Discussion Death vs Annihilation according to A.I.

[Tristan]

So I asked ChatGPT this question:

Which concept is more grave and devastating , Death or Annihilation?

And here's how it answered:

The distinction between death and annihilation carries profound weight, both in its philosophical underpinnings and in its moral implications. Let us consider them in turn.

Death
Death, in its simplest form, is the cessation of life. For many, it is grievous because it severs the ties between the self and the world, ending all earthly experience. However, death does not necessarily entail the obliteration of one’s essence or legacy. In religious or philosophical systems that allow for the immortality of the soul, reincarnation, or even remembrance, death is not the ultimate end but a transition or transformation. Hence, while death can be mourned as the departure of the familiar, it retains the possibility of continuity in some form.

Annihilation
Annihilation, on the other hand, suggests absolute destruction—obliterating not merely the body but all trace, memory, or continuation of the being. It denies the possibility of persistence, whether spiritual, mental, or historical. To be annihilated is to be rendered as though one never existed, a notion far more devastating to those who treasure the permanence of identity, legacy, or cosmic significance.

Comparison
Death may be viewed as grievous primarily for those who remain, as they suffer the pangs of loss. Annihilation, however, strikes at the root of the self’s very meaning, threatening both existence and remembrance. If death is a closing of a book, annihilation is the burning of the manuscript. It erases not only the story but the very possibility of its retelling. Thus, annihilation seems the graver of the two, for it confronts us with the terror of complete and utter negation—a true void beyond consolation.

In sum, while death pains by its finality, annihilation devastates by its obliteration of all being, memory, and significance.

Then I asked Gemini 1.5 Pro the same question, and here's the answer it gave:

Annihilation is generally considered a more grave and devastating concept than death. Here's why:

• Death: While deeply sorrowful and impactful, death generally refers to the cessation of life for an individual. The body decomposes, but the individual's impact on the world (memories, accomplishments, relationships) can remain. Some cultures and religions even believe in an afterlife, offering comfort and a sense of continuation.
• Annihilation: Annihilation implies complete and utter eradication. It's not just the end of life, but the erasure of existence itself. Every trace of the individual or even an entire civilization, species, or universe – memories, achievements, physical matter – would be completely and irreversibly gone as if they never existed. There is no legacy, no impact, no continuation of any kind. It represents absolute nothingness.

Think of it this way:

• Death is like blowing out a candle. The flame is gone, but the wax remains. The candle existed, and evidence of it remains.
• Annihilation is like vaporizing the candle completely. No wax, no wick, no smoke, no memory of the candle ever having been there.

Therefore, the concept of annihilation is generally considered more terrifying and devastating due to its totality and irreversibility. It represents the absolute end, with no possibility of remembrance or continuation in any form.
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So, what do you think about this guys? Do you agree with their answers or not?

 

[Demonspeed]

You gave me an idea and I copy pasted Percival and Tristan's abilities which were on the wiki:

The danger level of Percival and Tristan's powers depends on context, but here's a comparative analysis of their abilities, focusing on potential destructiveness, versatility, and control:


Tristan’s Powers: The Hybrid Edge

Tristan's powers combine Goddess and Demon lineages, giving him access to:

1. Ark: Pure, destructive light energy that disintegrates almost anything, particularly effective against Demons and Vampires.
2. Hellblaze: Inextinguishable black flames, a destructive force capable of overwhelming most foes.
3. Annihilation: A light-dark hybrid explosion that ignores resistance and durability, erasing matter outright.
4. Full Counter: Reflects magic attacks, often magnified in power.
5. Physical Augmentation: Enhanced strength and durability, especially with his Demonic powers.

Danger Factors:

• Raw Power: His ability to combine Ark and Hellblaze makes him a force of destruction on a grand scale.
• AoE Potential: Abilities like Annihilation can erase large areas without regard to magical or physical defenses.
• Risk of Loss of Control: Tristan admits that his Demonic power can overwhelm him, making him a potential threat to allies if he succumbs to it.

Percival’s Powers: The Hopeful Catalyst

Percival's powers derive from Life Spirits, emphasizing versatility and emotional ties:

1. Hope Aura: Enhances allies' strength and provides immense healing, including resurrection (with limitations).
2. Magic Golems: Clones with offensive, defensive, and healing capabilities, as well as self-destruction.
3. Imaginative Constructs: Adaptable offensive and defensive creations.
4. Mummification: A despair-driven ability that instantly reduces living beings to lifeless husks.
5. Flight and Support: Combines mobility and support-oriented magic for adaptability.

Danger Factors:

• Emotional Volatility: While hope empowers him, despair unlocks Mummification, an uncontrollable and deadly ability that affects allies and enemies indiscriminately.
• Spread of Despair: Percival’s despair-based powers, particularly Mummification, could trigger mass casualties, especially if unchecked in moments of emotional turmoil.

Which Is More Dangerous?
Raw Destruction: Tristan

• Tristan’s Annihilation and Hellblaze give him unparalleled destructive capabilities, with the potential to obliterate cities or powerful enemies in seconds.
• His powers are inherently destructive, giving him an edge in sheer damage output.

Collateral Risk: Percival

• Percival’s Mummification, triggered by despair, could pose a widespread, uncontrollable threat. Unlike Tristan’s powers, which he can aim or contain to a degree, Mummification risks affecting allies and innocents without prejudice.
• His reliance on emotions makes him unpredictable, amplifying the danger in volatile situations.

Versatility: Percival

• Percival’s ability to heal, resurrect, and create constructs or golems makes him adaptable in various scenarios. While this doesn’t directly increase his destructiveness, it does make him harder to defeat or outmaneuver.

Control: Tristan

• Tristan has trained to master his abilities over time, even his volatile Demonic power. While he acknowledges a risk of losing control, his hybrid nature gives him an inherent understanding of balancing light and dark forces.
• Percival, by contrast, is more susceptible to emotional triggers, meaning his greatest danger lies in his lack of control.

Final Verdict: Tristan is more dangerous in raw destructive power, but Percival poses a greater unpredictable threat.

• In controlled scenarios, Tristan’s abilities are deadlier and more straightforwardly destructive.
• In emotionally charged or chaotic situations, Percival’s despair-based powers, particularly Mummification, could cause catastrophic collateral damage, potentially surpassing Tristan in overall danger.

 

[Tristan]

Nice job @Demonspeed ... Ask it now about who possesses greater potential!

 

[Demonspeed]

~~~~

Both Tristan and Percival possess immense potential, but their paths to greatness and ceilings of power differ due to their heritage, nature of abilities, and growth potential. Let’s break this down:


Tristan’s Potential

Tristan is a unique hybrid of the Goddess and Demon clans, inheriting some of the most powerful traits from each lineage:

1. Inherited Lineage and Abilities

• Demon Powers: His access to Hellblaze, Dark Magic, and incredible physical prowess aligns with the top-tier abilities of the Demon Clan, rivaling his father, Meliodas.
• Goddess Powers: Ark and the power of Divine Light give him unmatched effectiveness against creatures of darkness.
• Annihilation: A hybrid power that cancels out both light and dark forces to create a devastating explosion, symbolizing his ability to transcend the limits of both clans.

2. Experience and Growth

• Mastery Over Time: Tristan has steadily gained control over abilities like Full Counter, which initially operated at half power but now matches his father’s mastery.
• Synergy Potential: His ability to combine light and dark suggests limitless growth, potentially giving him access to unique hybrid abilities that surpass the raw power of either clan.

3. Celestial and Demonic Nature

• As a hybrid, Tristan has an unprecedented capacity to bridge both worlds, potentially mastering powers and techniques no pureblood member of either clan could achieve.

Potential Ceiling

• If Tristan fully masters his hybrid nature, he could surpass both Meliodas (Demon King) and Elizabeth (Supreme Deity heir), making him one of the strongest beings in existence.

Percival’s Potential

Percival’s power lies not in his lineage (he’s human) but in his connection to Life Spirits, which gives him a unique edge:

1. Heroic Magic Rooted in Hope

• Hope Aura: His powers grow stronger as he inspires and protects those around him, making him potentially limitless in group scenarios.
• Adaptability: His imaginative constructs and golems, along with healing and resurrection abilities, allow him to respond creatively to virtually any situation.

2. Emotional Catalysts

• Dual Nature: While his hope-based powers grow with the optimism of himself and others, despair unlocks devastating abilities like Mummification.
• Emotional Amplification: The more hope he generates in others, the stronger he becomes, making his ceiling tied to the size of his following and the emotional stakes of a given conflict.

3. Unpredictable Magic Potential

• Life Spirit Connection: Life Spirits are ancient and mysterious beings with vast power. As Percival grows and learns more about his connection to them, he could uncover abilities that transcend traditional magic systems, potentially surpassing conventional magic users.
• Growth Curve: Unlike Tristan, whose powers are somewhat predefined by his lineage, Percival’s magic is highly versatile and has no clear limits, allowing for unpredictable development.

Potential Ceiling

• Percival could become a near-divine figure of hope and life, possibly mastering reality-altering magic through the Life Spirits, transcending mortal constraints.

Comparison of Potential

Factor	Tristan	Percival
Power Ceiling	Inherits the combined might of the Goddess and Demon clans, potentially surpassing both.	Grows stronger through inspiration and emotional stakes, with unpredictable limits.
Versatility	Strong, but grounded in the powers of light, dark, and physical combat.	Highly versatile, with constructs, healing, resurrection, and emotional amplifiers.
Growth Curve	Requires mastering two opposing forces (light and dark), which may be slow but immense.	Tied to emotional and external factors, allowing exponential growth in the right circumstances.
World Impact	Could become the strongest warrior, surpassing any combatant.	A symbol of hope and life, capable of reshaping battles by inspiring allies and changing outcomes.

Final Verdict: Percival Holds Greater Theoretical Potential

While Tristan has a higher inherent power ceiling due to his hybrid lineage and defined destructive capabilities, Percival’s powers have a more unpredictable, limitless nature tied to hope, imagination, and Life Spirits. If fully realized, Percival’s influence and powers could extend beyond combat, reshaping the world and inspiring others in ways Tristan cannot.


In essence:

• Tristan might become the ultimate warrior.
• Percival could transcend into a beacon of life, hope, and possibility.

 

[Yakkun]

This is pretty cool, too bad you limited the topic to only two out of the four knights.

 

[Tristan]

~~~~

Oh I know where its verdict came from

A symbol of hope and life, capable of reshaping battles by inspiring allies and changing outcomes.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 23, 2024, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2024 ---

This is pretty cool, too bad you limited the topic to only two out of the four knights.

With how versatile Gawain is, I guess she would top any comparison based on solid analysis. You can try it yourself and post the results in here.

 

[Demonspeed]

This is pretty cool, too bad you limited the topic to only two out of the four knights.

This is cool and all but in the end it's an A.I. If you read the text you can notice errors here and there. It's not like abilities are described perfectly either and we don't know everything about everyone.

 

[Yakkun]

This is cool and all but in the end it's an A.I. If you read the text you can notice errors here and there. It's not like abilities are described perfectly either and we don't know everything about everyone.

Obviously. But it is good fun regardless

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2024, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2024 ---

@Tristan did you repost this thread on the NNT Reddit? If not someone stole the topic from you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NanatsunoTaizai/s/2x7HjrgTSQ

 

[Redpercy]

So I asked ChatGPT this question:


And here's how it answered:



Then I asked Gemini 1.5 Pro the same question, and here's the answer it gave:


So, what do you think about this guys? Do you agree with their answers or not?

Nice idea but it seems like you're ignoring 2 important thing here

First, ChatGPT is never a reliable source for scientific topics. It may help you with simple questions and general historical topics, but it makes a lot of mistakes in scientific matters. Try to do scientific research using it and I guarantee you will fail 99%. That's why it is still being updated and developed.

Second and the most important thing : the abilities in nnt, like most works, are not identical to the scientific meaning that chtagpt will tell you.
The names of nnt abilities, attacks and modes have in several cases symbolic meanings that don't match any description that chatgpt will tell you

The rule for the demon king had nothing to do with the concept of the real rule that chatgpt or any scientific source will tell you and was about reversing magical damage and turning it into healing
The rule for SD had nothing to do with the concept of the real ruler that chatgpt or any scientific source will tell you and was about reversing physical damage and turning it into healing
King's magic is called disaster but it doesn't embody the literal meaning of the card that chatgpt will give you, not even close to it
Gawain's name is dawn even though her power is the magic of the sun

So instead of comparing the concept of death and annihilation that ChatGPT will give you, compare Tristan's annihilation and Percival's death.
And you will find a clear superiority for Percival.

Tristan's annihilation is just a powerful explosion capable of causing significant physical damage.
It does not erase any spirit or concept
We saw how Schwartz and his team healed even after the Testament beast (who is a fusion of them and his body is a combination of their bodies) Tristan's annihilation attack, so the attack does not seem carry any spiritual or conceptual damage and is limited to physical damage and is curable
The attack is also obvious and can be avoided with some speed and intelligence.

While Percival's death attack doesn't seem to be avoidable in any way so far and causes instant death.

~~~~

Are you sure you showed him the wiki? Because it says that Tristan's demon mode power rivals his father (which is absolute bullshit).
Although I don't trust the wiki because its writers may enter their opinions and even their incorrect agendas sometimes, I don't think anyone has reached the audacity and madness enough to write in the wiki that Demon Mode Tristan is strong enough to compete with Meliodas.
Without mentioning that ChatGPT never addressed the weaknesses or shortcomings

In general, as i said before, ChatGPT is completely wrong on many things.
It is only suitable for simple questions and is very bad and wrong in analysis.

 

[Demonspeed]

Are you sure you showed him the wiki? Because it says that Tristan's demon mode power rivals his father (which is absolute bullshit).
Although I don't trust the wiki because its writers may enter their opinions and even their incorrect agendas sometimes, I don't think anyone has reached the audacity and madness enough to write in the wiki that Demon Mode Tristan is strong enough to compete with Meliodas.
Without mentioning that ChatGPT never addressed the weaknesses or shortcomings

In general, as i said before, ChatGPT is completely wrong on many things.
It is only suitable for simple questions and is very bad and wrong in analysis.

I mostly copy pasted their abilities but as I said earlier we can notice mistakes here and there.

Tristan has yet to use Hellblaze for example.

This should have been Death VS Plague anyway. Tristan isn't the Knight of Annihilation.

 

[Tristan]

First, ChatGPT is never a reliable source for scientific topics. It may help you with simple questions and general historical topics, but it makes a lot of mistakes in scientific matters. Try to do scientific research using it and I guarantee you will fail 99%. That's why it is still being updated and developed.

I don't know exactly how this is any relevant to the topic discussed here! It's not as if ChatGPT is the one which told us first this identicalness between Tristan's Annihilation and the same phenomenon in Particle Physics!! It's was apparent to the majority from the get go! Skim through the reviews of ch. 123 on Reddit and Youtube and read commentaries to see it for yourself. A great number of people were drawing similarities between that and Gojo's Hollow purple.
And even in here, @Vortigern was the first one to notice that and he even made some really insightful assumptions regarding "Chaos" based on that!

Spoiler

Second and the most important thing : the abilities in nnt, like most works, are not identical to the scientific meaning that chtagpt will tell you.
The names of nnt abilities, attacks and modes have in several cases symbolic meanings that don't match any description that chatgpt will tell you

You can only say that in cases where there is a difference between the power/technique's name and its use / application. In Annihilation's case, it's already too late to even think about this, cuz we've already seen its application and it 100% matches Annihilation is Physics which inspired many more powers like Gojo's Hollow Purple, Truth-Seeking Ball's Onmyoton and its nullifying properties, etc.
Moreover, just so you know, the matching between Techniques' applications and their names in NnT is far greater than the cases where they mismatch!
Snatch - Full Counter - Full Size - Tornado - Ocean - Sun - Flash - Ark - Darkness - Infinity - Mix Venom - Telekinesis - Interrogator - Pyre - HellBlaze - Vision - Change - Hope - Love Bomb - Elemental Spirits - Monochrome - Link - Invasion, etc. ALL of these and many more match their application. So, it's futile to try to use very few exceptions as an argument to back up your nonsense.

So instead of comparing the concept of death and annihilation that ChatGPT will give you, compare Tristan's annihilation and Percival's death.

Yup and that's what I did!

And you will find a clear superiority for Percival.

Where is this superiority?? LS's life-drainage (the don't actually have "Death" per se, death is just a consequence of life-force drainage) can be recreated using some generic Demon techniques like Dark Snow which causes "instant death" and we've seen that with Hendrickson, and the Soul Extraction and Devouring. We've seen what Annihilation in its baby-stage did to the Testament Beast (Gawain's Passionate Sun couldn't leave a single scratch on it), it's bound to emerge as a De Facto "Existence Erasure" when Tristan draws near his peak. Ark is already established by Nakaba as capable of Erasing Souls, and the true nature of Demons was officially stated to be "Creature of Destruction" as their PoD can Destroy matter efficiently (the Destruction of Danafor by the Dark aura of Meliodas). When you mix Ark (Soul Destruction) + Darkness (Matter Destruction) what else can you name the result other than "Existence Erasure" aka Annihilation??

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2024, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2024 ---

We saw how Schwartz and his team healed even after the Testament beast (who is a fusion of them and his body is a combination of their bodies) Tristan's annihilation attack, so the attack does not seem carry any spiritual or conceptual damage and is limited to physical damage and is curable
The attack is also obvious and can be avoided with some speed and intelligence.

This is not an argument, cuz that's just how Nakaba sets the logic of getting rid of those Chaos monsters born from fusing other characters: the Death / Destruction of those Chaos monster does NOT entail the death of those used in its creation by the Chaos staff.
We've seen Lancelot opening a huge hole in the body of that Chaos monster created from fusing Fairies and Giants and he destroyed the Chaos staff right away. The Question: who healed them then?? You cannot answer that nor can anyone, since that's just how that Chaos staff gimmick works.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2024 ---

While Percival's death attack doesn't seem to be avoidable in any way so far and causes instant death.

I'll let Percival himself b**chslap you on this:

Spoiler

He "fully activated" Nadula Ghimala like he did against Worreldane, but it simply didn't work since Gareth has HOPE, a strong will to live. This is totally consistent with what Jigglyval explained in the previous Arc: LSs are spirits that use People's hope to bring Life and use People's Despair to bring Death. It depends mainly on People's emotions in the same fashion Sunshine depends on the locations of the Sun during the day to function.
Long story short, one can avoid LS's death so long as one possesses a strong will to live, whereas you can only escape Annihilation if you are faster than its user (i.e, Gawain's teleportation spell casting must be faster than Tristan's use of Annihilation for her to survive)

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2024 ---

Even the effects of Nadula Ghimala he used on Worreldane have been reversed seamlessly:

Spoiler

She wouldn't have survived like this had she received a direct hit from Annihilation.

Tristan has yet to use Hellblaze for example.

Nope, he already did in GoE against the Priest. He also used it when he infiltered Camelot with his platoon 2 years ago:

This should have been Death VS Plague anyway. Tristan isn't the Knight of Annihilation.

What's your definition of "Plague"?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2024 ---

@Tristan did you repost this thread on the NNT Reddit? If not someone stole the topic from you.

Yes! I did repost it there after seeing a fan made edit of that Skull Percy page putting Tristan in Gareth's place.

 

[Demonspeed]

Percival seems rather underestimated. Belief that he can't Nadura Ghimala non-Humans, that just having the will to live is enough to counter it. You really believe that he wouldn't have been able to kill Gareth with it if he really wanted to?

I don't remember Tristan using it in GoE but the manga pic does show it.

What's your definition of "Plague"?

~~~

Plague as a Calamity
In religious or mythological contexts, Plague often symbolizes widespread suffering, disease, or divine punishment. It is typically associated with one of the horsemen in the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, as described in the Book of Revelation in the Bible.

The Four Horsemen:

1. Conquest (or Pestilence/Plague): Often depicted as the rider of a white horse, this horseman is associated with the spread of conquest, war, or disease. Some interpretations specifically equate this rider with pestilence or plague.
2. War: The rider of the red horse represents conflict and bloodshed.
3. Famine: The black horse rider symbolizes scarcity and economic hardship.
4. Death: The pale (or green) horse's rider embodies death and the grave.

Plague's Role in the Four Calamities
"Plague" symbolizes not just physical illness but also widespread societal collapse caused by infectious diseases. Historically, plagues (like the Black Death) have led to profound demographic, economic, and cultural shifts, so its inclusion as a calamity highlights humanity's vulnerability to pandemics.

Symbolic Interpretation
Plague serves as a metaphor for:

• Judgment: Divine punishment for sins or transgressions.
• Fragility of Life: How quickly societies can fall to unseen forces.
• Change and Renewal: Often, apocalyptic depictions use plague as a prelude to transformation or rebirth.

~~~

Plague (Pestilence)

• Symbolism: Disease and suffering caused by widespread illness.
• Role: Plague represents the unchecked spread of physical and societal illness. It’s about how infectious diseases or moral decay erode societies, leading to despair and chaos.
• Depiction: Often associated with the white horse. This rider is sometimes interpreted as a conqueror spreading disease or a harbinger of divine punishment through sickness.
• Impact:
  • Historically tied to pandemics like the Black Death or smallpox.
  • Symbolizes instability brought on by biological crises that affect every level of human existence.

Death

• Symbolism: The inevitable end of life and the ultimate consequence of the other calamities.
• Role: Death encompasses all causes of mortality—whether by war, famine, or plague—and serves as a universal equalizer.
• Depiction: Associated with the pale (or green) horse, its rider is named Death, and Hades (the grave) follows him.
• Impact:
  • Represents the culmination of the devastation wrought by the other Horsemen.
  • In mythology and theology, Death is the final arbiter, bringing an end to life regardless of wealth, power, or status.

Comparison of Death and Plague

Aspect	Plague	Death
Nature	Disease and societal breakdown	The final cessation of life
Cause	Biological or moral corruption	Universal inevitability
Symbolic Focus	Suffering through illness	Finality and mortality
Scope	Affects populations selectively	Affects all living beings
Representation	White Horse (Pestilence/Conquest)	Pale Horse (Death)

How Plague and Death Interact

1. Plague as a Precursor:
   • Plague leads to mass suffering, weakening societies and paving the way for widespread mortality (Death).
   • Epidemics often result in famine (due to disrupted food supplies) and war (as nations collapse or fight over dwindling resources).
2. Death as the Inevitable Outcome:
   • Regardless of the initial cause—be it disease, starvation, or violence—Death follows as the final and inescapable conclusion.
   • In some interpretations, Death’s arrival marks the endgame, signifying the ultimate judgment.

Four Calamities: Unified Impact

• Conquest/Pestilence (White Horse): Introduces chaos, spreading illness or destabilizing power.
• War (Red Horse): Brings bloodshed and conflict, exacerbating suffering.
• Famine (Black Horse): Causes scarcity, starvation, and economic collapse.
• Death (Pale Horse): Culminates the destruction, claiming lives on a massive scale.

Each horseman operates in tandem with the others, representing a cyclical process of human suffering leading to apocalyptic devastation.

Key Takeaway
While Plague represents a specific calamity focused on the ravages of disease, Death transcends this, embodying the universal end that comes as a result of all the calamities. Their interplay highlights the fragility of human life and society, resonating with apocalyptic themes across history, religion, and culture.

 

[Redpercy]

I don't know exactly how this is any relevant to the topic discussed here! It's not as if ChatGPT is the one which told us first this identicalness between Tristan's Annihilation and the same phenomenon in Particle Physics!! It's was apparent to the majority from the get go! Skim through the reviews of ch. 123 on Reddit and Youtube and read commentaries to see it for yourself. A great number of people were drawing similarities between that and Gojo's Hollow purple.
And even in here, @Vortigern was the first one to notice that and he even made some really insightful assumptions regarding "Chaos" based on that!

Majority my feet
Do you think I don't participate in the reddit community or don't watch YouTube
Here is a link to the chapter 123 discussion on reddit. Show me where someone said these things you claim?
The only one who tried to talk(glaze) annihilation, is an account called Escanor-lion (which seems exactly like your account in reddit since he always writes in the same style as you about the same ideas of you at the same time that you say them here) and he received many down votes at that time because he started saying stupid things about how Tristan is better than Percival.
And are you really citing a theory that only you and another member agreed upon as a criterion for the validity of your point? Tell me you're not serious.

You can only say that in cases where there is a difference between the power/technique's name and its use / application. In Annihilation's case, it's already too late to even think about this, cuz we've already seen its application and it 100% matches Annihilation is Physics which inspired many more powers like Gojo's Hollow Purple, Truth-Seeking Ball's Onmyoton and its nullifying properties, etc.

It's funny that you cite the Hollow Purple again when the movement itself doesn't match the annihilation principle you promotes.
The Hollow Purple and Tristan's annihilation don't erase things from existence.

The simple explanation of what Hollow Purple is: a virtual mass created from colliding Blue & Red together (same virtual mass that Yuki imbues herself with)
Below is all that’s ever been described about Purple within the manga.
You can extrapolate that Purple is a very destructive technique, but anything else is headcanon

Same goes for Annihilation which is just a powerful explosion from combining POD and Ark, anything else is just your headcanon(glaze).

Gawain's Passionate Sun couldn't leave a single scratch on it

So you chose to ignore the fact that Gawain was not at her full power And barely regained some of its strength?

When you mix Ark (Soul Destruction) + Darkness (Matter Destruction) what else can you name the result other than "Existence Erasure" aka Annihilation??

The Ark only works effectively on demons
It works much less effectively on other races and we've never seen it affect the body or soul of anyone who isn't a demon before
(And Let Tristan's ark hit base Schwartz before glaze him for impossible things)

And although demons are creatures known for causing destruction, the rest of the clans are no less than them when it comes to the traditional destructive power of matter

This is not an argument, cuz that's just how Nakaba sets the logic of getting rid of those Chaos monsters born from fusing other characters: the Death / Destruction of those Chaos monster does NOT entail the death of those used in its creation by the Chaos staff

It would be nice if you didn't evade the main point.
You claim that the attack wipes out existence.
But we saw it work once and it didn't wipe out anything from existence.
So on what basis do you build your belief?
Since you claim that Tristan's attack erases existence, how did the Testament Beast continue to live even after receiving annihilation if it erase things from existence because only destroy some of the Covenant Beast's body?
You must have something more than just your personal interpretation of the concept of the name of the move to glaze it
Because according to the feats and what appeared, Tristan's attack does not have any powers that affect existence and it is only a high AP attack

I'll let Percival himself b**chslap you on this:

Spoiler

He "fully activated" Nadula Ghimala like he did against Worreldane, but it simply didn't work since Gareth has HOPE, a strong will to live. This is totally consistent with what Jigglyval explained in the previous Arc: LSs are spirits that use People's hope to bring Life and use People's Despair to bring Death. It depends mainly on People's emotions in the same fashion Sunshine depends on the locations of the Sun during the day to function.

Didn't work? With all due respect, do you have a reading problem?
All Percival said was that it wouldn't be very easy on someone who wanted to live.
He didn't said it wouldn't work
Garreth resisted it a little, but if Garreth's brother had delayed withdrawing and Percival had continued to apply it to him, Garreth would have died.

whereas you can only escape Annihilation if you are faster than its user (i.e, Gawain's teleportation spell casting must be faster than Tristan's use of Annihilation for her to survive)

And you've concluded this based on it destroying a Testament Beast and some praise from Gawain?
Destroying a Testament Beast doesn't even put the attack in the top 20 strongest attacks
Good luck finding better feats

Even the effects of Nadula Ghimala he used on Worreldane have been reversed seamlessly:

Spoiler

She wouldn't have survived like this had she received a direct hit from Annihilation

Worreldane survived Nadula Ghimala only because of the power of chaos
And it is audacious and delusional for you to think that the power of chaos will not heal hrr from an attack liké Annihilation that could not even finish the Testament beast.
Find better feats and arguments for the attack before you start glaze it to ridiculous point just based on your interpretation of its name.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2024, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2024 ---

 

[Tristan]

~~~

~~~

Good! Shouldn't this give you an idea that the concept of "Plague"— especially in a story with a Biblical and medieval background like NnT— is primarily understood to mean "Divine Retribution" and shouldn't therefore be narrowed down to the mere aspect of "illness", right?
Or else, you will have to explain how do the biblical "10 Plagues of Egypt" or "The Seven Plagues of Revelation" fit the definition of "illness" when they come in many forms such as [Turning blood into water, the death of 1st born child, Scorching Sun, Great Darkness, etc.]!!
...
My main question to you is: can't "Plague" in Tristan's case be just "Mass, devastating Destruction"?

This should have been Death VS Plague anyway. Tristan isn't the Knight of Annihilation.

By the same token, Gawain's title shouldn't be "the Master of the Sun", cuz she's "the Knight of Famine". Sun is NOT Famine, so ... let's just wait for her main power to appear; the power to kill people by making them hungry and have them Cannibalize each other

Do you think I don't participate in the reddit community or don't watch YouTube
Show me where someone said these things you claim?

'kay, how 'bout them apples?

Spoiler

Had enough yet?

The Hollow Purple and Tristan's annihilation don't erase things from existence.

I guess you're mixing up things here. "Existence Erasure" in its basic conception means reducing things to their sub-atomic level, in other words, the utter and complete conversion of Matter to Energy aka "Annihilation":

Contemplate on this process for a bit:
Particle + Anti-Particle (building blocks of Matter) = Collision => Annihilation => Release of Energy.

Isn't it the same thing that Beerus explains herein?

Oh wait, lemme guess: Akira Toriyama knows nothing and he's just trying to "glaze" destruction because he likes Beerus, right?

Now, Did Tristan's Annihilation truly released Energy when destroying things? Well, let's see for ourselves:

Spoiler

And you will find a clear superiority for Percival.

One Last Question: Which one seems more grave and devastating to you: Nadula Ghimala ... or ... THIS?

Spoiler

This is just Darkness ... by the way

 

[Redpercy]

kay, how 'bout them apples?

Spoiler

Had enough yet?

You claimed that the mainstream opinion on reddit and youtube agrees with your claim which is not true
I gave you a link to the chapter 123 discussion on reddit and it doesn't seem like anyone there is shares your opinion or interest

Then you looked at a lot of TikTok videos (seriously?) just to find some comment agreed with you in likening Tristan's attack to a hollow purple?

guess you're mixing up things here. "Existence Erasure" in its basic conception means reducing things to their sub-atomic level, in other words, the utter and complete conversion of Matter to Energy aka "Annihilation":

Contemplate on this process for a bit:
Particle + Anti-Particle (building blocks of Matter) = Collision => Annihilation => Release of Energy.

This is not the basic general definition of erasing existence, this is the definition in physics
And even in physics, matter cannot be created or erased completely, but only converted into other forms of energy or other matter (The principle of conservation of matter and energ)

But what you do not notice or avoid noticing is that the concept of the soul, which is considered basic in the world of nnt/7ds, is something that is not taken into account in physics
Therefore, the erasing of existence in physic term, which you are trying to prove that Tristan possesses by using manipulation of physical terms and projecting them without strong evidence of Tristan's ability, is limited only to physical erasure
So at best, it just a high physical AP attack

Oh wait, lemme guess: Akira Toriyama knows nothing and he's just trying to "glaze" destruction because he likes Beerus, right?

First of all, there is no such thing as a writer glaze a character

The writer is the creator of his world and he is the one who determines its rules
Only fans who "glaze" when they want to give a character more credit than he deserves without proper evidence (exp : you with Tristan)

Akira himself did not explicitly say that Beerus erases existence
The conclusion that Hakai erases existence was due to the existence of several statements and evidence :
1- In the picture you sent yourself, Beerus says that Hakai turns something into nothing
This indicates that Hakai is absolute physical destruction (at least according to Dragon Ball's power scales)
2- Sidra said that those exposed to Hakai will not go to the otherworld (After life) and that their existence will be erased

Spoiler

3- Weiss stated that even ghosts will not survive Hakai.

Spoiler

Therefore, we conclude that Hakai is also spiritual destruction (at least according to Dragon Ball's power scales)
(There are several other evidences.)

And since existence in Dragon Ball (and many fantasy worlds) is soul + body, Dragon Ball fans had a good argument to say that Hakai is "erasing existence"


Now let's talk about Tristan's "Annihilation"
attack:
- Does it destroy matter completely? It doesn't seem like it, his best feat is making a few holes in the Testament monster
And I can mention many attacks from other nnt/4koa characters that would have destroyed the Testament beast completly and easily
- Does it destroy the soul? Absolutely not
The attack does not affect the soul even a little
The soul of the Testament beast is not harmed even a little

So it would be nice if you could find much better feats and narrative and a better argument than your misunderstanding of the process of annihilation in physics before you claim something like this again.

Now, Did Tristan's Annihilation truly released Energy when destroying things? Well, let's see for ourselves:

Spoiler

undefined

I'll explain it simply, although what I wrote above is enough to explain it

Annihilation in physics occurs when a particle and its antiparticle (such as an electron and a positron) interact with each other. When this interaction occurs, the particle and antiparticle disappear as matter particles and their energy is completely converted into radiation energy, usually producing gamma rays (high-energy photons) to maintain the laws of conservation of energy and momentum.
Tristan's annihilation seems similar
You can think of the POD and Ark as the particle and antiparticle
Their interaction produces energy that translates into a powerful explosion
That's all.

in short :
Annihilation in physics means the annihilation of the particle and antiparticle, which produces energy
In 4koa, annihilation symbolizes the annihilation of the POD and Ark to produce energy in the form of an explosion

There is nothing about erasing the existence of the target, it is just something you wish Tristan would have and it does not seem like he will

One Last Question: Which one seems more grave and devastating to you: Nadula Ghimala ... or ... THIS?

Spoiler

undefined

Nadula Gimala
What's amazing about causing damage to Cusack's body who already very damaged and tired?

 

[Tristan]

Then you looked at a lot of TikTok videos (seriously?) just to find some comment agreed with you in likening Tristan's attack to a hollow purple?

Wow, I didn’t realize you’d run out of ideas so badly that you’d resort to such weak*** arguments! And no, there aren’t any TikTok videos involved—it’s literally ONE short clip, not even a full video. HERE:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uuy42k4nS4o
Just because you’re salty that a certain character got powers that outshine your favorite doesn’t mean you need to go into full denial mode. Chill out, man!

Does it destroy matter completely? It doesn't seem like it, his best feat is making a few holes in the Testament monster

I think you are mixing up "matter" and "body" here. Destroying matter completely has to do with ignoring the durability and the destruction of the subatomic particles of the targeted areas, not necessarily destroying the whole body. [Tristan can achieve that when he collides Omega Ark with a gigantic Dark Orb for example]

The attack does not affect the soul even a little

Not even a little? Wow .. I'm impressed by you keen eye! Can you please tell us how you would have known if the Beast's soul was hurt a little? I mean how would it look like or be portrayed in a manga page?

The soul of the Testament beast is not harmed even a little

Oh, so you can diagnose the souls of manga characters now? That’s an impressive skill—do you charge for consultations, or is this a hobby?

There is nothing about erasing the existence of the target, it is just something you wish Tristan would have and it does not seem like he will

Sorry to crush you bubble of hopes again! Nakaba did already confirm that Ark can actually Destroy body and soul!! Now by simple logic, Ark can destroy the souls, but Ark + Darkness can't ... is this what you're saying?

Nadula Gimala

Excuse me, Nadula what??

Spoiler

 

[Redpercy]

Wow, I didn’t realize you’d run out of ideas so badly that you’d resort to such weak*** arguments! And no, there aren’t any TikTok videos involved—it’s literally ONE short clip, not even a full video. HERE:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uuy42k4nS4o

What are you babbling about man?
You initially claimed that most people in the agree with you in the chapter 123 discussion on reddit and YouTube
But how majority supports you if you need to search in comments of one of the videos, if not the only one who care about this (and it was only because it was included in his regular review of the week's chapter) to get soem little comments supporting your opinion? (After proving that no majority supports your silly beliefs on reddit or anywhere)

And all this for what? To prove that some other than you think Tristan's attack is similar to Gojo's attack

Just because you’re salty that a certain character got powers that outshine your favorite doesn’t mean you need to go into full denial mode. Chill out, man!

If this is a lie you are trying to convince yourself of, then you are free to do so.
No matter how much you try to interpret the name annihilation or exaggerate it, it will remain just the ability to create explosives by combining POD and Ark
and it does not rise to the level of comparison with Death hax
Your attempts to compare the MC to Tristan who is at best considered a tetartagonist will not make Tristan seem better or more important no matter how hard you try
You can stay with your desperate, miserable, delusional theories, and I will stay with the facts based on feats and narrative.

I think you are mixing up "matter" and "body" here. Destroying matter completely has to do with ignoring the durability and the destruction of the subatomic particles of the targeted areas, not necessarily destroying the whole body. [Tristan can achieve that when he collides Omega Ark with a gigantic Dark Orb for example]

It's amazing how you can talk about so much nonsense that is just your imagination and based on your dreamy theories without any real evidence.

Not even a little? Wow .. I'm impressed by you keen eye! Can you please tell us how you would have known if the Beast's soul was hurt a little? I mean how would it look like or be portrayed in a manga page?

Oh, so you can diagnose the souls of manga characters now? That’s an impressive skill—do you charge for consultations, or is this a hobby?

It is your duty to prove your claim, not
Unless you prove that the attack has spiritual damage, it does not
Otherwise anyone who wants to glaze his favorite character as stupidly as you are doing now can come and claim that his favorite character's attacks have spiritual damage without evidence

If there was something like soul damage it would have been mentioned or even highlighted slightly
especially since we know how much damage soul attacks can do to its victime
but all that happened was that the Testament beast suffered some physical damage and was able to continue fine and did not seem any different

Sorry to crush you bubble of hopes again! Nakaba did already confirm that Ark can actually Destroy body and soul!! Now by simple logic, Ark can destroy the souls, but Ark + Darkness can't ... is this what you're saying?

Sorry to crush you bubble of hopes again! Nakaba did already stated that this basically for demons and is much less effective against other races.
Not to mention that Tristan's Ark powers have proven that they cannot do anything even base Schwartz.
So Can you wake up to reality.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2024, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2024 ---

Excuse me, Nadula what??

Spoiler

undefined

Are you serious? What's so impressive about destroying Fraudrin's bodies? I can name dozens of characters who can easily destroy Fraudrin's body?

 

[Maelstrom Omega]

No ways there's a Tristan vs Percy debate going on right now when the abilities of both are unclear.

- Nadula Gimala as an insta-kill ability is not clearly described as such. As far as we know, it is possible to survive it by being semi-human and we can resist it by having a strong will.
And from a plot pov Percy has many other attacks/spells mentioned that he needs to show their effect. I'm talking about Vaz Ziggra and Zarura N'du(I guess every higher spirit has its own ability).
He also claimed to have remembered many ways to use his powers so again it's absurd to sum him up as Nadula Gimala.

- Annihilation has never really shown itself to be able to erase anything, has it? Theoretically, since demons can manipulate souls and the Higher Goddesses Ark can also erase souls, it should be possible for Annihilation to erase anything, even the soul BUT Tristan is not the MC. There is no way Nakaba would give him such an ability and even if he were to have it, all top tiers will have resistance to existence erasure. It's quite sad but that's how it is.
And like with Percy it's not fair to reduce Tristan to an incomprehensible ability. I expect several other combinations from him, not just annihilation. I expect poD x Ark attacks such as MelxEli's God eater against DK or amazing stuff like that Mael attack that destroyed Sariel and Tarmiel even though I highly doubt that will happen. Rather than always a 50-50 combination, I hope there will also be 75-25, 30-70, 20-80, etc... combinations for more effects. Of course I would like him to get there by himself by testing lots of things and not with Nova.
For me, Tristan has the greatest potential for evolution among the 4koa but given the direction of the story, it will not be explored.

And please stop comparing Annihilation to Gojo's Purple. It's absolutely not the same.
Purple was never stated to be an erasure of existence was it? It's just a ball of energy more powerful than normal. Sukuna tanked it, Uraume survived. If it were existence erasure, there would be nothing left of Sukuna.

I was seeing more and more hateful posts on Reddit calling Tristan overrated because of Annihilation. It's absurd that people are so offended by one person's theories.

 

[Demonspeed]

No ways there's a Tristan vs Percy debate going on right now when the abilities of both are unclear.

- Nadula Gimala as an insta-kill ability is not clearly described as such. As far as we know, it is possible to survive it by being semi-human and we can resist it by having a strong will.
And from a plot pov Percy has many other attacks/spells mentioned that he needs to show their effect. I'm talking about Vaz Ziggra and Zarura N'du(I guess every higher spirit has its own ability).
He also claimed to have remembered many ways to use his powers so again it's absurd to sum him up as Nadula Gimala.

I'd say Nadura Gimala is very flexible. This definitely works on Non-Humans since the Behemoth was doing this to Demons, but he can regulate the power output. Demons are also confirmed to have a great amount of life force in general. Against Gareth, he didn't drain life force but he showed him illusions of death. He should definitely have more in store. He uses it too casually for it to be his best move. We don't know what Vaz Ziggra is but Zarura N'du is apparently Jigglyval's name.

- Annihilation has never really shown itself to be able to erase anything, has it? Theoretically, since demons can manipulate souls and the Higher Goddesses Ark can also erase souls, it should be possible for Annihilation to erase anything, even the soul BUT Tristan is not the MC. There is no way Nakaba would give him such an ability and even if he were to have it, all top tiers will have resistance to existence erasure. It's quite sad but that's how it is.
And like with Percy it's not fair to reduce Tristan to an incomprehensible ability. I expect several other combinations from him, not just annihilation. I expect poD x Ark attacks such as MelxEli's God eater against DK or amazing stuff like that Mael attack that destroyed Sariel and Tarmiel even though I highly doubt that will happen. Rather than always a 50-50 combination, I hope there will also be 75-25, 30-70, 20-80, etc... combinations for more effects. Of course I would like him to get there by himself by testing lots of things and not with Nova.
For me, Tristan has the greatest potential for evolution among the 4koa but given the direction of the story, it will not be explored.

And please stop comparing Annihilation to Gojo's Purple. It's absolutely not the same.
Purple was never stated to be an erasure of existence was it? It's just a ball of energy more powerful than normal. Sukuna tanked it, Uraume survived. If it were existence erasure, there would be nothing left of Sukuna.

I was seeing more and more hateful posts on Reddit calling Tristan overrated because of Annihilation. It's absurd that people are so offended by one person's theories.

Don't see the issue with Annihilation being able to erase matter. It's named Annihilation and as Vortigern said before it's similar to matter vs antimatter clash. There are many characters with powers able to deal with this(healing, etc).

 

[Maelstrom Omega]

I'd say Nadura Gimala is very flexible. This definitely works on Non-Humans since the Behemoth was doing this to Demons, but he can regulate the power output. Demons are also confirmed to have a great amount of life force in general. Against Gareth, he didn't drain life force but he showed him illusions of death. He should definitely have more in store. He uses it too casually for it to be his best move. We don't know what Vaz Ziggra is but Zarura N'du is apparently Jigglyval's name.

We don't know if this is the same technique as the Behemoth's. As I said Percy has several other techniques in stock so it's a bit absurd to summarize him in one ability. And again he has already claimed that Worreldane surviving it was not surprising due to her having a non-human half.

Don't see the issue with Annihilation being able to erase matter. It's named Annihilation and as Vortigern said before it's similar to matter vs antimatter clash. There are many characters with powers able to deal with this(healing, etc).

I meant an full erasure of existence, that is to say, erasing even the soul. This kind of thing can't be handled with a standard healing.