Current Vaam in Base vs Adori

Demonspeed

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With or without contract, she isn't at their level.

Any opinion depends on whether or not you believe Adori is a threat to a Family Head. Because V. even in his weakened state, is a threat.
V is a threat, but not because he could defeat one in a fight. It's because of who he is. Same way Baam, even when he was at his weakest was a threat because of his potential. With V it's more apparent because he already has the power, but isn't used to his vessel.
 

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With or without contract, she isn't at their level.



V is a threat, but not because he could defeat one in a fight. It's because of who he is. Same way Baam, even when he was at his weakest was a threat because of his potential. With V it's more apparent because he already has the power, but isn't used to his vessel.
V can deal a fatal blow in a suprise attack against a very weakened Traumerei. So, he is basically a threat in this situation. Would Adori be capable of doing the same against the same Traumerei who lost his contract?
 

Demonspeed

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V can deal a fatal blow in a suprise attack against a very weakened Traumerei. So, he is basically a threat in this situation. Would Adori be capable of doing the same against the same Traumerei who lost his contract?
Well, the thread is about a one on one. Sure, he can be a threat with surprise attacks and stuff but in a one on one one against any FH he loses for sure. That's not the case if his opponent is Adori.
 

arrowofsky

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Vaam wins. Additionally, though,

Many people seem to miss several important caveats.
Yeah, immortality contract can still let FHs survive after 'anything', but that is not the whole point of being a threat.

1-] FH has families. Even though at minimum, they have some care, to their descendants or regents via giving shinheuhs, items, whatnot, as well. If someone waltz in and one shot not only Proust but also your ship, even if you have the immortality contract that is still bad. Gustang may not care much about his creations or Proust but he still tries to manage a family, and as for Traumerei, we have seen that he at least cared about Kirin, Robadon. In short, you can be a threat by just tremendously messing up with your family there. So, Adori is a threat.

2-] At least for once, Traumerei complained Gustang about how he was ditched because after some point in their climb, they decided to care only about the relationships among them (I believe after V-Arlene separation) while Gustang apparently a psycho and did not. Gustang is ditched and all already, so Adori attacking Po Bidau does not mean much, but any person that can have a detrimental impact on the relationships between FHs is a threat. Remember Ha Yuri Zahard's "bad" treatment after the last station and Ha's reaction. Yuri is not a super high ranker, not really super above anyone, but terribly important as she may result in a serious conflict between FHs (even without she himself trying to sow a one). So, Yuri is a threat, and probably V is a threat because of this, too.

3-] As long as Urek does not take action against FHs, FHs themselves did not seem to do much, like Gustang just talking to him. Comparatively weaker and so very most probably a regular Luslec, (hence no hack against immortality) was more in their eyes. Of course, only Luslec himself was not the threat here, whether or not he can be a nuisance, potential Arlene and real V and Baam influences makes Luslec more than what he can individually muster. One minute detail, Arie Hon was a recluse at the time of Ameuz's departure, did not greet Eduan and Eduan jokingly attacked him etc, but he went out and told Luslec to ask about Arlene. Also, a reread of FoD had an interesting part where Urek explains how he stole Red Thryssa and Hell Joe separator injection liquid from a F.U.G. base. Urek's not storming but stealing is one thing, F.U.G. making/having such things another. So, Luslec is a threat.

It saddens me that we talk about only arm wrestling here and there.
 

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Well, the thread is about a one on one. Sure, he can be a threat with surprise attacks and stuff but in a one on one one against any FH he loses for sure. That's not the case if his opponent is Adori.
I get It. But, If you believe Adori could repeat the feat of Vaam, then It would be likely her offensive power would be at least close to Vaam's. If she can't, then she is fodder against him.
 

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I was more thinking about how Baam is using Orb + Shinwonryu. I don't believe that V uses a physical Orb, but I think he uses Shinsoo Orb + Shinwonryu and absorbs it.
Hmmm, my guess would still be that that's not something an orb can do but there's definitely wiggle room due to the orb being a shinsoo construct rather than a physical object (say, bam did a trick against data zahard where he sort of dispersed it and then remade it to defend himself, it's not something a physical orb could do probably). Its also worth noting that an orb does not have the functionality of a bang, it's simply meant to maximize shinsoo control. I think it's wrong to think of it as a bang substitute.
 
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