influenced him to continue being a pirate after Roger died) and felt betrayed with what Blackbeard eventually did (killing a fellow nakama).
 

Zehahaha

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Let's be honest, BB didn't take risks, he could've easily made his crew and face the GL/NW pirates like many other rookies did, but he didn't
Luffy was close to death much more than BB so far, and I think the same could apply for the rest of the rookies

BB was looking for the shortcut to power, obviously some risks are always present, but they were calculated risks... This dude waltzed in ID because he felt he could pull it off, he was confident enough (although his arrogance nearly killed him vs Magellan), but after that the dude beat the shit out of Magellan, came to the war and was waiting for WB to be weak enough to pull out his trick, and then decided to face Sengoku/Garp with the help of his crew

If BB liked risks that much, he'd risked going against Akainu to get the ship, he'd have risked going after a healthy WB
 

Coby

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Let's be honest, BB didn't take risks, he could've easily made his crew and face the GL/NW pirates like many other rookies did, but he didn't
Luffy was close to death much more than BB so far, and I think the same could apply for the rest of the rookies

BB was looking for the shortcut to power, obviously some risks are always present, but they were calculated risks... This dude waltzed in ID because he felt he could pull it off, he was confident enough (although his arrogance nearly killed him vs Magellan), but after that the dude beat the shit out of Magellan, came to the war and was waiting for WB to be weak enough to pull out his trick, and then decided to face Sengoku/Garp with the help of his crew

If BB liked risks that much, he'd risked going against Akainu to get the ship, he'd have risked going after a healthy WB

I do not understand this notion of shortcut to power or risk. We know that BB was on WB's ship for decades trying to get his hands on the Yami Yami no Mi. I do not believe he was fodder his entire time on WB's ship. Thus, by shortcut to power do you mean how fast he constructed his crew from level 6 prisoners of Impel Down?

As for risk do you mean to say BB is not strong because he doesn't take risk? Because I believe he has taken plenty of risk's in the story.
 

Zehahaha

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I do not understand this notion of shortcut to power or risk. We know that BB was on WB's ship for decades trying to get his hands on the Yami Yami no Mi. I do not believe he was fodder his entire time on WB's ship. Thus, by shortcut to power do you mean how fast he constructed his crew from level 6 prisoners of Impel Down?

As for risk do you mean to say BB is not strong because he doesn't take risk? Because I believe he has taken plenty of risk's in the story.
I've never said that BB was weak without his DF, that's not the discussion, however did he face dangers like Luffy did so far in his story ? No, he went to hide under WB to look for the Yami Yami No Mi, with that particular fruit he could succeed in the next steps of his plans

Luffy said " I want to be PK " and he went facing the odds, BB said " I want to be PK " and devised a clear plan to achieve his goals, the way he got stronger was much more faster compared to Luffy, basically BB had to wait decades in WB's ships not because he was training to get stronger, he was simply waiting for Yami Yami no Mi and we all saw what happened the moment he got his fruit, and how strong he became

He went from a nameless pirate to a Yonko in a matter of months or 1 year because his plan could finally be executed thanks to his fruit, if that's not a shortcut, then I don't know what it is

As for risks, I said he took less risks compared to Luffy, Luffy faced life and death situations far more than BB... That's what I meant, Luffy's path so far is much more harder than BB
 

maravish

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The "risks" Blackbeard took were mostly due to him being overconfident in his own abilities. He would have gotten wiped out by magellen if shiryuu didn't save them. For me Shanks was strong after we found out the strawhat was originally rogers. I'm guessing roger saw huge potential in shanks. About his scars, I think he got them after roger disbanded his crew. I have no basis for that its just a guess
 

Zehahaha

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The "risks" Blackbeard took were mostly due to him being overconfident in his own abilities. He would have gotten wiped out by magellen if shiryuu didn't save them. For me Shanks was strong after we found out the strawhat was originally rogers. I'm guessing roger saw huge potential in shanks. About his scars, I think he got them after roger disbanded his crew. I have no basis for that its just a guess
Obviously him being cocky is a weak point of his, as WB mentioned
I have no doubt he could've handled Magellan if he was serious and cautious but he isn't that kind of guy, he'll always drop his guard at some point because he gets cocky
 
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