Current V and Luslec vs Traumerei

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

--It seems current V has momentarily put a weakened traumerie down and Luclec was able to blind urek in his spell for some time.

--Can these two working together can beat full power Traumerei? If not the version of Traumerei before he transformed and used 3D disconnection?

 

[Jackjohsnon]

I think Luslec spells won't be useful due to swr and disconnection, but Vaam should beat Traumerei.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Traumerei most likely dies.

I'm not quite sure how strong the current Vaam is exactly, other than he should be a threat to FHs like Traumerei. Luslec is there with his annoying spells, and he hasn't shown us his limit yet. I think Traumerei could counter spells well with SW and Disconnection, but on a 1v2 it's going to be tough.

If he had Leviathan with him, I could perhaps be more dubious about the outcome, but with what we've seen so far, I'm betting on Vaam and Luslec.

 

[maverickframe_19]

Lol Easy win for the Grace family. It's not even a debate anymore for me.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

I'm changing my position about this match up after last chapter. I think Traumerei wins now.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

I'm changing my position about this match up after last chapter. I think Traumerei wins now.

What changed?

 

[zoradante1]

What changed?

Gustang was able to block V's attack clearly without blossom's flame, on the other hand Rei is superior to Gustang without blossom's flame, so i would say its not possible for Luslec and current V to beat Rei.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

Gustang was able to block V's attack clearly without blossom's flame, on the other hand Rei is superior to Gustang without blossom's flame, so i would say its not possible for Luslec and current V to beat Rei.

Hmm. That is a point but we do not know the limits of current V's strength. Luslec can create openings with spells so that V can land lethal attacks.

 

[zoradante1]

Hmm. That is a point but we do not know the limits of current V's strength. Luslec can create openings with spells so that V can land lethal attacks.

all we know is that he was going to get captured by Urek as soon as the chase began if not for Luslec, i am putting him below Luslec for now, by feats. Also disconnection could easily sever Luslec's spells, not even Urek can destroy disconnection properly, much less Luslec.

 

[Lord V returned]

Gustang was able to block V's attack clearly without blossom's flame, on the other hand Rei is superior to Gustang without blossom's flame, so i would say its not possible for Luslec and current V to beat Rei.

all we know is that he was going to get captured by Urek as soon as the chase began if not for Luslec, i am putting him below Luslec for now, by feats. Also disconnection could easily sever Luslec's spells, not even Urek can destroy disconnection properly, much less Luslec.

I think there's too much being read into this. I saw on the discord too that some of the guys there think that V is a "fraud" because Gustang could block his attack etc. Here are some of the obvious things to point out though.

Yes Gustang used the same shield against Traumerei before, however, that massive beast empowered by souls used a blast on Gustang he used that shield and it wasn't destroyed. Traumerei then empowered those "disconnects" he had all over the space even more, it even got a "name" to it "Spirit of Evil" had lightning or whatever in it, it was with THAT attack that Traumerei broke Gustang's shield. So I think V attacking with some made up remote shinsu attack with no name and then ending up making a crack in Gustang's shield with that body of a boy not yet in their league is not all that bad.

So I don't get what all this "He blocked the attack without Blossom's flame" is about. Gustang literally had to use that flame on a much more powerful named attack, definitely not some random remote unnamed technique V used.

As for disconnect, going by the panels the only thing we can conclude is that V also can eliminate disconnect, he did so just by awakening. We literally saw the disconnect beneath Bam's feet. It was at that moment that V took over control and after that Endorsi asked "What happened?" to which Khun replied "The attack from a moment ago...disappeared?"

If anything, that alone is a better feat on panel than anything Gustang showed against Disconnect until he used Blossom's flame.

V showed some great feats since he woke up, especially in the disadvantageous position he was in. He knocked out a family head with 1 hit and it doesn't matter if you say it was a sneak or not, it's a family head. Having his attacks stopped by Gustang and Urek well, it's what it is. He can only improve from here, but just because traumerei is alive thanks to gustang and urek, doesn't mean that V is suddenly a "fraud"

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

I think there's too much being read into this. I saw on the discord too that some of the guys there think that V is a "fraud" because Gustang could block his attack etc. Here are some of the obvious things to point out though.

Yes Gustang used the same shield against Traumerei before, however, that massive beast empowered by souls used a blast on Gustang he used that shield and it wasn't destroyed. Traumerei then empowered those "disconnects" he had all over the space even more, it even got a "name" to it "Spirit of Evil" had lightning or whatever in it, it was with THAT attack that Traumerei broke Gustang's shield. So I think V attacking with some made up remote shinsu attack with no name and then ending up making a crack in Gustang's shield with that body of a boy not yet in their league is not all that bad.

So I don't get what all this "He blocked the attack without Blossom's flame" is about. Gustang literally had to use that flame on a much more powerful named attack, definitely not some random remote unnamed technique V used.

As for disconnect, going by the panels the only thing we can conclude is that V also can eliminate disconnect, he did so just by awakening. We literally saw the disconnect beneath Bam's feet. It was at that moment that V took over control and after that Endorsi asked "What happened?" to which Khun replied "The attack from a moment ago...disappeared?"

If anything, that alone is a better feat on panel than anything Gustang showed against Disconnect until he used Blossom's flame.

V showed some great feats since he woke up, especially in the disadvantageous position he was in. He knocked out a family head with 1 hit and it doesn't matter if you say it was a sneak or not, it's a family head. Having his attacks stopped by Gustang and Urek well, it's what it is. He can only improve from here, but just because traumerei is alive thanks to gustang and urek, doesn't mean that V is suddenly a "fraud"

Oh yeah it seemed V's presence was enough to negate the effects of disconnection. Also people are underestimating what luslec can do. We haven't see luslec go all out and he already successfully has been able to evade/block someone like urek 3 times.

 

[Lord V returned]

Oh yeah it seemed V's presence was enough to negate the effects of disconnection. Also people are underestimating what luslec can do. We haven't see luslec go all out and he already successfully has been able to evade/block someone like urek 3 times.

Yeah, I still see people go on about Luslec is not FH level so it doesn't matter etc. So far the man has just had wins, let's be real.

1. Luslec made Urek bleed while holding back, and put him on back foot with hand 2 hand combat. - Win.
2. Luslec could tank Urek's attacks and had no damage on his body - Win.
3. Luslec is faster than Urek in base mode since Urek had to reinforce his body to 15% to keep up with Luslec - Win.
4. Luslec managed to capture Urek in a separate space to interfere with him, not once, but 3 times! - Win.
5. Urek couldn't "save" Bam because of Luslec - Win
6. Urek couldn't get to revolution(his primary target) because of Luslec - Win.


The man is raining wins like nothing and we still haven't seen him shine at full power yet. He's a beast. Will be a good partner to V in this upcoming fight.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

1. Luslec made Urek bleed while holding back, and put him on back foot with hand 2 hand combat. - Win.

Straight up got kicked away cause Urek thought he was too easy to the point he thought he was holding back and Luslec asked him if he was joking with that assumption?

Really?

2. Luslec could tank Urek's attacks and had no damage on his body - Win.

Got his torso blown out, funniest guy ngl.

3. Luslec is faster than Urek in base mode since Urek had to reinforce his body to 15% to keep up with Luslec - Win.

Faster than base Urek, I'm sorry but when did we see Urek enter full body reinforcement?

Luslec even had full body reinforcement plus dark change mode and couldn't keep up with 15% shinsoo reinforcement speed, far below the base Urek you're talking about so where is he?

Alo conveniently forgetting Luslec factually cannot track Ureks speed at 15% shinsoo boost even with many amps, dude got straight blitzed to oblivion.

4. Luslec managed to capture Urek in a separate space to interfere with him, not once, but 3 times! - Win.

Running away, he cannot factually capture Urek.

5. Urek couldn't "save" Bam because of Luslec - Win
6. Urek couldn't get to revolution(his primary target) because of Luslec - Win.

Running away again, even with the two on one advantage against Urek Luslec flat out said that he and V should run away from him, I swear you conveniently forget this part.

Also Urek stopped Revos, the order was to stop their inference not kill em, that was all him and not part of his mission.

They ran away and couldn't benefit from the exploiting the weakened family heads.

 

[Lord V returned]

Straight up got kicked away cause Urek thought he was too easy to the point he thought he was holding back and Luslec asked him if he was joking with that assumption?

Really?

Yes. After all, even Urek acknowledged that Luslec wasn't trying as hard as he did before, regardless of what Luslec said. It's been done many times in this story. It's lame yes, but Siu likes to do it where someone claims to "give it their all" but they clearly aren't, especially when it comes to Bam.

Got his torso blown out, funniest guy ngl.

No he didn't. I think I know exactly which panel it is you're talking about and nope...He didn't get his "torse blown out". It should be easy enough for you to go confirm. Chapter 599 just go to the bottom of the page, it was a few panels before the end right? Urek reinforced himself to 25% and blitzed Luslec, there is a hole in his shadow clothing that he had, not in his torso. I can't recall seeing any blood on that panel that would imply he got injured by it, in fact I recall looking close enough to notice it's literally just his clothing not his torso.

Faster than base Urek, I'm sorry but when did we see Urek enter full body reinforcement?

After Urek got blitzed by Luslec(Appearing behind him), he reinforced himself with "10%", which wasn't enough since he got blitzed again, and again he reinforced himself to "15%" which was enough for him to at least make a kick to Luslec's head, to which he commented that FUG must have a hard head, that kick would have taken the head off of anyone else etc.

Are we coping now by suggesting that because it says "Shinsu reinforcement" that it somehow reinforces what exactly and not the whole body because it didn't say "body reinforcement".

But let's play your cope game. If I recall correctly it literally showed his feet/legs with the reinforcement. So did he reinforce his legs? And if so why would he do that if he's so fast? Perhaps it was to imply that he's doing it to make himself even faster? Just my guess...

Luslec even had full body reinforcement plus dark change mode and couldn't keep up with 15% shinsoo reinforcement speed, far below the base Urek you're talking about so where is he?

ok so the cope goes that anyone including Luslec would automatically always be on full body reinforcement unless shown differently, but urek would always be in base mode unless shown differently? That's not even true for other characters. Siu clearly shows when a reinforcement takes place, like how Jinsung reinforced himself to make his pierce attack to blitz Maschenny when she attacked at his floor. But for the sake of cope we must accept that Luslec is in full body reinforcement because he made a dark twist? lol

Alo conveniently forgetting Luslec factually cannot track Ureks speed at 15% shinsoo boost even with many amps, dude got straight blitzed to oblivion.

Also false. Urek managed to land a shot on Luslec's head with a kick after goign 15% reinforcement, but he was never so fast that Luslec couldn't keep up. During that period they brawled with each other . Right after Urek's kick landed he went in to attack and Luslec casually bent backwards to dodge it, they then had their hand to hand fight where Urek didn't land any punches but Luslec managed to land punches between Urek's constant defensive poses, he managed to use a piercing technique on his ribs, he managed to step on his shoes, he even gave him a 1inch punch. Where was he being blitzed? You're confusing Urek's 25% reinforcement at the end with his 15% reinforcement that did nothing.

Running away, he cannot factually capture Urek.

Urek was "Battle field removed" 3 times, a "BFR" is a win. Accept it.

Running away again, even with the two on one advantage against Urek Luslec flat out said that he and V should run away from him, I swear you conveniently forget this part.

Yes, Luslec suggested that they avoid Urek for now, so what? Urek couldn't accomplish what he wanted, that's a win.

Also Urek stopped Revos, the order was to stop their inference not kill em, that was all him and not part of his mission.

Urek himself told Luslec that he is there to fight Revolution. Urek referred to them as his "prey" that he came to hunt. He failed in it.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

Yes. After all, even Urek acknowledged that Luslec wasn't trying as hard as he did before, regardless of what Luslec said. It's been done many times in this story. It's lame yes, but Siu likes to do it where someone claims to "give it their all" but they clearly aren't, especially when it comes to Bam.

Convenient ngl, so it's you saying Luslec was the one holding back even though he flat out refutes the statement.

Very convenient.

Urek overestimating an enemy isn't new, he did the same thing with Karaka and Hell Joe, heck he even did it with Baam.

No he didn't. I think I know exactly which panel it is you're talking about and nope...He didn't get his "torse blown out". It should be easy enough for you to go confirm. Chapter 599 just go to the bottom of the page, it was a few panels before the end right? Urek reinforced himself to 25% and blitzed Luslec, there is a hole in his shadow clothing that he had, not in his torso. I can't recall seeing any blood on that panel that would imply he got injured by it, in fact I recall looking close enough to notice it's literally just his clothing not his torso.

Yup, flat out his torso and even had Urek tell him that it was on purpose he didn't aim to kill him yet, aka blow his head off.

Urek was "Battle field removed" 3 times, a "BFR" is a win. Accept it.

Cannot conveniently remove Urek from the battlefield when he was still factually on it, on that very same floor and on that very same spot.

Do you even know what BFR is?

Take Kaguya for example from Naruto, her eyes are the purest example of BFR.

After Urek got blitzed by Luslec(Appearing behind him), he reinforced himself with "10%", which wasn't enough since he got blitzed again, and again he reinforced himself to "15%" which was enough for him to at least make a kick to Luslec's head, to which he commented that FUG must have a hard head, that kick would have taken the head off of anyone else etc.

Are we coping now by suggesting that because it says "Shinsu reinforcement" that it somehow reinforces what exactly and not the whole body because it didn't say "body reinforcement".

But let's play your cope game. If I recall correctly it literally showed his feet/legs with the reinforcement. So did he reinforce his legs? And if so why would he do that if he's so fast? Perhaps it was to imply that he's doing it to make himself even faster? Just my guess...

Funny, Luslec making an illusion is not blitzing Urek, that's the dumbest shit I ever heard.

ok so the cope goes that anyone including Luslec would automatically always be on full body reinforcement unless shown differently, but urek would always be in base mode unless shown differently? That's not even true for other characters. Siu clearly shows when a reinforcement takes place, like how Jinsung reinforced himself to make his pierce attack to blitz Maschenny when she attacked at his floor. But for the sake of cope we must accept that Luslec is in full body reinforcement because he made a dark twist? lol

Remind me again apart from Urek who else in this tower has been shown able to break down fullbody reinforcement into sublevels?

Cause far as I remember, fullbody reinforcement is the automatic base for everybody in the tower whenever they do shinsoo reinforcement, there's no 1% to 100% reinforcement then fullbody.

So tell me again, who apart from Urek broke it down?

Also fucking LOL, conveniently trying to say Luslec amping himself far beyond full body reinforcement with dark change, aka superior form isn't supposed to mean he's stronger than full body reinforcement.

Yes, Luslec suggested that they avoid Urek for now, so what? Urek couldn't accomplish what he wanted, that's a win.

Yeah, aka they ran away even with the two on one advantage.

The fact this is being twisted as a win is funny, someone like Mahito or Usopp or even Buggy would be the absolute GOATs considering they also run away fast when shit gets real.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

What changed?

Gustang's line in this chapter kind of give me an impression that V is not there with the FH yet. Like, If he keeps growing in power, he will be dangerous. His last attack output didn't look better than Traumerei's malicious spirit lasers. While I agree Vaam can do more than he showed, I think he would get outclassed kind of easy If the fight prolonged.

Let's just say my opinion is like this:

FH+
V (Prime)

FH
Traumerei, Gustang

FH-
Vaam

And while Luslec is an annoying opponent, especially supporting a stronger person, I think Traumerei counters him with SWR and Disconnection.

 

[maverickframe_19]

V managed to crack a shield in Baam's body who was just seen getting manhandled by Dumas, a fragment/writing of Gustang's power. Gustang then and there said, if he's allowed to grow which very clearly he will, the man named V will be dangerous. It was also an attack Urek couldn't do anything about or was fast enough to react (which IMO he should be able to do, but it's whatever now)

Gustang was also able to predict because he climbed with V and has seen his whole arsenal. Once V gets the hang of Bam's irregular body and its capabilities. It's OVER for all the 10 Frauds.
The people calling V fraud are frauds themselves and will refuse to look at the context and evidence provided to them. So I wouldn't mind their opinion, they are entitled to it. But they are just refusing to accept the reality because in their mind they already hate V.

 

[Lord V returned]

Convenient ngl, so it's you saying Luslec was the one holding back even though he flat out refutes the statement.

Very convenient.

Urek overestimating an enemy isn't new, he did the same thing with Karaka and Hell Joe, heck he even did it with Baam.

Yes, it's obvious he was. You're just twisting what happened. Urek clearly could tell that Luslec wasn't fighting with all he has, he even got offended at the idea that Luslec was holding back against him Urek Mazino he then goes on to complain that if Luslec isn't going to fight him seriously that he won't waste another second on the fight etc. Urek then uses 30% and gets ready to use fist of gorgones. Luslec then tells him "You think I'm not trying my hardest? I'm offended. Of course, neither of us wants to use up too much of our energy here. But I'm serious now. I want nothing more than to wipe that smug look off your face"

Nowhere there does luslec admit he is going all out, he's bantering like he's done many times before and even then he clearly states that just like Urek he's not planning on using too much of his energy aka Not going all out... Regardless of his statement that he is serious about wiping Urek's smug look off of his face. There was no reason for him to go all out in that moment in the first place as the seeds of his attack has already been planted the moment Urek blitzed and destroyed his flower in the previous chapter. Why take the chance to tire himself out even more while he still has to wait for it to spread among the shinsu? Makes no sense.

Yup, flat out his torso and even had Urek tell him that it was on purpose he didn't aim to kill him yet, aka blow his head off.

The fact remains he didn't blow a hole in his torso. You can even see it on that very same panel. The "hole" is through the shadow robe he has, not his torso. If you think it's his torso then you need to get your eyes tested. Open the panel again and look. The "hole" is literally below Luslec's left arm and to the right of his torso as we see the panel. You can clearly see the "hole" is to the right of his left chest and left side of his body, also below his arm, you can even see where the arm pit would be. He literally didn't blow a hole through his torso.

Funny, Luslec making an illusion is not blitzing Urek, that's the dumbest shit I ever heard.

Huh? He didn't make an illusion. He literally blitzed behind Urek, we even see the same drawing style when V blitzed behind Traumerei. Or are you suggesting that the same art style of Urek dodging the attack to the right and then using his left fist to attack was an illusion too? You really only see what you want to see right?

Remind me again apart from Urek who else in this tower has been shown able to break down fullbody reinforcement into sublevels?

Cause far as I remember, fullbody reinforcement is the automatic base for everybody in the tower whenever they do shinsoo reinforcement, there's no 1% to 100% reinforcement then fullbody.

So tell me again, who apart from Urek broke it down?

Also fucking LOL, conveniently trying to say Luslec amping himself far beyond full body reinforcement with dark change, aka superior form isn't supposed to mean he's stronger than full body reinforcement.

Wrong. The automatic "base" for everyone is to not be reinforced. They are not reinforced until they specifically are shown to be reinforced.

Yeah, aka they ran away even with the two on one advantage.

The fact this is being twisted as a win is funny, someone like Mahito or Usopp or even Buggy would be the absolute GOATs considering they also run away fast when shit gets real.

The fact you would even argue that your irregular "champion" is the goat because a child and a tower born "ran" away is what's truly funny. I have no issue with the 2 of them calculating their obvious disadvantage in a battlefield where they are vastly outnumbered by 3 irregulars and 2 massive armies that could turn on them at any moment if they see their Family Heads aren't fighting each other anymore but fighting FUG. A tactical retreat for V to regain power, heal that body a bit etc is the most obvious choice.

But you're so desperate for an Urek win that you'll take anything. There take it, your champion managed to make an injured exhausted child and a tower born "run away". All hail Urek the great.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

Yes, it's obvious he was. You're just twisting what happened. Urek clearly could tell that Luslec wasn't fighting with all he has, he even got offended at the idea that Luslec was holding back against him Urek Mazino he then goes on to complain that if Luslec isn't going to fight him seriously that he won't waste another second on the fight etc. Urek then uses 30% and gets ready to use fist of gorgones. Luslec then tells him "You think I'm not trying my hardest? I'm offended. Of course, neither of us wants to use up too much of our energy here. But I'm serious now. I want nothing more than to wipe that smug look off your face"

Nowhere there does luslec admit he is going all out, he's bantering like he's done many times before and even then he clearly states that just like Urek he's not planning on using too much of his energy aka Not going all out... Regardless of his statement that he is serious about wiping Urek's smug look off of his face. There was no reason for him to go all out in that moment in the first place as the seeds of his attack has already been planted the moment Urek blitzed and destroyed his flower in the previous chapter. Why take the chance to tire himself out even more while he still has to wait for it to spread among the shinsu? Makes no sense.

Indeed, very convenient.

So it's now Luslec countering the statement by asking if Urek was joking with that assumption is now supposed to mean Luslec was holding back and not Urek overestimating his enemy again.

You conveniently forgot the part where Urek has done this since day 1 when we first met him, overestimated Karaka, Hell Joe and even the administrator fragment.

But Luslec is now the exception, fucking LOL.

The fact remains he didn't blow a hole in his torso. You can even see it on that very same panel. The "hole" is through the shadow robe he has, not his torso. If you think it's his torso then you need to get your eyes tested. Open the panel again and look. The "hole" is literally below Luslec's left arm and to the right of his torso as we see the panel. You can clearly see the "hole" is to the right of his left chest and left side of his body, also below his arm, you can even see where the arm pit would be. He literally didn't blow a hole through his torso.

Dude, can clearly see the curve eating into his body from the side.

Wrong. The automatic "base" for everyone is to not be reinforced until they specifically are shown to be reinforced.

Are you lost?

By the way you didn't answer the question, I asked who here in the tower broke down reinforcement into sub-levels.

Cause everytime we see peoples reinforcement it's instantly just fullbody, so who was able to break it into 1% to 100%?

You were arguing Luslec wasn't reinforced right?

Huh? He didn't make an illusion. He literally blitzed behind Urek, we even see the same drawing style when V blitzed behind Traumerei. Or are you suggesting that the same art style of Urek dodging the attack to the right and then using his left fist to attack was an illusion too? You really only see what you want to see right?

Yeah, you really need your eyes checked.

Urek said he was casting a spell, it's not Luslec moving his physical body through pure speed.

He literally breaks himself down into multiple petals to reconfigure behind Urek, aka the spell.

V and Luslec panels looked absolutely nothing alike, clear speed lines versus wavy zigzag illusion lines, the most obvious thing in a manhwa.

The fact you would even argue that your irregular "champion" is the goat because a child and a tower born "ran" away is what's truly funny. I have no issue with the 2 of them calculating their obvious disadvantage in a battlefield where they are vastly outnumbered by 3 irregulars and 2 massive armies that could turn on them at any moment if they see their Family Heads aren't fighting each other anymore but fighting FUG. A tactical retreat for V to regain power, heal that body a bit etc is the most obvious choice.

But you're so desperate for an Urek win that you'll take anything. There take it, your champion managed to make an injured exhausted child and a tower born "run away". All hail Urek the great.

Ah, so it's a child now all of a sudden and not V who flat out run away cause he couldn't cut it.

And now it's just a towerborn all of sudden and not the god Luslec who can beat a FH huh.

Fucking LOL, and you also bring the army of fodder who can't affect shit between a FH level being battle and can't interfere in the first place, you're truly bringing out all the stops just to defend flat out running away from someone cause you're scared of em.

And you're telling me to cope? Fucking hell

 

[XXGenesis]

Team Easy.

V’s surprise attack left a FP but somewhat exhausted Tram in critical!

With Support from Luslec’s spells, I don’t see V having much of a problem. We already saw he did something about 3D Disconnetion already; So Yea Team wins. This time Tram would die from the Zero Style .

As we all see, Tram really would have died 3 times over if not for Urek & Gustang saving him.