Society Can't find a job? So sue...

[Dark-san]

In this time of economic recession, many of graduates find it hard to secure a permanent job when companies implements hiring freeze, wage cuts, retrenchment etc. But just one particular lady did the unthinkable after she only found herself jobless for only 3 months! 0.0

Spoiler

Quoted from BBC on 3rd August 2009:

Jobless graduate sues her college

A New York woman who says she cannot find a job is suing the college where she obtained a bachelor's degree, the New York Post reports.

Trina Thompson, 27, filed a lawsuit last week against Monroe College in Bronx Supreme Court.

She is seeking to recover $70,000 (£42,000) she spent on tuition to get her information technology degree.

Monroe College spokesman Gary Axelbank said Ms Thompson's lawsuit was "completely without merit".

The ex-student, who received her degree in April, says the college's Office of Career Advancement did not provide her with the leads and career advice it had promised.

"They have not tried hard enough to help me," she wrote about the college in her lawsuit.

Her mother, Carol, said her daughter was "very angry at her situation" having "put all her faith" in her college.

With her student loans coming due, the family would be saddled with more debt, the graduate's mother added.

Monroe insists it helps its graduates find jobs.

"The college prides itself on the excellent career-development support that we provide to each of our students, and this case does not deserve further consideration," its spokesman said.

Unthinkable right? In my case, my university only help us out in term of arranging networking sessions or job fairs. Other than that you are on your own. I could sympathize with her because I graduated last year December and it was like 6 months before I finally got one just a few weeks ago. And it is like twice of what she underwent. ._.

Either way, she will look set to lose this proceedings for this one. In this period of time when you know that you are really hard on looking for jobs, there are always something to do.

• Go freelance.
  
  Be an entrepreneur. Open up your own business. If you don't have the cash, go set up an online business. It doesn't cost much to set up a virtual shopfront these days with sites like blogspot. =)
  
  Or with your networks, try taking into several projects and doing them yourself to earn some quick cash.

• Go work part- time/ contract
  
  Even though it might not be a permanent job. At least it helps to bring in the cash on a temporary basis.

• Approach recruitment agencies/ networks
  
  Something it is good to approach your friend and through him, who knows you might land yourself a job. Or another thing is that you can approached to one of this recruitment agencies and they could link you up on a job.

• Go for industrial training
  
  I have been attending industrial trainings for 3 months prior to getting this job under a government backed scheme. It helps pass the time more easily and also you could learn something from it.

• Go indulge in your hobbies/ Take a break or go on a holiday
  
  If you can afford it, go on a short trip. Freshen yourself and before starting on the job hunt again.

My final advice is to stay active, be positive and do not be choosy about jobs. Like what I learn from an online pal (kudos to Ikcud), just take up whatever you can now. This isn't a time for us to dwindle around. >.>l

 

[Chidori602]

something I hate a lot, is poor people suing rich people.

 

[steelwingcrash1]

This is the reason why I always advise my students to do their best in studying because the best opportunities come to people who gave their best efforts while they were still in the academe.

Anyway, this is practically a good thread,

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

This is the reason why I always advise my students to do their best in studying because the best opportunities come to people who gave their best efforts while they were still in the academe.

Anyway, this is practically a good thread,

No I disagree, the ones who actually attain success are creative people and those who think outside the box.

Fcebook CEO was a college student, he created a social website and bam in less than ten years he is among the richest entrepreneurs.

Do you think he would attain something like that if he persued his studies ? I don't think so
My advice to you is to think outside the box, and do .

 

[Roflkopt3r]

I don't really want to spend much time on searching for a job, so I should be glad that there are next to no problems to find one with the subjects I plan to chose my study out of (chemistry, engineering, medicine).

No I disagree, the ones who actually attain success are creative people and those who think outside the box.

Fcebook CEO was a college student, he created a social website and bam in less than ten years he is among the richest entrepreneurs.

Do you think he would attain something like that if he persued his studies ? I don't think so
My advice to you is to think outside the box, and do .

That sounds like a gambling. Without money, contacts and a really great idea, such a project will fail. With those things, it still has a good chance of failing.
The safest way certainly is to start with a study which has at least realistic chances for a job and begin to work normally, when some time for a crazy project remains in the middle of that, then it's fine.


About that case of suing: If the university promised aid in form of counsel or something like that, it would be partially replicable why someone would sue, if they don't recieve that service. But this case just sounds stupid nonetheless. Not only that it's only three months, but also that the university insists that they gave the promised advice as well as the fact that she's getting so frustrated about getting a job after having a bachelor in IT. There should be enough options... First, it can't be too hard to find a job with that, perhaps she's just really bad with applications.. Second, if it is, then it probably is because the request for people with a master graduation are requested more, so maybe she should try that.

I don't know how that situation is like in the US, but I recently read that the bachelor isn't really requested in Germany (Bachelor and Master are still quite new here), but rather people with master graduation are wanted. The whole Bologna-Process (which was supposed to simplify and assimilate the studies and graduations -Bachelor & Master- throughout the EU) is still under heavy critics, some universities even went so far to allow their students to gain the old engineer diploma instead of a "master of engineering" again.

 

[AnkorSVK]

Hmm looking on the ppl in this discusion so far im on eof the older one.

I hope this post will contain something usefull appart from a lot of cursing.

Im a this year graduate i got my title in September instead of June, you could say the main reasons were bigger scale changes probably coming from the Bologna-Process which Roflkopt3r already mentioned.
My biggest mistake was that i believed i as a student have also some rights not only obligations, well looking on it after some time its laughable how naive i was. Especialy when im more the paranoid one.
Another mistake was i didnt cheat unlike 80% on one lesson i wanted to do in the fair -way

So now i have a Bachelor degree in Electrical engineering (officialy), however i studied 3 years car-electronics . So due to the changes which should have assured the ability to get the degree done before start of the next school year under other made me loose one year because they postponed it a bit to much

Even if i try to enroll the next year im not sure if i pass the entrance exams cos my major doesnt exist as master and for other i miss some subjects

Now about the job hunt. Im unemployed now and get no money so looking for work or go for a job interview abroad isnt that easy either.

Most jobs in my field or fields i may be able to work in demand experience but no one wants to give the opportunity to get it.

Roflkopt3r form what i see the probability that they will look only for masters is lowering every month so unless your government gets qualified ppl from abroad you may be able to find a job or at last a trainee program as a bachelor quite hight.
From what i see the companies started to pull down the required education so that they may somehow be able to find ppl with work experience.


At the moment im waiting for some companies to reply but it not really that high probability for it to happen.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Roflkopt3r form what i see the probability that they will look only for masters is lowering every month so unless your government gets qualified ppl from abroad you may be able to find a job or at last a trainee program as a bachelor quite hight.
From what i see the companies started to pull down the required education so that they may somehow be able to find ppl with work experience.

Well, I'm not sure if that's gonna happen quite soon in Germany. It seems that some of the subjects are quite useless without Master. The newspaper featuring that article interviewed some people who started searching for a job after graduating as Bachelor, and most said that they only got really bad offers far under their qualification, because German companies didn't react to the changes at all. The companies however say that they like the new graduations - leaving the question why they offer so few jobs to people with bachelor.

However, right now I plan on studying until master anyways, but I didn't even start yet so there's a lot of time to decide that

 

[AnkorSVK]

Roflkopt3r >> well im gonna tell you looking on it from my point in my country.
Unless you lived under a rock the last 5 years you may have noticed the huge amount of industry most car (Kia, PSA) end also electronics (Sony-now Foxconn).
Its nice but the leading of the companies are smart asses who can make insane profit on paper but not in reality.

All the companies came here and the only thing they can do is stealing ppl with experience from companies which came a bit sooner (doesnt work like they would like). Also a nice idiocy is that they demand experience on such positions which didnt exist here before (no interest in working in neither Bachelor nor Master).
Another pissing fact despite the opportunity of taking graduates "haft-time" who would be paid by the unemployment office (tj 185e for 80 fours of work).
They would get an opportunity to train and test a new employee free for 6 months, but like i said no interest they want "complete" employees (education (doesnt matter i saw them taking someone with School leaving exam if he had some experience)+ experience).

So from my point if you get an opportunity to work with Bachelor grab it, you can finish you master by the work, it doesnt matter which field.
To tell about the stuff you may learn at the master 4-5th year its not that great at last not in my country equipment old (so old my father ma have learnt with some of it), or so small amount that there are several ppl on one-this goes especially for books never books almost not exostent or 1-2 pieces for 30,50+ students

 

[Queenofmuffins]

To be perfectly honest, I think it also depends in what her degree is in... For example, some jobfields need people more than others. If her degree is something like "Analysing Socio-Economics in Children's Literature", she's probably not going to find a job as quickly as someone with a degree in say, I.T.

Fact is, if she desperately needed a job she could have one- her local McDonalds is hiring, I bet. Not an ideal job but it's a job.
She can't sue her college for not being able to find her a job in her chosen field. Problem is, some kids have the "Uni is the answer to everything" mentality, and so they don't work any jobs at all and focus on their studies. Not ness. a bad thing, but then they are shocked to find themselves unemployed when they leave Uni because they essentially have zero job expierence and people aren't that keen on hiring them. Uni is a lot of work for what is essentially a piece of paper. ^^;

 

[Roflkopt3r]

To be perfectly honest, I think it also depends in what her degree is in... For example, some jobfields need people more than others. If her degree is something like "Analysing Socio-Economics in Children's Literature", she's probably not going to find a job as quickly as someone with a degree in say, I.T.

According to the quoted article:

She is seeking to recover $70,000 (£42,000) she spent on tuition to get her information technology degree.

$70,000? Oh right, it's quite expansive in the U.S. to study, isn't it? I heard that most students of medicine got an incredible pile of debts after graduating when they weren't wealthy before already.
Seems still to be not too hard in Germany with max. 500€/semester (depending on the federal state, some don't take any money -mainly those in eastern germany- and the others between 200 and 500€)

I'm curious, does a thing like Bafög (Federal Law on Support in Education - "Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz") exist in the U.S.? It's a law which gives people in certain ways of advanced education (such as attending a university) a maximum of ~590€/month, of which half is free and half is an interest-free credit. (Of course it has certain requirements to recieve it, depending on the personal capital and income - people who have more money don't get anything or less)

 

[cmertb]

Why is there a discussion of a court case based on a media report rather than the actual facts described in the filing? Many cases look ridiculous on the surface, but start making sense only when you read the actual court documents.

This particular case is probably all about the contractual obligations the university might or might not have had. And that depends mostly on what EXACTLY they promised. A promise under many circumstances would constitute at least a verbal contract. If you don't know these facts, you can't possibly discuss the merits of this case, much less ridicule the plaintiff.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

This particular case is probably all about the contractual obligations the university might or might not have had. And that depends mostly on what EXACTLY they promised. A promise under many circumstances would constitute at least a verbal contract. If you don't know these facts, you can't possibly discuss the merits of this case, much less ridicule the plaintiff.

There are some points which give a slight impression of why this is at least likely to be a stupid case, even though you might call that superficial as we cannot know the absolute exact situation:
1. How much help does she exactly expect for finding a job? Many people just go to the employment office, have a fifteen minute talk and know what they have to, it's not that hard to find basic information about how to apply properly.
2. How comes that it's so hard for her to find a job, although she graduated in IT? It seems relatively likely that she either wrote very few applications or very bad ones if she's so desperate which that situation. Or is the situation in the US that different? In Germany, the quota of IT graduates without a job is next to zero.
3. The university said that they provided the support they promised, which of course is not a proof though.

 

[M3J]

Or is the situation in the US that different? In Germany, the quota of IT graduates without a job is next to zero.

In the US, it's very hard to find a job due to the bad economy and companies moving out of the country and hiring workers in other countries due to the workers' cheapness. More oldfags are being fired, so it is pretty hard for newfags to find a job... decent job in their major anyway.

However, despite the guarantee the university may have made, the woman herself should know there's no 100% guarantee that she'll get a job. On what basis is she saying that they did not try hard enough? The fact that she doesn't have a job? To me, it looks like the family's trying to get out of paying the university. I'm not saying the university is innocent or completely innocent though.

However, universities are too freakin' overpriced anyway. We're basically paying over 10K for a degree or degrees that may never get us that good job we wanted or help us make enough to repay the debt.

 

[steelwingcrash1]

No I disagree, the ones who actually attain success are creative people and those who think outside the box.

Fcebook CEO was a college student, he created a social website and bam in less than ten years he is among the richest entrepreneurs.

Do you think he would attain something like that if he persued his studies ? I don't think so
My advice to you is to think outside the box, and do .

If we are referring to the general employee or worker, I have to completely agree with you that the real indicators of success are creativity and passion for one's work.

But, it seems we are dealing with the case of the fresh graduate in here who cannot find his first job.

As a fresh graduate...

1. What official credentials do you intend to show to your prospective employer? Let us take into account that you have no work experience yet. This is the worst question for most new graduates:

"Have you had any work experiences before?"

Of course, chances are, you do not have any real answers to this one. So the employer goes on with the next one:

"You're a fresh graduate, right? May I see your grades when you were in college?"

So, you oblige dutifully.

"Are you a laborious worker? Are you prompt in deadlines, official times, etc.?"

You answer a very proud "Yes."

The employer looks at your official records and chooses between the three options:

a. "Your performances in college were very astounding. I definitely think you will soon be an asset in this company."
b. "You had OK grades back then. Let's see you improve in this company."
c. or "You say you are a dedicated worker but why did that not reflect when you were in college? What happened?"

2. You can never impress your employee with glib and/or smooth talk. The employer will need evidences on what you claim your personality is. More likely, he will check your grades. Are you an efficient and respectful employee? He will soon do a background check and the like.

Thus, as a teacher, I believe that grades are highly important in seeking for better opportunities. I know that there are some people who did succeed in life just by being creative, but just as Rofl said, it's merely a game of chance for them.

 

[Queenofmuffins]

According to the quoted article:

Oh, whoops. Didn't see that there. My bad. ^^;

Still, I personally don't she's tried hard enough to find a job. Maybe she's looking for an 'ideal' one.
I know when my friend wanted to get work in I.T and found it difficult, he applied for a Tech bar job in telstra, worked in their stores for about four months then moved onto the actual I.T part of his job.

 

[blai]

Well, to continue the discussion that erupted in the first few posts when it comes to become an entrepreneur or continue with academical studies I would just like to add my two cents in the matter;

First of all, when it comes to academic studies I don't care about the system, the grades, or anything of that sort. I study because I want to learn, and I get pleased with the information I can learn, process and understand, rather than a letter on a paper saying "A, B, C" ect. I myself are building up a company with a classmate and if this succeeds fairly well then I'll just stick with Uni for the extra gov. money and because there are some courses I'm actually interested in. I don't care if I fail logistics because I have no intention whatsoever to work with it.

I must mention that I am studying Enterprising & Business Development - an education that is 50% academical, and 50% practical work (analysis and projects at existing businesses). This means that after my education I get my degree, and are encouraged to start my own business. However, they also encourage you to start your own business during your time at Uni. Especially if you have no money nor experience from it since building an enterprise is not something you can read about, but experience practical.

There's also the fact that since I'm studying EBD there's almost only future entrepreneurs in my class and a lot of them already running their own business(es) increase the probability for success since we can exchange ideas, help each other, and partner up if we want. This means that it's a lil' easier for EBD students to start their own business than it is for, for example, IR students.

So the argument that starting your business without any experience or money isn't just a gamble. Of course it's more difficult if you aren't prepared for the possible situations and scenarios that you will encounter. But, that is something you can learn on the internet or by reading literature.

I would never tell any student, or anyone at all for that matter, to only read literature and theoretics because that removes a person's sense of creativity. Of course you need guidelines and standards, as well as basic rules, but if you are unable to think out of the box and be creative, then you won't manage a career no matter what you do.

I also have a feeling that my post is quite off topic, but I don't care.

 

[Queenofmuffins]

Off topic but..

Blai, when you become a rich and successful buisiness man, I request- nay, demand- a pair of solid gold pants. :3

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

The days of the traditional means of learning or finding work are over, we should be free to choose whatever we want to do and make cash out of it.

 

[M3J]

The days of the traditional means of learning or finding work are over, we should be free to choose whatever we want to do and make cash out of it.

The problem is, you won't likely make cash or much revenue because you'll get competition. Traditional means of learning is still valuable because you can make mistakes without being affected badly, if at all. Learning firsthand is the best, in my opinion, but when you make mistakes (and you will), then what will be the consequences?

Yes, we should be free to choose whatever we want to and make cash out of it, but it doesn't really work that way. We need to choose smartly, not choose what we desire.

Example: We desire to start up a business that repairs computers. Good! Entrepreneurship is the backbone of any free or "free" economy! The problem is, there are at least two businesses that repair computers. One thing we need to ask ourselves is: what sets me apart from my competition? If you can't answer that, then you're likely to fail because customers won't want to choose you when they can have something better for cheaper. You'd have few choices: change nothing and keep going, change some things about your business, give it a complete overhaul, or give it up and find work since that's likely to be easier, especially if you can't get any good ideas. Obviously there can be more options, but these would be common choices.

The days of traditional learning and finding work will never be over, in my opinion... ever. If anything, their useful will diminish, but they won't become obsolete. I do wonder if this lady expected work to be 100% guaranteed because that's just impossible. If she did try entrepreneurship, she'd have probably succeeded, but it really depends, I guess.